Does anyone on here have experience with both the Tech 4 E4 and the Tech 4 V4?I’m wondering if the E4s have a less of the...
Does anyone on here have experience with both the Tech 4 E4 and the Tech 4 V4?
I’m wondering if the E4s have a less of the kinda vague lever feel that the V4s have. My main gripe with my V4s is how the bite point feels vague/mushy.
i keep reading this and i keep finding my brakes the opposite, V4 braided paired with hope adapters and 2.3mm rotors, so i'm wondering, given that every other Hope brakes i try always have the normal hoses and feels soft/spongy, and mine and some customers that i installed, all with braided hoses, have a nice and defined/firm bite point, what hoses do you have? While Hope's claim is that there's no difference, i really don't believe it, stiff hoses do make a difference, especially in feel.
Does anyone on here have experience with both the Tech 4 E4 and the Tech 4 V4?I’m wondering if the E4s have a less of the...
Does anyone on here have experience with both the Tech 4 E4 and the Tech 4 V4?
I’m wondering if the E4s have a less of the kinda vague lever feel that the V4s have. My main gripe with my V4s is how the bite point feels vague/mushy.
i keep reading this and i keep finding my brakes the opposite, V4 braided paired with hope adapters and 2.3mm rotors, so i'm wondering, given that...
i keep reading this and i keep finding my brakes the opposite, V4 braided paired with hope adapters and 2.3mm rotors, so i'm wondering, given that every other Hope brakes i try always have the normal hoses and feels soft/spongy, and mine and some customers that i installed, all with braided hoses, have a nice and defined/firm bite point, what hoses do you have? While Hope's claim is that there's no difference, i really don't believe it, stiff hoses do make a difference, especially in feel.
I have the standard lines, but I’ve felt the braided lines on a friend’s bike and they feel basically the same to me.
I don't have the Hopes but I have some braided vs standard experience on my Maxima. I had to run a standard rear line on my old bike because the 6mm braided hose wouldn't clear the internal routing. I still kept the braided hose for my front brake. There was a minor bite point feeling difference between the two. The Goodridge hose bite point was more sharp and defined while the rear standard hose was a tiny little bit mushy in comparison. My new bike has external routing so I can finally run the braided hoses and both front and rear brakes now have an identical feel.
Does anyone on here have experience with both the Tech 4 E4 and the Tech 4 V4?I’m wondering if the E4s have a less of the...
Does anyone on here have experience with both the Tech 4 E4 and the Tech 4 V4?
I’m wondering if the E4s have a less of the kinda vague lever feel that the V4s have. My main gripe with my V4s is how the bite point feels vague/mushy.
i keep reading this and i keep finding my brakes the opposite, V4 braided paired with hope adapters and 2.3mm rotors, so i'm wondering, given that...
i keep reading this and i keep finding my brakes the opposite, V4 braided paired with hope adapters and 2.3mm rotors, so i'm wondering, given that every other Hope brakes i try always have the normal hoses and feels soft/spongy, and mine and some customers that i installed, all with braided hoses, have a nice and defined/firm bite point, what hoses do you have? While Hope's claim is that there's no difference, i really don't believe it, stiff hoses do make a difference, especially in feel.
I have the standard lines, but I’ve felt the braided lines on a friend’s bike and they feel basically the same to me.
From what I had in the shop, not the same at all
Not sure on the trail as I’ve only ridden on braided hoses with Hopes but even riding with a guy that had the exact same set up other than hoses he said himself that mine felt way better and more defined
I’d try to bleed the caliper by pushing pistons out and opening the bleed nipple while pushing them back, perhaps there can be some air behind the pistons making them feel more vague, I’d try it, but I’m confident that the stiffer hoses do make a real difference especially on brakes like these pushing strong pressures
Anyone try and fit a slightly longer bite point screw to firm things up? Brakes and perfectly bled and even slightly overfilled and still not as tight as radic/mavens
Hope v4Anyone try and fit a slightly longer bite point screw to firm things up? Brakes and perfectly bled and even slightly overfilled and still not...
Hope v4
Anyone try and fit a slightly longer bite point screw to firm things up? Brakes and perfectly bled and even slightly overfilled and still not as tight as radic/mavens
It’s just a different brake, it won’t get like the other 2 mentioned and it doesn’t matter, on the trail when the bite point is all in they become super touchy and honestly hard to modulate
I actually didn't put a longer screw....it's a damn custom size of course.....but there should absolutely be aftermarket options. What I did is epoxy 2 layers of precisely cut butyl road tire tubes to where the bite point contacts the reservoir. It effectively added 2-3mm? of screw length/bite. I am only running 2.3mm rotors so maybe this is what it's like running the 3.3 vented rotors?
The vented rotors are hilarious overpriced so not doing that.
Either way, if any manufacturers are reading this, please machine a longer screw for Hope V4 bite point. HUGE difference.
I actually didn't put a longer screw....it's a damn custom size of course.....but there should absolutely be aftermarket options. What I did is epoxy 2 layers...
I actually didn't put a longer screw....it's a damn custom size of course.....but there should absolutely be aftermarket options. What I did is epoxy 2 layers of precisely cut butyl road tire tubes to where the bite point contacts the reservoir. It effectively added 2-3mm? of screw length/bite. I am only running 2.3mm rotors so maybe this is what it's like running the 3.3 vented rotors?
The vented rotors are hilarious overpriced so not doing that.
Either way, if any manufacturers are reading this, please machine a longer screw for Hope V4 bite point. HUGE difference.
What you describe with lengthening the bite point screw to change the feel of the brakes isn't really consistent with how hope brakes, or open hydraulic brake systems in general, work.
The bite point screw doesn't change the position of the pads; this is determined by the seals in the caliper and the gap to the disc will be the same for any disc thickness. What the bite point screw does is change the position of the piston in the master cylinder relative to the reservoir bleed port so that more or less lever throw is required before the master cylinder piston passes the port and starts to move the caliper pistons. Once this happens the brake will behave in the same way regardless of the starting position unless there isn't enough fluid in the reservoir and then air will enter the system. This is why Hope recommend adding extra fluid in the V4s when using 1.8 or 2.3 mm discs.
I'm not really sure what is going on with your brakes to make them feel different with the modification you made but I would guess it comes down to the bleed or setup not being perfect. Hope Tech 4s don't have a very firm lever feel compared to others, even with everything setup correctly and the caliper pistons perfectly centered.
I actually didn't put a longer screw....it's a damn custom size of course.....but there should absolutely be aftermarket options. What I did is epoxy 2 layers...
I actually didn't put a longer screw....it's a damn custom size of course.....but there should absolutely be aftermarket options. What I did is epoxy 2 layers of precisely cut butyl road tire tubes to where the bite point contacts the reservoir. It effectively added 2-3mm? of screw length/bite. I am only running 2.3mm rotors so maybe this is what it's like running the 3.3 vented rotors?
The vented rotors are hilarious overpriced so not doing that.
Either way, if any manufacturers are reading this, please machine a longer screw for Hope V4 bite point. HUGE difference.
Only thing I would be concerned about here (aside from voiding your warranty) is inadvertently pushing the primary seal on the MC piston past the timing port holes, making the system a closed brake. Time will tell. If you start to lose a brake due to starving the system of fluid or start to have the brake locking up/bite point firming up erratically will tell you that is the case.
For all things mechanic wise, assume you're the weak link in the process and do your best to strengthen your knowledge of fit and process. RTFM, RTFM again, RTFM one more time for good measure. And read it, don't skim (done it, bit me in the ass a couple times, and it was embarrassing). If all that fails, reach out to tech support. The folx working phones and computers are generally hella helpful and quite likely more experienced in the set-up of their wares and definitely know of any potential manufacturing issue that's preventing you from getting the ideal you're looking for. Don't be afraid to be wrong in your thinking either. Sometimes it turns out what you were looking for was not the way a system was designed to operate.
Interesting thoughts but I will tell you that I cannot turn the bite point in all the way now or the brake locks up. That tells me the above explanation about bite point adjustment not moving pads is incorrect
Interesting thoughts but I will tell you that I cannot turn the bite point in all the way now or the brake locks up. That tells...
Interesting thoughts but I will tell you that I cannot turn the bite point in all the way now or the brake locks up. That tells me the above explanation about bite point adjustment not moving pads is incorrect
What that should be telling you is that yes, the primary seal has crossed the timing port holes as it is now engaging the caliper without lever activation. That in turn says you have exceeded the design limit intents of the feature and are potentially putting your safety at risk.
This diagram shows an open master cylinder design. The bite point adjust changes the position of the piston to the right of the port. If you extend the adjuster and push the piston in too far it will be past the port and engauge the caliper pistons, effectively making a closed system.
This diagram shows an open master cylinder design. The bite point adjust changes the position of the piston to the right of the port. If you extend the adjuster and push the piston in too far it will be past the port and engauge the caliper pistons, effectively making a closed system.
Nice picture. Are you sure that’s the design of the brake?
Someone I saw on the local hill this week mentioned that Hope is supposedly coming out with a Tech 5 lever to appease the people who don’t like their brakes because of the need to roll the membrane when closing up the system. I would assume it would be something similar to how Shimano has the screw that is removed and the funnel installed when bleeding.
Regarding contact adjust, I've read multiple places that the way that works on SRAM RSC-style brakes is different. On those, it changes the rotation of the eccentric cam that the lever uses to drive the master cylinder piston. This cam has varying amounts of mechanical advantage throughout its rotation. Winding the C adjuster out on these brakes decreases the mechanical advantage, making the lever pull effectively more linear (ratio of lever movement to piston advancement gets closer to 1:1). So the distance you have to pull the lever in order to make the pads contact the rotor gets shorter, but the amount of finger force needed increases because it loses mechanical advantage over the system drag. Conversely if you run the C adjuster all the way in, you gain maximum mechanical advantage so the pull is lighter but has to move further to hit the contact point. Think of a simple lever over fulcrum setup - C adjuster fully out is short lever arm, C adjuster fully in is longer lever arm.
When I used to have Code RSCs, I didn't realize this and ran the C all the way out to make them bite quickest like I was used to from Maguras or Shimanos, and would get wicked arm pump on relatively short descents. Years later after I learned this and got Mavens, I run the C all the way in after a bleed and only adjust outward a little to balance feel, and never get arm pump.
That said, the bite point adjust on other brake systems sometimes works differently (directly advances the MC piston - Hayes' version does this).
Regarding contact adjust, I've read multiple places that the way that works on SRAM RSC-style brakes is different. On those, it changes the rotation of the...
Regarding contact adjust, I've read multiple places that the way that works on SRAM RSC-style brakes is different. On those, it changes the rotation of the eccentric cam that the lever uses to drive the master cylinder piston. This cam has varying amounts of mechanical advantage throughout its rotation. Winding the C adjuster out on these brakes decreases the mechanical advantage, making the lever pull effectively more linear (ratio of lever movement to piston advancement gets closer to 1:1). So the distance you have to pull the lever in order to make the pads contact the rotor gets shorter, but the amount of finger force needed increases because it loses mechanical advantage over the system drag. Conversely if you run the C adjuster all the way in, you gain maximum mechanical advantage so the pull is lighter but has to move further to hit the contact point. Think of a simple lever over fulcrum setup - C adjuster fully out is short lever arm, C adjuster fully in is longer lever arm.
When I used to have Code RSCs, I didn't realize this and ran the C all the way out to make them bite quickest like I was used to from Maguras or Shimanos, and would get wicked arm pump on relatively short descents. Years later after I learned this and got Mavens, I run the C all the way in after a bleed and only adjust outward a little to balance feel, and never get arm pump.
That said, the bite point adjust on other brake systems sometimes works differently (directly advances the MC piston - Hayes' version does this).
Been a spot since I popped a pair of Sram's apart, but I recollect the dial interfacing with another component that interfaced with a threaded unit that did in turn advance or retreat the MC piston. I could be wrong and if so I expect to be enlightened.
The easiest way to check if the master cylinder piston has gone past the reservoir port is to whip the wheel off and see if you can push the pistons back. Yes=Gtg no=err maybe don't ride on them
The easiest way to check if the master cylinder piston has gone past the reservoir port is to whip the wheel off and see if you...
The easiest way to check if the master cylinder piston has gone past the reservoir port is to whip the wheel off and see if you can push the pistons back. Yes=Gtg no=err maybe don't ride on them
For all things mechanic wise, assume you're the weak link in the process and do your best to strengthen your knowledge of fit and process. RTFM...
For all things mechanic wise, assume you're the weak link in the process and do your best to strengthen your knowledge of fit and process. RTFM, RTFM again, RTFM one more time for good measure. And read it, don't skim (done it, bit me in the ass a couple times, and it was embarrassing). If all that fails, reach out to tech support. The folx working phones and computers are generally hella helpful and quite likely more experienced in the set-up of their wares and definitely know of any potential manufacturing issue that's preventing you from getting the ideal you're looking for. Don't be afraid to be wrong in your thinking either. Sometimes it turns out what you were looking for was not the way a system was designed to operate.
Be curious, be reasonable.
Hadn't encountered the phrase "RTFM" yet. Thank you for sharing this gift with me.
Regarding contact adjust, I've read multiple places that the way that works on SRAM RSC-style brakes is different. On those, it changes the rotation of the...
Regarding contact adjust, I've read multiple places that the way that works on SRAM RSC-style brakes is different. On those, it changes the rotation of the eccentric cam that the lever uses to drive the master cylinder piston. This cam has varying amounts of mechanical advantage throughout its rotation. Winding the C adjuster out on these brakes decreases the mechanical advantage, making the lever pull effectively more linear (ratio of lever movement to piston advancement gets closer to 1:1). So the distance you have to pull the lever in order to make the pads contact the rotor gets shorter, but the amount of finger force needed increases because it loses mechanical advantage over the system drag. Conversely if you run the C adjuster all the way in, you gain maximum mechanical advantage so the pull is lighter but has to move further to hit the contact point. Think of a simple lever over fulcrum setup - C adjuster fully out is short lever arm, C adjuster fully in is longer lever arm.
When I used to have Code RSCs, I didn't realize this and ran the C all the way out to make them bite quickest like I was used to from Maguras or Shimanos, and would get wicked arm pump on relatively short descents. Years later after I learned this and got Mavens, I run the C all the way in after a bleed and only adjust outward a little to balance feel, and never get arm pump.
That said, the bite point adjust on other brake systems sometimes works differently (directly advances the MC piston - Hayes' version does this).
Yeah, that's not correct. It changes the length of the pushrod that goes between the rocker link and the master piston. Effectively changing the starting point of the main piston.
Random thought: I think the replacement of the bladder at the end is the most difficult part to avoid any air. Why not bleed upside down and use the caliper bleed port to make sure absolutely no air?
For all things mechanic wise, assume you're the weak link in the process and do your best to strengthen your knowledge of fit and process. RTFM...
For all things mechanic wise, assume you're the weak link in the process and do your best to strengthen your knowledge of fit and process. RTFM, RTFM again, RTFM one more time for good measure. And read it, don't skim (done it, bit me in the ass a couple times, and it was embarrassing). If all that fails, reach out to tech support. The folx working phones and computers are generally hella helpful and quite likely more experienced in the set-up of their wares and definitely know of any potential manufacturing issue that's preventing you from getting the ideal you're looking for. Don't be afraid to be wrong in your thinking either. Sometimes it turns out what you were looking for was not the way a system was designed to operate.
Random thought: I think the replacement of the bladder at the end is the most difficult part to avoid any air. Why not bleed upside down...
Random thought: I think the replacement of the bladder at the end is the most difficult part to avoid any air. Why not bleed upside down and use the caliper bleed port to make sure absolutely no air?
How do you intend on pushing oil to the caliper and out the bleedport?
Random thought: I think the replacement of the bladder at the end is the most difficult part to avoid any air. Why not bleed upside down...
Random thought: I think the replacement of the bladder at the end is the most difficult part to avoid any air. Why not bleed upside down and use the caliper bleed port to make sure absolutely no air?
i keep reading this and i keep finding my brakes the opposite, V4 braided paired with hope adapters and 2.3mm rotors, so i'm wondering, given that every other Hope brakes i try always have the normal hoses and feels soft/spongy, and mine and some customers that i installed, all with braided hoses, have a nice and defined/firm bite point, what hoses do you have?
While Hope's claim is that there's no difference, i really don't believe it, stiff hoses do make a difference, especially in feel.
I have the standard lines, but I’ve felt the braided lines on a friend’s bike and they feel basically the same to me.
I don't have the Hopes but I have some braided vs standard experience on my Maxima. I had to run a standard rear line on my old bike because the 6mm braided hose wouldn't clear the internal routing. I still kept the braided hose for my front brake. There was a minor bite point feeling difference between the two. The Goodridge hose bite point was more sharp and defined while the rear standard hose was a tiny little bit mushy in comparison. My new bike has external routing so I can finally run the braided hoses and both front and rear brakes now have an identical feel.
From what I had in the shop, not the same at all
Not sure on the trail as I’ve only ridden on braided hoses with Hopes but even riding with a guy that had the exact same set up other than hoses he said himself that mine felt way better and more defined
I’d try to bleed the caliper by pushing pistons out and opening the bleed nipple while pushing them back, perhaps there can be some air behind the pistons making them feel more vague, I’d try it, but I’m confident that the stiffer hoses do make a real difference especially on brakes like these pushing strong pressures
Does anyone maybe know the size of the oring on the Code lever bleed screw? They get torn up all the time...
Hope v4
Anyone try and fit a slightly longer bite point screw to firm things up? Brakes and perfectly bled and even slightly overfilled and still not as tight as radic/mavens
It’s just a different brake, it won’t get like the other 2 mentioned and it doesn’t matter, on the trail when the bite point is all in they become super touchy and honestly hard to modulate
I lengthened the bite point screw on the v4s. Tight as can be now
How'd you do that mate? Got a pic? Which rotors do you use with them?
I actually didn't put a longer screw....it's a damn custom size of course.....but there should absolutely be aftermarket options. What I did is epoxy 2 layers of precisely cut butyl road tire tubes to where the bite point contacts the reservoir. It effectively added 2-3mm? of screw length/bite. I am only running 2.3mm rotors so maybe this is what it's like running the 3.3 vented rotors?
The vented rotors are hilarious overpriced so not doing that.
Either way, if any manufacturers are reading this, please machine a longer screw for Hope V4 bite point. HUGE difference.
What you describe with lengthening the bite point screw to change the feel of the brakes isn't really consistent with how hope brakes, or open hydraulic brake systems in general, work.
The bite point screw doesn't change the position of the pads; this is determined by the seals in the caliper and the gap to the disc will be the same for any disc thickness. What the bite point screw does is change the position of the piston in the master cylinder relative to the reservoir bleed port so that more or less lever throw is required before the master cylinder piston passes the port and starts to move the caliper pistons. Once this happens the brake will behave in the same way regardless of the starting position unless there isn't enough fluid in the reservoir and then air will enter the system. This is why Hope recommend adding extra fluid in the V4s when using 1.8 or 2.3 mm discs.
I'm not really sure what is going on with your brakes to make them feel different with the modification you made but I would guess it comes down to the bleed or setup not being perfect. Hope Tech 4s don't have a very firm lever feel compared to others, even with everything setup correctly and the caliper pistons perfectly centered.
Only thing I would be concerned about here (aside from voiding your warranty) is inadvertently pushing the primary seal on the MC piston past the timing port holes, making the system a closed brake. Time will tell. If you start to lose a brake due to starving the system of fluid or start to have the brake locking up/bite point firming up erratically will tell you that is the case.
For all things mechanic wise, assume you're the weak link in the process and do your best to strengthen your knowledge of fit and process. RTFM, RTFM again, RTFM one more time for good measure. And read it, don't skim (done it, bit me in the ass a couple times, and it was embarrassing). If all that fails, reach out to tech support. The folx working phones and computers are generally hella helpful and quite likely more experienced in the set-up of their wares and definitely know of any potential manufacturing issue that's preventing you from getting the ideal you're looking for. Don't be afraid to be wrong in your thinking either. Sometimes it turns out what you were looking for was not the way a system was designed to operate.
Be curious, be reasonable.
Interesting thoughts but I will tell you that I cannot turn the bite point in all the way now or the brake locks up. That tells me the above explanation about bite point adjustment not moving pads is incorrect
What that should be telling you is that yes, the primary seal has crossed the timing port holes as it is now engaging the caliper without lever activation. That in turn says you have exceeded the design limit intents of the feature and are potentially putting your safety at risk.
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbikeadvice.in%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2010%2F11%2FMC-6.jpg&f=1&ipt=57742ea1c1bad29ad4d3d164cf3bfb106b5def254e069f0a329bd992ed16a566
This diagram shows an open master cylinder design. The bite point adjust changes the position of the piston to the right of the port. If you extend the adjuster and push the piston in too far it will be past the port and engauge the caliper pistons, effectively making a closed system.
Nice picture. Are you sure that’s the design of the brake?
For Hope, do people realize they have open source tools to help you with the bleed process and alignment?
https://www.hopetech.com/open-source-tools/
Someone I saw on the local hill this week mentioned that Hope is supposedly coming out with a Tech 5 lever to appease the people who don’t like their brakes because of the need to roll the membrane when closing up the system. I would assume it would be something similar to how Shimano has the screw that is removed and the funnel installed when bleeding.
Hopes look nicer but conceptually yes, you can see most of the design in the exploded view. The port is covered by the deflector plate.
Regarding contact adjust, I've read multiple places that the way that works on SRAM RSC-style brakes is different. On those, it changes the rotation of the eccentric cam that the lever uses to drive the master cylinder piston. This cam has varying amounts of mechanical advantage throughout its rotation. Winding the C adjuster out on these brakes decreases the mechanical advantage, making the lever pull effectively more linear (ratio of lever movement to piston advancement gets closer to 1:1). So the distance you have to pull the lever in order to make the pads contact the rotor gets shorter, but the amount of finger force needed increases because it loses mechanical advantage over the system drag. Conversely if you run the C adjuster all the way in, you gain maximum mechanical advantage so the pull is lighter but has to move further to hit the contact point. Think of a simple lever over fulcrum setup - C adjuster fully out is short lever arm, C adjuster fully in is longer lever arm.
When I used to have Code RSCs, I didn't realize this and ran the C all the way out to make them bite quickest like I was used to from Maguras or Shimanos, and would get wicked arm pump on relatively short descents. Years later after I learned this and got Mavens, I run the C all the way in after a bleed and only adjust outward a little to balance feel, and never get arm pump.
That said, the bite point adjust on other brake systems sometimes works differently (directly advances the MC piston - Hayes' version does this).
Been a spot since I popped a pair of Sram's apart, but I recollect the dial interfacing with another component that interfaced with a threaded unit that did in turn advance or retreat the MC piston. I could be wrong and if so I expect to be enlightened.
The easiest way to check if the master cylinder piston has gone past the reservoir port is to whip the wheel off and see if you can push the pistons back. Yes=Gtg no=err maybe don't ride on them
Just checked and yes I can
Hadn't encountered the phrase "RTFM" yet. Thank you for sharing this gift with me.
Yeah, that's not correct. It changes the length of the pushrod that goes between the rocker link and the master piston. Effectively changing the starting point of the main piston.
Cutaway of a Guide from NSMB:
Hope tech 5 will just be a lever change? Anyone know?
Random thought: I think the replacement of the bladder at the end is the most difficult part to avoid any air. Why not bleed upside down and use the caliper bleed port to make sure absolutely no air?
Now THAT is shocking. Figured that one was in everyone who's lifted a wrench's vernacular. Glad to share!
How do you intend on pushing oil to the caliper and out the bleedport?
It isn't difficult at all, just messy.
Post a reply to: Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment