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Coil Shock + Trail Bike

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10/8/2017 6:59 PM

Ok Vital Think Tank, I've got a topic I'm interested in exploring: Coil Shocks on Trail Bikes, more specifically, short-stroke coils on 150-or-less travel bikes.

I have a coil on my 160 adventure mobile, and it's sublime. That much I know, and as we've seen from the bike checks on here and the EWS, everyone is onto the concept with great enthusiasm.

The short-travel market though is a different story, the split still seems air-heavy, but with Ohlins and Cane Creek producing 200mm and 190mm x 51mm and less, there is real opportunity to get that coil-feeling on XC/ST-Trail bikes.

What are people's experiences so far? Are you happy you moved over to coil? Are there short-comings i.e. linear suspension designs which aren't ideal, weight, fine-tuning, etc. Do you want to move over but want to know more? Have you stuffed a 200mm shock where a 190mm should be to alter geo i.e. run a longer fork and higher bb?

It's the Autumn, and this is the time to talk tech so we can bench ride as the days grow shorter!

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10/9/2017 11:02 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/9/2017 11:38 AM

Good question. Convoluted answer.

Shorter travel bikes, say 115-130mm running on coil is certainly possible. However what will determine whether this is a good idea or not is the bike's kinematics, specifically the leverage ratio curve.

Most of these bikes were designed for an air shock. Going to a coil will yield so-so results, at best. I ran a coil on the SC HT LT with mixed results, ultimately deciding air was a better fit for the design and intended use.

That said, an uber progressive bike like the Jeffsy should work well with a coil at 140 (I think) of travel.

Anecdotally, those riding a shorter travel bike hard need all the ramp up they can get at the latter part of the bike's travel. Usually those wondering if a coil is a good idea in said application would be better sticking with what came on the bike, as you are likely looking to rally the shit out of the bike - something a linear shock with a short travel rear end won't really like.

Put another way, you need as much support and bottoming resistance as you can get in a shorter travel application "ridden like a downhill bike". Why negate this with a coil?

Anyway, now I'm just talking in circles...

This is obviously just like...my opinion. man.

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10/9/2017 12:58 PM

Depends on the bike. Like longwind said above, bikes specifically designed for air shocks tend to try and negate the inherent ramp up at the end of travel with air springs. Since coils do not, this makes 'most' coil shocks allow hard bottom outs on those frames. I say most coil shocks because there is at least one that I know of that has a position sensitive damper at the end of the stroke that should work fine on any bike (fox dhx with boost valve).

What bike you thinking?

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10/9/2017 1:09 PM

Fox DHX2 on my Bronson. Love it, doesn't blow through the travel and keeps me feeling supported on hard impacts. The adjustability of that shock is pretty essential to ensuring I don't blow through it. I just swapped from a 500 lb (was impatient and that was the lightest avail for me) spring to a 450, couldn't get enough sag with the 500. I am 170 lbs, 180 with gear on. I could probably even go to a 400 spring but so far the 450 feels good, I rally it as hard as I can and it feels really composed. The float X that came on the bike felt pretty undergunned.

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10/9/2017 1:37 PM

Hittheshowers13 wrote:

Fox DHX2 on my Bronson. Love it, doesn't blow through the travel and keeps me feeling supported on hard impacts. The adjustability of that shock is pretty essential to ensuring I don't blow through it. I just swapped from a 500 lb (was impatient and that was the lightest avail for me) spring to a 450, couldn't get enough sag with the 500. I am 170 lbs, 180 with gear on. I could probably even go to a 400 spring but so far the 450 feels good, I rally it as hard as I can and it feels really composed. The float X that came on the bike felt pretty undergunned.

FWIW - this would be an application that I'd say isn't ideal.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2015/09/santa-cruz-bronson-2016.html

Leverage ratio curve is pretty flat overall (regressive/progressive).

Obviously, to each their own (not saying you are 'wrong'), but yeah, I'd say most would prefer the Float X2 over the DHX2 in this application.

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10/9/2017 3:39 PM

Jeff, I am inclined to listen to you as you know more about the tech side of it but curious to see what the main concern would be for the coil. The end stroke ramp delivered by the air can vs. the linear nature of the coil means I should conceivable blow through the travel. The HSC helps alleviate that as well. If I were to go with a float X2 and make sure I had some tokens in there, you think the risk of the bike bottoming out on big hits would be lower. Also, the "dead" feeling of the coil vs the livelier air, is that another reason to go air?

My experience with air shocks = blown shocks and leaky seals, and during the time I bought the coil, Fox was recalling the floatX2, so my already lower confidence in air was even worse, and I thought Minnaar's bike looked sick with the orange coil in Rotarua a few years back...

I'd like to try the FloatX2 on the bike so if anyone wants to swap for testing purposes...

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10/9/2017 3:51 PM

Hittheshowers13 wrote:

Jeff, I am inclined to listen to you as you know more about the tech side of it but curious to see what the main concern would be for the coil. The end stroke ramp delivered by the air can vs. the linear nature of the coil means I should conceivable blow through the travel. The HSC helps alleviate that as well. If I were to go with a float X2 and make sure I had some tokens in there, you think the risk of the bike bottoming out on big hits would be lower. Also, the "dead" feeling of the coil vs the livelier air, is that another reason to go air?

My experience with air shocks = blown shocks and leaky seals, and during the time I bought the coil, Fox was recalling the floatX2, so my already lower confidence in air was even worse, and I thought Minnaar's bike looked sick with the orange coil in Rotarua a few years back...

I'd like to try the FloatX2 on the bike so if anyone wants to swap for testing purposes...

Yo man!

1) Don't listen to me *too* much. I'm a nerd. Lol. The cool part about bike setup is it really is personal. What works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. My job is to articulate why something should work, and why something in theory is good/bad/whatever

2) You can utilize damping to control the way a shock reacts to the ground/rider, but it isn't really a substitute for changes in spring rate (spring rate curve). One is speed sensitive, the other is position sensitive (unless its the DHX as woo pointed out).

3) I successfully ran the coil on the SC HT LT, I just preferred air at the end of the day. Look at the recent photos from Finale and you'll note Rat choice a coil on the LT too, despite a less than ideal leverage ratio curve. Point is, taste matters a lot. For me, it wasn't "awful", just as you suggested not as lively as I'd like and it actually made the bike feel as though it has less, not more, travel. DH X2 was the ticket, as it had near coil like small bump (I couldn't tell a difference) but ramped up extremely well, was more lively, was more supportive later in the stroke - a big plus for SC's leverage ratio curves (this side of the V10/Nomad G4).

4) Air shocks have improved drastically the last 2-3 years. Fox's Float X2 is superb, RS's metric stuff awesome. I'd stick to either of those and I think you'd find it compares nicely to your DHX2 - just with a different (more progressive) spring curve.

5) You can more easily adjust an air shock (shock pump vs springs) and also mess with the curve (bands), another big advantage of air. In some ways, it can be used as a "ride height" adjust, by altering the curve in combination with PSI - this is awesome depending on where you are riding and what you are doing...

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10/9/2017 5:36 PM

Jeff: quite on point. I ended up spending about 2 hours on Antonio's linkage blog aka Mr Blackmore's Corner (in the forum) looking at leverage curves. I like to know the how and why when it comes to frame design and spec. Being super picky, I tend to want to change everything to my liking, but thankfully I like to read and can learn why certain designs are the way they are - and how I can then work with them to achieve what I want.

Kid: specifically, the Al. Scout. Bike riiiips, I'm just always trying to run coil if I can. However, it's a bang-on linear suspension "curve", clearly designed with an air shock in mind. Whereas the Patrol, super progressive. Just interesting to look at the graphs and compare all of this, and imagine the meetings with the designers, testers, and engineers discussing the intended use, spec, and average consumer.

I have the new DPX2 on there, and I'm still dialing things in. At 210lbs in riding kit, air and I tend to be at odds with each other, so I was exploring my options just in case. But, that's being super picky and pertaining specifically to finite examples during my ride(s). The bike is a trail rocket and I'm really enjoying it - and the shock is performing very well, again, I am just asking a lot (nothing is perfect!).

If I had my druthers, everything would be progressive and run on a coil shock [because I'm a MOG and with the new climb switched a lot of coils now have, I see no reason to not always run coil shocks if possible].

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10/9/2017 7:02 PM

You'll be fine with a coil on a scout. Like you said it's not as progressive as a patrol with the newer metric shock link but it's still mildly progressive. The thing you really want to watch out for is the fall off/regressive crap that some frames have like a giant reign or turner rfx. Those work well (better) with air shocks than some other frames but are also kind of limited in their design to them.

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10/9/2017 7:58 PM

kidwoo wrote:

You'll be fine with a coil on a scout. Like you said it's not as progressive as a patrol with the newer metric shock link but it's still mildly progressive. The thing you really want to watch out for is the fall off/regressive crap that some frames have like a giant reign or turner rfx. Those work well (better) with air shocks than some other frames but are also kind of limited in their design to them.

Ah, interesting. I was curious if that was that case and what ratio is really deemed "progressive". Looking at a Knolly Endorphine (a very close proxy to the Scout), it's megaaaa progressive, which I think threw me a bit as I was using it as a barometer in conjunction with the Patrol.

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10/9/2017 8:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2017 8:03 AM

Leverage-wise the endorphin is way more progressive. "Progressive" just means the ratio drops through travel. Obviously there are huge varying degrees of that.

Like I said, the digressive hook is really the big no no with going with a coil shock.

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10/9/2017 8:26 PM

jeff.brines wrote:

Yo man!

1) Don't listen to me *too* much. I'm a nerd. Lol. The cool part about bike setup is it really is personal. What works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. My job is to articulate why something should work, and why something in theory is good/bad/whatever

2) You can utilize damping to control the way a shock reacts to the ground/rider, but it isn't really a substitute for changes in spring rate (spring rate curve). One is speed sensitive, the other is position sensitive (unless its the DHX as woo pointed out).

3) I successfully ran the coil on the SC HT LT, I just preferred air at the end of the day. Look at the recent photos from Finale and you'll note Rat choice a coil on the LT too, despite a less than ideal leverage ratio curve. Point is, taste matters a lot. For me, it wasn't "awful", just as you suggested not as lively as I'd like and it actually made the bike feel as though it has less, not more, travel. DH X2 was the ticket, as it had near coil like small bump (I couldn't tell a difference) but ramped up extremely well, was more lively, was more supportive later in the stroke - a big plus for SC's leverage ratio curves (this side of the V10/Nomad G4).

4) Air shocks have improved drastically the last 2-3 years. Fox's Float X2 is superb, RS's metric stuff awesome. I'd stick to either of those and I think you'd find it compares nicely to your DHX2 - just with a different (more progressive) spring curve.

5) You can more easily adjust an air shock (shock pump vs springs) and also mess with the curve (bands), another big advantage of air. In some ways, it can be used as a "ride height" adjust, by altering the curve in combination with PSI - this is awesome depending on where you are riding and what you are doing...

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Glad I posted in this thread as I now know a hell of a lot more vs. when I woke up this morning. I am definitely interested in the FX2, but for now, happily smashing laps and hucks to flat on my pink Bronson with some bright orange steel on it.

https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/news/875 - Pic of the GOAT rallying some enduro on the bike that started the obession with the coil buzzing the shit out of that external dropper post routing.

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10/10/2017 7:55 AM

kidwoo wrote:

Leverage-wise the endorphin is way more progressive. "Progressive" just means the ratio drops through travel. Obviously there are huge varying degrees of that.

Like I said, the digressive hook is really the big no no with going with a coil shock.

Ah! Good clarification. That's something I was particularly curious about.

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10/10/2017 8:14 AM

sideshow wrote:

Jeff: quite on point. I ended up spending about 2 hours on Antonio's linkage blog aka Mr Blackmore's Corner (in the forum) looking at leverage curves. I like to know the how and why when it comes to frame design and spec. Being super picky, I tend to want to change everything to my liking, but thankfully I like to read and can learn why certain designs are the way they are - and how I can then work with them to achieve what I want.

Kid: specifically, the Al. Scout. Bike riiiips, I'm just always trying to run coil if I can. However, it's a bang-on linear suspension "curve", clearly designed with an air shock in mind. Whereas the Patrol, super progressive. Just interesting to look at the graphs and compare all of this, and imagine the meetings with the designers, testers, and engineers discussing the intended use, spec, and average consumer.

I have the new DPX2 on there, and I'm still dialing things in. At 210lbs in riding kit, air and I tend to be at odds with each other, so I was exploring my options just in case. But, that's being super picky and pertaining specifically to finite examples during my ride(s). The bike is a trail rocket and I'm really enjoying it - and the shock is performing very well, again, I am just asking a lot (nothing is perfect!).

If I had my druthers, everything would be progressive and run on a coil shock [because I'm a MOG and with the new climb switched a lot of coils now have, I see no reason to not always run coil shocks if possible].

Woo answered most everything.

Couple things... Fill that DPX2 with spacers, just to see if you like it. Its as un-coil as you can get, but give it a go as a bigger guy. I think you may like it.

Second, yeah, woo nailed it - coil on the scout = fine

Finally, yeah, I agree most frame designers would be smart to make all their frames inherently progressive. We went away from that in the era prior to fully understanding negative springs, air can volume etc. These days we can have a progressive frame and pair it with an air shock for excellent results (G4 Nomad for instance), or you can swap to a coil with equally (and sometimes better) results.

This wasn't really possible 5 years ago...

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10/10/2017 8:15 AM

Hittheshowers13 wrote:

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. Glad I posted in this thread as I now know a hell of a lot more vs. when I woke up this morning. I am definitely interested in the FX2, but for now, happily smashing laps and hucks to flat on my pink Bronson with some bright orange steel on it.

https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/news/875 - Pic of the GOAT rallying some enduro on the bike that started the obession with the coil buzzing the shit out of that external dropper post routing.

If you are smiling and having fun, screw the haters! Run what ya brung!! smile

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10/10/2017 9:45 AM

Does anyone have any info to add about running a coil on a Yeti SB6c ?

I recently switched from the Float X to a DHX2 with a climb switch. I like it but its kind of hard to get the settings right.

I am 195 and running a 300# spring, I am gauging the correct spring rate by measuring the sag and it seems to be spot on at 3/4 of an inch, shock length is 8.5

Could I benefit from a increased spring rate? Is sag a relevant number any way?

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10/10/2017 9:51 AM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2017 9:52 AM

ben_hagle wrote:

Does anyone have any info to add about running a coil on a Yeti SB6c ?

I recently switched from the Float X to a DHX2 with a climb switch. I like it but its kind of hard to get the settings right.

I am 195 and running a 300# spring, I am gauging the correct spring rate by measuring the sag and it seems to be spot on at 3/4 of an inch, shock length is 8.5

Could I benefit from a increased spring rate? Is sag a relevant number any way?

There are a number of spring calcs out there - weird part is Fox has the best one but its only for internal use (EG, its not out there - and no, its not the one on their website though that one is okay http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/mtbspringratecalculator.html ).

My guess is you are too light for that frame according to the calc I ran, but your sag is about right (its a 2.5" stroke right?)

Only thing to consider is the SB6 is a very linear curve, so going up a hair in spring rate isn't the worst idea.

Where are your other settings? What aren't you liking?





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10/10/2017 10:01 AM

ben_hagle wrote:

Does anyone have any info to add about running a coil on a Yeti SB6c ?

I recently switched from the Float X to a DHX2 with a climb switch. I like it but its kind of hard to get the settings right.

I am 195 and running a 300# spring, I am gauging the correct spring rate by measuring the sag and it seems to be spot on at 3/4 of an inch, shock length is 8.5

Could I benefit from a increased spring rate? Is sag a relevant number any way?

jeff.brines wrote:

There are a number of spring calcs out there - weird part is Fox has the best one but its only for internal use (EG, its not out there - and no, its not the one on their website though that one is okay http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/08/WCeng/Content/mtbspringratecalculator.html ).

My guess is you are too light for that frame according to the calc I ran, but your sag is about right (its a 2.5" stroke right?)

Only thing to consider is the SB6 is a very linear curve, so going up a hair in spring rate isn't the worst idea.

Where are your other settings? What aren't you liking?





I will have to go double check at lunch the clickers. its 8.5 x 2.5 with a sls spring.

I am really happy with the small - medium bump compliance. Where its lacking is in bigger drops, successive big hits.

All I know off the top of my head is that one click of the HSC makes a huge difference.

Would a 50lb increase in spring rate be enough to notice or should I go from 300-400lb to test.

I see some guys on the race team running 450-550lb springs, similar weight and riding aggression.

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10/10/2017 10:18 AM

ben_hagle wrote:

I will have to go double check at lunch the clickers. its 8.5 x 2.5 with a sls spring.

I am really happy with the small - medium bump compliance. Where its lacking is in bigger drops, successive big hits.

All I know off the top of my head is that one click of the HSC makes a huge difference.

Would a 50lb increase in spring rate be enough to notice or should I go from 300-400lb to test.

I see some guys on the race team running 450-550lb springs, similar weight and riding aggression.

Yeah, you most likely need to go up in spring weight.

Mojo's calc suggests you need to be on a 450 pound spring! LOL. Maybe give Yeti a buzz, but I'd guess a 400 would help!

http://www.mojo-store.co.uk/PBCPPlayer.asp?ID=1737817

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10/10/2017 10:30 AM

jeff.brines wrote:

Woo answered most everything.

Couple things... Fill that DPX2 with spacers, just to see if you like it. Its as un-coil as you can get, but give it a go as a bigger guy. I think you may like it.

Second, yeah, woo nailed it - coil on the scout = fine

Finally, yeah, I agree most frame designers would be smart to make all their frames inherently progressive. We went away from that in the era prior to fully understanding negative springs, air can volume etc. These days we can have a progressive frame and pair it with an air shock for excellent results (G4 Nomad for instance), or you can swap to a coil with equally (and sometimes better) results.

This wasn't really possible 5 years ago...

I might chuck some more spacers in there, but I think I'm just going to go for it re: the coil.

Coming from a DH racing background, I really prefer coil. When I finally got back into trail riding and all my bikes came with Float rear shocks, I just never got on with air (again, big dude probz, the same issue with the Monarchs I've ridden - it's not a brand-specific issue), and while the DPX2 is a great middle ground, it's still not a coil. I'm curious to try the volume reducers just to see what happens though. I'm finally in the kind of shape I want to be where I could do multiple loops to test back-to-back.

I like air in principle, and I've enjoyed my current set up a lot recently when I've been riding away from my local. But, the places I mainly ride are so root-infested and chattery, that air just doesn't have that "off the top" flutter which is a huge boon to keeping my feet on the pedals (flats for life) and rear wheel tracking on rugged climbs. I was just at the Kingdom Trails on the Float 36/DPX2 combo two weeks ago, and it was sublime. But then, being in the Adirondacks this weekend on some of the roughest trails I've ever ridden, I was massively challenged (even after making compression adjustments before hand). This is mainly pertaining to actual "XC" scenarios, as when it comes to the descents, the speed and forces combine to make these "complaints" nonissues - which is also when the piggy-back air really shines, it didn't pack up once on me this weekend which had two different rough and fast descents. Horses for course as they say, and I'm just chasing perfection for my main trail network.

We are in an epoch of really refined bikes, which is great to see. There is something for everyone (provided budget isn't an issue!). I'm thrilled to be able to nerd out this hard with tuning options without needing to bring a Dremel into the mix.

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10/10/2017 10:33 AM

I have a Cane Creek DB Coil IL (all the abreviations...) on my Transition Smuggler. It's amazing.

The curve for that bike is pretty linear so it's a nice compliment and the Cane Creek shock has SO MUCH adjustability that tuning opportunities are on point. The climb switch makes the bike great on long climbs. Set it and forget it.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2014/10/transition-smuggler-29-2015.html


Photo

Photo

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10/10/2017 10:35 AM

jeff.brines wrote:

Yeah, you most likely need to go up in spring weight.

Mojo's calc suggests you need to be on a 450 pound spring! LOL. Maybe give Yeti a buzz, but I'd guess a 400 would help!

http://www.mojo-store.co.uk/PBCPPlayer.asp?ID=1737817

400 sounds like the minimum starting point for you here, yeah. 300 has to be waaay undersprung. I'm currently running a 2.75" stroke coil on my 170mm travel bike (so I have a slightly lower overall average leverage ratio, 2.43/1 vs 2.5/1), and at about the same weight as you I can barely get away with a 425lbs spring (the spring calc said 400 for me but that was too soft for any kind of bigger hits - and I have a super progressive frame).

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10/10/2017 11:14 AM

cycling247 wrote:

I have a Cane Creek DB Coil IL (all the abreviations...) on my Transition Smuggler. It's amazing.

The curve for that bike is pretty linear so it's a nice compliment and the Cane Creek shock has SO MUCH adjustability that tuning opportunities are on point. The climb switch makes the bike great on long climbs. Set it and forget it.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2014/10/transition-smuggler-29-2015.html


Photo

Photo

Solid feedback! That curve is veryyy close to the Scout's too.
I think we'll start to see a lot of those set-ups next season!

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10/10/2017 1:29 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2017 1:31 PM

On my 2016 Giant Reign I recently went from from a Monarch Plus RC3 to a Fox DHX2 coil and man it is night day different. I weigh 200ish geared up and even with 5 volume reducer bands I just couldn't get the Monarch Plus to feel right. The DHX2, once tuned really makes that bike a lot more lively and snappy-ish. Maybe Giant's Maestro suspension design is more suited for a coil?

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10/10/2017 1:34 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2017 1:35 PM

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-txTqTOrUQzM/U-QW3pXk6gI/AAAAAAAAUF8/x6MTEK-wnfY/s1600/Giant+Reign+27.5''+2015_LevRatio.gif

Maestro, VPP, 4 Bar, Single pivot, FSR, DW Link, Split Pivot, Trek's Split Pivot Knock-Off - They can all be tuned to work with coil or air. Depends what the engineer wanted to do.

What will largely determine if its good or bad is this little graph here (or the forces graph)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-txTqTOrUQzM/U-QW3pXk6gI/AAAAAAAAUF8/x6MTEK-wnfY/s1600/Giant+Reign+27.5''+2015_LevRatio.gif

See how the curve of the Reign (and Trance) start at one leverage ratio (3.3) and then goes down to another leverage ratio (2.6). This is the progressiveness we are talkinga bout. Its harder and harder to move the shock through its travel (because the leverage ratio DECREASES - you have less of a lever! - as the wheel cycles)

Considering how high this ratio is to start, yes, its doubly good to go to a high quality coil (or air shock)
in this design - it will more easily overwhelm the damping capabilities of lesser shocks.



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10/10/2017 1:41 PM

sideshow wrote:

Solid feedback! That curve is veryyy close to the Scout's too.
I think we'll start to see a lot of those set-ups next season!

Provided more suspension brands take note of the small demand for micro-sized coil shocks, I think you're right. As you mentioned before, very few companies make coils short enough to fit most trail bikes. The lack of options may limit growth.

I had the chance to do some back-to-back coil versus air shock testing with RockShox in Whistler recently. It was on the new 165mm travel Devinci Spartan, but you guys will have even more interesting things to nerd out on when the feature is ready for the world to see.

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10/10/2017 1:48 PM

jeff.brines wrote:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-txTqTOrUQzM/U-QW3pXk6gI/AAAAAAAAUF8/x6MTEK-wnfY/s1600/Giant+Reign+27.5''+2015_LevRatio.gif

Maestro, VPP, 4 Bar, Single pivot, FSR, DW Link, Split Pivot, Trek's Split Pivot Knock-Off - They can all be tuned to work with coil or air. Depends what the engineer wanted to do.

What will largely determine if its good or bad is this little graph here (or the forces graph)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-txTqTOrUQzM/U-QW3pXk6gI/AAAAAAAAUF8/x6MTEK-wnfY/s1600/Giant+Reign+27.5''+2015_LevRatio.gif

See how the curve of the Reign (and Trance) start at one leverage ratio (3.3) and then goes down to another leverage ratio (2.6). This is the progressiveness we are talkinga bout. Its harder and harder to move the shock through its travel (because the leverage ratio DECREASES - you have less of a lever! - as the wheel cycles)

Considering how high this ratio is to start, yes, its doubly good to go to a high quality coil (or air shock)
in this design - it will more easily overwhelm the damping capabilities of lesser shocks.



That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation Jeff. Much appreciated. Now I'm curious how a Float X2 would feel dammit. haha

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10/10/2017 1:52 PM

tbarnesarc wrote:

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation Jeff. Much appreciated. Now I'm curious how a Float X2 would feel dammit. haha

LOL

It'd probably feel a bit more sporty but a hair more harsh, though I am really generalizing. You see a lot of pros going back and forth these days depending on if they want max progressiveness or a bit more linear-ness. Both have their place.

Good example is Gwin. You saw him run both this year. Kicker is his frame is progressive (actually very progressive) by nature. I can't remember where but he was mentioning he likes the coil more in his "old age" as its a bit more compliant (more linear) - but again, I know we saw him on both the FX2 and the DHX2 through the year.

Cool times we live in eh?!

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10/10/2017 2:19 PM
Edited Date/Time: 10/10/2017 2:26 PM

ben_hagle wrote:

Does anyone have any info to add about running a coil on a Yeti SB6c ?

I recently switched from the Float X to a DHX2 with a climb switch. I like it but its kind of hard to get the settings right.

I am 195 and running a 300# spring, I am gauging the correct spring rate by measuring the sag and it seems to be spot on at 3/4 of an inch, shock length is 8.5

Could I benefit from a increased spring rate? Is sag a relevant number any way?

you should switch to a 450 or a 475 spring. I just talked to push about setting up an 11/6 for the same frame, and a 450 should be the run of the mill spring on that frame given your weight if you prefer to be at the high end of that spring's range, while a 475 could work if you ride harder/do bigger drops/prefer to be at the lower end of the spring's range. Mind you, that was all for an 11/6, not a fox/cc double circuit shock. But 300 is way under sprung regardless. smile

for those of you with bronson gen-1 frames

https://www.pushindustries.com/collections/rear-shock/products/elevensix-with-gen-1-bronson-linkage?variant=43770047502

yeah, it is still a lot of money, but it should give that frame a healthy new lease on life i would think smile The 11/6 has kind of blown my mind it is that good. And after running Bos for the last few years it was not like my past setups were bad to begin with


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10/10/2017 2:58 PM

bturman wrote:

Provided more suspension brands take note of the small demand for micro-sized coil shocks, I think you're right. As you mentioned before, very few companies make coils short enough to fit most trail bikes. The lack of options may limit growth.

I had the chance to do some back-to-back coil versus air shock testing with RockShox in Whistler recently. It was on the new 165mm travel Devinci Spartan, but you guys will have even more interesting things to nerd out on when the feature is ready for the world to see.

Well well welllllll...! This ought to be neat!

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