Future Bikes and Ideas

monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US

Alright. I wanna pick some brains a little. Back in the day, Wakidesigns, a user on pinkbike, made his own post discussing his drawn design of a bike that he saw as futuristic. This post was in 2014. He wrote that the bike would have active suspension that can be adjusted via a screen mounted on/in the frame. Now I chuckle at this because it was suppose to be a wild take on a bike. The geometry was suppose to be big, the electronic suspension idea was to make you say “yeah sure whatever”. But, the bike is actually not far off at all from what we currently have from some companies. Now, what we do not have in this post, yet, is a single sided swing arm bike and an updated long travel Lefty fork (cmon Cannondale. Do it.) I remember seeing this bike in 2014 and thinking it looked so cool but it would maybe be 2035 by the time we had the stuff Waki talked about. Now Im thinking next year. If a company released this bike like this, would it bother you?

Personally integrated suspension electronics scares me. But the rest, Id try it out.  

3
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cane
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Belgrade RS
4/16/2024 9:49pm
cane wrote:

image-20240417064719-1

Allen Millyard dh1 gearbox singlesided bike from I think 2002....

2
cane
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Belgrade RS
4/16/2024 9:55pm

Bionicon system, something like active suspension....

1
cane
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Belgrade RS
4/16/2024 10:07pm

Now there are some old-new ideas which are promising: Motion ride(engineering) single sided linkage fork+low pressure shock, Kamemo low pressure shock....there are some very good produsts right now, like Pinion smart.shift, Bmc autodrop semi automatic/automatic dropper post, Eightpins integrated dropper post, Aenomaly products Switchgrade saddle angle adjuster, three axle suspended seat etc. But somebody must integrate all this things in one meaningful, logical, usable solution.

 
1
4/16/2024 11:09pm Edited Date/Time 4/16/2024 11:10pm
Alright. I wanna pick some brains a little. Back in the day, Wakidesigns, a user on pinkbike, made his own post discussing his drawn design of...

Alright. I wanna pick some brains a little. Back in the day, Wakidesigns, a user on pinkbike, made his own post discussing his drawn design of a bike that he saw as futuristic. This post was in 2014. He wrote that the bike would have active suspension that can be adjusted via a screen mounted on/in the frame. Now I chuckle at this because it was suppose to be a wild take on a bike. The geometry was suppose to be big, the electronic suspension idea was to make you say “yeah sure whatever”. But, the bike is actually not far off at all from what we currently have from some companies. Now, what we do not have in this post, yet, is a single sided swing arm bike and an updated long travel Lefty fork (cmon Cannondale. Do it.) I remember seeing this bike in 2014 and thinking it looked so cool but it would maybe be 2035 by the time we had the stuff Waki talked about. Now Im thinking next year. If a company released this bike like this, would it bother you?

Personally integrated suspension electronics scares me. But the rest, Id try it out.  

Waki was more steam punk than anything lol. The shit he used to type out was crazy.

3
Nico_Hrndz
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FR
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4/17/2024 12:57am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 1:05am
cane wrote:
Now there are some old-new ideas which are promising: Motion ride(engineering) single sided linkage fork+low pressure shock, Kamemo low pressure shock....there are some very good produsts...

Now there are some old-new ideas which are promising: Motion ride(engineering) single sided linkage fork+low pressure shock, Kamemo low pressure shock....there are some very good produsts right now, like Pinion smart.shift, Bmc autodrop semi automatic/automatic dropper post, Eightpins integrated dropper post, Aenomaly products Switchgrade saddle angle adjuster, three axle suspended seat etc. But somebody must integrate all this things in one meaningful, logical, usable solution.

 

It would be  a nice bike to see for sure. I think there are some very local initiatives for that, boosted by circular economy and sustainable development -the German bike market is a good example for shared perspectives and innovations I suppose w/ Intend, Actofive, Liteville, 8Pins, Pinion, Nicolai... 
 

Regarding these ideas there's a lot going on here in France -mostly with urban bikes stuff but still, very good ideas to share. 

- Ultima bike with thermoinjected recycled plastic frame (kinda reminds me of GG's process) + Motion forks + Valeo/ Effigear motor & gearbox combo and I think Baramind bars 
- Ref bikes with modular frames 

There's kind of a cluster here in Lyon and the area and it looks like most of those companies try to work together and improve their products alongside. That's a nice thing to see as a concerned  and passionate consumer.

Edit: that Kamemo Onyx Deep bike with USD fork is niiiiice, didn't know about them (I got that Lahar feeling))

3
veefour
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GB
4/17/2024 1:54am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 2:49am

If it doesn't come with a 14 speed cassette I'm not interested.Laughing

As a side note Allen Millyard is now regularly to be seen on a UK TV show where he uses his engineering prowess working on old bikes and cars. You also get to see his 8000cc 500bhp V10 motor cycle (Dodge Viper engine, nuts)!

4
4/17/2024 2:43am

If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a self-learning and adjusting suspension and transmission. The suspension would monitor what you are doing and adjust itself to have an optimal setup for you liking. The transmission would also know you habits and would detect when it's time to shift. I'd also like see some miniature power power generator to get rid of batteries that need to be recharged separately.  

I still want to haven an efficient gearbox that sits in the bottom bracket area and that doesn't break like some other stuff that's currently out there.

And ergonomics/bike fitting. We finally need geometry that resembles our body proportions.

1
fartsack
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咸興市 KP
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4/17/2024 3:56am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 4:01am
Milton 26" wrote:
If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a...

If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a self-learning and adjusting suspension and transmission. The suspension would monitor what you are doing and adjust itself to have an optimal setup for you liking. The transmission would also know you habits and would detect when it's time to shift. I'd also like see some miniature power power generator to get rid of batteries that need to be recharged separately.  

I still want to haven an efficient gearbox that sits in the bottom bracket area and that doesn't break like some other stuff that's currently out there.

And ergonomics/bike fitting. We finally need geometry that resembles our body proportions.

THANK YOU! Smile

In times where everything unnecessairy gets replaced by AI, why not the suspension setting? 80% of riders have their settings somwhere between utter BS and mildly acceptable anyway. Base factory setting works for most riders, your suspension will learn YOUR base setting withing a couple of rides.

Completely different trail conditions or you're tired? I'm sure your bike would notice before you do and adapt settings without you even noticing.

As long as it's not automatic and selflearning where is the point? Wink Same goes for paper and pen vs. tablett. It's the process that should be modernised not the tool.

Shifting, finally someone with the same opinion : i'd love to have the shifting automatic.

since the shifting process doesn't add any value to my riding experience why should i bother? Does braking? Absolutely, braking later, braking for fun, fine tuning the riding through braking is a big part of my actual riding. The shifting however not at all. i just shift to get up a hill. tired? shift.

fiddling with suspension is something i like but having it automatic would definately be easier. same with pizza: i love making pizza, take my time for the dough and precook the tomatosauce etc. takes time, is delicous, is fun, is cheap.

or i could order some pizza. no time, delicious (depends), no fun, expensive.

1
4/17/2024 5:14am
Milton 26" wrote:
If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a...

If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a self-learning and adjusting suspension and transmission. The suspension would monitor what you are doing and adjust itself to have an optimal setup for you liking. The transmission would also know you habits and would detect when it's time to shift. I'd also like see some miniature power power generator to get rid of batteries that need to be recharged separately.  

I still want to haven an efficient gearbox that sits in the bottom bracket area and that doesn't break like some other stuff that's currently out there.

And ergonomics/bike fitting. We finally need geometry that resembles our body proportions.

fartsack wrote:
THANK YOU! :) In times where everything unnecessairy gets replaced by AI, why not the suspension setting? 80% of riders have their settings somwhere between utter...

THANK YOU! Smile

In times where everything unnecessairy gets replaced by AI, why not the suspension setting? 80% of riders have their settings somwhere between utter BS and mildly acceptable anyway. Base factory setting works for most riders, your suspension will learn YOUR base setting withing a couple of rides.

Completely different trail conditions or you're tired? I'm sure your bike would notice before you do and adapt settings without you even noticing.

As long as it's not automatic and selflearning where is the point? Wink Same goes for paper and pen vs. tablett. It's the process that should be modernised not the tool.

Shifting, finally someone with the same opinion : i'd love to have the shifting automatic.

since the shifting process doesn't add any value to my riding experience why should i bother? Does braking? Absolutely, braking later, braking for fun, fine tuning the riding through braking is a big part of my actual riding. The shifting however not at all. i just shift to get up a hill. tired? shift.

fiddling with suspension is something i like but having it automatic would definately be easier. same with pizza: i love making pizza, take my time for the dough and precook the tomatosauce etc. takes time, is delicous, is fun, is cheap.

or i could order some pizza. no time, delicious (depends), no fun, expensive.

As it happens, I'm a mechanical engineer and also an aspiring machine learning engineer, it would be so sick to work on something like that. Make things that are annoying (or do not add value to the experience) so smart that they just do their job somewhere in the background and completely disappear from your attention is an application for ml that makes a lot of sense. 

SteveClimber
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Perth, WA AU
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4/17/2024 6:08am

Let's get rid of air springs and spring springs. The future is electromagnetic suspension ala the Bose car suspension they briefly made ages ago. 

I think materials science will have a lot to say about future bikes and definitely manufacturing methods. 

ABS is already starting development, it's likely that will rapidly progress, and when it does traction control for e-bikes will be right there. 

Wheels still brake often, let's fix those. 

1
4/17/2024 6:17am
Let's get rid of air springs and spring springs. The future is electromagnetic suspension ala the Bose car suspension they briefly made ages ago.  I think...

Let's get rid of air springs and spring springs. The future is electromagnetic suspension ala the Bose car suspension they briefly made ages ago. 

I think materials science will have a lot to say about future bikes and definitely manufacturing methods. 

ABS is already starting development, it's likely that will rapidly progress, and when it does traction control for e-bikes will be right there. 

Wheels still brake often, let's fix those. 

By the way. How about damping using Lenz's law, there are lots of cool videos on YT (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0amdIcZt5I). You could probably manipulate the damping curve using electric circuits. That could be completely passive and you could even charge stuff with it. 

ahleic09
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Location
North Conway, NH US
4/17/2024 6:29am

I would like tuned disc rotors. If my brakes are going to make noise I’d love it to be something fun. I’m thinking “sheeeeesh” or fart noises 

1
monarchmason
Posts
106
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Location
Nevada City, CA US
4/17/2024 6:49am
Milton 26" wrote:
If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a...

If we have to deal with electronics on a bike, it should be integrated so that it makes my life easier. I can definitely see a self-learning and adjusting suspension and transmission. The suspension would monitor what you are doing and adjust itself to have an optimal setup for you liking. The transmission would also know you habits and would detect when it's time to shift. I'd also like see some miniature power power generator to get rid of batteries that need to be recharged separately.  

I still want to haven an efficient gearbox that sits in the bottom bracket area and that doesn't break like some other stuff that's currently out there.

And ergonomics/bike fitting. We finally need geometry that resembles our body proportions.

This is something that I read and I have to bite my cheek. Sounds out there, but the reality is, its a few years. To where it begins in a smooth way. 

monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
4/17/2024 6:57am
Let's get rid of air springs and spring springs. The future is electromagnetic suspension ala the Bose car suspension they briefly made ages ago.  I think...

Let's get rid of air springs and spring springs. The future is electromagnetic suspension ala the Bose car suspension they briefly made ages ago. 

I think materials science will have a lot to say about future bikes and definitely manufacturing methods. 

ABS is already starting development, it's likely that will rapidly progress, and when it does traction control for e-bikes will be right there. 

Wheels still brake often, let's fix those. 

Materials will definitely be the future. When WTBs satellite office was in my town, I remember seeing their prototype magnesium rims. They were like tan cream colored. Suuuper light but not very durable as materials go. I dont know if anyone else had thought of it, but it had me excited for the future.

monarchmason
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4/17/2024 7:03am
ahleic09 wrote:
I would like tuned disc rotors. If my brakes are going to make noise I’d love it to be something fun. I’m thinking “sheeeeesh” or fart...

I would like tuned disc rotors. If my brakes are going to make noise I’d love it to be something fun. I’m thinking “sheeeeesh” or fart noises 

Ah, my choice would be an Owen Wilson saying “Wow”. I like this completely unnecessary idea.

5
iforte312
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Minneapolis, MN US
4/17/2024 7:58am

The only thing I really want for the future, besides a gearbox, is linkage front suspension (yup, I'm one of those guys).  Structure cycles has it right, especially because they use off the shelf shocks, not proprietary headaches.

1
1
J-dub146
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orem, UT US
4/17/2024 10:34am

Weight savings with future breakthroughs of materials and removing the unsprung mass in the rear triangle

2
monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
4/17/2024 10:55am
iforte312 wrote:
The only thing I really want for the future, besides a gearbox, is linkage front suspension (yup, I'm one of those guys).  Structure cycles has it...

The only thing I really want for the future, besides a gearbox, is linkage front suspension (yup, I'm one of those guys).  Structure cycles has it right, especially because they use off the shelf shocks, not proprietary headaches.

I can agree. Refined gear boxes would have me sold. I dont know if the cable connection causes problems but it makes me wonder if we could use Eagle shifters to connect to a simple gear box and it would make it ride better. (Ive never ridden one btw. Just going off what I know. 
 

Id also be interested in trying a solid linkage fork. I think the Lefty was really cool. Unfortunately looks dictate so much for others. Although this Waki design of one is not bad. image-20240417105540-1

1
veefour
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GB
4/17/2024 2:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 2:18pm
ahleic09 wrote:
I would like tuned disc rotors. If my brakes are going to make noise I’d love it to be something fun. I’m thinking “sheeeeesh” or fart...

I would like tuned disc rotors. If my brakes are going to make noise I’d love it to be something fun. I’m thinking “sheeeeesh” or fart noises 

Ah, my choice would be an Owen Wilson saying “Wow”. I like this completely unnecessary idea.

This could work for me too. Not being much of a fan just imagine how much quicker I'd get.

Or I could get them tuned to sound like Adam Sandler and enter World Cups.Laughing

Big Bird
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Oceano, CA US
4/17/2024 3:59pm

I had a linkage design that got away... I was working in motorcycles at the time and seeing the new BMW's with linkage front ends. So drew up a bike design and was on top of the world thinking that I had the next big thing in my pocket. Then I saw the cover of Mountain Bike Action the next day and there was my bike with the name Whyte on it. Damn.

1
daway
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Bellevue, WA US
4/17/2024 7:25pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 7:30pm

Bring back (reliable) external fork travel adjustment (u-turn, 2-step, or Talas) with some kind of rear shock adjustment (Canyon shapeshifter, or just multiple shock mounts).

Sometimes I want a 170ish mm enduro feel, sometimes I want a 140ish mm trail feel. Often I end up using very similar parts for either build on separate frames...one frame and fork that just worked would be rad.

There are frames out there that fit the bill with adjustable dropouts, linkages, etc., just no mass-produced travel-adjust forks. 

But man even just the fork, cranking the u-turn down on my Santa Cruz Blur 4x made that bike so versatile! Especially on a hardtail...still miss my Transition Vagrant with a Fox Talas...

1
boozed
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AU
4/17/2024 8:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 8:58pm

I won't shit up the thread with AI generated nonsense but by coincidence the other day I asked Google Gemini to create a futuristic mountain bike concept and it filled in the front triangle then removed the seatpost.  Levitating saddles are the future.

monarchmason
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Nevada City, CA US
4/17/2024 8:55pm
daway wrote:
Bring back (reliable) external fork travel adjustment (u-turn, 2-step, or Talas) with some kind of rear shock adjustment (Canyon shapeshifter, or just multiple shock mounts). Sometimes...

Bring back (reliable) external fork travel adjustment (u-turn, 2-step, or Talas) with some kind of rear shock adjustment (Canyon shapeshifter, or just multiple shock mounts).

Sometimes I want a 170ish mm enduro feel, sometimes I want a 140ish mm trail feel. Often I end up using very similar parts for either build on separate frames...one frame and fork that just worked would be rad.

There are frames out there that fit the bill with adjustable dropouts, linkages, etc., just no mass-produced travel-adjust forks. 

But man even just the fork, cranking the u-turn down on my Santa Cruz Blur 4x made that bike so versatile! Especially on a hardtail...still miss my Transition Vagrant with a Fox Talas...

I can agree to this. Decreasing the fork travel from 160-140 on my old Giant Reign made climbing roads so much less of a drag. Like I did not feel like I was on a 160mm bike anymore. I felt like I was on a 130mm bike. Im glad I was one of the lucky few who did not experiences problems with my Talas though. 

1
NotMeAtAll
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BR
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4/25/2024 5:50am
iforte312 wrote:
The only thing I really want for the future, besides a gearbox, is linkage front suspension (yup, I'm one of those guys).  Structure cycles has it...

The only thing I really want for the future, besides a gearbox, is linkage front suspension (yup, I'm one of those guys).  Structure cycles has it right, especially because they use off the shelf shocks, not proprietary headaches.

I can agree. Refined gear boxes would have me sold. I dont know if the cable connection causes problems but it makes me wonder if we...

I can agree. Refined gear boxes would have me sold. I dont know if the cable connection causes problems but it makes me wonder if we could use Eagle shifters to connect to a simple gear box and it would make it ride better. (Ive never ridden one btw. Just going off what I know. 
 

Id also be interested in trying a solid linkage fork. I think the Lefty was really cool. Unfortunately looks dictate so much for others. Although this Waki design of one is not bad. image-20240417105540-1

I think the lefty still is not fully developed.

Cedric Gracia raced a 160mm version of it on 4x. And those races were savage!

scar4me
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1/13/2021
Location
GB
4/27/2024 11:38am

I've got a floating oleo strut fork in the works!

Prototype using a donor manitou mattoc with the single strut, is nearly ready for first assembly n proving the theory's work.

Theory is a oleo position sensitive damper with floating negative chamber.
Position sensitivity comes from the bleed pin diameter varying the orifice size based on the fork stroke.
This will dead-blow when the oilflow reaches the max for orifice size, and the floating negative seal head will reduced the vacuum cavitation during dead blow events.
As forces slow to below threshold, the main air spring will extend again, the negative seal head will extended back, and normal orifice oil damping will take over again. All of this occurs still during the compression stroke.
Rebound will have a max rate of the orifice limit, and be position sensitive too helping deal with the high return pressures after dead low events or bottom out.

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