MTB Tech Rumors and Innovation

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dolface
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1713
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10/26/2015
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USA
7/27/2023 6:36am
Primoz wrote:
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/superstrata-manufacturing-stops-amid-customer-complaints-302783 There was talk about the tech support being aimed at mountain bikes too, but looks like it was a bit too good to be true...

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/superstrata-manufacturing-stops-amid-…

There was talk about the tech support being aimed at mountain bikes too, but looks like it was a bit too good to be true for the time being... 

For folks who might not be familiar w/ the whole saga: https://escapecollective.com/the-superstrata-is-not-a-good-bike/

2
7/27/2023 8:36am
Primoz wrote:
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/superstrata-manufacturing-stops-amid-customer-complaints-302783 There was talk about the tech support being aimed at mountain bikes too, but looks like it was a bit too good to be true...

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/superstrata-manufacturing-stops-amid-…

There was talk about the tech support being aimed at mountain bikes too, but looks like it was a bit too good to be true for the time being... 

dolface wrote:

For folks who might not be familiar w/ the whole saga: https://escapecollective.com/the-superstrata-is-not-a-good-bike/

Didn't Revel make their DH bike using Arevo's tech? I'm not sure if they licensed the method or had Arevo make the parts but the machine looks the same: https://revelbikes.com/product/rodeo/

Onawalk
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CA
7/27/2023 10:36am
Good to see they're still working with WAO for the rims, rather than venture out on their own and end up with something inferior. There's A...

Good to see they're still working with WAO for the rims, rather than venture out on their own and end up with something inferior. There's A LOT of established confidence in WAO.  

dolface wrote:
Anyone know/care to speculate if they will offer a rim-only option? Been eying the WR1 Factions but the i9 rims are quite a but lighter which...

Anyone know/care to speculate if they will offer a rim-only option? Been eying the WR1 Factions but the i9 rims are quite a but lighter which is appealing to me...

Faction rim is listed as 425g,

I9 rims (TR 300) listed as 406/427g

dolface
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USA
7/27/2023 10:46am
Onawalk wrote:

Faction rim is listed as 425g,

I9 rims (TR 300) listed as 406/427g

UL is 378g which is pretty light for a 30mm rim (and I weigh 60kg Laughing​​​​​​​)​​

1
7/27/2023 11:36am

IMG 7927 0

Any info on these burgtec grips on Ratboys bike from hardline? Sig grip? 

1
Onawalk
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344
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Location
CA
7/27/2023 12:57pm
Onawalk wrote:

Faction rim is listed as 425g,

I9 rims (TR 300) listed as 406/427g

dolface wrote:
UL is 378g which is pretty light for a 30mm rim (and I weigh 60kg ​​​​​​​)​​

UL is 378g which is pretty light for a 30mm rim (and I weigh 60kg Laughing​​​​​​​)​​

Revive, 345 grams, same inner rim width

7/27/2023 10:54pm
Good to see they're still working with WAO for the rims, rather than venture out on their own and end up with something inferior. There's A...

Good to see they're still working with WAO for the rims, rather than venture out on their own and end up with something inferior. There's A LOT of established confidence in WAO.  

dolface wrote:
Anyone know/care to speculate if they will offer a rim-only option? Been eying the WR1 Factions but the i9 rims are quite a but lighter which...

Anyone know/care to speculate if they will offer a rim-only option? Been eying the WR1 Factions but the i9 rims are quite a but lighter which is appealing to me...

These use their proprietary spoke and hub design, so no.

Proprietary spoke design? What about nipples? 

Primoz
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4676
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Location
SI
7/27/2023 11:35pm

I9 has aluminium spokes that have the nipple 'built-in' - the spoke flares out to essentially make the nipple and it threads into the hub.

1
7/28/2023 12:06am

These use their proprietary spoke and hub design, so no.

the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs passed a few years ago when they introduced the fancier hydras

4
7/28/2023 4:34am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2023 4:35am
Primoz wrote:

I9 has aluminium spokes that have the nipple 'built-in' - the spoke flares out to essentially make the nipple and it threads into the hub.

But is a standard nipple compatible with I9 rims, if you have a hub from another brand that’s using standard spokes?

7/28/2023 5:58am

These use their proprietary spoke and hub design, so no.

luisgutrod wrote:
the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs...

the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs passed a few years ago when they introduced the fancier hydras

they had some problems with the driveside bearings and axles breaking though, far from the best hubs

3
TannerVal
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128
Joined
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Location
Hampton, NH, USA
7/28/2023 6:03am

These use their proprietary spoke and hub design, so no.

luisgutrod wrote:
the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs...

the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs passed a few years ago when they introduced the fancier hydras

they had some problems with the driveside bearings and axles breaking though, far from the best hubs

2
7/28/2023 7:33am
Primoz wrote:

I9 has aluminium spokes that have the nipple 'built-in' - the spoke flares out to essentially make the nipple and it threads into the hub.

But is a standard nipple compatible with I9 rims, if you have a hub from another brand that’s using standard spokes?

Certainly not by design, perhaps by some janky hack. They don’t sell them rim-only anyways and you may as well get WAO at that point. 

mfoga
Posts
771
Joined
9/21/2015
Location
Moreno Valley, CA, USA
Fantasy
7/28/2023 8:44am

These use their proprietary spoke and hub design, so no.

luisgutrod wrote:
the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs...

the old torchs are bombproff, and the spokes are super sturdy compared to conventional spokes.. hard to destroy.. so, the train of the inmortal I9 hubs passed a few years ago when they introduced the fancier hydras

Disagree on the spokes I had two spokes snap in a bike case while shipping flying with the bike. Only time I have had an issue was with I9 wheels. 

1
kcy4130
Posts
319
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
USA
7/28/2023 10:04am
Srams' UDH spec models include a cable stop on the "Full mount" Model. Does this mean mechanical Transmission? https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com/

image-20230728103858-1

Srams' UDH spec models include a cable stop on the "Full mount" Model. Does this mean mechanical Transmission? https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com/

Sure looks like a cable stop. Great find. Couple more views. 

image-20230728110200-1

image-20230728110235-2

image-20230728110315-3

7
TayRob
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Location
USA
7/28/2023 10:40am

SX Transmission here we come!

11
noodlenosteeze
Posts
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Location
Salt Lake City, UT, USA
7/28/2023 11:29am
TayRob wrote:

SX Transmission here we come!

SRAM is killing the high end componentry right now in terms of sales, but Shimano is winning in every cat XT and below.. SX Transmission is inevitable.

4
7/28/2023 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2023 12:39pm
Srams' UDH spec models include a cable stop on the "Full mount" Model. Does this mean mechanical Transmission? https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com/

image-20230728103858-1

Srams' UDH spec models include a cable stop on the "Full mount" Model. Does this mean mechanical Transmission? https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com/

kcy4130 wrote:
Sure looks like a cable stop. Great find. Couple more views. 

Sure looks like a cable stop. Great find. Couple more views. 

image-20230728110200-1

image-20230728110235-2

image-20230728110315-3

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell a lot and take advantage of the mounting. 

5
mspenc
Posts
6
Joined
3/2/2023
Location
Fort Collins, CO, USA
7/28/2023 1:06pm
Srams' UDH spec models include a cable stop on the "Full mount" Model. Does this mean mechanical Transmission? https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com/

image-20230728103858-1

Srams' UDH spec models include a cable stop on the "Full mount" Model. Does this mean mechanical Transmission? https://www.universalderailleurhanger.com/

kcy4130 wrote:
Sure looks like a cable stop. Great find. Couple more views. 

Sure looks like a cable stop. Great find. Couple more views. 

image-20230728110200-1

image-20230728110235-2

image-20230728110315-3

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell...

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell a lot and take advantage of the mounting. 

The electronics are more crucial when you consider the narrow-wide cassette teeth and how the chain moves on the ramps. SRAM could easily make a mechanical direct mount derailleur (NX maybe) but only work with the older style eagle cassette and have zero issues. That's truly what I want; the better shift quality is a plus for me but not critical - the durability is far more desirable.

3
7/28/2023 1:57pm
Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell...

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell a lot and take advantage of the mounting. 

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect shift every time. The mechanical drivetrain will work, but it won't work as well. 

5
3
7/28/2023 2:15pm
Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell...

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell a lot and take advantage of the mounting. 

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect...

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect shift every time. The mechanical drivetrain will work, but it won't work as well. 

You probably have more info than me, but to me it just seems like a specific delay per gear, I haven't seen any evidence of a position or resistance sensor. So the first shift gets fired off at any point on the cassette. Your fingers ability to sense the amount of effort required to move into the next gear could perform the same task. Or perhaps some kind of clutch in the shifter that only allows X pressure to be applied to the shifter cable. 

4
7/28/2023 2:33pm
Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell...

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell a lot and take advantage of the mounting. 

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect...

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect shift every time. The mechanical drivetrain will work, but it won't work as well. 

I'm getting it from reading people's inexperienced opinions and you're also making my point. It DOES NOT have to be electronic to shift "well" and if you read those who have experience it's not "perfect shifting every time." That would be the SRAM marketing dept. Durability on the other hand does seem to set it apart which is certainly not electronic dependent. 

1
7
Primoz
Posts
4676
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
7/28/2023 3:35pm
Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell...

Makes total sense. Every argument I've read saying why it needs to be electronic to work properly doesn't really make sense when there's potential to sell a lot and take advantage of the mounting. 

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect...

I don't know where you're getting that from. The electronics help the derailleur shift as soon as there is a shift ramp, so it's a perfect shift every time. The mechanical drivetrain will work, but it won't work as well. 

You probably have more info than me, but to me it just seems like a specific delay per gear, I haven't seen any evidence of a...

You probably have more info than me, but to me it just seems like a specific delay per gear, I haven't seen any evidence of a position or resistance sensor. So the first shift gets fired off at any point on the cassette. Your fingers ability to sense the amount of effort required to move into the next gear could perform the same task. Or perhaps some kind of clutch in the shifter that only allows X pressure to be applied to the shifter cable. 

That requires knowledge and experience, something most people don't have when it comes to shifting gears... 

TEAMROBOT
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Location
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Fantasy
7/28/2023 3:58pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2023 4:03pm

Hey Jesse, I know you're a trained engineer and you're probably smarter than me and work for SRAM and I'm just some guy, but I've read that the SRAM Transmission does not use electronics to sense the shift gates in the cassette in order to sync the derailleur movements to match in time. Instead, the shift movement of the derailleur cage is instantaneous when you hit the button, and the delay you observe is from the chain waiting for a shift gate in the cassette to travel through the gate and change gears. The pronounced shift gates in the cassette (and perhaps the proprietary T-type chain shape) are what allow seamless shifting under load, not the derailleur per se. So it doesn't need to be electronic to shift real good like.

20
7/28/2023 4:52pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Hey Jesse, I know you're a trained engineer and you're probably smarter than me and work for SRAM and I'm just some guy, but I've read...

Hey Jesse, I know you're a trained engineer and you're probably smarter than me and work for SRAM and I'm just some guy, but I've read that the SRAM Transmission does not use electronics to sense the shift gates in the cassette in order to sync the derailleur movements to match in time. Instead, the shift movement of the derailleur cage is instantaneous when you hit the button, and the delay you observe is from the chain waiting for a shift gate in the cassette to travel through the gate and change gears. The pronounced shift gates in the cassette (and perhaps the proprietary T-type chain shape) are what allow seamless shifting under load, not the derailleur per se. So it doesn't need to be electronic to shift real good like.

Thanks for the compliments but we all know you're not just 'some guy', and I'm just a bike nerd like the rest. What you are saying makes sense.

All I really have is a lot of ride time on the new Transmission, as well as the older AXS on some of my other bikes. All I said was the electronics help when the derailleur will shift. It doesn't 'sense' this, it just has a map of all the of ramps in the cassette. So it knows the gear you are in, which way you have shifted, and roughly how long the delay will be until the chain hits the shift ramp, so it puts the derailleur into position to catch the ramp, and then finishes the shift when the ramp is met. Like the guys said previously, we have been able to do this with our thumbs on downshifts, slightly pressing the lever and letting the derailleur catch the ramp before finishing the click. Transmission does that by itself, and the best part about that is I will come into a climb I didn't expect and be able to press a button and be turning over into an easier gear while only thinking about cranking up the steep pitch. I wasn't bold enough before to shift while under significant load like that for fear of breaking my chain, that fear was probably unfounded as Shimano does make a great drivetrain, but now I don't have that worry. I do like the idea about the clutch in the derailleur where it will only shift under certain pressure, that could be the solution for mechanical. 

But I haven't been able to do that on upshifts. On transmission I personally feel this is when I need to grab a handful of gears trying to get back up to speed. If I have to go click-click-click, it won't mangle 3 gear shifts at once, instead it's a steady, consistent shift for 3 gears.

16
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