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I am just about 5'9" (175cm) and the reach to the bar mount center-bore is about 455mm
Somewhere I have some notes with the exact measured stack and reach.
My mounts are raised and pulled back compared to the Pro Taper direct mount stem I bought initially.
I am running the Pro Taper A25 handlebar (25mm rise) in a fairly neutral position.
The longer (size large) frame is a necessity... The bike would be cramped with this cockpit and long chainstay at a shorter wheelbase.
It feels confident and open with this configuration.
I've ridden a GasGas e-bike that belongs to a friend... That also has a pretty long chainstay with the Yamaha motor.
For me, the weight is an advantage in suspension action. Going from MTB to moto, you really feel how much better the suspension works on a heavy bike with 300mm of travel vs a light bike (about 39lbs for my Banshee) with 200mm.
I started my MTB riding on a 2007 Transition Gran Mal in the summer of 2022. That's a 26er with 1170mm wheelbase and a 450mm chainstay, plus a high bottom bracket and something like 40mm or 50mm stem length.
The 1293mm banshee wheelbase with about 343mm BB height feels much more confident on the steep stuff we have around Washington state and the 29 doesn't hang up in any pockets.
Still, I gave some thought to where my body is positioned on steep stuff.
I am still keen on trying 5mm and 10mm taller bar mounts using some shims under my current mounts.
I actually run a 10 speed cassette and pedal this bike like a trail bike, everywhere. The taller bar may put a little more bend in my elbows.
@Primoz , I reminded myself to grip my seat with my knees as I dropped into the first timed segment of my enduro race last Saturday... In moto we do grip the bike and ride with our core... It's impossible to ride any other way and keep that 230lbs bike in shape through the rough. Since my bike corners more like a motocross bike, it is less dynamic on the roll axis and I probably have substantially less steering input than bikes with shorter trail numbers and longer stems.
I only had a few minutes to type this before leaving for a job at another CNC shop this morning... I'll think on this a little more today / tonight.
I have some chest-mount go-pro footage from motocross... Maybe I'll capture some on this bike so we can kinda see what that looks like.
Interesting about the gripping with the knees thing - having beaten the concept of “bike body separation” into my mind for the last decade, this goes against pretty much everything I’ve been working towards. Caveat: I’ve never ridden moto in my life, nor really watched a real moto race while focusing on rider position. On a mtb gripping with your knees, how do you get sideknobs to engage effectively while cornering given you can’t rly counterweight to not tip over in this scenario? Since knee grip would lock you into the vertical plane of the bike when it’s tipped?
Not necessarily—think of how people wrap their knees around the bike when doing a euro table. You can use a similar grip when hitting back to back corners.
I don't think you can even draw conclusions about the effectiveness of a bike setup based on a rider's race results. IMO results are much more dependent on the rider themselves. I love Reece and he seems like a fantastic dude, but I haven't ever really regarded him as a top tier racer.
I bet if you forced Jackson Goldstone onto a Gamux with a similar setup and gave him a month or two to adapt to it, he would still be winning races.
Think of a fully rigid bike. In your mind's eye, picture the bike like a pendulum that pivots on the contact patch.
Bike & body separation allows the bike to move, follow terrain and trail contours.
From my perspective, that riding style is important since it allows your body to follow a smooth path while the bike moves and stays in contact with the track.
In moto, we call that being loose on the bike. When the track is really rough and/or muddy, it is important to stay loose in some sections.
Typically the consequence of not being loose in motocross is that you are wrestling the bike with your arms. If you try to wrestle a 230lbs bike with 50 to 60 horsepower around a technical track, your arms are the first point of failure.
In moto, you grip the frame from the pegs up to the seat with the sides of your boots and the bodywork with your legs and the knees.
Consider that pendulum, pivoting at the tire contact patch with the rider somewhat locked into the bike... The pendulum is now longer since it includes the rider.
The natural oscillation frequency of a pendulum does not depend on the quantity of the mass.
The frequency depends on the length of the pendulum from pivot to center of mass.
The lower natural frequency of a longer pendulum (bike with rider gripping and tight core muscles) can be more stable laterally.
The rider can control how much of that stability he wants by gripping the bike, or relaxing and "staying loose".
A good motocross racer can control the lateral and vertical stability independently with legs and core.
Rough high speed sections of track and stadium whoops are probably the place where gripping the bike is the most important in moto.
The best riders have the balls of their feet on the pegs and they squeeze the bike with their legs.
We don't really ride stadium whoops on bicycles, but we do ride some pretty rough downhill trails with all kinds of stuff trying to ping the bike off course laterally. In my experience, gripping with the knees can add some stability. Also, pushing a knee up against one side of the seat can help through rough, off-camber sections.
On engaging side knobs... You lean with the bike more. This doesn't work in tight single-track as well as moto, so you have to bend the legs and body to drop the bike into the corner around tight trees, etc. Also, when you take flat corners with loose over hard dirt and/or marble sized loose rocks, you can't fully commit to leaning in with the bike the way you can in a berm, a rut, or perfect loamy conditions. I do think my desire to lean the bike vs steer the bike through corners is part of the reason I like the moto inspired cockpit and increased trail in the front end. I do think the long chainstay, super short stem, and shorter fork offset go along with a style of riding that borrows technique from motocross.
What are you defining as top tier? Reece has been world champion and is regarded as one of the best, if not the best, mud rider in the world. He hasn't been front of the pack as of late if that is what you mean?
I agree that I don't think you can draw firm conclusions about set up and results without back-to-back testing in a controlled environment (even then it is difficult).
How does the weight difference of the bikes impact what you are saying, if at all?
If I am not mistaken (I'm not a moto person), your typical moto is at least 5-6 times heavier than your typical mountain bike. Does this not change the physics of what you are saying? I'm mainly thinking that on a rough section of track, compared to a mountain bike, a moto will have a higher inertia creating a solid platform you can stabilise yourself against.
Its similar to Neko winning Sea Otter on 32 inch. Neko also used to be a top 10 contender but he knows he's not able to ride at that level anymore. The thing is also those riders know they only can keep their careers/business flourishing if they get attention via social media and tinkering like that will get them attention. But its hard to say from those two results if this is really a big advantage or not. Like for that they would have to have a sudden much better result on a real dh track against the top dogs (compared to sea otter) or a few of them.
Hattie with the IXS dub at Fort William. Uncle Reeco 3rd in men’s.
Preeeeeetty sure Frameworks isn’t being kept afloat by 32” wheel social media buzz, bud.
For context. Reece finished 7.3 seconds behind Hatton's winning time. Both are highly accomplished at Fort William. But Hatton's average World Cup finishing position in 2025 (when he made finals) was 16th. So 7 seconds slower than a racer who's at best a solid top 20 racer is not a great advertisement for Stemgate. Although, Fort William being flat compared to other tracks, I'd assume it's a track where the reverse stem would have more drawbacks than benefits.
Very competitive time for Harnden compared to the men. But she had no competition for the win in her category. With Mille Johnset being closest at 21 seconds back. This is equivalent to 6%. Which for Fort William (per Roots and Rain data) is a typical performance for Mille. Where as an elite racer she has usually been 5%-8% behind the winning time.
Both Hardnen and Hatton also won the iXS in Fort William in 2025. With Hatton's set-up little changed since 2025. Harnden with a normal cockpit set up in 2025 finished 43 seconds behind Hatton, in 2026 Harnden with the reverse cockpit set-up finished 46 sec slower than Hatton. So conditions in 2026 playing a bigger role than stems?
More interesting and not Stemgate related is Tess Van Weerdhuizen, winner in women's Under 17 category with a time only 3.9 seconds back on Harnden.
Not anymore but that is how he grew the Brand in the first place and that strategy obviously still works. Race results alone don't matter that much anymore in the age of fast paced social media. You need to constantly deliver content that people engage with and a 32 wheel dh bike is just that.
Hattie is also very fit, even compared to other enduro riders. In 2024 she had some dominant performances on longer, pedaly EDR stages putting huge time to into everyone else. So I bet her fitness on this track is what made the biggest difference.
Totally agree!
I don’t know if you mean to be saying it, but what you sound like you’re saying is that Neko’s only or main motivation in testing 32” wheels is marketing. That only makes sense if you assume that there isn’t any advantage in performance or experience with 32” wheels and that Neko knows that in advance.
The simpler explanation is that Neko’s continuing to develop his bike the same way he always has -- publicly, either at his bike park or at local races -- and is currently testing the same thing that every other bike developer is testing: 32” wheels.
I'm saying that it's too early to tell from that result and that the Frameworks brand was built with the frame development in part as a marketing tool because it was covered and promoted explicitly from the very beginning for social media. I'm not criticizing it but it's just a fact that if you want to stand out as a racer today you're either competing for top 5 or 10 or you have to stand out in some other way via social media. And bike brands use racing as promo for their products so racers starting bike brands and promoting them while racing is just a logical step. Neko could also have gotten some frame sponsor back then but he would be were he is today without it. But not because he would have been slower race results wise because the evolution of dh bike tech has slowed in the last years, not accelerated.
I don’t think anyone took anything away from the Sea Otter win besides “huh” or “wow, an Aspen front tire sounds nuts”.
If you want to argue that audience capture is the tail wagging the bike development dog, though, you’re going to have to explain how Neko ended up with a welded aluminum crab-link normie bike and not a gearbox belt-drive high-pivot eight-bar steampunk rig.
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