Specialized prototype- Why are they allowed?

bizutch
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7/28/2025 11:05am

So yeah.  How about a UCI Claims rule at National Championships?
Only make it 3 times retail price.  Loic shows up to race...you can claim his bike for $30k after the race.
🤣

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sethimus
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7/28/2025 11:10am
Kusa wrote:
IMG 9386.jpeg?VersionId=sA884utea8PvhfFFXtECAGrLU Zy

shouldn't the forum end here?

no because this is just a thread, not a whole forum. know the words, use them right.

2
8
7/28/2025 12:08pm
bizutch wrote:
The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.Adam Carolli racing a stock...

The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.
Adam Carolli racing a stock production Ducati rather than a one off works model is kind of wild. 

Anyone remember the Deegan debacle at Loretta Lynn's? His dad was a total cheat when he won his only SX race. So rumors of Star Racing having a ridiculous amount of money in Danger Boy's bike stirred rumours.  

Kid used the amateur rule to blow his own career up by forcing the purchase of Deegan's bike on the spot.  Resulted in dick head daddy Brian Deegan pulling the poor teenager into a private intimidation conversation & all sorts of stuff.

The prototype rules of Loretta Lynn's would be an awesome UCI rule for National Championships.  it WOULD level the playing field for one day Natty's in DownHill racing.  OR.....Bruni, Jordan & Finn wouldn't bother racing Nationals.  Which in turn, would be a nice open door for a guy to make a name for himself.

image 403

johann377 wrote:
Wait what, hadn't heard of the Deegan Loretta story. Did they find anything about his bike? Or did the kid not end up buying his bike...

Wait what, hadn't heard of the Deegan Loretta story. Did they find anything about his bike? Or did the kid not end up buying his bike after the one on one with Brian?

bizutch wrote:
Oh it was horrendous for the kid. So, he worked a JOB. Saved all his money up. Drooled over the Star Racing bike & just wanted...

Oh it was horrendous for the kid. So, he worked a JOB. Saved all his money up. Drooled over the Star Racing bike & just wanted to buy it outright b/c of the rule & he felt like it would make a difference in his own racing.  Kid's got his own pro mechanic & both geek and wanted to race it and tear it down to see what it was like. 
Kid filed his claim correctly, Deegan somehow gets the kid alone in a team truck, pushing him that he doesn't want to do this, it'll ruin him. Muddying the kids name because he posts his videos on YouTube & that's why is for clicks.  Even though the Deegan's YouTube is monstrous & they do anything they can to get more clicks, so it was hypocrisy.

Then they tried to somehow get the bike out of there to get the engine out of it and swap some random ass engine in it before giving it to the kid.

In the end, the kid got bullied & pressured by everyone. Deegans even got his bike/parts/shop affiliates on the phone to threaten to drop the kid if he didn't drop the claim.

In the end, Deegans & Star flipped everything on the kid, shut him down, got him to drop the claim & ruined the kids reputation.  

Everyone knew Star brought a factory bike to Lorettas. Someone finally called them out on it.  They railroaded a teenager.  
Never trust a Deegan.
Never think you're winning Lorettas b/c the factories will run you over, no matter what the fake ass rule is in place to protect the little guy.

Equally on the organizers of Loretta’s for allowing that to happen.  What’s the point of a rule if you ain’t going to enforce it.

2
7/28/2025 12:46pm

Again, in my opinion, we do not want this rule in pro racing for claiming Bikes.  It would put companies like Ohlins or RockShox not wanting to make new tech out or brembo coming in with proto because someone can just take it at the next race.

Level the playing field for the pro US downhill series or maybe IX access cup? But I love the Tech and I love how they’re pushing the level of the bikes each year at the World Cup and would hate to see that go away. 

 maybe Junior racing could have some equipment rules, but most of those writers are on pretty production machines

3
bizutch
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7/28/2025 12:55pm
johann377 wrote:
Wait what, hadn't heard of the Deegan Loretta story. Did they find anything about his bike? Or did the kid not end up buying his bike...

Wait what, hadn't heard of the Deegan Loretta story. Did they find anything about his bike? Or did the kid not end up buying his bike after the one on one with Brian?

bizutch wrote:
Oh it was horrendous for the kid. So, he worked a JOB. Saved all his money up. Drooled over the Star Racing bike & just wanted...

Oh it was horrendous for the kid. So, he worked a JOB. Saved all his money up. Drooled over the Star Racing bike & just wanted to buy it outright b/c of the rule & he felt like it would make a difference in his own racing.  Kid's got his own pro mechanic & both geek and wanted to race it and tear it down to see what it was like. 
Kid filed his claim correctly, Deegan somehow gets the kid alone in a team truck, pushing him that he doesn't want to do this, it'll ruin him. Muddying the kids name because he posts his videos on YouTube & that's why is for clicks.  Even though the Deegan's YouTube is monstrous & they do anything they can to get more clicks, so it was hypocrisy.

Then they tried to somehow get the bike out of there to get the engine out of it and swap some random ass engine in it before giving it to the kid.

In the end, the kid got bullied & pressured by everyone. Deegans even got his bike/parts/shop affiliates on the phone to threaten to drop the kid if he didn't drop the claim.

In the end, Deegans & Star flipped everything on the kid, shut him down, got him to drop the claim & ruined the kids reputation.  

Everyone knew Star brought a factory bike to Lorettas. Someone finally called them out on it.  They railroaded a teenager.  
Never trust a Deegan.
Never think you're winning Lorettas b/c the factories will run you over, no matter what the fake ass rule is in place to protect the little guy.

Equally on the organizers of Loretta’s for allowing that to happen.  What’s the point of a rule if you ain’t going to enforce it.

No. Not at all. They mediated. But they were forced by their own rule to enforce it. Deegan's went to the kids sponsors & got his main sponsor to threaten to take everything away from him that he'd worked for from the time he was little. All because Deegan's had unlimited resources.  

 

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bizutch
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7/28/2025 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 7/28/2025 1:02pm
Again, in my opinion, we do not want this rule in pro racing for claiming Bikes.  It would put companies like Ohlins or RockShox not wanting...

Again, in my opinion, we do not want this rule in pro racing for claiming Bikes.  It would put companies like Ohlins or RockShox not wanting to make new tech out or brembo coming in with proto because someone can just take it at the next race.

Level the playing field for the pro US downhill series or maybe IX access cup? But I love the Tech and I love how they’re pushing the level of the bikes each year at the World Cup and would hate to see that go away. 

 maybe Junior racing could have some equipment rules, but most of those writers are on pretty production machines

To be clear, only offering a perspective. DH is still mostly the racer, not the bike.  Marginal gains can be had from the bike itself in our sport at Nationals.  

In moto, a factory bike can wipe out any capacity for amateurs to compete at Lorettas.  
Not comparing apples to apples here.  
Closest comp in our sport, it's true, would be the suspension company components.


Asa showing up to Nationals on full Fox Factory digitally tuned, telemetry tested & set suspension isn't as massive an advantage over his competition as a works engine from Star.

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brash
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7/28/2025 3:14pm
bizutch wrote:
The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.Adam Carolli racing a stock...

The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.
Adam Carolli racing a stock production Ducati rather than a one off works model is kind of wild. 

Anyone remember the Deegan debacle at Loretta Lynn's? His dad was a total cheat when he won his only SX race. So rumors of Star Racing having a ridiculous amount of money in Danger Boy's bike stirred rumours.  

Kid used the amateur rule to blow his own career up by forcing the purchase of Deegan's bike on the spot.  Resulted in dick head daddy Brian Deegan pulling the poor teenager into a private intimidation conversation & all sorts of stuff.

The prototype rules of Loretta Lynn's would be an awesome UCI rule for National Championships.  it WOULD level the playing field for one day Natty's in DownHill racing.  OR.....Bruni, Jordan & Finn wouldn't bother racing Nationals.  Which in turn, would be a nice open door for a guy to make a name for himself.

image 403

Hold the fucking phone..... did you just call one of the GOAT's of World Motocross Antonio Cairoli "Adam Corolli" 

fuck sake lol

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johann377
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7/28/2025 4:19pm
bizutch wrote:
The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.Adam Carolli racing a stock...

The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.
Adam Carolli racing a stock production Ducati rather than a one off works model is kind of wild. 

Anyone remember the Deegan debacle at Loretta Lynn's? His dad was a total cheat when he won his only SX race. So rumors of Star Racing having a ridiculous amount of money in Danger Boy's bike stirred rumours.  

Kid used the amateur rule to blow his own career up by forcing the purchase of Deegan's bike on the spot.  Resulted in dick head daddy Brian Deegan pulling the poor teenager into a private intimidation conversation & all sorts of stuff.

The prototype rules of Loretta Lynn's would be an awesome UCI rule for National Championships.  it WOULD level the playing field for one day Natty's in DownHill racing.  OR.....Bruni, Jordan & Finn wouldn't bother racing Nationals.  Which in turn, would be a nice open door for a guy to make a name for himself.

image 403

johann377 wrote:
Wait what, hadn't heard of the Deegan Loretta story. Did they find anything about his bike? Or did the kid not end up buying his bike...

Wait what, hadn't heard of the Deegan Loretta story. Did they find anything about his bike? Or did the kid not end up buying his bike after the one on one with Brian?

bizutch wrote:
Oh it was horrendous for the kid. So, he worked a JOB. Saved all his money up. Drooled over the Star Racing bike & just wanted...

Oh it was horrendous for the kid. So, he worked a JOB. Saved all his money up. Drooled over the Star Racing bike & just wanted to buy it outright b/c of the rule & he felt like it would make a difference in his own racing.  Kid's got his own pro mechanic & both geek and wanted to race it and tear it down to see what it was like. 
Kid filed his claim correctly, Deegan somehow gets the kid alone in a team truck, pushing him that he doesn't want to do this, it'll ruin him. Muddying the kids name because he posts his videos on YouTube & that's why is for clicks.  Even though the Deegan's YouTube is monstrous & they do anything they can to get more clicks, so it was hypocrisy.

Then they tried to somehow get the bike out of there to get the engine out of it and swap some random ass engine in it before giving it to the kid.

In the end, the kid got bullied & pressured by everyone. Deegans even got his bike/parts/shop affiliates on the phone to threaten to drop the kid if he didn't drop the claim.

In the end, Deegans & Star flipped everything on the kid, shut him down, got him to drop the claim & ruined the kids reputation.  

Everyone knew Star brought a factory bike to Lorettas. Someone finally called them out on it.  They railroaded a teenager.  
Never trust a Deegan.
Never think you're winning Lorettas b/c the factories will run you over, no matter what the fake ass rule is in place to protect the little guy.

Yeesh, had no idea. That’s what happens when you’re a future multi-million dollar media star at junior level.

Thanks for the info.

7/29/2025 3:23am

Nothing against prototypes, but they have to make it down to production bikes. Specialized has released almost 4 different Stumpjumpers while the enduros/demos have been stuck in time. 

I'd allow a maximum of 12/24 months in the WC for something to get down to consumer level. At least when it comes to frames (theres always been pro only versions of suspensions (blackbox) and others). Privateers should also be able to ride the last year WC winning bike. Look at motoGP. 

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j0lsrud
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7/29/2025 7:02am

I think prototypes in WC and top level racing is the way to go.

Don't remember the podcast, but i think it was Gee Who said they got a new frame, that was not perfect, but they had to race it 2-3(?) years because of the product cycle. 

So for a racer, and team, to be able to make small adjustments all the time makes the bikes better, and the consumer bikes better in my opinion.

Regarding cost, i have no idea how big budgets teams have, but as long they can run protos i hope they are allowed. 

3
bizutch
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7/29/2025 7:07am

Ironically, in DH, placing a requirement to offer proof of concept from a WC bike to the general public would cut out the little guys.  Zero chance of getting a small market, small ownership frame to market all while racing it.  

Would just wipe out any privateer group like Frameworks.

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StudBeefpile
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7/29/2025 11:17am

I for one love prototype shit in DH or any other form of racing.  I don't think we should put any contingency on it coming to the consumer either.  It still comes down to the rider.  Look at Spech, both Loic and Finn have been on the same bike and their results are different.  Jackson's cleaning up this year on a fairly stock V10.  

Proto's keep things interesting and help push forward our small sport.  

5
bizutch
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8/14/2025 10:52am
bizutch wrote:
The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.Adam Carolli racing a stock...

The AMA rule regarding not being able to race unless you offer a production version I'd love to see in more detail.
Adam Carolli racing a stock production Ducati rather than a one off works model is kind of wild. 

Anyone remember the Deegan debacle at Loretta Lynn's? His dad was a total cheat when he won his only SX race. So rumors of Star Racing having a ridiculous amount of money in Danger Boy's bike stirred rumours.  

Kid used the amateur rule to blow his own career up by forcing the purchase of Deegan's bike on the spot.  Resulted in dick head daddy Brian Deegan pulling the poor teenager into a private intimidation conversation & all sorts of stuff.

The prototype rules of Loretta Lynn's would be an awesome UCI rule for National Championships.  it WOULD level the playing field for one day Natty's in DownHill racing.  OR.....Bruni, Jordan & Finn wouldn't bother racing Nationals.  Which in turn, would be a nice open door for a guy to make a name for himself.

image 403

brash wrote:

Hold the fucking phone..... did you just call one of the GOAT's of World Motocross Antonio Cairoli "Adam Corolli" 

fuck sake lol

dude is so fast
Adam Carolla blasts the "narcissism" of ...

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