Round one of the Coil Shock Shootout: five rear shocks tested on a short section of mostly downhill trail. The shocks have all been tuned for the same bike, and are using the same spring. All shocks have been setup prior to being tested.
A Freelap system will record the time for each run, and a subjective measure of perceived speed or "feel" will be noted before looking at the actual time.
The Test Rig
2023 Specialized Enduro running an Intend Edge fork, and O-Chain device. I feel the kinematics of the Enduro make it a good test rig with the fairly progressive and linear rate. It is also very familiar with this being the 3rd one I have run since 2019.
The Shocks
-Marzocchi Bomber CR with a Fluid Focus piston kit and tune (self installed)
-Marzocchi Bomber CR modified and tuned by Avalanche Suspension
-RockShox Super Deluxe Select+ (Specialized Trail Tune)
-Fox DHX (tuned by me and with a Fluid Focus 45a bottom out bumper)
-Vorsprung Telum
All shocks are 65mm stroke except the RockShox which is the stock 60mm stroke the bike came with. Bottom out bumpers vary from 16.7mm on the Avy Bomber, to 20mm on the Telum. Both the Super Deluxe and the Telum have adjustable HBO. The spring is a 475# SAR.
The Track
A short one that has a little bit of everything and is great for testing. Flat turns, rough and rocky sections, berms, and high speed with low traction. It does not have anything difficult and is easy to push right up to the limit. Times are just over 2 minutes typically.
Excellent work, can't wait to see the results.
Looking forward to the results! I've got a Telum on my new Madonna I've built up over the winter, but haven't been able to ride it yet.
This is awesome! You've got a great baseline to compare against with the stock RS Super Deluxe coil with the factory tune. What's the travel on your Enduro with a 65mm stroke shock?
Track looks brutal. Love it.
Looks like an interesting test for sure! I know there are tons of brands out there for suspension nowadays, so the options are pretty much endless... That said I was pretty blown away by the performance of a Cane Creek Double Barrel on my first downhill bike. They liscenced the tech from Ohlins, so maybe an Ohlins or Cane Creek test in the future could really make this a super thorough test of what's out there.
Frame travel should be around 180mm or so with the stroke at 65mm, but won't know for sure until the data acquisition is setup. That will be part of round 2 where the plan is to take the two fastest shocks and try to figure out why.
Are they using more travel easier, riding higher in the travel, resisting bottom out better, recovering quicker, or something else?
The Vorsprung shock is somewhat similar to a CC Double Barrel in that they are both twin tube designs like Ohlins pioneered. The Telum has the most interesting design out of the bunch with a solid main piston and very unique means of adjusting the compression and rebound damping curves. It wins "showroom feel" as well, I have never felt a shock so supple and smooth.
Perhaps a twin tube shootout with Cane Creek, Ohlins, Fox DHX2, and Telum?
We're just getting started, big plans for the future. 👍
As a CC Coil IL Shock fan who is also Telum-curious I would love to see this!
This is RAD! Can we get a fork shootout next? Intend-curious.
Sick setup! Do you have specific attributes you are looking for on your personal tunes? Should be really interesting seeing the differences between the Marzocchi Bombers
Well this is awesome! I'm super interested to hear your feedback on this one.
I want to hear that the Telum is at least 80% performance of the Avy with less than 20% of the drama.
Great idea.
It would be ideal if you could get your hands on the Vivid Ultimate since the Rockshox shock you have is discontinued and they made some pretty sizeable differences to the damping in the Vivid vs. Super Deluxe. Also, the Super Delux you have is 60mm stroke whereas the others are 65mm (as you pointed out).
This is AMAZING - actually did something a bit similar - have cycled through an EXT Storia, Avy tuned Bomber CR, FF tuned Bomber CR (haven't tried yet), and Shockcraft tuned RS SDU on my Canfield Lithium. Can't wait to read about your findings!
One other thing - have you considered different spring weights? I've found I've needed to change spring rates to achieve the same sag on different shocks (e.g. Marz vs. RS) - different IFP pressures, etc. Just something to consider...
I generally tune my suspension to try and find as much traction as possible in rough and loose terrain (especially for longer travel bikes). This typically results in a very active feel with just enough support to pump transitions and hold up in berms. A HBO circuit or a captured bumper system is used for bottom out support over firm compression damping. For pedaling performance, I prefer an active feel as well over a system with lots of low speed compression damping and minimal pedal bob.
Anything preloaded (digressive) is usually modified in favor of more linear damping curve. Supple, compliant, and predictable throughout the travel.
The two Bombers feel quite different just bouncing in the driveway, will be interesting to see how they compare on trail.
Funny you say that as the SD actually feels pretty bad.
There is a noticeable knock when changing direction and it does not feel very smooth at all. Almost notchy as it goes through the travel.
Got some weather today, and it's likely more storms will be rolling through for the next few weeks. This means the test track is shut down for a while.
This does allow more time to use the data acquisition equipment out in the desert while waiting for the local trails to dry out. I plan to go through each shock and make sure static and dynamic sag for front/rear are as close as possible for each setup before doing the times runs.
To be continued....
What lube is in it? I used to have this issue when using Fox fluids in RS suspension. It took me a hot minute to figure out why things sometimes feel "notchy" indeed. Ever since I have switched to Maxima, Torco, or whatever RS recommends at the time I haven't seen that issue.
It is bone stock RockShox, so I guess Maxima?
Will check the IFP pressure as I have seen them low from the factory. Something about the fill process and valve core being loose.
If it's feeling notchy... I believe one of the things they fixed with the new Vivid Ultimate Coil is the lighter check valve to make it more fluttery. They also increased oil flow so it's generally a lot more active/more responsive. As previously stated, the Super Deluxe is discontinued because of being outdated, so it is not really a great idea to include it in the test as Rockshox's offering. Especially given that it's not even the same stroke as the rest of the shocks in the test.
I think the point of including the Rockshox is because that's what came stock - he's trying to compare custom tuned to what came stock. I, for one, support this decision. There are a number of tuners who will tune the latest RS stuff, so he could consider adding that...
I get the 'it came with it stock', but this isn't a review of the frame/bike. It's reviewing shocks... So, it doesn't matter what came on the bike originally. Especially considering it's discontinued and a different stroke. Fine to include some notes on it, but it's not worth directly comparing it to the others, for the reasons I've stated already. Maybe someone can loan him a Vivid Ultimate Coil w/65mm stroke and use it for the Rockshox product.
I also had a bad luck with previous versions of the SDL. Bought a bike with SDL 2019 and it was simply bad, no matter the spring rate. Bought the NSR racing kit and it was better but much less LSR gave it an uncontrolled feeling but I must admit my best times were on this setup. Older generations od SDL had a heavily digressive rebound tunes, latter RS offered linear tunes and hotdog pistons... Changed to Kitsuma AIR but this just reminded me I do not like air (in fairness Kitsuma is too heavily damped for me and it lacks suppleness, maybe because the damping) but I really appreciated twintube design and it's ability to separate rebound and compression . Recently bought DHX2 and it's great, controlled and plush. Suppose that Ohlins is also good and Tellum looks absolutely great.
I disagree.
Just because it's old doesn't make it invalid. And having a data point of a shorter travel may highlight some positives or negatives of long stroking bikes.
Some old shocks are definitely better than they're newer models, and potentially the original tune that specialized specd could be very good.
I have no issue with keeping it in the test as a data point/another shock to look at. But I'm suggesting that there should be a Vivid Ultimate Coil in the test as the 'representative' from Rockshox since it's their coil shock that you can currently buy new. Rockshox is either #1 or #2 in MTB coil shock sales and the shock in this test is discontinued/doesn't represent the latest tech (AND is an odd stroke size vs. all the others). Keep the Super Deluxe 60mm in the test as a data point, but also include the current coil offering from Rockshox.
To add: Examples, me, as a person who's in the market for a coil shock, I don't really care how the Super Deluxe performs against these other shocks because I'm not going to buy one since it's discontinued and by all accounts/other reviews is poorer performing than the Vivid Ultimate Coil. So, while it would be an interesting datapoint since it's what came stock, it's not really in the 'shoot out' for someone buying a new shock.
Serious question - is there mountain bike riding in Illinois and is there reason to have a coil shock for the riding there. I am asking not trolling.
Great question. There actually is some good MTBing in IL. Not 'real' MOUNTAIN biking. But there are some great trail systems if you like XC riding. Definitely 100-120mm air shock and fast tires terrain. I don't live there, which is why I need to be #OnCoil.
The reason for including the SD shock is simply because it is also tuned for the Enduro. I know the product managers at Specialized can ride, and the SD shock represents the tune (for that specific shock) they felt worked the best for the frame. I am curious to see how it compares to the other shocks, which are also tuned specifically for the frame.
This is a "coil shock shootout", but also a big exercise in data collection with the end goal being to try and understand why one shock is faster (or better) than another for a specific use. Starting with timed runs, then data acquisition, and eventually onto a shock dyno.
Just the beginning. 😉
" I know the product managers at Specialized can ride, and the SD shock represents the tune (for that specific shock) they felt worked the best for the frame."
Careful with that one. Just because they can ride doesn't mean the bike is best specced for them. Realistically, ego aside, the guys working in the industry developing bikes are an order of magnitude better riders than people buying the majority of their bikes. Identifying that is hard, and it took me years to understand why @dougal_sc loves the Debonair C1 while I think it's the worst spring RS had made in a decade. Different terrain, different people..the real job for them managers is finding something that will work for a strong rider yet not be completely unrideable for a beginner. A pro will have a custom tune, but anyone from buying their first bike to a double black rider, from 60kg to 120kg will often end up on the same tune..and so on.
I'm the end, the people in charge at bike companies I've worked at have not used stock suspension. They just ride much harder than most customers.
Interested in how this shakes out. I had the same bike and ran the stock SuperDeluxe air shock, a DVO Jade X, Fox X2, and an Avy tuned Bomber CR. Avalanche was my favorite, after Craig changed the rebound tune to a poppy/playful one. DVO was the worst, SD wasn’t far ahead. X2 was pretty good but not very durable.
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