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Lets talk mullet bikes!

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9/30/2020 12:52 PM

I am very stoked on the mullet set up! I spent a lot of time on my friends mullet at summit this season and i'm sold on it! so here lies the problem, I can NOT afford another bike and I love my 27.5 YT TUES but I hate the fork so I want to swap the fork to a 29 and make my bike a Mullet. BUT! while I don't mind the addition of the 29 fork and wheel slackening the bike, I do absolutely hate the Idea of raising the BB. So the question is it possible to add a 29ER wheel and fork to my 27.5 Tues without raising the bottom bracket more than 4-5mm?

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9/30/2020 1:34 PM

Offset bushings? I know this has been the solution for alot of other bikes to get around this problem. Others might want to add to this point.

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9/30/2020 1:35 PM

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9/30/2020 1:55 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/30/2020 2:03 PM

I don't think those will work because they slacken the head angle as well as dropping the BB. unless I'm not understanding the different types. my bike sits at 63.5 head angle and if I went to the 29er fork and wheel up front it would drop to 62 degrees, then If I added in the shock bushings to drop the BB back to stock those bushings also slacken the head angle somewhere around 61 and I don't want to go lower than 62 degrees.
If those didn't also slacken they'd be perfect.

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9/30/2020 2:32 PM

it's not a good candidate for mulleting unfortunately.

650B bikes in the 65.5 HA area are the prime candidates.

Besides offset bushings, a quick easy one is going to a narrower/smaller volume tyre in the back, easy way to shave some BB height.

Or if the bike has a kinematic to suit, running closer to 35-40% sag. But H/A gets slacker dynamically.

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9/30/2020 2:57 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/30/2020 3:37 PM

I'm thinking about doing the same with my 27.5 Tues, my first choice would be to put on a Dorado at 180mm travel.

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9/30/2020 3:48 PM

Thanks guys looks like ill be saving my pennies and praying that the price on the canyon sender mullet drops!

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9/30/2020 4:17 PM

Reality check: Wheel size is 324th on the list of mountain bike variables that affect performance, and it's definitely behind suspension setup, BB height, head angle, and tire size on that list.

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9/30/2020 5:40 PM

I hear the GT Sensor is the perfect bike for mulleting.

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9/30/2020 9:39 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/30/2020 10:08 PM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Reality check: Wheel size is 324th on the list of mountain bike variables that affect performance, and it's definitely behind suspension setup, BB height, head angle, and tire size on that list.

I like a mullet for more than just it being a fad, I’m way to short for a full 29er but I like the way the bigger front wheel deals with holes and square edge hits. I found that the 29er front wheel on blown out bike park trails with huge bomb holes feels better than a 27.5

So if my fork is dialed, Geometry is up to date, and tires and tire size are the same that world cuppers run. Then am I allowed to look at mulleting my bike? Or do I still need a reality check?

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10/1/2020 1:58 AM

rockchomper wrote:

I don't think those will work because they slacken the head angle as well as dropping the BB. unless I'm not understanding the different types. my bike sits at 63.5 head angle and if I went to the 29er fork and wheel up front it would drop to 62 degrees, then If I added in the shock bushings to drop the BB back to stock those bushings also slacken the head angle somewhere around 61 and I don't want to go lower than 62 degrees.
If those didn't also slacken they'd be perfect.

Yep. You could also get a -2 headset, then you would bring back the HA again. Then it would work?

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10/1/2020 2:05 AM

I'm on both sides of the fence:

Mullet'ed my 29er enduro bike with a heavy rear 27.5 wheel: almost no noticeable change in ride feel beyond increased chatter out back.

Mullet'ed my 27.5 e-bike with a 29 fork+wheel (same tyre: MM supergravity). Was worried about the the increased BB height (357mm for a 150mm travel bike), but interested in the -2degree head angle (66->64). Difference is night and day, feels way more stable, beating all my times by a handful of seconds on 1-2minute tracks. Only downside is climbing isn't great.

I wasn't expecting that much from putting the 29 fork and wheel on the 27.5, yet now i've put my 27.5 fork up for sale... Note that I am not a believer in low BBs to begin with after several horrible crashes from rock strikes to the pedals.

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10/1/2020 8:26 AM

Wouldn't it be nice if all bikes were as adjustable as that new Scott Gambler!

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10/2/2020 7:16 AM

A shorter fork?

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10/2/2020 8:40 AM

Zero Cool wrote:

A shorter fork?

For me a shorter fork kinda defeats the purpose of a DH bike. 200mm or bust ! haha

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10/2/2020 9:32 AM

What fork were you gonna use for this mulletization of your TUES & Have you given the folks over at YT a eMail they’ll get ya sorted on this project I honestly want to know more of how this turns out

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10/2/2020 9:41 AM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Reality check: Wheel size is 324th on the list of mountain bike variables that affect performance, and it's definitely behind suspension setup, BB height, head angle, and tire size on that list.

rockchomper wrote:

I like a mullet for more than just it being a fad, I’m way to short for a full 29er but I like the way the bigger front wheel deals with holes and square edge hits. I found that the 29er front wheel on blown out bike park trails with huge bomb holes feels better than a 27.5

So if my fork is dialed, Geometry is up to date, and tires and tire size are the same that world cuppers run. Then am I allowed to look at mulleting my bike? Or do I still need a reality check?

I think the point is, you don't want to compromise those factors just to go with a mullet setup as the overall handling will suffer. To recognize the marginal benefits of a mullet setup, it needs to be done correctly. I'd suggest looking at a bike designed to be mullet'd - these are a great deal: https://www.commencalusa.com/supreme-dh-27-29-race-2021-c2x31920312

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just hanging out with the bros, feeding off of each other

10/2/2020 9:57 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/2/2020 9:58 AM

Pedal4life wrote:

What fork were you gonna use for this mulletization of your TUES & Have you given the folks over at YT a eMail they’ll get ya sorted on this project I honestly want to know more of how this turns out

I was going to use the Marzocchi 58 becuase its relatively inexpensive as far as good forks go and im not a big fan of high speed and low speed adjustments, Im more set and forget. I hadn't thought to give YT a call, I will call them and give an update on what they say.

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10/2/2020 1:47 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/2/2020 1:50 PM

Hey Rockchomper, you're allowed to look into whatever bike setup you want, my reality check is just trying to help you draw accurate conclusions on the way. You said you borrowed your friends mullet Capra this summer and loved it. There are about 100 different reasons why you may have preferred his bike to yours, and the 29" front wheel is only one of those reasons. Other potential explanations:

-Fork spring pressure
-More or less tokens than your fork
-Coil vs. air fork
-Rear shock sag
-Better or more recent seal/wiper/oil maintenance
-More compression
-Less compression
-rebound speed
-high speed rebound speed
-Fork model, air spring design, and shim stack tune (these features all vary year to year within manufacturer's models)
-Bar height
-Tire pressure
-Tire size
-Tire casing
-Tire inserts
-Head angle
-Chainstay length
-Stem length
-Grip compound/thickness
-Body position on the bike
-Last but not least the placebo factor, which is real. It affects all human subject tests of every kind, and this is no less true for mountain bikers who are excited to borrow their buddies cool trendy new bike.

There are an unimaginable amount of variables that affect bike performance, and that's why pros and suspension tuners try to minimize variables when testing. I've ridden a lot of different bikes, I've tested bikes for manufacturers, and I've ridden all the wheelsizes in every imaginable scenario. I'm not saying wheelsize doesn't matter, that would be too strong, but based on my experience it's really far down on the list. If you thought your friend's Capra rode through rough terrain better than yours, that's great and useful information, but I don't think it logically and necessarily follows that you would benefit from buying a mullet bike.

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10/2/2020 3:46 PM

TEAMROBOT wrote:

Hey Rockchomper, you're allowed to look into whatever bike setup you want, my reality check is just trying to help you draw accurate conclusions on the way. You said you borrowed your friends mullet Capra this summer and loved it. There are about 100 different reasons why you may have preferred his bike to yours, and the 29" front wheel is only one of those reasons. Other potential explanations:

-Fork spring pressure
-More or less tokens than your fork
-Coil vs. air fork
-Rear shock sag
-Better or more recent seal/wiper/oil maintenance
-More compression
-Less compression
-rebound speed
-high speed rebound speed
-Fork model, air spring design, and shim stack tune (these features all vary year to year within manufacturer's models)
-Bar height
-Tire pressure
-Tire size
-Tire casing
-Tire inserts
-Head angle
-Chainstay length
-Stem length
-Grip compound/thickness
-Body position on the bike
-Last but not least the placebo factor, which is real. It affects all human subject tests of every kind, and this is no less true for mountain bikers who are excited to borrow their buddies cool trendy new bike.

There are an unimaginable amount of variables that affect bike performance, and that's why pros and suspension tuners try to minimize variables when testing. I've ridden a lot of different bikes, I've tested bikes for manufacturers, and I've ridden all the wheelsizes in every imaginable scenario. I'm not saying wheelsize doesn't matter, that would be too strong, but based on my experience it's really far down on the list. If you thought your friend's Capra rode through rough terrain better than yours, that's great and useful information, but I don't think it logically and necessarily follows that you would benefit from buying a mullet bike.

I agree all those factors do affect bike characteristics but, it was more of an idea of since I don't like my fork I would like to buy a new one and while I am at it I would like to mullet my bike only if I can keep the geo of my bike the same as it currently is , since I would be buying a new fork anyway now would be the time. But unfortunately seeing how much work and money it would take to mullet my bike it looks like I will just be getting a new fork in 27.5

You do have a ton of great points and I am always playing with my bike set up cuz I'm a bike nerd. So I thought it'd be a fun thing to try on my bike since I want a new fork anyways.

Maybe taking your advice I could play with bar height to simulate the higher front end of the mullet although it wont change the feeling of having that 29er front wheel on a bomb holed bike park it should still help with the weight distribution aspect. thanks for the tips and the effort put into that response.

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10/3/2020 10:03 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/3/2020 10:24 PM

You’re welcome!! Adding 5-10mm of spacers under your bar can make a surprising difference in how a bike rides. If you want to mess around with your current setup, I’d also recommend adding 5 psi to your fork, or even pulling a token and adding 5 psi.

What you’re fighting against on steeper/faster/tougher trails is weight shift. As your front tire hits bumps, it slows down and your body weight shifts forward. This is inherently unnerving and your brain will instinctively slow down to compensate. Slowing down, by the way, compounds the frontward weight shift because now you’re pulling on the brakes. Bar height, 29” front wheels, faster fork rebound, and running a stiffer fork are all ways of combatting frontward weight shift and keeping your bars higher. There are a lot of ways to skin that cat.

Happy puzzling!

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10/8/2020 11:08 AM

I did a mullet conversion with my zerode taniwha, i also put on a 1.5 degree works components headset, it slackens the head angle and drops the front a little while making the seat angle steeper at the same time. First car park ride it felt slack and i thought i had overdone it, but when i rode it the benefits of the 29" grip and roll over were instant and then stability from the relaxed head angle made my ride even more comfortable and stable, the angleset brought my bb around to the same height it previously was.

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10/11/2020 6:28 AM

I tested my Foxy 29 as a mullet, it was a quick and dirty test as all I did was remove my wife's 27.5" rear wheel and install it on my Foxy and go for a 2 hour trail ride.
My bike isn't terribly slack nor low to start with so nothing got to extreme. I did lower my fork travel by 10mm to keep the bike a bit level.
At 5'11" with long limbs it provided no or maybe just 1 advantage but a few disadvantages.
First, done sloppy like this, I didn't like the geo changes for a trail ride at all. The front pushed like mad although I had a fast rolling low grip rear tire installed now (as my wife is more a XC rider), the slackening of the STA was positively unbearable, the rear end was considerably more chattery and rough feeling. I did shove the bike extra hard into a few turns and it felt nice and a few times I was able to do the Pro thing where the rear end pivots around the turn with no brake application and that was really cool. My bike has poor rear tire clearance and this was improved greatly.
In the end, for this application, on this bike on these trails at my height, mullet wasn't worth pursuing imo.
I'd still like to explore it more and I think for a gravity bike, or a shorter person on the right bike it has it's place and very well might be superior to other options. That said, I won't spend money to buy a mullet or convert a bike unless I had lots of testing time beforehand to quantify worthwhile advantages.

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