Forum Hot Seat: The E-MTB Power Discussion

ntm95
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104
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12/25/2024
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Lloydminster, AB CA
12/10/2025 9:07am Edited Date/Time 12/10/2025 10:48am
FAZUA wrote:
We continuously refine and advance every component of our system to deliver the highest possible performance. Our current design achieves top-tier efficiency in this segment. The...

We continuously refine and advance every component of our system to deliver the highest possible performance. Our current design achieves top-tier efficiency in this segment. The 90° angle does not significantly impact efficiency, indeed our motor operates at a much higher level than comparable solutions.

I'd agree that the motor is likely running at a slightly higher efficiency level due to the extra room to optimize the motor vs an east/west layout.

But any gains there would be cancelled out by the right angle drive's efficiency. And the knock on effects of vectoring torque 90 degrees are typically seen in weight and component longevity. 

I guess what I am getting at is this, put bluntly: Are the reliability issues that have plagued the fazua ride 60 system up to now fundamental challenges presented by the 90 degree layout ? Or have they been primarily manufacturing refinement issues ? 

And don't get me wrong, the positive aesthetic advantages to the 90 degree layout are undeniable, I am a fan. My wife has a heckler sl with the fazua 60 and loves it.  

FAZUA
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Location
Ottobrun DE
12/16/2025 9:16am
ntm95 wrote:
I'd agree that the motor is likely running at a slightly higher efficiency level due to the extra room to optimize the motor vs an east/west...

I'd agree that the motor is likely running at a slightly higher efficiency level due to the extra room to optimize the motor vs an east/west layout.

But any gains there would be cancelled out by the right angle drive's efficiency. And the knock on effects of vectoring torque 90 degrees are typically seen in weight and component longevity. 

I guess what I am getting at is this, put bluntly: Are the reliability issues that have plagued the fazua ride 60 system up to now fundamental challenges presented by the 90 degree layout ? Or have they been primarily manufacturing refinement issues ? 

And don't get me wrong, the positive aesthetic advantages to the 90 degree layout are undeniable, I am a fan. My wife has a heckler sl with the fazua 60 and loves it.  

The 90-degree layout has never caused any problems; in fact, it offers many advantages.

We strengthened the systems through various software updates, as well as improvements that were incorporated into the production process.

FAZUA
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Ottobrun DE
12/16/2025 9:30am
SPC wrote:
@FazuaThe latest updates allow boost to be activated with the button on the new controller or if using the old ring controller in mtb mode, to...

@Fazua

The latest updates allow boost to be activated with the button on the new controller or if using the old ring controller in mtb mode, to push the ring to the right. Can we get an update that would allow us to turn boost off once pedaled? Currently, once boost is engaged while pedaling you have to let it run the full time. It would be nice to be able to turn it off if the hill is let's say only 7 seconds instead of having to let it run for the full time. 

Otherwise, the latest updates really have the system feeling good!

Yes, it's true that with the FAZUA Toolbox, you can choose between Urban and MTB settings for the Ring Control and Mode Control.

In the MTB Setting, Boost is activated by pressing the dedicated button. Within the Urban setting, the Boost function is activated by tilting the ring upwards for two seconds.
With the FAZUA Ring Control in Urban mode, you can activate Boost by tilting the ring up for about two seconds. If the system is set to MTB, Boost is activated by tilting to the right. 
In all cases, the boost can be deactivated at any time by switching to neutral riding mode, indicated by a white LED light.

Avinox
Posts
6
Joined
11/14/2025
Location
US
12/16/2025 8:40pm
LePigPen wrote:
I really want to try a lightweight eMTB... For a whole day to feel what it's like. I PREFERRED the Fazua motor on the Decoy SN...

I really want to try a lightweight eMTB... For a whole day to feel what it's like. I PREFERRED the Fazua motor on the Decoy SN, and the bikes overall ride quality/feel, to the older Shimano Decoy with a full power type motor/battery... But I didn't get the opportunity to kill the battery. (Not to mention owning it long term and all the warranty potential that exists there.)

I think what we are seeing is an industry attenuation to 'a sweet spot in the middle', and that middle is being seen as 'full power' going forward due to just improved motors. So that's like ~600wh batteries. Maybe 500. Bikes around 50 pounds, maybe 55 (for alloy lets say).

I feel like the industry did away with the 60+ lbs builds, rightfully so, and only a few brands are bothering experimenting with the bleeding edge ~40 pound ebikes with motors like TQ.

And once that middle spot is fully secured (imo kinda already is) the next advancements will naturally be about mounting, battery swaps, etc. to make the bike a better long term investment.

Gun to my head today I take that Amflow Avinox. Seems to be the perfect sweet spot bike/motor and the cherry on top is its traction control ring. imo EVERY motor should be implementing that going forward. That system clearly has the most potential as of now.

Though I'm interested to see where stuff like SRAM systems go, where the entire bike is integrated. It's compelling, I just don't know how needed it is and when it will be trickling down to a full build set, instead of only high end builds. (Also will Shimano ever attempt anything similar with di2? my crystal ball says 'not likely')

Thanks for the love. We're proud of our traction control ring too!

1
Avinox
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Location
US
12/16/2025 8:42pm
grinch wrote:
I think the avinox's charger is quite quick and small and i havent heard of fire issues. You can get to80% in an hourish i believe...

I think the avinox's charger is quite quick and small and i havent heard of fire issues. You can get to80% in an hourish i believe? That'd work fine in a lot of cases for me. Huge backcountry days is another thing

Correct! The 12A/508W charger takes a 800WH battery to 75% in about 90 minutes; zero fire issues!

2
Avinox
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Location
US
12/16/2025 8:43pm
thresh wrote:

yeah, Spec and Amflow went in a right direction providing 700w and 500w chargers. I just wish it was even faster.

Riders spoke and we listened! 

Glad you're happy with our approach! We know speed is the name of the game with charging so we're continuing our efforts to innovate here.

1
Avinox
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12/16/2025 8:43pm
thresh wrote:
When will e-bike companies provide us with adequate chargers? Something that can charge an 500wh ebike in half an hour or so will alleviate most issues...

When will e-bike companies provide us with adequate chargers? Something that can charge an 500wh ebike in half an hour or so will alleviate most issues with range for us weekend warriors doing laps after laps.  We can plug that baby in while snacking between the runs and replenish the battery somewhat.

LePigPen wrote:
do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires loli think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on...

do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires lol

i think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on a fairly basic use till 0, then charge back at the house, and unplug before bed schedule.

what would be cool is swapping batteries out. speaking of like the Transition Relay with Fazua. dunno how much extra battery is but that sounds cool to me.

Swappable batteries are an interesting, but challenging, idea. We're always looking for ways to help riders ride longer and farther.

1
Avinox
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Location
US
12/16/2025 8:44pm

Where are the Amflow/Avinox people?

We're here now - apologies for our absence! Any questions for us?

1
Avinox
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Location
US
12/16/2025 8:46pm

I am pretty sure Pinion already has. MGU, Motor Gearbox Unit.

I'm asking the brands who are particiapting in this discussion.

We're watching the movement and innovation around integrated gearboxes, and will continue to listen to riders when they tell us what they want. Most important for us is to deliver on rider wishes, while also delivering an experience that aligns with the Avinox standard. There's still a bit of a ways to go before we're at that point!

2
12/17/2025 6:58am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2025 7:03am
Avinox wrote:

We're here now - apologies for our absence! Any questions for us?

Is the plan to make motors backward compatible and available to purchase as new versions are released? 

If the US government is successful in banning any new DJI products from import to the US would that affect availability of Avinox products in the US?

1
sethimus
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883
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Location
CH
12/17/2025 9:32am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2025 9:32am
Avinox wrote:

We're here now - apologies for our absence! Any questions for us?

why do some owners report a rattle, others not? why should the motor spindle not be turned backwards to lube the chain?

Suns_PSD
Posts
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Location
Austin, TX US
12/17/2025 12:45pm

Where are the Amflow/Avinox people?

Avinox wrote:

We're here now - apologies for our absence! Any questions for us?

Yes.

Planning my next e-bike purchase for around the 2nd quarter of 2026.

Everyone knows the Avinox M2 motor is coming out around then. We've heard more power (i.e. 130 NM), but a less expensive and heavier version of the M1.

Can you share details of the exact differences between the M1 & M2? Will the M1 remain unchanged? What I care about in order from highest priority to lowest is: lower noise, higher efficiency, lower weight, then integration/ looks. Even more power is not a concern of mine at all, although I know it'll sell like crazy.

 

Thanks!

12/17/2025 1:57pm

Where are the Amflow/Avinox people?

Avinox wrote:

We're here now - apologies for our absence! Any questions for us?

If I need to pull the battery out for flying, approximately how long will it take and any plans for an easy quick way to remove the battery?

Suns_PSD
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Austin, TX US
12/17/2025 3:21pm
RaggedEdge wrote:
If I need to pull the battery out for flying, approximately how long will it take and any plans for an easy quick way to remove...

If I need to pull the battery out for flying, approximately how long will it take and any plans for an easy quick way to remove the battery?

That's a bike manufacturer question.

Rob25001
Posts
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Joined
9/24/2025
Location
Hamilton NZ
12/17/2025 3:25pm

Hey manufactures I’m waiting for the trend to go back to 27.5 front and back. Until then I’m keeping my 2019 ebike 

1
thresh
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Location
San Jose, CA US
Fantasy
12/17/2025 4:14pm
thresh wrote:
When will e-bike companies provide us with adequate chargers? Something that can charge an 500wh ebike in half an hour or so will alleviate most issues...

When will e-bike companies provide us with adequate chargers? Something that can charge an 500wh ebike in half an hour or so will alleviate most issues with range for us weekend warriors doing laps after laps.  We can plug that baby in while snacking between the runs and replenish the battery somewhat.

LePigPen wrote:
do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires loli think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on...

do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires lol

i think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on a fairly basic use till 0, then charge back at the house, and unplug before bed schedule.

what would be cool is swapping batteries out. speaking of like the Transition Relay with Fazua. dunno how much extra battery is but that sounds cool to me.

Avinox wrote:

Swappable batteries are an interesting, but challenging, idea. We're always looking for ways to help riders ride longer and farther.

There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.

I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed out the bike - is that true?  What's the reason for it?

Suns_PSD
Posts
362
Joined
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Location
Austin, TX US
12/18/2025 8:25am
LePigPen wrote:
do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires loli think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on...

do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires lol

i think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on a fairly basic use till 0, then charge back at the house, and unplug before bed schedule.

what would be cool is swapping batteries out. speaking of like the Transition Relay with Fazua. dunno how much extra battery is but that sounds cool to me.

Avinox wrote:

Swappable batteries are an interesting, but challenging, idea. We're always looking for ways to help riders ride longer and farther.

thresh wrote:
There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed...

There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.

I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed out the bike - is that true?  What's the reason for it?

Pretty certain that the Avinox batteries are so light because they don't have some of the hardware that batteries require, locating in the actual battery pack. Cell balancers or whatever.

1
earleb
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Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
12/18/2025 10:07am
Avinox wrote:

Swappable batteries are an interesting, but challenging, idea. We're always looking for ways to help riders ride longer and farther.

thresh wrote:
There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed...

There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.

I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed out the bike - is that true?  What's the reason for it?

Suns_PSD wrote:
Pretty certain that the Avinox batteries are so light because they don't have some of the hardware that batteries require, locating in the actual battery pack...

Pretty certain that the Avinox batteries are so light because they don't have some of the hardware that batteries require, locating in the actual battery pack. Cell balancers or whatever.

No BMS in the battery? Seems really odd that the BMS wouldn't be integrated into the battery. A BMS is only going to weigh about 150 grams. 

thresh
Posts
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Joined
10/18/2023
Location
San Jose, CA US
Fantasy
12/18/2025 11:23am
thresh wrote:
There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed...

There are Avinox-based bikes with swappable batteries though, so it's there.

I've read somewhere online that it's not possible to charge an Avinox-system battery once it's removed out the bike - is that true?  What's the reason for it?

Suns_PSD wrote:
Pretty certain that the Avinox batteries are so light because they don't have some of the hardware that batteries require, locating in the actual battery pack...

Pretty certain that the Avinox batteries are so light because they don't have some of the hardware that batteries require, locating in the actual battery pack. Cell balancers or whatever.

earleb wrote:
No BMS in the battery? Seems really odd that the BMS wouldn't be integrated into the battery. A BMS is only going to weigh about 150...

No BMS in the battery? Seems really odd that the BMS wouldn't be integrated into the battery. A BMS is only going to weigh about 150 grams. 

(Not my photo) but pretty sure BMS is in place on Avinox batteris:

telegram-cloud-photo-size-2-5319003159000715452-y

Hence the question to Avinox, really.

1
Evwan
Posts
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11/18/2025
Location
Sunnyvale, CA US
Fantasy
12/22/2025 8:16pm
thresh wrote:
When will e-bike companies provide us with adequate chargers? Something that can charge an 500wh ebike in half an hour or so will alleviate most issues...

When will e-bike companies provide us with adequate chargers? Something that can charge an 500wh ebike in half an hour or so will alleviate most issues with range for us weekend warriors doing laps after laps.  We can plug that baby in while snacking between the runs and replenish the battery somewhat.

LePigPen wrote:
do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires loli think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on...

do you want battery fires? because this is how you get battery fires lol

i think thats a super low priority for the industry. people are on a fairly basic use till 0, then charge back at the house, and unplug before bed schedule.

what would be cool is swapping batteries out. speaking of like the Transition Relay with Fazua. dunno how much extra battery is but that sounds cool to me.

Avinox wrote:

Swappable batteries are an interesting, but challenging, idea. We're always looking for ways to help riders ride longer and farther.

1000x yes - please make swappable batteries part of the avinox system. 

I've got a santa cruz bullit with swappable batteries and I use two batteries almost every time I go out on a weekend ride. There are only a few bike companies doing quick swap batteries at the moment (specialized and trek are the big ones). I'd love to see an avinox system with a quick swap battery (crestline kind of counts, but takes around 10 minutes with tools from what I've heard). 

earleb
Posts
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Location
North Vancouver, BC CA
Fantasy
12/23/2025 8:44am

The Rotwild bike with Avinox has a swappable side load battery. It's their own design and not the battery from Avinox. 864wh battery in the latest Gen 4 version of their battery.

1

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