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Added a comment about feature Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Flat Pedals 5/23/2020 5:37 AM
kdiff

Thanks for the input.

“So it is hardly fair to call us out because you stripped one pin thread and the company won't replace your pedal.”

It’s not just about the pin, it’s the fact that the pedal wasn’t built correctly in the first place. Them not being greased properly has nothing to do with them being “exotic”. I understand the pin issue might be an issue of it being “exotic”, though a friend of mine, that is much harder on stuff, has not had problems as fast with his HT Mag pedals. HT has also been over the top in their service when he’s had issues. (I’m not expecting this from DMR, but I do think they should last for a few hundred miles without needing service. I’m pretty sure the pin hole was stripped from the factory, not from me, because it is tight until I start backing it out and then it behaves like a stripped pin. If it were from me/impact then it would wobble when its completely in.) Regarding them being “exotic”, iIf a product is so unreliable then perhaps it shouldn’t be made. That said, my guess is that your issue is me calling out you/Vital, yeah, I don’t know maybe it wasn’t right of me, maybe it was, I’m not sure. If “x” reputable car site said “y” car is great and then a consumer bought the sport (“exotic”) version and had problems right away, I think it would be fair for them to post on the site and say “Hey, this is a bad recommendation on your part! The trunk won’t close and it eats oil.” The oil consumption could be the fact that its a higher performance engine (exotic) but the trunk is the same across all models and not the result of the “exotic-ness “. Is it not right for the car consumer to say something then?

“For the record, not that it should matter, but DMR is not an advertiser with us nor would we shy away from calling it as we see it if this was indeed a "shitty product" as you call it.”

To be clear I never said or implied you were a shill. I do think that there are times products may not get as criticized as they should or perhaps sites get specially prepped products. I also think website reviewers don’t have the same perception of reality as the average consumer, partly due to the things I just mentioned, and also because they’re going to be treated differently by customer service and treated differently in the industry. There’s also a lot of testing in a short amount of time.

My experience is admittedly limited, but it wasn’t good and based on my experience it’s a shitty product that is not backed by good service. I get that you had a different experience but that doesn’t invalidate my experience or the other people on here that have not been happy. If your response is going to be “not ever product can be error free”, yeah, I agree, and that’s why customer service matters.

Regarding #2, I didn’t say the testing method wasn’t explained. It was explained in detail. My comments/critiques were ways I think it could be improved. I added examples in each suggestion because it helped demonstrate why it’s important. If my suggestions wouldn’t add value then that’s fine. Though at this point it feels like it’s more like the critique isn’t welcome. I also clearly stated that pedal testing is subjective.

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Added a comment about feature Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Flat Pedals 5/22/2020 5:14 PM
kdiff

@jnroyal I live in Southern California, wet conditions are not the issue. When it does occasionally rain, I’m very cautious so not to damage the trail. (Often miss out on “hero dirt” conditions because of my caution.)

I don’t doubt that you’ve had good luck with yours and there are likely others but there also appear to be many that have had issues. If you go through the comments, you’ll see there are others that have had issues with DMR Vaults.

Also, like slovenian6474 said, my guess is that the Mags are crap which is pretty awesome when one is paying about $300. Link to the Mags on Jenson, read the reviews.

I emailed DMR last night about the squeaking and the pin. The service/warranty manager, Martin, response was basically “they’re very dry, here’s a guide”. No acknowledgement of the stripped hole in the pedal body. I don’t think that’s acceptable, do you? It appears that I need a special tool to service them. Why would I invest in this tool when the pedal bodies aren’t going to hold up?

Its a very bad choice on Vitals part to have them as #1 though the whole comparison method is flawed as I stated in my original post. I partially blame Vital for recommending a shitty product. They’re the supposed experts and this is what they produce? (Someone needs to say it.) Also, customer service matters for all products and if you read reviews of DMR, it’s pretty split on how good/bad service is. All companies have a product or an occasional item that is defective, it’s about how you treat the customer in response.

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Liked a comment on the item Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Flat Pedals 5/22/2020 5:38 AM

Every set of DMR pedals iv seen bend... V8s V12 Vaults... all bend far to easy

Liked a comment on the item Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Flat Pedals 5/21/2020 4:03 PM

I had the same issues with Vault with 3 pins completely stripping out the threads and pedal noise which appears to be a poor seal. This was also on the Mag non-Ti version. DMR basically said don't get the Mag pedals if you're going to be hitting them on things.
I also agree with your grip comment....more

Added a comment about feature Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Flat Pedals 5/21/2020 12:56 PM
kdiff

Before I start, I realize there’s a lot of subjectivity to pedal testing and I’ve not used all the pedals on here. That said, I think this comparison could be a better, critiques below.

1. DMR Vault pedals shouldn’t be #1. Their quality/reliability is not good. Based on this article, in January I bought the Vault 2 Ti Mag versions. They are expensive, which I don’t mind as long as I get quality. With less than 200 miles (essentially less than 12 rides) one pedal is squeaking. I also discovered that a pin thread in the body is already stripped. It either came that way or happened from the weight of the shoe, it doesn’t appear to be the result of an impact. Link to the pedal noise. To be fair to DMR, I’ve not reached out for support, I’m kind of dreading it given other people’s comments about their support. The good is that they spin freely (for now). I also don’t agree with the grip, while good, I would say OneUp Aluminum are better and the best that I’ve tried.

2.No top/high ranking pedal should have pins that are only able to be removed via the pedal face (e.g. TMAC). (Pins close to the crank arm that don’t require a hex are the exception to this.) One high speed impact and you can easily have a set screw that is impossible or nearly impossible to extract. It’s stupid to have to deal with this inconvenience for a $100+ pedal. I like working on my bike but I have enough other things to work on (e.g. dust wiper maintenance).

3.On the topic of set/grub screws, this is subjective, but I think pins like the ones found on OneUp, RF Atlas, Spec. Boomslang, etc provide better grip with all other variables being equal.

4. Durability - I’ve not tried any of the top “picks” other than the DMR Vaults and likely won’t be trying them given my experience with the Vaults, so I can’t comment on their durability. However, the Aluminum OneUp’s have been ridiculous in their durability. I’ve had quite a few impacts that I expected to put them into partial retirement but they keep going, excellent grip with bent pins and all. RF Atlas have also been pretty decent. I have two pairs and just rebuilt one pair after over 800 miles and a number of rock strikes. (Some have commented on side play but it’s not been significant enough for me to notice during riding.) Canfield Crampon’s not so good and talk about side play. (If Canfield fanboys still exist, I’m a little afraid they’re going to shank me on the trail for that one.)

5.Free spin when mounted - We’re not road bikers and I’m not expecting to extract every watt of energy to the ground. However, my belief is that there’s a lot of wasted energy because of the poor spinning pedals. I also believe that in many cases this could be solved with better parts and/or design. (This and durability are the biggest faults with flat pedals and why I keep considering going to clip-in pedals.) RF Vault and Specialized Boomslang are pretty good in being easy to spin. Vaults are phenomenal in this respect. OneUp missed on the mark on this and would have otherwise been perfection. Link to OneUp video where I spin the pedal before and after tightening it down. (I’ve contacted OneUp and they said it was fine. I don’t really think it’s acceptable but love the pedals otherwise.)

Please take this in the spirit in which it was intended, I like Vital and want to see it do well.

Other notes: In addition to improving Vital, I’m tired of buying expensive crap products because they got a good review and then trying to get support from an equally crappy company (looking at you Cane Creek and maybe DMR depending on how support goes with my Vaults). The issue with having a small industry is that people are afraid of burning bridges and/or making themselves targets so rarely will someone give an honest critique.

This feature has 77 comments.

Liked a comment on the item Vital MTB Face Off: The Best Flat Pedals 5/21/2020 11:23 AM

Hate to say it, but the dmr vault reliability is very poor. The inboard seal isn’t effective leading to constant contamination issues. If you don’t stay on top of it the bushing that’s right next to that seal gets dirty and dry in pretty short order. You’ll end up with either with that horrid dry...more

Liked a comment on the item MTB Tire Test: Michelin Wild Enduro vs. e*thirteen LG1r EN MoPo 5/20/2020 7:55 AM

I don't understand why you would buy anything other than Maxxis or Schwalbe. 10 years later and still no one else can match these two brands. Maybe the new Michelin DH tires will work, but why wonder? I don't ride enough to want to potentially waste rides seeing if other tires...more

Liked a comment on the item Chris King is Now a Certified B Corp 4/22/2020 12:21 PM

Well this makes me feel a little better about the fact my hubs, bottom bracket, and headset cost more than my drivetrain and brakes.

Liked a comment on the item What's New? 2021 RockShox Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation Forks 4/11/2020 7:16 PM

I just wish SRAM wouldn't rely on the public for their product testing, then frame their corrections as upgrades. I'll be grumbling in my trash can if anyone needs me.

Liked a comment on the item What's New? 2021 RockShox Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation Forks 4/10/2020 5:17 AM

here's a shot of the label

Liked a comment on the item What's New? 2021 RockShox Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation Forks 4/10/2020 5:16 AM

seal head and foot nut kit # - 00.4020.573.000 - AM UPGR DB C1 - 35mm Seal Head

Added a comment about feature What's New? 2021 RockShox Lyrik, Pike, Yari and Revelation Forks 4/9/2020 1:06 PM
kdiff

@sspommer do you have the part #s for the kits, specifically the kit for upgrading a ‘20 Pike ($25 option)?

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Added reply in a thread Where to go for a two week summer MTB vacation? 2/14/2020 8:32 AM

Thank you all for the feedback! This has gotten more responses than I anticipated.

Added a comment about feature Blind Bobby Interviews Rob Roskopp - The Way Bobby Hears It Episode 1 1/16/2020 9:41 AM
kdiff

Trying not to build this up too much in my mind, but I'm excited to listen. From what I know about SC and what I've seen over the years, I like them a lot as a company.

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Started new thread Where to go for a two week summer MTB vacation? 1/9/2020 10:48 AM

Hey everyone - Every year I try to take at least one mtb related trip somewhere, however, I tend to procrastinate so a lot of the time I don't go anywhere of significance. This year I'm learning from my errors and planning early. I thought it might be ... more »

This forum thread has 21 replies

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