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So seems like the consensus here is that I should just take the L and cut my banjo bolt off of my BH90-SBM (stock hose with XT brakes) and run the Maven Bronze calipers. If I ever want to go back to the XTs I can just put the Jagwire adapter on there. I ask all this because routing on my V3 Bullit is tedious since it's zip ties inside the frame and can't just be done quickly with an internal routing fishing kit.
Any tips on un-fucking the freestroke screws? Seems like my XTs came with those little guys epoxied in and I really don't want to go down the strip and extract rabbit hole
No not really?! Ive had probably 20 different saint and XT levers over the years and have never had that screw frozen. Admittedly, it is a bit annoying to get purchase on it with a screwdriver sometimes
I always use SLX levers and remove the factory plug and install a set screw in its place. Same as xt's but like $35 a piece.
Hey Evwan,
I'm also planning to pair the Maven Bronze brake calipers with my XTR levers. How has your experience been after using them for a while now? Is everything still running smoothly?
And what about the modulation? Is it similar to the full Shimano brakes ?
So I did a couple rides with the Shhmaven set-up (saint levers paired with ultimate calipers) and was not happy with the lever feel. It was super "on-off" and the freestroke was too short. Not much modulation and my fingers were waaay out in space at the bite point.
Do I need to pull a bit of fluid out of the system with the bleeding edge? Or is this the general shhmaven feel?
If the bite point has your fingers way far out away from the bars, just dial it back with the normal shimano lever reach adjust.
As for on/off feel - yeah they lack modulation. They provide a smack you in the face amount of power. I love it, but it's not for everyone.
Modulation is similar to saint if you have ever used those, just with way more power. That is to say, very little modulation. A shit ton of power upfront, followed by even more power when you pull more. If you are used to yarding on brakes to get usable power, you're going to have an adjustment period moving to maven or shaven.
I started only using magura hose, magura insert pin/bard and shimano olive with shimanos lever (xt , slx, zee, saints) ever since i read deep in a forum that that was the proper setup, never had issues after (got some small leaks at the lever before that when using magura olives with shimano levers)..I believe the shimano bard is smaller diamater than the magura, there could be a good fit once the olive does its work.. with I think the ID of the Shimano hose is smaller than the magura one.. coul dbe wrong.. my best setup so far is mt5 caliper, saint levers with putoline hpx 2.5 oil..
The shimano banjo i believe the id of the fitting is bigger than the magura bolt/screw? The seals will work but you have to centralize it when tightening as it can go uncentered? The id of the magura pairs with the od of the bolt I believe.. this was my experience many years ago, but have not use any other banjo/hose besides magura with the magura calipers
Oh I have them dialed all the way in on the reach adjust...
Still way too far out.
I'm a huge fan of the regular Shimano on/off feeling, but coupled with the Mavens and with my fingers way out in outerspace it's simply too much haha!
This sounds like a setup issue. I have used both saint and xt levers on the maven calipers and the lever reach was no different from using the XT calipers.
Instead of cutting my banjos off my Shimanos, I’m thinking of using Lewis kevlar brake hose with Maven Bronze calipers. It’s only $35 for both front and rear and Im impressed with the quality of it on my LH4s. It’s also nice that the LH4s use a a banjo bolt that screws on, so I can just remove that and try out the Lewven setup on my bike with the LH4s.
Talking hoses and banjos.
I’ve got both a Shimano hose and sram hose with me at home.
Shimano BH90 hoses accept sram stealthamajig’s
SRAM hoses accept Shimano barbs and olives.
SRAM hose is marginally smaller diameter than Shimano. However I tested this in a lever and crushed a Shimano olive to get a good seal on the hose.
With regards to Banjos.
Both have the same inner diameter.
Meaning you can ran a sram bolt through a Shimano banjo.
Shimano banjos have an ever so slightly wider but thinner o-ring.
I haven’t personally tested the mavens with Shimano levers but I’d be fairly confident that a Shimano banjo would work totally fine on a maven caliper. The seal is formed by the o-ring and there is enough area on the maven caliper to get a good seal with a Shimano banjo.
The sram banjo bolt should work perfectly with a Shimano banjo.
I hope this might help some people and hopefully someone could test this.
Picked up some lightly used MT5s and XT 8100 levers with the plan of going with Shigura on a new project, but this past week I stumbled onto some Maven Bronzes at a steep discount. I run Shiguras on my main bike and really love the feel and performance (I'm a clyde at 100kg/220lbs).
I've entered decision paralysis. Stick with the Shigura plan? Abandon and go straight Maven? Or go all-in with the Shmavens?
Run mavens first. Get a feel for them. Then try shmaven for a good comparison. If you don’t like it, try Shigura.
Welp, the Maven Bronze calipers were out of stock everywhere so I got some Silvers and tried it with the Shimano BH90 banjo bolt and it bolted up perfectly. (using XT levers) The SRAM blue banjo seals are huge and fit in the Shimano banjo fitting just fine. Comparing them to the tiny Shimano ones I'm wondering how the Shimano ones ever worked! I used SRAM mineral oil to eliminate factors that would cause issues. It's nice to know the SRAM mineral oil is higher viscosity than Shimano too. (only problem is the price, classic SRAM)
Piston massage was a bit of a pain as one piston on both calipers wanted to extend all the way out way before the others, which led to oil leaking out of it and requiring me to redo the bleed. I also did my normal attach the cup full of oil at the lever and pull the lever until bubbles stop coming out. Best of both world bleed experience though. At the caliper the Bleeding Edge tool is easier than Shimano's 7mm wrench setup. At the lever Shimano's cup is way easier the 2 syringe witchcraft SRAM levers require.
Got one ride in on the ebike (53lb Bullit V3 220 rotor rear 200 front 2.3mm thick rotors) and here's my notes:
- They're powerful, but they're not smacking me in the face with power. I feel modulation (or maybe I've been on Shimano so long I don't actually know what "modulation" is lol). The word "responsive" comes to mind more than the word "power" (although there is plenty of it on tap). When I pull the lever, the total braking force I want happens more quickly, but is can still be gradual enough to where I'm not locking the rear wheel up. I'm running stock organic pads but will be trying Galfer black once these are shot. (again price, $25-$35 for SRAM pads that may accidentally get contaminated during bleed is robbery!)
- I was astounded at how much braking I was NOT doing. It's much easier to hit braking points and actually get all your braking done so you can let off and carry speed out of a corner. I rode flow trails that have some awkward flat sections where you MUST pump or the features won't work (even on an analog bike). Being able to get on the brakes, then off them really quickly helped make these trails work better.
- Incredible on the steeps as expected
- My one concern with how they will perform on wet roots (with bad braking technique/mistakes) is pretty alleviated. It's easy to not lock the wheel up and these will also let you get your braking done on the dirt in between the wet roots. I'll report back on that once I get up to Snowshoe's nasty flat roots this summer.
All in all best bang for your buck powerful brake setup out there, especially if you already have XTs which are worthless on the used market (going for $250 new for a set)
Being able to simply throw a pair of Maven calipers at a bike with XT brakes without having to re-run or even modify the hoses strikes me as a huge boon
Edit: I assume this is also the case for SLX/XTR/Saint due to their similarities
You should be using a ‘pad massage’ block. Smaller width than a bleed block. This will stop the pistons coming right out. It’s pretty normal for one piston to move at different rates.
I’d be inclined to use the Shimano o-rings still. Just because it’s bigger doesn’t mean it’s going to achieve a better seal.
I found the SRAM o-rings did not match nicely with the Shimano Banjo.
Keep us updated though.
The SRAM video said I could use two 1.8mm brake rotors, which I did but the piston still went out far enough to leak fluid out. I ended up using a tire lever instead.
Are you running the Shimano O rings in this setup? My ape brain figured the SRAM ones were fine since the fitting is sitting perfectly flush on the caliper/fitting and you can't see a single spec of blue from the O rings outside it, but I was really just guessing. I'll be taking a paper towel to the banjo fittings after each ride to check if there's any fluid on there and report back.
amazing.. maybe overlord read this and make a change haha..I just checked last night, even the compression bolt at the lever from the mavens fit shimano... not sure it was mentioned before.
Piston massage should be done now with the black plastic pad spacer, not the 2 rotors. That info is outdated / from release - all the current manuals say to use the spacer. Put the thin end of the pad spacer in (with pads installed), squeeze lever until pads advance and feel firms up. Pull spacer out, flip it around so it's thicker, and shove it between pads to force them back. Squeeze lever once or twice to reset the seals. Repeat a couple times and you're good.
The stock pads, both black and copper, are good value compared to others, and actually work great - much better than Code pads were. Not sure why you're bleeding with your good pads in if you're concerned about contaminating them.🙄 It's like 30 sec to remove them. Best practice for bleeding anyways is to clean the inside of the caliper and then resetting the pistons before bleeds anyways, to keep the pistons advancing evenly/smoothly.
Do the Silver calipers come with Banjo bolts?
Oh I don’t ever bleed with pads in and am hyper when it comes to cleaning my hands, calipers everything. Sometimes shit just happens and pads get contaminated. Doesn’t happen often but still has happened more than once!
Yes. They have everything you need to bolt them to XT brakes except the bleed block. (and the SRAM caliper adapter if you’re using one)
Somewhat incorrect.
That plastic with different widths sets the pad spacing. It’s not for massaging the pistons. It doesn’t allow the pistons to advance as much.
The piston massage block is about 4mm thick and you use without the pads in.
If you google ‘sram piston massage spacer’ you’ll see what it looks like.
Huh, weird. When I've seen those before they referenced DB so I figured it was just for the DB8 brakes. Does that spacer fit in the notch in the caliper body for the rotor to keep it centered? Now I'm curious to see what the thickness is of the pad spacer (thin side) + brand new pads, or pad spacer + worn old set of pads that I use for bleeding. I like using the pad spacer because when you use the thick side to reset the pistons (with pads in), it pushes all 4 pistons back evenly, unlike trying to get them one at a time with a plastic tire lever. Even the red plastic sliding wedge tool tends to do 1 side before the other.
I just found a 3D print file. Came in 3.8 and 4mm. Pad spacer even on the thick side is smaller width than the sram massage spacer.
Yes clips to brake pad retaining bolt.
If you want a better option to evenly push pistons back in then have a look on AliExpress etc. look up ‘piston spreader tool bicycle’
Better than a tyre lever and no risk of popping a piston out.
Anyway let’s get back to talking Shimano levers and not make this another maven bleeding thread.
Built up a set of TRavens with TRP Evo Pro levers and Bronze Calipers. Ultimately went this route because I could build up a set from takeoffs and spare parts cheaper than buying either set new down here in NZ. Plus love a kludge.
Everything went together super easy, thanks to everyone who tried before and sorted the details. Definitely took a few bleeds and piston faff to get it feeling good.
Coming from TRP EVOs definitely feels like more power delivered sharper, never ridden Mavens so can't compare to their power. I was expecting more dead band with this setup but the contact adjustment can pretty much remove any dead space when all the way in, I'm running it about 1/3 out to get the feel I like.
If anyone's wondering, the new SRAM piston massage spacer is 3.8mm instead of 4.0mm because at 3.8mm it can work on DB8 and the Maven calipers. If the pad spacer was 4.0mm (the same width as two HS2 rotors, which was SRAM's previous recommendation for a Maven piston massage), it wouldn't fit in the notch in the caliper body on the DB8. And yes, the spacer should nest in the notch in the caliper body on either the Maven or the DB8, which helps keep it centered and helps prevent you from over-extending a piston.
Before the SRAM spacer came out, I was using an old 4mm thick Pedro's wrench for Shimano Hollowtech 2 BB cups for piston massages on my Mavens. Worked great, but I prefer the new spacer because clips into the brake pad pin and I don't have to hold it there.
Serious question: how is everyone putting the pistons back in place after extending them during a piston massage?
I'm using an old yellow plastic tire lever and doing the pistons one at a time (more or less), but that feels barbaric and incredibly imprecise, and seems like a great way to sideload or accidentally angle a piston into the caliper seal. Is anyone messing around with a piston reset tool like one of these (I'm going to post this in the Brake Nerd thread, too, because I'm curious). And yes, I recognize that two out of these three tools would not work in a Maven because there's no access to the top of the caliper:
be a man, use your fingers 🤣.. honestly this fancy tool is beyond acceptable snobbery..
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