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is more expensive stuff worth it ?

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4/12/2020 9:53 AM

Hello, I want to ask is more expensive stuff worth it?

I know high end frames, shocks, forks etc. are worth the price, usually. I´m talking about drivetrains, rims and stuff what is more keen to destroying.

Let me explain. I read and watched a lot of reviews saying NX groupsets is working great, SLX groupsets bank for the buck, but these particular sets last me maybe month? Bent cages, poor shifting(when it is new it is totaly usable but over little time it gets worse and worse), total malfunction of shifter, snaped chain, jockey wheels fall of (:D), and I've seen even litte more expensive stuff, which is considered solid (GX,XT), broken, bent etc. My XT's clutch survived only for 2 months it. I bent rims in 2 weeks, I bought new ones (they were cheap, like 30€, very low end) and they couldn hold on for 1 run. My current SLX 12s mech is bent like crazy, I mean I can shape it to every direction it is like molding clay, it works but I had to manualy bent it to a shape when it shifts.

I'm not heavy dude, I'm 64kg, I'd would say my riding style is pretty light and clean, but I'm not easy on bike I ride fast, rough stuff and I¨m not saving myself or bike i just want go fast.

My question is, if more expensive stuff like x01/xtr or even mix of gx/x01 xt/xtr worth the price? I'm skeptical about it becouse if I buy x01 shifter and rear mech and It will last few weeks whats the point, right. But if its stronger than cheaper counter patrs and it can hold on wild ride, few rock strikers, wrong line choices I'm wiling to pay for more expensive stuff. Same goes for rims, is it worth it to buy expenvise rims, will they survive full season? I'm on roval rims now, they seems pretty good so far, but already few good hits and rear wheel is litte off.

What is your opinion guys, should I stick with cheaper stuff and change it after I broke it or maybe buy expensive stuff and hopfuly better stuff will last me whole season. Cheers

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4/12/2020 10:41 AM

I've not really had any problems with any parts of the GX drivetrains and they've taken some serious hits. However I do think a good quality rim is really important. Aluminium differs greatly in strength and other mechanical properties from different types of alloys.
Rims should (in my opinion) be one of the last places to save money on. I've broken 5 rims the last 3 seasons, all of whom came specced stock from the manufacturers, but I have a set of ex511's that are laced to hope pro 4's that are 3 seasons in and still going strong.

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4/12/2020 11:34 AM

There is a saying that applies to most every part on a bike you can buy, "Cheap, Light or Strong, pick two." That said, I personally don't worry about getting the "high end" drivetrain stuff. As far as I can tell, you only lose weight when you go up in price, but you don't gain performance or durability, and similar to you I have broken a number of derailleurs.

Rims are a bit of a different story. Generally, as you go up in price, you gain strength and lose weight. I’ve run wheels from Gravity (I think that is what the brand was called) that bent beyond repair the first ride. And I’ve had rims from Stan’s and Spank that took everything I threw at them and rarely needed slight truing. And a few years ago (2014 I think) Gwin blew our minds with a flat tire race run where his DT Swiss 471 rim held up extremely well despite Gwin still charging. While you don’t need to fork out top dollar for some carbon job to get strong rims (though some of them are reportedly very good), you do need to fork out for the higher priced aluminum options if you want your rims to last (also set tire pressure high enough that you rarely if ever bottom out the tire on the rim.).

A few last thoughts, all modern drivetrains use a cable to pull the derailleur into position when you push the corresponding lever. These cables, no matter how much money you spend, will stretch out and cause your shifting to suffer. There are barrel adjusters on both the shifter and derailleur that you can twist to take up the slack and regain good shifting. Once they are out as far as they will go and you still don’t have enough tension, it’s time to buy a new cable.

When I was breaking a lot of rear derailleurs it wasn’t because of crashes or cheap parts. It would happen when I bottomed out. Turns out my bike needed more chain links (longer chain), and then to have the chain properly tensioned I needed a medium length cage derailleur instead of the short cage ones I had been buying. This may be the reason you are breaking so much drivetrain stuff. Do a search on Youtube to see if you are using the correct procedure to set the chain length for your bike (rear suspension bikes experience “chain stay growth”, and there is a way to find out how long your bike needs the chain to be so you don’t break stuff when you use full travel.)

Hope this all helps!

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4/12/2020 12:30 PM

taldfind wrote:

There is a saying that applies to most every part on a bike you can buy, "Cheap, Light or Strong, pick two." That said, I personally don't worry about getting the "high end" drivetrain stuff. As far as I can tell, you only lose weight when you go up in price, but you don't gain performance or durability, and similar to you I have broken a number of derailleurs.

Rims are a bit of a different story. Generally, as you go up in price, you gain strength and lose weight. I’ve run wheels from Gravity (I think that is what the brand was called) that bent beyond repair the first ride. And I’ve had rims from Stan’s and Spank that took everything I threw at them and rarely needed slight truing. And a few years ago (2014 I think) Gwin blew our minds with a flat tire race run where his DT Swiss 471 rim held up extremely well despite Gwin still charging. While you don’t need to fork out top dollar for some carbon job to get strong rims (though some of them are reportedly very good), you do need to fork out for the higher priced aluminum options if you want your rims to last (also set tire pressure high enough that you rarely if ever bottom out the tire on the rim.).

A few last thoughts, all modern drivetrains use a cable to pull the derailleur into position when you push the corresponding lever. These cables, no matter how much money you spend, will stretch out and cause your shifting to suffer. There are barrel adjusters on both the shifter and derailleur that you can twist to take up the slack and regain good shifting. Once they are out as far as they will go and you still don’t have enough tension, it’s time to buy a new cable.

When I was breaking a lot of rear derailleurs it wasn’t because of crashes or cheap parts. It would happen when I bottomed out. Turns out my bike needed more chain links (longer chain), and then to have the chain properly tensioned I needed a medium length cage derailleur instead of the short cage ones I had been buying. This may be the reason you are breaking so much drivetrain stuff. Do a search on Youtube to see if you are using the correct procedure to set the chain length for your bike (rear suspension bikes experience “chain stay growth”, and there is a way to find out how long your bike needs the chain to be so you don’t break stuff when you use full travel.)

Hope this all helps!

well, thank you for your opinion. But I dont get your pick two thing. I mean there is no component which is cheap and strong. I dont care about weight, but NX and SLX stuff is anything but strong, and its cheap, so? And cheap and light doesnt even exist so I dont get your point sorry.

And I wont run high pressure just because I hit the rim while riding. Anything above 27 psi is basicly unridable for my weight, and even 27 psi which I run now is high just because I have to run ligth tyres while waiting for michelin shipment.

And last thing, I do bike check after every ride, so everthing is in place and tight, so no my chain is not long or my cable worn out or anything like that, but thanks for nice tip anyway.

I just want to know if anyone who went for top tier components see some diference in durability. I'm just tired of riding my bike like it should be riden( it's mountain bike after all) and have to deal with destroying my stuff while riding like any other person. I know I ride a lot when but ig you pay so much money for bike or componenet it should last a while, even if it is cheaper stuff. Perosnaly I have no idea how somone can run NX or SLX drivetrain and it last them year or more. I can imagine ridiing this stuff on some entry level bike and ride fireroads etc.. but god it has no chance in terain I ride.

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4/12/2020 1:01 PM

taldfind wrote:

There is a saying that applies to most every part on a bike you can buy, "Cheap, Light or Strong, pick two." That said, I personally don't worry about getting the "high end" drivetrain stuff. As far as I can tell, you only lose weight when you go up in price, but you don't gain performance or durability, and similar to you I have broken a number of derailleurs.

Rims are a bit of a different story. Generally, as you go up in price, you gain strength and lose weight. I’ve run wheels from Gravity (I think that is what the brand was called) that bent beyond repair the first ride. And I’ve had rims from Stan’s and Spank that took everything I threw at them and rarely needed slight truing. And a few years ago (2014 I think) Gwin blew our minds with a flat tire race run where his DT Swiss 471 rim held up extremely well despite Gwin still charging. While you don’t need to fork out top dollar for some carbon job to get strong rims (though some of them are reportedly very good), you do need to fork out for the higher priced aluminum options if you want your rims to last (also set tire pressure high enough that you rarely if ever bottom out the tire on the rim.).

A few last thoughts, all modern drivetrains use a cable to pull the derailleur into position when you push the corresponding lever. These cables, no matter how much money you spend, will stretch out and cause your shifting to suffer. There are barrel adjusters on both the shifter and derailleur that you can twist to take up the slack and regain good shifting. Once they are out as far as they will go and you still don’t have enough tension, it’s time to buy a new cable.

When I was breaking a lot of rear derailleurs it wasn’t because of crashes or cheap parts. It would happen when I bottomed out. Turns out my bike needed more chain links (longer chain), and then to have the chain properly tensioned I needed a medium length cage derailleur instead of the short cage ones I had been buying. This may be the reason you are breaking so much drivetrain stuff. Do a search on Youtube to see if you are using the correct procedure to set the chain length for your bike (rear suspension bikes experience “chain stay growth”, and there is a way to find out how long your bike needs the chain to be so you don’t break stuff when you use full travel.)

Hope this all helps!

jaro.kopec wrote:

well, thank you for your opinion. But I dont get your pick two thing. I mean there is no component which is cheap and strong. I dont care about weight, but NX and SLX stuff is anything but strong, and its cheap, so? And cheap and light doesnt even exist so I dont get your point sorry.

And I wont run high pressure just because I hit the rim while riding. Anything above 27 psi is basicly unridable for my weight, and even 27 psi which I run now is high just because I have to run ligth tyres while waiting for michelin shipment.

And last thing, I do bike check after every ride, so everthing is in place and tight, so no my chain is not long or my cable worn out or anything like that, but thanks for nice tip anyway.

I just want to know if anyone who went for top tier components see some diference in durability. I'm just tired of riding my bike like it should be riden( it's mountain bike after all) and have to deal with destroying my stuff while riding like any other person. I know I ride a lot when but ig you pay so much money for bike or componenet it should last a while, even if it is cheaper stuff. Perosnaly I have no idea how somone can run NX or SLX drivetrain and it last them year or more. I can imagine ridiing this stuff on some entry level bike and ride fireroads etc.. but god it has no chance in terain I ride.

Shimano ZEE (FR): Cheap and Strong

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4/12/2020 7:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/12/2020 8:00 PM

jaro.kopec wrote:

well, thank you for your opinion. But I dont get your pick two thing. I mean there is no component which is cheap and strong. I dont care about weight, but NX and SLX stuff is anything but strong, and its cheap, so? And cheap and light doesnt even exist so I dont get your point sorry.

And I wont run high pressure just because I hit the rim while riding. Anything above 27 psi is basicly unridable for my weight, and even 27 psi which I run now is high just because I have to run ligth tyres while waiting for michelin shipment.

And last thing, I do bike check after every ride, so everthing is in place and tight, so no my chain is not long or my cable worn out or anything like that, but thanks for nice tip anyway.

I just want to know if anyone who went for top tier components see some diference in durability. I'm just tired of riding my bike like it should be riden( it's mountain bike after all) and have to deal with destroying my stuff while riding like any other person. I know I ride a lot when but ig you pay so much money for bike or componenet it should last a while, even if it is cheaper stuff. Perosnaly I have no idea how somone can run NX or SLX drivetrain and it last them year or more. I can imagine ridiing this stuff on some entry level bike and ride fireroads etc.. but god it has no chance in terain I ride.

Sounds like some tires with a proper casing or tire inserts would help you out.

And better line choices?! Haha. Few components are designed for direct rock strikes.

Mid-tier products are the best bang for your buck, offering 90% of the performance of the high-end stuff for less $$$. Lower end stuff is heavier, less precise, and often less durable like you're discovering.

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4/12/2020 8:11 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/12/2020 8:43 PM

As people said above get a pair of DT Swiss EX471 or EX511 depending on the width you want, they are really strong. DT Swiss - Enduro Another thing that's really great about them is that they'll stay true and the spokes will almost never come loose due to the washers and thread locking spoke nipples used with the rims. Here's Gwin's run if you're interested








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4/12/2020 9:20 PM

Photo
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4/12/2020 10:22 PM

I actually ran ex471 last year and they where pretty solid, but they were used before and only changed last minute before race so they were already litte off but seems very strong even they werent straight and havent issue with them since i put them on bike, I will give them another shot probably they are looking good, thanks for tip.

And about tires, I always run heavy dh casing tires, always, but for now I'm stuck with stock tires which are on my new bike. The new downill michelin tires are on the way but what I've seen on interenet everybody is unhappy and waiting long time for theirs michelins aswell.

So far it seems like mid priced stuff like gx and xt is way to go for me. The low end is really not worth it I guess, atleast for me as a rider who is serious with his riding

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4/12/2020 11:08 PM

If your ruining derailleur's and rims regularly I'd probably be looking at line choice not parts, I have been running XT drivetrain for 5 years in anywhere from squamish and whistler trails to bike park bashing and never replaced parts for anything apart from incorrect installation (forgot to tighten cranks) and general wear. Im not a slow rider but if you choose poor lines it will cost you $$$

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4/12/2020 11:54 PM

I recently built up my custom Bronson V3 and wanted to do a full on custom build...so I did.
Planned a trip to Finale Ligure and the first day went pretty well, second day I got a little off line and that cost me my new XTR 12 speed derailleur and 7 spokes (Industry Nine Enduro 305 with Hydra Hubs)....
Luckily I had spares and were able to fix the damage, after 1.5 hours I was back on track. Learned my lesson the hard way.
Downgraded my drivetrain to XT/SLX and wheels to the Industry Nine 101 with J Spokes - which are available almost everywhere.
Having the expensive stuff is great, til something goes wrong....and seeing that new XTR Mech flying through the air really hurt my feelings.
So far no troubles yet, and here in Switzerland the trails can get pretty rough and the components are holding up.
Running DH tires as well (Assegai / Dissector)
I always recommend spend a little more cash on the suspension parts and contact points....tires too, but as far as drivetrain goes, the lower end (just taking about Shimano here)..SLX does the job just fine.

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4/13/2020 1:03 AM

taldfind wrote:

There is a saying that applies to most every part on a bike you can buy, "Cheap, Light or Strong, pick two." That said, I personally don't worry about getting the "high end" drivetrain stuff. As far as I can tell, you only lose weight when you go up in price, but you don't gain performance or durability, and similar to you I have broken a number of derailleurs.

Rims are a bit of a different story. Generally, as you go up in price, you gain strength and lose weight. I’ve run wheels from Gravity (I think that is what the brand was called) that bent beyond repair the first ride. And I’ve had rims from Stan’s and Spank that took everything I threw at them and rarely needed slight truing. And a few years ago (2014 I think) Gwin blew our minds with a flat tire race run where his DT Swiss 471 rim held up extremely well despite Gwin still charging. While you don’t need to fork out top dollar for some carbon job to get strong rims (though some of them are reportedly very good), you do need to fork out for the higher priced aluminum options if you want your rims to last (also set tire pressure high enough that you rarely if ever bottom out the tire on the rim.).

A few last thoughts, all modern drivetrains use a cable to pull the derailleur into position when you push the corresponding lever. These cables, no matter how much money you spend, will stretch out and cause your shifting to suffer. There are barrel adjusters on both the shifter and derailleur that you can twist to take up the slack and regain good shifting. Once they are out as far as they will go and you still don’t have enough tension, it’s time to buy a new cable.

When I was breaking a lot of rear derailleurs it wasn’t because of crashes or cheap parts. It would happen when I bottomed out. Turns out my bike needed more chain links (longer chain), and then to have the chain properly tensioned I needed a medium length cage derailleur instead of the short cage ones I had been buying. This may be the reason you are breaking so much drivetrain stuff. Do a search on Youtube to see if you are using the correct procedure to set the chain length for your bike (rear suspension bikes experience “chain stay growth”, and there is a way to find out how long your bike needs the chain to be so you don’t break stuff when you use full travel.)

Hope this all helps!

jaro.kopec wrote:

well, thank you for your opinion. But I dont get your pick two thing. I mean there is no component which is cheap and strong. I dont care about weight, but NX and SLX stuff is anything but strong, and its cheap, so? And cheap and light doesnt even exist so I dont get your point sorry.

And I wont run high pressure just because I hit the rim while riding. Anything above 27 psi is basicly unridable for my weight, and even 27 psi which I run now is high just because I have to run ligth tyres while waiting for michelin shipment.

And last thing, I do bike check after every ride, so everthing is in place and tight, so no my chain is not long or my cable worn out or anything like that, but thanks for nice tip anyway.

I just want to know if anyone who went for top tier components see some diference in durability. I'm just tired of riding my bike like it should be riden( it's mountain bike after all) and have to deal with destroying my stuff while riding like any other person. I know I ride a lot when but ig you pay so much money for bike or componenet it should last a while, even if it is cheaper stuff. Perosnaly I have no idea how somone can run NX or SLX drivetrain and it last them year or more. I can imagine ridiing this stuff on some entry level bike and ride fireroads etc.. but god it has no chance in terain I ride.

Learn to pick a line. Learn to ride light. Don't just plow into everything. Put some CushCore in your wheels. wink

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4/13/2020 3:05 AM

well, as I mentioned in first post, I ride pretty light and clean I'm not muscular beast so I can't just charge everything and I have to pick my lines, of course there are few moments when I smash and huck to flat but in day to day riding I ride pretty smooth.

I get your point guys about being gentle on bike, but that's another topic to discuss. I came here to find out if anyone experienced diference between low-mid-high end stuff in durability.

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4/13/2020 3:55 AM

I forgot to mention this in my post, but if you’re building your own wheels you might be running to low spoke tension. Rims dont last long if thats the case, or if the spoke tension is uneven. Spoke choice is also very important.
You should’nt need to ride «carefully» with a well built set of wheel imo.

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4/13/2020 6:11 AM

To answer your title question: not beyond mid-range GX/XT. Similarly for full bikes, I always go for the lowest or second lowest build and upgrade little by little.

Regarding your actual points which are with regards to destroying rims and derailleurs. I used to destroy all my equipment in record time, the biggest thing that changed this was switching to clipped in pedals. I ride just as fast as before, but I barely ever have mechanicals.

Rims can be a bit of a gamble: I had somewhat high end Mavic rims that needed changing every other year, cheapish Spank rims that exploded in a bike park quite fast, low end chinese carbon rims that cracked from a snakebite hit that didnt even puncture my tyre. Best rim I ever got was a Roval (i.e. specialized) carbon rim, still have it as a spare 5 years later with tons of races and bike park runs. I run huck norris or Nukeproof ARD in my rear rims now, and my replacement chinese carbon rim hasnt had any issue.

For the derailleur: bigger wheels and smaller derailleurs = huge difference. I ran a 29er with an 11-36 10speed derailleur for years and almost completely stopped hitting stuff with it. I took off my stock eagle setup on my latest bike and "downgraded" to a 10-42 11speed derailleur for the same reason. Id you are running 26/27.5 rear, consider a smaller range transmission.

Regarding "cheap, strong, light, choose 2": Ever since I bought an e-bike I have completely given up on saving weight on my regular bike. Heavy bikes ride much better, this has saved me so much cash and time worrying about parts.

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4/13/2020 8:22 AM

I think the key is to splurge in the areas where you get the most gains.

For example, if you're on a limited budget for drivetrain, the shifter has the largest impact on shifting performance, and the cassette is the piece where the most weight can be saved (if you care).

For chains, my strategy has been to buy the cheapest chain I can get and replace it at 0.5% wear, since I hadn't found that expensive chains lasted much longer. But for 12 speed, X01 Eagle chains cost about double a GX chain, but last well over twice as long, The durability is impressive.

For alloy wheels, my experience is that all alloy rims break eventually. Good hubs that are serviceable and don't have a reputation for exploding is a good place to spend money (e.g. Hope, DT 350), and then I look to use 32 j-bend spokes with a readily-available rim so that I have the option to reuse spokes when I rebuild. Most of the alloy rims cost about the same.

For some components (e.g. Shimano SLX vs. XT brakes, Shimano M530 vs XT pedals), you don't really get much more, if anything. for the extra money.

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4/14/2020 10:03 AM

I think yes. These are the necessary parts of your bike.

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4/14/2020 1:24 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2020 3:16 PM

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of expensive things that make no difference whatsoever to performance on an enduro/trail bike, or might even make your bike ride worse:

-Kashima
-Spending money on carbon/ti parts to save weight
-upgrading to a carbon frame
-alloy spoke nipples
-hub engagement (unless you're riding trials or in super tricky climbing scenarios)
-carbon cranks, bars, stem
-XTR and most XT parts
-XX1 and XO1
-Carbon rims (actually rides worse)
-Light tires
-electronic shifting
-bladed spokes
-expensive chains
-ceramic bearings
-expensive saddles (ti rails, carbon anything, etc)

I've owned and ridden 90% of the items on that list and can personally certify they're a waste of money.

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4/14/2020 3:17 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/14/2020 9:53 PM

Another thought on OP's OP:

The two biggest differences between drivetrain groupsets are materials and finishing. Fancy finishes don't make components stronger, but materials certainly do. There's a lot more metal and a lot less plastic in an expensive derailleur than a cheap one. Ditto for shifters. Similarly there are different grades of aluminum or steel used , fewer stamped parts and more forged or machined parts, more removable bolts instead of rivets and pins, etc. So while there isn't a big drop in performance going from XX1 to GX, there's a pretty big drop from GX to SX.

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4/15/2020 7:44 AM

@teamrobot - dialed list except for hub engagement. if you're going from a bottom-of-the-line hub to something nicer, it's noticeable, if you have to pedal for speed or momentum. i'm not saying the upgrade has to be a $500 rear hub, but the difference between a super cheap rear hub found on a $1-$2k bike and a "good" rear hub with better engagement is legit. on budget rear hubs, i've had my foot blow off pedals (flat pedals, not clips) as i upshifted while pedaling on travsery portions of trail. the slack was just too great and the violent thud of engagement happened way later than expected. if you're just fireroad climbing and descending, then lack of engagement doesn't seem like a big deal.

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4/15/2020 11:06 AM
Edited Date/Time: 4/15/2020 11:07 AM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of expensive things that make no difference whatsoever to performance on an enduro/trail bike, or might even make your bike ride worse:

-Kashima
-Spending money on carbon/ti parts to save weight
-upgrading to a carbon frame
-alloy spoke nipples
-hub engagement (unless you're riding trials or in super tricky climbing scenarios)
-carbon cranks, bars, stem
-XTR and most XT parts
-XX1 and XO1
-Carbon rims (actually rides worse)
-Light tires
-electronic shifting
-bladed spokes
-expensive chains
-ceramic bearings
-expensive saddles (ti rails, carbon anything, etc)

I've owned and ridden 90% of the items on that list and can personally certify they're a waste of money.

Nailed it!

I'd add fancy jockey wheels!

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4/15/2020 11:47 AM

solid points. I guess after reading all post from you guys, I will go for mid range gx/xt stuff and I will buy some proper wheels for sure once I destroy my current ones.

Fun fuct: Today I bent SLX mech to the point of no return, It is not possible anymore to bent it to the shape where it shifts good. Didnt hit anything just normal riding :D I will change it for my older NX mech and finish that too. I say 3 weeks and I'm buying gx or xt mech.

If anyone work for some bike company and you want to get your stuff proper tested, hit me up, if it survives one month on my bike it is really good

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4/15/2020 12:00 PM

You are going to get a lot of different responses here (but who cares what someone else thinks about your money and how you choose to spend it).

It all comes down to this.....

Are you satisfied/happy with the money spent? Yes - it was probably worth it.

Are you satisfied/happy with the money spent? No - it was probably not worth it.

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4/15/2020 1:09 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/15/2020 1:15 PM

sspomer wrote:

@teamrobot - dialed list except for hub engagement. if you're going from a bottom-of-the-line hub to something nicer, it's noticeable, if you have to pedal for speed or momentum. i'm not saying the upgrade has to be a $500 rear hub, but the difference between a super cheap rear hub found on a $1-$2k bike and a "good" rear hub with better engagement is legit. on budget rear hubs, i've had my foot blow off pedals (flat pedals, not clips) as i upshifted while pedaling on travsery portions of trail. the slack was just too great and the violent thud of engagement happened way later than expected. if you're just fireroad climbing and descending, then lack of engagement doesn't seem like a big deal.

Everybody's different, but I notice a difference going from a really cheap, low-engagement hub to something with 36 to 44 points of engagement (like a Hope Pro 4 or DT 350 with 36t star ratchet). It is most noticeable on technical, climbs, where a really low-engagement hub can result in missing the timing of an important pedal stroke to get up something.

But above 36ish points of engagement, I personally don't notice much of a difference.

After having a few freehub mechanisms blow up on me of various brands, I think it's worth spending a bit more on a rear hub with a good reputation for not blowing up, and that is serviceable if it does explode and doesn't end up in the garbage and requiring a new wheel build. Once again, Hope and DT are good choices there.

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4/15/2020 1:43 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/15/2020 1:49 PM

jaro.kopec wrote:

solid points. I guess after reading all post from you guys, I will go for mid range gx/xt stuff and I will buy some proper wheels for sure once I destroy my current ones.

Fun fuct: Today I bent SLX mech to the point of no return, It is not possible anymore to bent it to the shape where it shifts good. Didnt hit anything just normal riding :D I will change it for my older NX mech and finish that too. I say 3 weeks and I'm buying gx or xt mech.

If anyone work for some bike company and you want to get your stuff proper tested, hit me up, if it survives one month on my bike it is really good

If you didn't hit your rear derailleur against anything on your ride, then you shouldn't have bent it. For example, I've had the same GX 11 speed rear derailleur for 3 years and I've gone through 1 frame and 3 rear wheels over the same time. You've got to be doing something wrong to bend your rear derailleur. Is your chain too short? If so your derailleur could be hyperextending and bending when you go deep into your travel. Are you dropping your bike on the driveside? Are you storing your bike in a place where children, dogs, people, or other bikes are likely to hit the rear derailleur and bend it? There's something else going on if your derailleurs bend when they aren't getting hit.


And Spomer, I haven't spent any time on a truly horrible entry-level freehub, so I'll assume you're right. I've run a big mix of super-high end hubs to middle-ish hubs and haven't cared one way or the other. I think it's probably a mix of what you and D(C) said: above a certain level of engagement, it doesn't matter anymore. Below a certain level and it sucks.

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4/15/2020 2:24 PM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of expensive things that make no difference whatsoever to performance on an enduro/trail bike, or might even make your bike ride worse:

-Kashima
-Spending money on carbon/ti parts to save weight
-upgrading to a carbon frame
-alloy spoke nipples
-hub engagement (unless you're riding trials or in super tricky climbing scenarios)
-carbon cranks, bars, stem
-XTR and most XT parts
-XX1 and XO1
-Carbon rims (actually rides worse)
-Light tires
-electronic shifting
-bladed spokes
-expensive chains
-ceramic bearings
-expensive saddles (ti rails, carbon anything, etc)

I've owned and ridden 90% of the items on that list and can personally certify they're a waste of money.

So nothing is worth upgrading? Just buy the the cheapest bike and it’s just as good?

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4/15/2020 2:25 PM
Edited Date/Time: 4/15/2020 2:28 PM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of expensive things that make no difference whatsoever to performance on an enduro/trail bike, or might even make your bike ride worse:

-Kashima
-Spending money on carbon/ti parts to save weight
-upgrading to a carbon frame
-alloy spoke nipples
-hub engagement (unless you're riding trials or in super tricky climbing scenarios)
-carbon cranks, bars, stem
-XTR and most XT parts
-XX1 and XO1
-Carbon rims (actually rides worse)
-Light tires
-electronic shifting
-bladed spokes
-expensive chains
-ceramic bearings
-expensive saddles (ti rails, carbon anything, etc)

I've owned and ridden 90% of the items on that list and can personally certify they're a waste of money.

I have mixed feelings about that list;
Kashima: marginal gains. of the small percentage of people who may be able to tell the difference, I'd imagine keeping your kit cleaned and lubed would eliminate the difference.
.
Carbon-ti: Sure, not really worth if for the small parts if you're not racing XC
.
Carbon Frame: Absolutely worth it, if you can afford it. Just because weight isn't everything, doesn't mean we all want to be lugging around 35lb rigs.
.
alloy nipples: yeah, those are just dumn on anything but an XC race rig.
.
Hub engagement: the difference between an entry level 3 pawl hub and something like a DT 350 is very noticeable and appreciated.
.
Carbon: cranks, if you need to save weight sure, but otherwise too at risk from rocks. Bars. I love the feel of my carbon bars over the alloy they replaced. Stems. Can't see how a carbon stem would improve ride beyond shaving a few grams.
.
XTR and XT. I don't know, my old XT drivetrain took a hell of a beating and worked flawlessly. I've always seen XT as the real workhorse in the Shimano line. Good performance and reliability without the expense of XTR. My old XT 4 pot brakes were great as well.
.
XX1, X01, absolutely worth it over GX, etc. I have GX on my Levo and xx1 on my Remedy and the differences are profound, both in weight and performance.
.
Carbon Rims: Best upgrade I made to my bike. Period. The bike is much more responsive with the carbon wheels, and the weight difference was enough that even with CushCore inserts my wheels still weigh less than the DT Swiss alloy enduro wheelset they replaced.
.
Light tires: This is all relative. I run WTB "light" versions which are still heavy, but mush less so than a DH tire. Running CushCore allows me to run lighter tires and get the added performance benefit that the inserts provide.
.
electronic shifting: marginal gains. I have an arthritis issue in my right thumb so AXS has been a Godsend. If you don't have that issue then yeah, really just a marginal gain.
.
Bladed spokes: people actually put these on trail bikes?
.
expensive chains: I used to break chains all the time. I stopped buying cheap chains. Granted, you don't need to buy the most expensive either. . . .
.
ceramic bearing: but the guy at Ceramic Speed said. . . . .
.
Expensive Saddles: Simple, find a saddle that works well, buy the variant with steel rails. This may not be cheap, depending on saddle but really, your butt should be worth it.
.

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4/15/2020 6:37 PM

All other things equal - I’ll take the lighter one. (Even if it’s more expensive.)

Carbon frames seem “worth it” to me. Strength/weight ratio, plus the ability to have different (complex) shapes and vary the “weave” and thickness as required for strength and flex characteristics is unique.

Same goes for bars - waiting on my One Up Carbon bars - shaped for vertical compliance, horizontal stiffness.

Carbon Rims suit me - again light (Where you can feel the benefit) and strong (so far - touch wood.)

Running gear seems to be diminishing returns. Like others have said - “XT” seems to hit the spot. Expensive chains seem to run better, and live longer. Should look after the gears better (more time at the correct spec)

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4/23/2020 2:16 PM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Here's a quick list off the top of my head of expensive things that make no difference whatsoever to performance on an enduro/trail bike, or might even make your bike ride worse:

-Kashima
-Spending money on carbon/ti parts to save weight
-upgrading to a carbon frame
-alloy spoke nipples
-hub engagement (unless you're riding trials or in super tricky climbing scenarios)
-carbon cranks, bars, stem
-XTR and most XT parts
-XX1 and XO1
-Carbon rims (actually rides worse)
-Light tires
-electronic shifting
-bladed spokes
-expensive chains
-ceramic bearings
-expensive saddles (ti rails, carbon anything, etc)

I've owned and ridden 90% of the items on that list and can personally certify they're a waste of money.

mfoga wrote:

So nothing is worth upgrading? Just buy the the cheapest bike and it’s just as good?

I'd personally stick with the group you have. Upgrading to XT or XTR will not be any more durable, just a little lighter and smoother. The only reason I would upgrade to XTR would because they offer a shorter cage that is only compatible with a 10-45 cassette giving you more clearance if you're constantly hitting your cage. Oh, and a xt/xtr shifter gives you two clicks when shifting up if thats important to you.

And for wheels, get some stans EX3 hoops, DD casing tires, and cushcore. A wheel should last you a while assuming you're running 28psi or more in the rear.

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4/30/2020 12:52 AM

I had some derailleur issues as well and for the most part, I've found some sort of error on my part between setting it up wrong or not checking certain things frequent enough. Have been running an slx with no issues and then bam, sucked it up the other day on a small drop the other day and it's been bugging me since. I've sized my chain correctly, go around the longest cogs, plus two rivets, or whatever it is, can't remember off the top of my head, I have to watch the damn video every time lol but has anyone had to run an extra link over what is usually recommended? I can't think of why else mine failed as I really don't think I picked up any tail debris. 2018 yt capra, couple pics as well...
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