Everything Lourdes World Cup

grambo
Posts
147
Joined
3/20/2017
Location
CA
3/28/2022 1:30am
Not piling on hate here for Gwin or IFR, I want to see the dude and team do well, big support for local boy Seth and Dak is a ripper. But just an observation from the outside, comparing the IFR process re: timelines and refinement against what Commencal did with the V5, building a private track and having long team camps with engineers there testing everything it's just another level. Or with Specialized, Finn lived with his mechanic for 6 months this off-season doing testing. The resources teams like Commencal Muc Off, Specialized, Canyon, Trek etc. are putting in is next level, I guess it's a different scale than IFR which is a new upstart.
Primoz
Posts
4522
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
3/28/2022 1:48am Edited Date/Time 3/28/2022 1:48am
THe landscape of the sport is changing. The number of people running data acquisition is also on the rise, sooner or later this will become the norm.

The same thing happened in F1 in the 80s going into the 90s. Back in the 80s a team of 10 to 20 people designed a car and they did basic testing. These days a team of 200+ people designs a car including a metric shitton of simulations of CFD, structures, performance, they simulate races on the fly, etc. etc.

It's a realistic scenario that some teams/brands will be left behind if they will not be prepared to go forward with the new paradigm.

What's it like with MX in this regard, does anyone know this?
grambo
Posts
147
Joined
3/20/2017
Location
CA
3/28/2022 2:11am
I meant to add in my post that the results for IFR make sense in the circumstances, Dak 11th after two weeks on the new bike, Gwin with a huge crash qualies day and Seth with a painful crash in the whoops. Gwin mentions in the Dialed race day video they are still working on setup... not much more the riders could've done.
veefour
Posts
851
Joined
7/31/2016
Location
Cinderford GB
3/28/2022 3:34am Edited Date/Time 3/28/2022 3:35am
Sven_Claas wrote:
It’s basically February which means it’s nearly March which means World Cup Racing is nearly here! (Positive thinking never hurts) To start of excitement, this is...
It’s basically February which means it’s nearly March which means World Cup Racing is nearly here! (Positive thinking never hurts)

To start of excitement, this is too good not to share. Course builders must be following the AMA Supercross these days!


Are you planning on updating the title to keep the thread running after the post race stuff has finished, or do we need to start a new one for Fort Bill?
jezken
Posts
20
Joined
10/27/2010
Location
AU
3/28/2022 3:37am
Amaury and rest of commencal team were on crank Brothers synthesis wheels and sponsored by enve... Similar to blacking out tires? Going for the best? Haven't seen any other comments on this. Anyone else in the know?
3
3/28/2022 6:16am
Wish gwin had done better but anybody on a new set up or had a little something wrong this weekend was going to have a really tough time with the difficulty of track and lift line traffic. I also assume the frenchies were more willing to extend their training season to be peak form for this race while others are playing the long game. it’s a long season and it will be exciting to see where people are after the break. Also exciting to see where Troy comes back.

At the end of the day he crashed his bike. Aaron isn’t the type to make excuses so I’m sure he’ll be fired up to be ready to take on the rest of the season.

1
sspomer
Posts
6040
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
3/28/2022 7:10am
Oli_C wrote:
Just wondering whats happened to the slideshows? We were of course spoilt to have such good coverage the last few years. Last year we lost EWS...
Just wondering whats happened to the slideshows?
We were of course spoilt to have such good coverage the last few years. Last year we lost EWS slideshows and I barely followed the series. Luckily for DH we have videos and live stream.
Has the industry evolved and photogs are making money elsewhere? Fair enough if so.
we stopped ews slideshows after 2019 (exception of finale 2020). no DH shows this year unfortunately. it was my decision. we were going to stop last year, then tried a single wrap-up show after the race. i know there are you uber-core fans out there, but the interest (views) was extremely disappointing. the format is just too clunky/old anymore and there's so much competing for our attention that it didn't make sense for us. sorry, flame on.
5
3
sspomer
Posts
6040
Joined
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Location
Boise, ID US
3/28/2022 7:20am
jezken wrote:
Amaury and rest of commencal team were on crank Brothers synthesis wheels and sponsored by enve... Similar to blacking out tires? Going for the best? Haven't...
Amaury and rest of commencal team were on crank Brothers synthesis wheels and sponsored by enve... Similar to blacking out tires? Going for the best? Haven't seen any other comments on this. Anyone else in the know?
daprela's bike from slowmo vid and press release bike before the race - still enve bars on track, but like you said, not enve wheels. interesting.

2
kcy4130
Posts
319
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
MT US
3/28/2022 7:38am Edited Date/Time 3/28/2022 7:39am
Oli_C wrote:
Just wondering whats happened to the slideshows? We were of course spoilt to have such good coverage the last few years. Last year we lost EWS...
Just wondering whats happened to the slideshows?
We were of course spoilt to have such good coverage the last few years. Last year we lost EWS slideshows and I barely followed the series. Luckily for DH we have videos and live stream.
Has the industry evolved and photogs are making money elsewhere? Fair enough if so.
sspomer wrote:
we stopped ews slideshows after 2019 (exception of finale 2020). no DH shows this year unfortunately. it was my decision. we were going to stop last...
we stopped ews slideshows after 2019 (exception of finale 2020). no DH shows this year unfortunately. it was my decision. we were going to stop last year, then tried a single wrap-up show after the race. i know there are you uber-core fans out there, but the interest (views) was extremely disappointing. the format is just too clunky/old anymore and there's so much competing for our attention that it didn't make sense for us. sorry, flame on.
That's disappointing, I always liked the slideshows. Still, I'm immensely grateful for the content, especially the raw edits.

Regarding the commencal team running crank bros synthesis wheels, it is interesting, not surprising they're not running Enve anymore tho! Anyone know if it was the synthesis alloy or carbon?
3
3/28/2022 9:13am
kcy4130 wrote:
That's disappointing, I always liked the slideshows. Still, I'm immensely grateful for the content, especially the raw edits. Regarding the commencal team running crank bros synthesis...
That's disappointing, I always liked the slideshows. Still, I'm immensely grateful for the content, especially the raw edits.

Regarding the commencal team running crank bros synthesis wheels, it is interesting, not surprising they're not running Enve anymore tho! Anyone know if it was the synthesis alloy or carbon?
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch an hour of slides and interviews. Super bummed.
7
chriskief
Posts
722
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Location
New York, NY US
3/28/2022 9:50am
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch...
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch an hour of slides and interviews. Super bummed.
Pour one out for the slideshows. They will be missed (by at least a couple of us).
8
3/28/2022 10:18am
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch...
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch an hour of slides and interviews. Super bummed.
Yea, super bummed, my favorite was the track walk slideshow. The practice/qualis/finals slideshows did start to seem a tad repetitive (naturally) but I still enjoyed them. Thanks to the photogs for all the great years of slideshows and interviews, and of course I still love the RAWs, etc.
4
kcy4130
Posts
319
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
MT US
3/28/2022 10:48am
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch...
Oh man that is super disappointing. Literally the best mtb content out there. I guess its just us old dudes with attention spans who can watch an hour of slides and interviews. Super bummed.
Yea, super bummed, my favorite was the track walk slideshow. The practice/qualis/finals slideshows did start to seem a tad repetitive (naturally) but I still enjoyed them...
Yea, super bummed, my favorite was the track walk slideshow. The practice/qualis/finals slideshows did start to seem a tad repetitive (naturally) but I still enjoyed them. Thanks to the photogs for all the great years of slideshows and interviews, and of course I still love the RAWs, etc.
I actually like the new trackwalk video format better, interviews with RAW footage from prior years to illustrate sections of track. I'll mostly miss the slideshows cause they'd have stories and behind the scenes stuff that one just doesn't get elsewhere, particularly about newer or lesser know riders. Plus they were the best photographers. Oh well.
3/28/2022 11:27am
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT (I know that will ruffle feathers) then a series of injuries and the move to Intense has just derailed it through his prime winning years.

As I said in the tech thread, it's really disappointing that the IFR guys got their bike ridiculously late. This has been a project in the works since last summer (really before that) and they don't get bikes until a couple weeks before the season?? Sorry to be harsh, but that's pathetic for a company who has inhouse frame-building capabilities. You can't be competitive at this level with a couple weeks on a bike. Look at Luca, Laurie, etc. Everyone giving them props for doing so well on a 'new bike' and they've had those bikes for 3-4 months.

Also, the interview with Jeff, on the other site... Jeff talking about how it's a work in progress and they'll be racing prototypes throughout the season because that's core "Intense" as a brand. Ummm, this is 2022, no other top riders are trying out prototype bikes all season long and tinkering. Gwin is in the last couple years of his career and he's forced to be testing out prototype bikes all year after a couple years of injuries and bikes/tires that held him back. Pretty bummer way to close out his career. Here's to hoping they can get the bike dialed in the next 6 weeks and this was just a bump in the road. I give DAK a lot of credit for jumping on this bike and posting a very solid result. And congrats to top American Luca!

Regarding the link itself... As soon as pics of the Intense HP bike showed up, all the online engineers pointed out that the rocker would be super flexy. The guys probably noticed the flex immediately in Windrock during testing and had Jeff machine solid/beefy ones that got anodized and express shipped to Lourdes.

1
chriskief
Posts
722
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
3/28/2022 11:57am
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT...
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT (I know that will ruffle feathers) then a series of injuries and the move to Intense has just derailed it through his prime winning years.

As I said in the tech thread, it's really disappointing that the IFR guys got their bike ridiculously late. This has been a project in the works since last summer (really before that) and they don't get bikes until a couple weeks before the season?? Sorry to be harsh, but that's pathetic for a company who has inhouse frame-building capabilities. You can't be competitive at this level with a couple weeks on a bike. Look at Luca, Laurie, etc. Everyone giving them props for doing so well on a 'new bike' and they've had those bikes for 3-4 months.

Also, the interview with Jeff, on the other site... Jeff talking about how it's a work in progress and they'll be racing prototypes throughout the season because that's core "Intense" as a brand. Ummm, this is 2022, no other top riders are trying out prototype bikes all season long and tinkering. Gwin is in the last couple years of his career and he's forced to be testing out prototype bikes all year after a couple years of injuries and bikes/tires that held him back. Pretty bummer way to close out his career. Here's to hoping they can get the bike dialed in the next 6 weeks and this was just a bump in the road. I give DAK a lot of credit for jumping on this bike and posting a very solid result. And congrats to top American Luca!

Regarding the link itself... As soon as pics of the Intense HP bike showed up, all the online engineers pointed out that the rocker would be super flexy. The guys probably noticed the flex immediately in Windrock during testing and had Jeff machine solid/beefy ones that got anodized and express shipped to Lourdes.

Commencal rode prototype bikes all season long and tinkered back in... 2021.
2
3/28/2022 12:27pm
chriskief wrote:
Commencal rode prototype bikes all season long and tinkered back in... 2021.
Brands always call their un-finished bikes 'prototypes' until they're released for production. They're usually not really prototypes like these raw Intense mules. They're a stock bike with mods like a different link or something (like Finn and Loic's bikes).

The Commencal bikes you're referring to were way farther along in the process and the team riders had time to get used to them and do testing.

Also, Intense has a 6-bar bike they're going to be getting the riders soon (wasn't ready in time). So two development bikes (different designs) during the season. And nothing refined. Cool idea for a younger/development team but a mess for a rider of Gwin's caliber in the end of his productive years. Like I said, hopefully they get it back on track and crush it during the next 6 weeks.

chriskief
Posts
722
Joined
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Location
New York, NY US
3/28/2022 12:38pm
Brands always call their un-finished bikes 'prototypes' until they're released for production. They're usually not really prototypes like these raw Intense mules. They're a stock bike...
Brands always call their un-finished bikes 'prototypes' until they're released for production. They're usually not really prototypes like these raw Intense mules. They're a stock bike with mods like a different link or something (like Finn and Loic's bikes).

The Commencal bikes you're referring to were way farther along in the process and the team riders had time to get used to them and do testing.

Also, Intense has a 6-bar bike they're going to be getting the riders soon (wasn't ready in time). So two development bikes (different designs) during the season. And nothing refined. Cool idea for a younger/development team but a mess for a rider of Gwin's caliber in the end of his productive years. Like I said, hopefully they get it back on track and crush it during the next 6 weeks.

I guess Intense should have painted the frame so the bike looked "refined".



Also, Dak got 11th.
Primoz
Posts
4522
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
SI
3/28/2022 1:46pm
Young riders don't necessarily give good developmental feedback.

The Commencal prototype was way different to the final frame and they were tweaking the linkages between the races. Watch 'This Is Us' where you can see that the development process wasn't fast and easy and far from done when the team riders started riding the protos. Pompom even had a floating brake arm on one of the bikes.
1
3/28/2022 2:08pm
veefour wrote:
Are you planning on updating the title to keep the thread running after the post race stuff has finished, or do we need to start a...
Are you planning on updating the title to keep the thread running after the post race stuff has finished, or do we need to start a new one for Fort Bill?
Great idea!

I hear the midges buzzing already, Fort William is near!
Primoz
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4522
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
3/28/2022 2:29pm
Awww yeah, a whole seasons worth of posting and rambling.

For a season recap just link this thread 😂
brash
Posts
942
Joined
4/24/2019
Location
AU
3/28/2022 5:10pm Edited Date/Time 3/28/2022 5:24pm
Primoz wrote:
THe landscape of the sport is changing. The number of people running data acquisition is also on the rise, sooner or later this will become the...
THe landscape of the sport is changing. The number of people running data acquisition is also on the rise, sooner or later this will become the norm.

The same thing happened in F1 in the 80s going into the 90s. Back in the 80s a team of 10 to 20 people designed a car and they did basic testing. These days a team of 200+ people designs a car including a metric shitton of simulations of CFD, structures, performance, they simulate races on the fly, etc. etc.

It's a realistic scenario that some teams/brands will be left behind if they will not be prepared to go forward with the new paradigm.

What's it like with MX in this regard, does anyone know this?
MX/SX is higher level stuff, Multi million dollar yearly investments in R&D. Very professional and gone of the days of just relying on sheer talent, the rider, bike and team all need to be at their best to win. No more smoking ciggerattes on the start gate.

The guys in SX/MX are so burned out by their late 20's if they are successful, they will just call it quits (Dungey, Villapoto and now probably Roczen) the risk of racing at that level, the training and multi million dollar contracts for the top guys means retirement by 30 common.

But with MX, the sacrifices the kids/parents make are insane. They will be homes chooled or pulled out of school by about 12 and start getting serious about training, basically losing their childhood in a way.

Of 100 kids that forego their education, maybe 1 or 2 of those kids will make it on the pro circuit give or take!

For every Chad Reed or Lawrence brothers there is, there are countless other families risking it all for little to no outcome, it's a cut throat sport in that regard. You don't seem to see that in MTB.
1
sspomer
Posts
6040
Joined
6/26/2009
Location
Boise, ID US
3/28/2022 6:09pm
Sven_Claas wrote:
Great idea!

I hear the midges buzzing already, Fort William is near!
if you want to change this back to lourdes and make a new one for ft bill, go for it. i can make the new one too, either way. having this go on for the whole season would be painful LOL for anyone starting at the beginning.

thanks for kicking it off, too!

jsg04
Posts
2
Joined
12/3/2009
Location
MD US
3/28/2022 6:52pm
sspomer wrote:
we stopped ews slideshows after 2019 (exception of finale 2020). no DH shows this year unfortunately. it was my decision. we were going to stop last...
we stopped ews slideshows after 2019 (exception of finale 2020). no DH shows this year unfortunately. it was my decision. we were going to stop last year, then tried a single wrap-up show after the race. i know there are you uber-core fans out there, but the interest (views) was extremely disappointing. the format is just too clunky/old anymore and there's so much competing for our attention that it didn't make sense for us. sorry, flame on.
I also want to thank you guys for the slideshows over the years and to let you know how much I enjoyed them. I always loved when the background music would crank up and the slides with audio interviews. They will be fondly remembered up there with Litter Mag Off Track Betting...
2
w4s
Posts
275
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Verdi, NV US
3/28/2022 7:13pm
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT...
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT (I know that will ruffle feathers) then a series of injuries and the move to Intense has just derailed it through his prime winning years.

As I said in the tech thread, it's really disappointing that the IFR guys got their bike ridiculously late. This has been a project in the works since last summer (really before that) and they don't get bikes until a couple weeks before the season?? Sorry to be harsh, but that's pathetic for a company who has inhouse frame-building capabilities. You can't be competitive at this level with a couple weeks on a bike. Look at Luca, Laurie, etc. Everyone giving them props for doing so well on a 'new bike' and they've had those bikes for 3-4 months.

Also, the interview with Jeff, on the other site... Jeff talking about how it's a work in progress and they'll be racing prototypes throughout the season because that's core "Intense" as a brand. Ummm, this is 2022, no other top riders are trying out prototype bikes all season long and tinkering. Gwin is in the last couple years of his career and he's forced to be testing out prototype bikes all year after a couple years of injuries and bikes/tires that held him back. Pretty bummer way to close out his career. Here's to hoping they can get the bike dialed in the next 6 weeks and this was just a bump in the road. I give DAK a lot of credit for jumping on this bike and posting a very solid result. And congrats to top American Luca!

Regarding the link itself... As soon as pics of the Intense HP bike showed up, all the online engineers pointed out that the rocker would be super flexy. The guys probably noticed the flex immediately in Windrock during testing and had Jeff machine solid/beefy ones that got anodized and express shipped to Lourdes.

Maybe Gwin doesn't care as much about winning as he does about developing a bike, brand, and a team. Nothing wrong with that, he's still one of the best to ever ride a bike. And maybe he even finds his mojo to go crazy fast again, he's still got years.
1
chriskief
Posts
722
Joined
4/15/2017
Location
New York, NY US
3/28/2022 7:21pm
w4s wrote:
Maybe Gwin doesn't care as much about winning as he does about developing a bike, brand, and a team. Nothing wrong with that, he's still one...
Maybe Gwin doesn't care as much about winning as he does about developing a bike, brand, and a team. Nothing wrong with that, he's still one of the best to ever ride a bike. And maybe he even finds his mojo to go crazy fast again, he's still got years.
Doubtful… he’s doing a video series called “Going For Six”.
4
w4s
Posts
275
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Location
Verdi, NV US
3/28/2022 7:52pm
w4s wrote:
Maybe Gwin doesn't care as much about winning as he does about developing a bike, brand, and a team. Nothing wrong with that, he's still one...
Maybe Gwin doesn't care as much about winning as he does about developing a bike, brand, and a team. Nothing wrong with that, he's still one of the best to ever ride a bike. And maybe he even finds his mojo to go crazy fast again, he's still got years.
chriskief wrote:
Doubtful… he’s doing a video series called “Going For Six”.
Doubtful… he’s doing a video series called “Going For Six”.
what do you think he's going to name it, "I have to produce an income by sharing the secrets that made me a millionaire downhill rider"? You think Greg Minnaar ever made a video that said "I have to develop a new bike, team, so forgive me for a couple years bad results"? I'm sure he's trying to be the best, he once was the best. Guy's wearing a lot of hats, maybe if he removes a couple of those hats....

but yeah, I don't think anybody can match the batshit crazy riding that Amaury and Thibault want to push.
2
JamesR_2026
Posts
126
Joined
11/15/2017
Location
Bondi Beach AU
3/28/2022 8:08pm
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT...
To throw in a follow-up on the IFR / Gwin situation. It's really sad in a way. The dude was on track to be the GOAT (I know that will ruffle feathers) then a series of injuries and the move to Intense has just derailed it through his prime winning years.

As I said in the tech thread, it's really disappointing that the IFR guys got their bike ridiculously late. This has been a project in the works since last summer (really before that) and they don't get bikes until a couple weeks before the season?? Sorry to be harsh, but that's pathetic for a company who has inhouse frame-building capabilities. You can't be competitive at this level with a couple weeks on a bike. Look at Luca, Laurie, etc. Everyone giving them props for doing so well on a 'new bike' and they've had those bikes for 3-4 months.

Also, the interview with Jeff, on the other site... Jeff talking about how it's a work in progress and they'll be racing prototypes throughout the season because that's core "Intense" as a brand. Ummm, this is 2022, no other top riders are trying out prototype bikes all season long and tinkering. Gwin is in the last couple years of his career and he's forced to be testing out prototype bikes all year after a couple years of injuries and bikes/tires that held him back. Pretty bummer way to close out his career. Here's to hoping they can get the bike dialed in the next 6 weeks and this was just a bump in the road. I give DAK a lot of credit for jumping on this bike and posting a very solid result. And congrats to top American Luca!

Regarding the link itself... As soon as pics of the Intense HP bike showed up, all the online engineers pointed out that the rocker would be super flexy. The guys probably noticed the flex immediately in Windrock during testing and had Jeff machine solid/beefy ones that got anodized and express shipped to Lourdes.

I think you need to at least wait until after Fort Bill to judge how IFR and the new bike are going.
Lots of top guys and teams were a bit off the pace at Lourdes and there's a big break now to sort out the details.
Gwin looked happy and confident in the pre race interviews, but he didn't get a lot of time on the hill and his practice crash looked like a stinger.
Dak did pretty well on the new bike, so it doesn't suck.
chriskief
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722
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New York, NY US
3/28/2022 8:14pm
w4s wrote:
what do you think he's going to name it, "I have to produce an income by sharing the secrets that made me a millionaire downhill rider"...
what do you think he's going to name it, "I have to produce an income by sharing the secrets that made me a millionaire downhill rider"? You think Greg Minnaar ever made a video that said "I have to develop a new bike, team, so forgive me for a couple years bad results"? I'm sure he's trying to be the best, he once was the best. Guy's wearing a lot of hats, maybe if he removes a couple of those hats....

but yeah, I don't think anybody can match the batshit crazy riding that Amaury and Thibault want to push.
Pretty sure the guy wants to win races again. Otherwise why do a video series about winning? Could have gone the Neko route if his focus was team / bike development.

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