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7
Joined
3/14/2012
Location
Orangevale, CA
US
Edited Date/Time
8/18/2014 12:35pm
I recently saw the slide show and sound recording of Fabien Barel discussing his new Canyon bike and setup. He had some interesting things to say about bar height (risers and stack height). Basically, he said that in his experience and contrary to popular belief a taller stack height and riser helps him keep the front end down. I've always heard the opposite, that you want low bars so that your weight is over the front tire.
Interview with Fabien: http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Pro-Bike-Check-Fabien-Barels-Ca…
Obviously there is a threshold were too low is bad or too high is equally bad, but what have you found to be true in your experience? I've found that I tend to be more comfortable and playfull with slightly higher bars, meaning a few spacers and a little rise on my handle bars. I recently put atlas bars and stem (50 mm and a slight rise) with one spacer. I was thinking about getting bars with a slight rise. Im 6'4" riding an xl enduro. Thoughts?
Interview with Fabien: http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/Pro-Bike-Check-Fabien-Barels-Ca…
Obviously there is a threshold were too low is bad or too high is equally bad, but what have you found to be true in your experience? I've found that I tend to be more comfortable and playfull with slightly higher bars, meaning a few spacers and a little rise on my handle bars. I recently put atlas bars and stem (50 mm and a slight rise) with one spacer. I was thinking about getting bars with a slight rise. Im 6'4" riding an xl enduro. Thoughts?
i just recently got back into pedal bikes and im riding all mnt on a gaint reign xo..my buddy who designs bikes/suspension set it up and i was surprised to see he had a few spacers under a slightly longer stem..very similar to fabiens setup...
ive ridden it a few times and ive been thinking that i should get a short stem and lower it..listening to that is giving me second thoughts..FB knows how to setup a bike..ive ridden one of his protoype stab primos and the thing railed...
Anybody know how tall Fabien Barel is?
Just a quick history. I recently got a shorter stem and moved my seat forward. I loved these changes to the cockpit. Everything felt soo much better. I have also been playing with my rear suspension mount. I was able to slacken the head angle. Again, it felt way good. So now I change the bars and loose the rise and all of the sudden it doesnt feel right anymore. Just trying to get to the bottom of it.
BTW. Ive decided to keep my flat bars and give them a try. I did a few laps on Saturday and it actually felt better than before. Maybe I just need more time in the saddle to get comfortable with the new change.
Fabien is a wizard, if feels and believes that high rise really gives you an advantage and if its where he finds zen, thats optimal. You just gotta find that height/posture on the bike where you can put the most pressure into the tires and still remain in a natural feeling position.
my 2c
My current set up on my Undead, is a bar height of 42 1/4" (ground to center of bar) with the bike in the "slack" position and a HA of ~62º. I'm 5'10" p.s.
There is a point when the bars can get too high and one looses leverage and the ability to really pull up on the bike.
pascal, the ultimate flat pedal rider also has the ultimate high bar set up.
It is true that it will depend on body height, arm length and all that, so in the end it's a matter of testing and choosing the setup that will allow the best control on weight distribution.
For me personally I have had bikes where I raise my bar height and bikes where they are slammed, it all depends on the geometry of the frame esp. the BB height in relation to my bars. The space between my feet and my hands has to feel right or I move my bars up or down until it does.
He's 5'11" (1m82).
it's good that i still have some steerer tube space to adjust my bar height and test the settings.
Whether you chose to weight the front of the bike or not (your style) everything needs to start off in a neutral and balanced position (that means a balanced core) with your weight on your legs (your legs support your body mass, supply balance, and really are what should be powering and controlling the bike) and off of your arms (your arms are great at small yet precise movements--manipulations of bike--but crappy at balance and power (compared to legs), and they don't work well when they are weighted down).
To provide this position--a balance and stable core--you basically have to be half-way through a squat and half-way through a push-up. Now you are able to react, pro-act, etc. Any decent motocross school and/or decent MTB skills instruction should teach this (this is also body movement 101).
Bars too far forward (too low--away from you) means giving up the bend in your arms (range of motion) and your weight will end up tossed (bucked) forward onto your hands (if your arms are already straight, and your front wheel has to drop a foot, your core is going forward, too). Bad news. Too high and your arms will be all cramped up/bunched up in your chest and you won't be able to manipulate the bike effectively, thus you'll start to lean back to to retain a better position and then you'll be too far off the back. (Muscles function the best when the muscle belly is half-way contracted--thus, half push-up, half squat is most effective athletic position for the human body)
So where's this (half push-up, half squat) put your bars? That's the proper height. And, obviously, that can't be perfect all the time because your core should have a dynamic relationship with your bike: supper-duper steeps, they may be a bit too low; a fairly flat and flowy track, now they may be a bit too high. Nothing wrong with making adjustments depending on where you ride, and the difference between even 5 mm can really be felt if you're in tune with your rig. 15, 20 mm's is a huge difference.
Go watch some vid of the top guys--DH or moto-- and this is exactly what you'll see (Gwin and Dungey, great examples).
Really, it doesn't START at the bars, but more like where do the bars END UP when you're in good position on the bike.
In the effort to be a better rider, I try to manipulate my bike and make it do the things *I* want. I'm controlling the bike, not the other way around.
With a long and low stem, how are you ever going to get your weight back far enough, with enough leverage, to manipulate and lift the front end quickly and easily? Manualing and weight transfer all have to do with the ratio between the chainstay length and BB to grip centerline distance/height.
Me, I run a short stem to help get my weight back and keep the front light when I want, and a little more height on the bars to let me quickly snap the front end with more leverage. I also ride large or XL frames(cut seat tube if I can) although I'm only 5'10".
@ cuban B: Yeah, MTB has been about identity crisis from the get-go: Well, it was great and unique at first: a bunch of stoners driving around the country in crappy Ford Econolines and racing kooky bikes in the mountains and woods... AND, xc, dh and ds with an overall winner!!!! That was the shit!!!
Then XC'ers wanted to be roadies, DH's wanted to be motocrossers (O.K., guilty), dirt jumpers wanted to be BMX'ers, and street riding mountain bikers (oxymoron) wanted to be roller-bladers.
Maybe we've come full circle w/ this enduro-thing(?). Hopefully.
I wonder if the new look at bar height is in relation to riding styles moving more into pumping, popping and directing the bike through terrain, rather than more of the low and fast style of the past.
Higher bars are easier to pop the bike up, but also probably more comfortable to stuff the front tire into the ground when coming back down (with fork compressing added in)
That and head tubes are getting really getting shorter on the latest frames.
P
its definitely true that modern parts and geometry reflect popular riding styles and formats. I think the point that filthyanimal made in his first post - in terms of where the bars end up - is most relevant. I hope in the near future there will be an app/program for a DH/enduro specific geometry, much like roadies have for making custom frames. Only, for Mtb'ers, the variable parameters would have less to do with the tube lengths on the frame and more to do with component placement (bar height/width, crank length, stem length, saddle position) given body measurements. that'd be sweet. those mtb training companies should look into that.
When your setup is dialed, you will know. You can't fake comfortable.
There are SO MANY other variables involved that make it impossible to say one setup is better than the other. And every rider is unique in their skill set and style. This is one of the most fascinating things about mountain biking to me. Very different than something like moto which you would think would be so similar. Rider input has such a dramatic effect on the bike and setup.
In my experience the biggest mistake is running your bars too low to gain control, or front end traction. If your front end is too low, you will subconsciously try to push away from the bars. Which in turn affect's the rest of your body's kinematics and ability to react. As noted in a previous project I was involved in - This will lead you to 'be at the end of your rope' and prevent you from recourse in surprise event. Which as we all know is a regular experience when mountain biking.
Don't try to emulate someone else's setup because it works for them. Find what works for you, and what makes you most comfortable. Within reason of course.
Another thing to note - Bar width affects how your body is positioned over the bars. The higher you go, the wider you should go. And vice versa.
Most important - Experiment with your setup and get to know what the differences are.
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