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If they got both, then good. If I’d have gone weeks/months with no money/bike I’d be pissed
Who would buy a YT at this point with The Floss at the helm?
having seen the average YT owner (aka, not me with way too many posts on an enthusiast forum)... None of those dudes know who Meathead Markus is. they probly don't even know who Tippie is.
They know what 1-5k extra cash feels like in their bank by buying YT instead of Trek/Spesh/SC/etc
The fact that so many riders are re-signing and that apparently Markus set all this up LONG ago (seemingly before the bankruptcy) tells me he knows how practical re-starting is, and getting right back to undercutting to win. Which was always their play. (Which is probly why they were happy to dump any great racer they signed.)
I just feel bad for all the mill employees, which is what made us lean towards YT as we had such great experiences with the SC crew. And... Having spoken with some they def have a lot to say and it's only just beginning to come out. Notably, no part of me was married to YT's name/image/owner/etc. Shit had I known the mill would be gone I'd just have gotten another Polygon or waited out some Specialized sales. (I still plan to put a stumpy frame in the Jeffsy if it cracks)
But ya let's not act like people won't flood right back to YT even if you outright tell them what their reputation is now. Dollars make sense...
I can't help but think that someone was thinking (knowing? ) their days were numbered and decided to do something on his/her way out...
Over the past year you could see things slipping at YT. Orders stalled, buyers spoke up, and the race team looked shaky. Riders started asking around for spots for the next season by mid year. Their pit kept getting smaller each round.
Then the company folded. Its US arm followed soon after. Coverage from most mtb media outlets stayed thin. Many sites simply posted the company line and moved on. Aside from one or two reporters who stayed on it, the rest kept quiet. It feels like no one wants to risk future ad money from YT, so they avoid any real investigation.
Well, arguably the biggest issue was... All the lying. YT specifically lying to the media that things would continue on as usual and such. And being as vague as possible so the media COULDN'T report on much.
Meanwhile news is starting to come out... About WHEN Markus began re-starting YT. Again, still in the he said she said phase but people are bringing up that the new company (again, its a NEW company and NOT the one that is still stuck in insolvency even to this day)... Was seemingly started BEFORE the insolvency.
Call it savvy planning. I like to call it... Manipulative and selfish. (shrug)
The new company will not do 'mills' as per Markus... So all those employees are likely out of a job. I'm not sure if there would be any position for the employees. Whereas free riders are already being re-signed.
But ya. I give him no benefit of the doubt. He used the cockroach method, and will probly survive with his brand intact. (At the expense of everyone who was sacked.)
Now contrast how Flossmann treated the whole organization against Clint Speigel’s comments about how it’s his responsibility to keep I9 strong and solvent to insure stability for the employees.
That's the difference between between a boss and a leader..
What this cat said.
it just puzzles me how the german community on mtb-news.de is celebrating and giving flossmann a pat on the shoulder, despite numerous hints about how he acted shady before and during the downfall of YT.
No doubt. Some German is going back and forth with Jimmy and calling him egocentric and narcisstic for, as an ex-employee, not considering the "other" side of the story (Flossman's). Dude... Jimmy wasn't some mechanic or floor worker at a YT Mill. He was the director of marketing and athlete manager for YT USA. I'm pretty sure he understands Markus's position and perspective much better than a random German poster on Instagram. He also has extensive experience in the industry, having been Global Marketing Director for DC Shoes before crossing over into the MTB world with YT.
I had the same guy call me out as "venting my frustration" because I said Markus kept his suffering to a minimum.. So, now Markus bought it back at a low price, how long before he sells again?
The Q&A is live on their Instagram story.. I only got through a few questions..
This also reminds me... I just saw Brian Cahal's video pop up in youtube recommended when he was 'paid' to do a press trip review of the new Decoy release (literally so close to the bankruptcy its kinda hilarious)
And there was a small quip in one of his videos about how he'd love to get his trip/flight/something reimbursed by YT eventually. Anyone close to him able to confirm? Would love to hear if like he got paid but a single thing was left out or if he got completely rinsed on the entire trip by YT or what. Or if it was actually all settled finally.
The biggest offense of the YT scenario was the timeline. He gaslit everyone in to believing things would continue on, and took no effort to warn people seemingly. And if this situation comes to light that he started the new company BEFORE it all went down, then he can't even blame stubborn passion. Which is still no excuse, as a CEO.
VERY rough notes from the insta Q&A
Markus says yt usa will comeback, claims yt usa was completely independent and not effected by insolvancy - they purchased bikes from company at cost of goods and sold them. He says they ran into their own problems
"why did he sell, will he sell again?" After 12 years of hustle he sold in 2020 to get something out of it. Unsure if he’d sell company again, “sees raw diamond in front of him, wants to develop brand but can’t promise he wouldn’t sell again, but says not his plan or intention to sell this time.
Former employees - kept some orig employees, but not all b/c “leaner”
Insolvency was b/c “bike industry was so heavily discount driven, impossible to have margin.” “Too aggressive growth plan” “company costs too high” “main owner pulled out, no more financing” - difference now, “focusing on roots, lean cost structure, realistic growth plans”
Honor warranties? - “yes of course, 100% regardless of where you got the bike”
YT mob - “dh team paused for next season, present with Irmisch dev team.” (No mention of if anyone who spent their own money this year was made whole)
Sales should start immediately if not already
Remain d2c brand? Yes, but “switch direction to omni-channel” “d2e - direct to everyone” (whatever that means)
Remain in San Clemente? Said he wanted to. he asked if he could take over lease of building in San Clemente but landlord said already had tenant
Said he didn’t know about the stock that Jenson had was there until he read it online. Those bikes will have more complicated warranty but should be honored.
Return to the US - timing unknown but in next 3-6 months is goal.
Really confused on what he means by more complicated warranty for jenson bikes but above that says Honor warranties? - “yes of course, 100% regardless of where you got the bike”. This doesnt make sense. Buying from jenson isnt a 2nd owner bike. Its still a brand new YT and warranty should be honored the same
I would guess that YT USA sold THEIR inventory to Jenson without his approval, so he's not keen on honoring that warranty, since he didn't bless the deal. Just speculation, though.
'cant promise he wont sell again'
finally some transparency. the transparency of 'yes, ill absolutely do it again if i want to, deal with it'
the weird thing is when he sold he didnt quite ride off into the sunset. and now hes gone through all the hassle of getting the company back. and took on the task of being the CEO during the events of every one getting sacked.
this is awkward foot in foot out behavior. while i dont expect another PE-boom/covid-era to cause such a timeline again... saying he's open to doing all that again more or less, is garbage lol. clearly he made out ok from it, if he's not saying "nah im done with other CEOs/financers, best for everyone if i stay in charge and majority owner" would seem like an EZ win of an answer to me but (shrug) (not like lying is off the table, innit?)
can‘t read much accountability or learned wisdom/lessons from that answers to be honest… time will tell.
but him still being on the helm is a big mistake IMO.
Btw it's a business in Germany to found empty GmbH companies, that you sell to people if they need one really quickly—for example, https://www.foris.com/en/shelf-companies/se/
Could explain the random name (Mondstein 660 or so), early date and random person as shareholder/owner. Also, it was founded in Munich, and on that random website, which is literally the first in in google it says, "Our companies in Berlin, Düsseldorf, Frankfurt/Main and Munich are ready for immediate takeover."
Idk if it's the case, just throwing that in here.
Why need his approval he said they were completely independent
re: jenson bikes warranty, he spoke in greater detail about it. something like the bikes were sold online w/o warranty (noted on the sales page of jenson), but if a warranty is needed, they'll be honored, but warranty would have to go through jenson IIRC.
There was something said by one of the YT USA peeps that maybe Markus was looking to buy the USA inventory for cheap.. Maybe the the Jenson sale was a FU or they had to get rid of it ASAP if the lease was up on the building... Or, maybe making sure the money was there for the USA employees to get the final checks..
I have a feeling that they were sold without a warranty because it wasn't known that things going down like it did.. These bikes were sold to Jenson prior to the new company announcement..
Actually, now that I've had a few minutes to think about it, I'm guessing the people handling the insolvency of the "old" YT told them to liquidate the inventory. There was probably money owed to Germany for those bikes. With money owed to creditors that has to be paid, they needed whatever YT USA could get for them. No warranty since at that point Markus's new deal hadn't been announced.
As far as the mill concept being dead... I wonder if we see a scaled back version at some point? Not so big and over the top.. Think more along the lines of a Specialized or Trek company store.. Keep them in key areas, but handle online orders from a separate warehouse..
Markus mentioned an omni-channel program.. That's basically what most brands are doing now.. But, I know of one company that primarily a D2C deal that offers bike shops the chance to be a dealer, however the margins they offer the shops is terrible. Barely a break even deal after shipping and time spent building the bike.
However he moves forward, it will be interesting to see..
At this point, given YT's entire history. I'd just wonder what it takes... What specifically would it take for people to effectively turn their back. I feel like the whole Gwin and Zink timelines were kept fairly hush, at least in terms of average consumers. But this was obviously much larger, directly affecting customers.
We always know customers will return to a good value, even if they participated in a boycott. But I'm a bit surprised he's not struggling to remain with the same vendors or is able to pivot so quickly/easily and retain all of his best ROI team riders. Although I guess when you thin the herd until it's basically just you and a direct distribution system... It's not hard to fill roles. Just wonder if its the exact same vendor. Implying they were made whole and comfortable moving forward again.
The bike biz is full of people with short term memory issues.. Plus, I'm fairly certain that it won't be his fault.. Racer wise, there is always someone looking for a ride that will take a chance.. But, the current format might make it harder for them to get on The WC DH stage. Is the ROI really there is another question..
that’s what Rose started years ago and Canyon is implementing right now.
Most people have worked for employers they don’t like for a career stepping stone or a bigger paycheck.
most people only look at the price tag and what they’ll get out of it and could not care how it came to be and who is profiting.
Marcus and the new yt’s obstacle is going to be all the suppliers that likely got left with unpaid bills. But someone will likely take his business. And while small group of people will always be vocally opposed to yt due to its actions. I’d be willing to bet a lot of them would eat their hat and ride a yt if the bikes are good and the price is right.
Because two things(good and bad) can be true about an entity at the same time.
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