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Portland, OR
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Edited Date/Time
12/9/2015 5:15pm
Watching this sweet PNW shred vid from Brian Chapel in Bellingham got me thinking-
With the ability to go between 650b+ and 29", and with longer travel 29'ers coming down the pipe, could these wheels/bikes bring a broader range of riding and trails to the masses and provide a single chassis, do-it-all Endurbro racing machine of the future?
Here's a recent GMBN presented by Neil "The Don" Donoghue, doing back-to-back timed trail laps on a 650b and 650b+ Scott Genius LT, showing the + bikes can be faster.
What's your opinion or experience regarding + bikes?
With the ability to go between 650b+ and 29", and with longer travel 29'ers coming down the pipe, could these wheels/bikes bring a broader range of riding and trails to the masses and provide a single chassis, do-it-all Endurbro racing machine of the future?
Here's a recent GMBN presented by Neil "The Don" Donoghue, doing back-to-back timed trail laps on a 650b and 650b+ Scott Genius LT, showing the + bikes can be faster.
What's your opinion or experience regarding + bikes?
Remember when you get a new bike and everything seems so much better, railing corners, charging rough stuff etc. but now the times when riding gets fun is when you start to wash out, land a little nose heavy, etc. eventually plus bikes stop feeling like you can corner on rails and now to feel on the edge of control you will be going faster and making it more dangerous. Just my .02
i think + will be a significant portion of the market in the future because they will ride well for most average people who try them. i think the potential of being able to put 27.5+ in a 29er chassis is novel, but i doubt many people would have dual setups. there are a lot of new 29ers on the way though and that hook of optional wheel size may play into the offerings.
product managers, engineers and designers at legit brands are usually pretty f'ing fast, serious riders and most i've talked to seem to say they have a lot of fun on + bikes, but wouldn't ride them exclusively. so i don't think there's any worry that "regular" wheels/tires are going away.
When I was "just cruising" they were quite comfortable and the traction was good. For folks who don't care much for hauling ass, or have a lot of ground to cover at a moderate pace where comfort is the most important, they might be a fun way to increase enjoyment. That's the "good."
My takeaway is that they make more sense on a hardtail. You're getting the benefit of the fat tires without as much of the weight penalty, it is a much more noticeable improvement. Full suspension just felt vague and slow to me.
They will be great at lower speeds and help beginners ride tech stuff easier, but they have this kind of effect at high speed:
In the primordial days of MTB, people could be witnessed racing for pot down MT. Tamalpais on cruiser-like, self made, batmobiles of cycling at the time. This was achieved by taking cruisers with quote unquote "Balloon tires" and coaster brakes down steep fire roads. Some people in the day also slapped derailleurs on those beasts.
Anywho, the flagship ideology that mountain biking is founded on would be big tires that conquer mountainous terrain. This was true in the beginning, and will have a firm grasp to the end in my opinion. Thinking back now to maybe like 15 years ago, even aggro mountain bikes were still hardtails with like 70 ml stems and 2.0 inch tires. The biggest point would be emphasis on priorities. Given the technology at the time, tires were the mountain conquering tool mainly besides a Rock Shox Judy or something.
Today, we feature the age of suspension. Kick ass suspension that enables trail bikes to rival their bigger DH brothers. This is cool, and in a perfect world I would get an S-Works Enduro with carbon wheels. In the mean time, it might make more sense for me as a broke bike bum to invest technology and money in tires to vanquish mountainous obstacles. As a manufacturer of mountain bikes in the near future, it may make sense to adopt this 650+/29er standard and regular 650b for enduroers. What's wrong with this you ask?
Has everyone forgotten the 26"!? Hopefully not, because on that fateful day, my dirtjump hardtail will be completely null in all relevance to MTB. I foresee a narrowing of the market for tire and wheel options in the near future for my favorite bike. HAHA, I don't think that day will come, but scary I know right?
All in all, I'll try to safely assume you won't be dropping in on Dirt Merchant with dropper bars like the select minority of today. Let's all get together as fatty tire mountain conquerors, (give or take 3/4 of an inch), and just shred as hard as we can.
http://psbmx.com/2015/08/30/cyclocross-on-dirt-merchant/
I dont envisage using the plus size all year round. My perception is that 'normal' size tyres will be quicker and ride better overall than plus during good weather months, but I may be proved wrong.
DJ, slope and some freeride will always be done on 26". I do dirt jump on my slack 650b trail bike but it's better on my 26" DJ. Horses for courses pure and simple.
The argument over 26 vs 29, 27.5 vs 26, boost this boost that. This and that is driving me nuts.
For those who just hate how technology advances and wants things to remain the same for all of time they should in fact just quit. Whether you or I like it or not, technology will always move forward.
Let time prove technology that isn't an improvement. If you look at bikes from a decade ago or two they're much different than they are today. Would anyone here buy a 1999 all mountain/DH rig and race it hard against riders with modern components and geometry bikes and put their money where their mouth is?
Will plus size tires take over? Who knows, but I will say this...they're here to stay.
I just bought a brand new 2016 bike and no it's not a plus bike but I couldn't care less. I'm going to have fun riding REGARDLESS.
As far as plus taking over goes I'm not so sure...for me the moment when I knew for sure that 650b was here to stay was when the DH racers started using them...I just can't imagine anyone winning a WC on plus tyres. That's not to say they don't have their merits (or maybe they don't, I dunno yet!) but I can't see them becoming the new norm.
This makes me think plus size bikes are here to stay.
Also, "can't believe..." perhaps due to the initial impression that it's going to suck.
I've been of the basically uninformed opinion that plus bikes are or will be for n00bs getting into the sport. I am starting to think that's probably a misbegotten belief. But let's just see where this goes. After all, this midfat thing does NOT break my "What would a dirt bike do?" rule for mountain bike innovation. (i.e. would a dirt bike use rim brakes? would a dirt bike use suspension front and rear? would a dirt bike use one gear and narrow bars? would a dirt bike have a long stable wheelbase or a short/stubby/twitchy wheelbase?) There is a sweet spot for tire width for our beloved MTBs. Maybe this midfat thing is challenging that notion as reasonably-light tires with durable casings on wide rims are developed. As Colin pointed out, wide tires were sh*t years ago. I owned 'em - Colin, you probably remember those days.
On to the future! I just picked up a '16 Remedy 29 and I can't deny I thought of trying some plus wheels after reading this thread. (But damnit now I have to find some Boost hubs!) Also I am going to put my hands on a Devinci Hendrix soon. I'm curious how it rides compared to my sub 30# wagon wheeler.
Let me say, I'm glad I did. It's not lame at all, although it's certainly different. This winter has been uncharacteristically void of snow, but it's still been a sloppy, wet fall. I was out last week on the fatty, and had an absolute blast on my local trails. If I'd been on my trail bike, no way I would have been trucking through the slop... I would have been stopped as often as I'd have been moving forward. Instead I was blasting through muddy turns and up and down muddy hills with a giant grin on my face. Plus, riding a rigid bike again has been nice, getting back to a super responsive feel has been a good thing after riding suspension bikes for years.
How does this relate to + bikes? As I said, riding a fat bike is very different from riding my trail bike. Ideally, I think + is the right balance between my fat bike and my trail bike, especially a hard tail. It'd be just a little bit more snappy, a little easier on the climbs, and still adept at dealing with less than optimal "standard" biking conditions. Since + bikes are just getting onto the scene, it'll probably be a few years before I get one (I got my '14 Charge Cooker second hand for 800 essentially new, hard to find a + bike used for that much), but I think it's something I could absolutely get into.
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