Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?
Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.
What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?
I don't think it's going to be a dh bike, but We Are One confirmed in their ask us anything on Pinkbike that they're going to release their bike next year.
Hi guys,
Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike...
Hi guys,
Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?
Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.
What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?
I’m guessing transition will be coming out with a mullet soon hopefully a tr11 mullet
but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
Hi guys,
Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike...
Hi guys,
Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?
Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.
What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up
https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992
but...
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up
but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
I do think there is still a limitation in the frame / suspension design.
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up
https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992
but...
Can we just talk about this for a moment? What can the big guys argue against gearbox after seeing this? Like sign me up
but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
I do think there is still a limitation in the frame / suspension design.
The only real limitation as far as I can tell is you can’t use the same frame design for a bike if you are also gonna spec derailleurs on your budget model. Though that’s much less an issue on dh bikes and I think they may be the first to convert to gearboxes as the standard rather than just a few small brands and diy guys
I don't think the current gearbox scenery is the solution. Pinion looks nice, but requires the use of a gripshift (though I'm told it's not an issue, still...). More importantly, it has an output shaft concentric to the input shaft (chainring spins around the 'BB'. That means it's designed to fit into the current design of bikes, it doesn't cater to high pivots particularly well.
Idler gears are what is used as a solution, and while I haven't ridden one yet (so sad...), I don't think it is the correct solution. Just by the way the cain is loaded, they are bound to be noisy (as all the reviewers say they are) and could cause unwanted chain wear as well. The main chainring just needs to be moved higher up, for which a gearbox is the ideal solution.
That means we need a paradigm shift from Sram/Shimano (realistically Shimano, as I don't see Sram pulling the industry the gearbox way on their own) and at the same time a paradigm shift of bike design towards high pivots.
High pivots are the solution, as with increasing wheel sizes the axle paths have become more and more forward to achieve the correct antisquat and more importantly pedal kickback values (because you start above the BB with the rear axle, the 'swingarm' rotates forwards, while it does backwards and mostly upwards if you start below the BB, as with a 26" bike). That and squeezing 29" wheels under the seat at full squish is also an issue (case in point, bent seat tubes), which is negated with the use of higher pivots (rearward axle path), which is also something that wasn't present with 26" bikes.
I don't think the current gearbox scenery is the solution. Pinion looks nice, but requires the use of a gripshift (though I'm told it's not an...
I don't think the current gearbox scenery is the solution. Pinion looks nice, but requires the use of a gripshift (though I'm told it's not an issue, still...). More importantly, it has an output shaft concentric to the input shaft (chainring spins around the 'BB'. That means it's designed to fit into the current design of bikes, it doesn't cater to high pivots particularly well.
Idler gears are what is used as a solution, and while I haven't ridden one yet (so sad...), I don't think it is the correct solution. Just by the way the cain is loaded, they are bound to be noisy (as all the reviewers say they are) and could cause unwanted chain wear as well. The main chainring just needs to be moved higher up, for which a gearbox is the ideal solution.
That means we need a paradigm shift from Sram/Shimano (realistically Shimano, as I don't see Sram pulling the industry the gearbox way on their own) and at the same time a paradigm shift of bike design towards high pivots.
High pivots are the solution, as with increasing wheel sizes the axle paths have become more and more forward to achieve the correct antisquat and more importantly pedal kickback values (because you start above the BB with the rear axle, the 'swingarm' rotates forwards, while it does backwards and mostly upwards if you start below the BB, as with a 26" bike). That and squeezing 29" wheels under the seat at full squish is also an issue (case in point, bent seat tubes), which is negated with the use of higher pivots (rearward axle path), which is also something that wasn't present with 26" bikes.
Effiegear seams like a better fit for DH, or a better fit for the high pivot placement.
What happened about that nukeproof giga that was supposed to be released on the 9th as it's already the 10th and they haven't even been teasing a release on social media
Effiegear seams like a better fit for DH, or a better fit for the high pivot placement.
Indeed, but there is no free lunch when it comes to gearboxes. Pinion has the aforementioned 'issues' (gripshift and the concentric output), which the Effigear does not have as an issue. But it does have other issues.
While shifting on the Pinion requires releasing the pressure on pedals, it requires so just because you aren't able to pull the mechanism to another gear. Supposedly they shift the gearboxes under full power on the end of line check in their production, but they do so with a powerful motor, that has the force needed to move the shifting mechanism. With Effigear the mechanism is shaped in such a way that it gets locked into the current gear under power. Shifting to a faster gear is not a problem, as the new gear pulls the mechanism 'out' of the old one, but shifting to a slower gear is an issue as the current gear locks the mechanism. To release the current gear, the mechanism needs to be released.
With the original design of a concentric pivot and a rear hub with no freehub the speed of the bike did this as you let up on the pedals - the movement of the bike rotated the gear inside the gearbox away from the mechanism (just like the hub needs to rotate faster than the cassette for the freehub to disengage). This means that if you use a freehub on the rear hub, you need to backpedal to shift to a slower gear. Originally, with concentric pivots, this wasn't needed, but that means running only single pivot designs. Cavaliere now has a horst link design with a freehub rear hub, so you apparently need to backpedal to shift.
All this info comes directly from Effigear, the locked mechanism info is old from before the horst link Cavaliere bikes (I was asking because the possibility of such a design was interesting), but they recently told me the shifting mechanism has not been changed, so I'm basing these claims on those two informations that they have given me.
What happened about that nukeproof giga that was supposed to be released on the 9th as it's already the 10th and they haven't even been teasing...
What happened about that nukeproof giga that was supposed to be released on the 9th as it's already the 10th and they haven't even been teasing a release on social media
☝🏿🙄😓...idk, I am waiting it for two days already. Guess they didn't manage to source enough components to launch it now(launch full production)..so, they are probably put all of their bets on the mega...probably ....or they are just launching it tomorrow, what do I know..🤷🏿♂️
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/10/10160/s1200_Screenshot_from_2020_12_10_18_27_15.jpg[/img]
And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.
And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Mistake maybe? Seems like an odd way to do it. Who knows!
@kchomper Yes, that's the new Shorty--I think those photos have been discussed previously.
The tire was supposed to be off embargo 2+ months ago.
Assumption is that Maxxis production swamped because of bike boom and has to meet OEM customer demands first and foremost so has pushed all production to tires that OEMs need. The new Shortys are more of an Aftermarket product and haven't been released so I'm assuming they have been put on the back burner for now.
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/10/10160/s1200_Screenshot_from_2020_12_10_18_27_15.jpg[/img]
And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.
And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Isn’t that from 2014? Has a bunch of EWS stickers on it
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/10/10160/s1200_Screenshot_from_2020_12_10_18_27_15.jpg[/img]
And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
Santa Cruz website now. So I guess nomad is coming very soon.
interesting bike/enduro/all mountain from norco in magnus mansons story:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/10163/s1200_pic1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/10164/s1200_pic2.jpg[/img]
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/12/11/10162/s1200_pic3.jpg[/img]
interesting bike/enduro/all mountain from norco in magnus mansons story:
Let’s talk about DH bikes. Which brands do you think will release an update of their bike or even release a new DH bike?
Here are my thoughts:
- Trek: an update of the Session is long overdue in my view. The geometry is outdated and they do not offer a version with mixed wheel sizes. Someone in this forum was talking about a high-pivot speed machine...let’s see. The Slash has been updated already this year, next up the Session?
- Commencal: I heard rumors about an update of their mullet DH bike the Supreme DH 29-27. Maybe a shorter wheelbase/chainstay?
- YT: no mixed wheel size option...bit surprised to see them falling behind the curve. The Tues has been updated in 2018, so maybe we will get an update next year or in 2022. They will provide first release a new version of the Capra.
- Intense: will they release the new DH bike which is currently ridden by the factory team next year already?
- Specialized, Canyon, Scott, Mondraker and Cube all have revised their bikes only recently, so I do not expect them to release an update in this category.
What are your thoughts on this topic? Do you have any insights?
https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Shredmaster-2020,53572/setup,42992
but it limits suspension design.. Nevermind
but its heavy... wait 39lbs?..... Nevermind
It will ruin the aesthetic... er.... Nevermind
We just don't want to commit to it? Bingo
https://wheelbased.com/2020/12/09/multi-body-vehicle-suspension-linkage…
Idler gears are what is used as a solution, and while I haven't ridden one yet (so sad...), I don't think it is the correct solution. Just by the way the cain is loaded, they are bound to be noisy (as all the reviewers say they are) and could cause unwanted chain wear as well. The main chainring just needs to be moved higher up, for which a gearbox is the ideal solution.
That means we need a paradigm shift from Sram/Shimano (realistically Shimano, as I don't see Sram pulling the industry the gearbox way on their own) and at the same time a paradigm shift of bike design towards high pivots.
High pivots are the solution, as with increasing wheel sizes the axle paths have become more and more forward to achieve the correct antisquat and more importantly pedal kickback values (because you start above the BB with the rear axle, the 'swingarm' rotates forwards, while it does backwards and mostly upwards if you start below the BB, as with a 26" bike). That and squeezing 29" wheels under the seat at full squish is also an issue (case in point, bent seat tubes), which is negated with the use of higher pivots (rearward axle path), which is also something that wasn't present with 26" bikes.
must be close to release
While shifting on the Pinion requires releasing the pressure on pedals, it requires so just because you aren't able to pull the mechanism to another gear. Supposedly they shift the gearboxes under full power on the end of line check in their production, but they do so with a powerful motor, that has the force needed to move the shifting mechanism. With Effigear the mechanism is shaped in such a way that it gets locked into the current gear under power. Shifting to a faster gear is not a problem, as the new gear pulls the mechanism 'out' of the old one, but shifting to a slower gear is an issue as the current gear locks the mechanism. To release the current gear, the mechanism needs to be released.
With the original design of a concentric pivot and a rear hub with no freehub the speed of the bike did this as you let up on the pedals - the movement of the bike rotated the gear inside the gearbox away from the mechanism (just like the hub needs to rotate faster than the cassette for the freehub to disengage). This means that if you use a freehub on the rear hub, you need to backpedal to shift to a slower gear. Originally, with concentric pivots, this wasn't needed, but that means running only single pivot designs. Cavaliere now has a horst link design with a freehub rear hub, so you apparently need to backpedal to shift.
All this info comes directly from Effigear, the locked mechanism info is old from before the horst link Cavaliere bikes (I was asking because the possibility of such a design was interesting), but they recently told me the shifting mechanism has not been changed, so I'm basing these claims on those two informations that they have given me.
And the filename is "my21_hero_nomad3.jpg".
The tire was supposed to be off embargo 2+ months ago.
Assumption is that Maxxis production swamped because of bike boom and has to meet OEM customer demands first and foremost so has pushed all production to tires that OEMs need. The new Shortys are more of an Aftermarket product and haven't been released so I'm assuming they have been put on the back burner for now.
But they've put this photo on their website for a reason )))
It just means, that the fifth one coming soon