MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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SharpieMTB
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SharpieMTB 3/17/2020 9:36am
3/17/2020 9:36am
HeatproofGenie wrote:
$299 Euro makes it a somewhat pricy experiment but I am interested. That said I don't feel like I ever really notice pedal kickback while riding...
$299 Euro makes it a somewhat pricy experiment but I am interested. That said I don't feel like I ever really notice pedal kickback while riding however that could just be result of being used to it and not knowing better.

I haven't experimented with chain-less descents but it would be easy to do. Just bring some pliers and a ziplock bag to pack the chain for each descent.
Find a good trail that doesn't require pedalling (or not much pedalling) and a bunch of runs with and without. It's also good training and makes you learn to look for free speed more often with pumping and etc.
w4s
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w4s 3/17/2020 12:05pm
3/17/2020 12:05pm
Wasn't it the atherton's that experimented with removing a cog from the cassette as a place for the chain to sit to mimic the characteristics of running chainless? I can't find any pictures on the interwebz.
Big Bird
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Big Bird 3/17/2020 1:21pm
3/17/2020 1:21pm
I thought the Chase Mod was just for street steeze.
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matmattmatthew
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matmattmatthew 3/17/2020 1:31pm
3/17/2020 1:31pm
I think Barel and Canyon were working on a remote activated device that would disengage the hub from the freehub body and giving the "chainless" performance. Guess it never materialized...
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Primoz
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Primoz 3/17/2020 1:35pm
3/17/2020 1:35pm
Canyon was working on that, but doesn't look it came to anything. And yeah, Athertons were missing the second to last or third to last cog to create a freewheeler. Must have sucked to fsck up and start pedalling in that gear :D

As for kickback, we need high pivots. You get the antisquat you need for a bike to work with none of the pedal kickback since you could actually do a concentric idler pivot and still have the bike not bob Smile
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Big Bird
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Big Bird 3/17/2020 1:35pm
3/17/2020 1:35pm
So what we really need is a new free hub body that free hubs while coasting and has instant engagement when the cranks turn. Get on it Sram and Shimano and all you other aspiring actors.
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Primoz
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Primoz 3/17/2020 1:39pm
3/17/2020 1:39pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2020 1:40pm
Kind of something like that already existed, but i forgot by who. I know there was a coil in the freehub mechanism with the open end of it catching onto tabs of a thin plate (it was stamped so it had ribs on one side). When you turned the pedals, you rotated the coil with the freehub, caught a rib of the plate, rotated that and that in turn, via cams, sprung the freehub pawls out and into the ratchet ring.

Does anyone remember who made that hub? I know "exactly" what it looks like but I can't remember by who it was.
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sspomer
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sspomer 3/17/2020 1:40pm
3/17/2020 1:40pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2020 1:41pm
would this concept do anything? front freewheel system. i remember a kid in my neighborhood had a 10-speed with this. if nothing else you can shift w/o pedaling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwpnxh_Vxpk
Primoz
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Primoz 3/17/2020 1:52pm
3/17/2020 1:52pm Edited Date/Time 3/17/2020 1:54pm
It was the WTB Laserdisc!!

Thanks to WTB and their maintenance manuals still published on their site!

While it didn't do the disconnect we were talking about, a similar concept MIGHT be used to achieve it. I.e. only engage the pawls when the freehub is moving. There is a question of engagement speed then though...
Primoz
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Primoz 3/17/2020 1:59pm
3/17/2020 1:59pm
sspomer wrote:
would this concept do anything? front freewheel system. i remember a kid in my neighborhood had a 10-speed with this. if nothing else you can shift...
would this concept do anything? front freewheel system. i remember a kid in my neighborhood had a 10-speed with this. if nothing else you can shift w/o pedaling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwpnxh_Vxpk
No, it wouldn't. The kickback is produced by the rear axle moving away from the BB, pulling on the chain. If you pull back on the chain on the FFS, the sprockets and crank will still rotate back. Kinda like the cassette turns back when you rotate your back wheel backwards.

On the same note, my posts above about the WTB freehub have the same issue more or less.

You need to keep the BB to rear axle length constant or have a complete disconnect on the chain with something else being the defining factor as to when it is engaged (your finger engaging the mechanism) for it to work. It might be possible with a certain clutch design, but invariably, you'll get into a situation where the pickup is too slow or doesn't happen at all. Next stop, the dentist.

So, too much of a hassle for not enough benefit if you ask me... My rambling above about the WTB system would produce a quiet hub (Scylence alternative), but that's about it.
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Wamp Rat
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Wamp Rat 3/17/2020 3:14pm
3/17/2020 3:14pm
They only make it for singlespeed but Profile's Z-coaster would work a treat for suspension performance I reckon.
The beauty of it is that when you can't hear the pawls clicking it's in coaster mode and when you can hear them it's instant engagement, so no nasty surprises.
https://www.profileracing.com/product/mtb-zcoaster-hub/
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mitch160
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mitch160 3/18/2020 5:55am
3/18/2020 5:55am
Another new rockshox fork?



1
brash
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brash 3/20/2020 8:22pm
3/20/2020 8:22pm
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline.

Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base of the left leg.

I quizzed him about it, said secret squirrel stuff and commended me on my coil conversion. Wish I snuck a sneaky pic now.
Pavel_Repák 3/21/2020 2:23am
3/21/2020 2:23am
brash wrote:
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline. Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base...
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline.

Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base of the left leg.

I quizzed him about it, said secret squirrel stuff and commended me on my coil conversion. Wish I snuck a sneaky pic now.
What to do when there is no more room in the fork for the negative chamber? Just take some volume from outside the fork! In 10 years we'll be riding with paintball air tanks attached to our bikes.
1
MXBREWSK
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MXBREWSK 3/21/2020 6:42am
3/21/2020 6:42am
brash wrote:
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline. Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base...
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline.

Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base of the left leg.

I quizzed him about it, said secret squirrel stuff and commended me on my coil conversion. Wish I snuck a sneaky pic now.
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers.
Primoz
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Primoz 3/21/2020 8:27am
3/21/2020 8:27am
Soooooooo... DRCV?
JohSch
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JohSch 3/21/2020 8:33am
3/21/2020 8:33am
2020 Lyrik was released in April 2019, so it´s about time... :D
Primoz
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Primoz 3/21/2020 8:53am
3/21/2020 8:53am
It would probably have been released in Sea Otter had it not been canceled...
Big Bird
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Big Bird 3/21/2020 9:22am
3/21/2020 9:22am
MXBREWSK wrote:
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/21/9365/s1200_16_KX450H_Cut_SFF_Air_TAC02_Y15_R.high.jpg[/img]
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers.
So negative and positive chambers plus air bottom out?
Pedal4life
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Pedal4life 3/21/2020 9:44am
3/21/2020 9:44am


How about some of these on you forks I thought of these when my mind went huge bolbous appendages the black & white photo is from 1976 it wasn't the photo I was looking for but its definitely the appendages that I had in mind photo is from Saddleback park definitely 1 of my favorite places back in the 1970's
Wamp Rat
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Wamp Rat 3/21/2020 2:33pm
3/21/2020 2:33pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2020 2:35pm
Surely fork companies could make room for that extra stuff higher up by extending the stanchions up to around the height of the top of the head tube; then you could even connect those two extensions with an extra crown or something and even maybe mount the stem to it.
9
baronKanon 3/21/2020 2:37pm
3/21/2020 2:37pm
Wamp Rat wrote:
Surely fork companies could make room for that extra stuff higher up by extending the stanchions up to around the height of the top of the...
Surely fork companies could make room for that extra stuff higher up by extending the stanchions up to around the height of the top of the head tube; then you could even connect those two extensions with an extra crown or something and even maybe mount the stem to it.
Genius! 😂
Primoz
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Primoz 3/21/2020 2:47pm
3/21/2020 2:47pm
Think of all the weight...
brash
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brash 3/21/2020 5:41pm
3/21/2020 5:41pm
brash wrote:
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline. Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base...
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline.

Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base of the left leg.

I quizzed him about it, said secret squirrel stuff and commended me on my coil conversion. Wish I snuck a sneaky pic now.
MXBREWSK wrote:
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/21/9365/s1200_16_KX450H_Cut_SFF_Air_TAC02_Y15_R.high.jpg[/img]
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers.
Exactly like that, I'd seen it on KXF motocross bikes a few years ago. This was on the bag of the leg however.
MXBREWSK
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MXBREWSK 3/21/2020 9:18pm
3/21/2020 9:18pm
MXBREWSK wrote:
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/21/9365/s1200_16_KX450H_Cut_SFF_Air_TAC02_Y15_R.high.jpg[/img]
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers.
Big Bird wrote:
So negative and positive chambers plus air bottom out?
Big Bird, I have not explored this fork before from my moto days but found the explanation from Dirt Rider for you. If I am correct I remember seeing that one of the MTB downhiller's had used this system on some experimental fork, but I dont have the info concerning it.

https://www.dirtrider.com/features/showa-separate-function-triple-chamb…
1
MXBREWSK
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MXBREWSK 3/21/2020 9:21pm
3/21/2020 9:21pm
brash wrote:
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline. Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base...
Steve from Vorsprung was testing a very modified Lyrik when I spotted him in Queenstown at Skyline.

Looked like a giant air reservoir/piggyback at the base of the left leg.

I quizzed him about it, said secret squirrel stuff and commended me on my coil conversion. Wish I snuck a sneaky pic now.
MXBREWSK wrote:
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers. [img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/03/21/9365/s1200_16_KX450H_Cut_SFF_Air_TAC02_Y15_R.high.jpg[/img]
Maybe the concept that Showa was using 4-5 years ago on their motocross bikes, triple air chambers.
brash wrote:
Exactly like that, I'd seen it on KXF motocross bikes a few years ago. This was on the bag of the leg however.
Brash here is the link explaining the triple air chamber Showa fork. https://www.dirtrider.com/features/showa-separate-function-triple-chamb…
1
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