Lets be honest... (Ebike related)

profro
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Clinton, TN US
This past weekend my son and I raced a local enduro with some big miles and stages with a decent amount of pedalling. In the pro category I raced 22 miles with about 4500ft of vertical. So between the 2 days (training and racing) it was a big weekend. I don't really race that much anymore but this one race I like because of how big it is. In my opinion its what enduro should be. Big days, self reliant with a good mix of tech, fast, pedalling and a huge dose of ENDURance.

However this year I noticed a massive increase in people using ebikes on Saturday to practice the tracks. None of the guys in the pro category did but several of the amateur and even kids did this. As a result some of the amateur times were insanely faster than the pro winning times. This could be due to a couple of factors:
1. Using an ebike during training saves your legs.
2. The amateurs only did 5 stages, whereas the pros did a 6th which had an extra 1000ft climb to the last stage.
3. Perhaps with the time saved during training they could have done multiple training laps.

Its unfortunate that the promoter did not address this in his rulebook. Even though he does mention no shuttling during training (unless provided as part of the race) and that only one bike must be used for the event. Maybe none of these factors played into this, but logic argues that it does. I get that there is no putting the cat back into the bag. Ebikes are hear to stay, but fundamentally that are not the same sport. In any discipline with pedalling there is no scenario I can think of where an ebike is not an advantage. Are we just in the infancy of this and eventually it will sort itself out. But when you are driving home and your 13 year old kid asks why the kid that beat him was allowed to train/practice on an ebike. It is tough to some how make it sound fair....

Its unfortunate that local level competition based on human-powered sport has come to this.
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jonkranked
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Norristown, PA US
9/28/2021 8:37am
coming from this from a non-enduro racer (but former dh racer) - i think it makes sense that you should have to practice on the bike you are racing on. to this point, at the UCI level, XC racers are required to use the same bike for both short track and XCO.

i'm inclined to agree with a number of the points you mention (more laps, being fresher on race day, etc), but also as it can create a disadvantage for riders (and parents of young riders) who can't afford an e-bike on top of an enduro race bike. this is especially true for kids, many of whom probably have enough challenges convincing their parents to get them an enduro capable race bike in the first place. dropping several grand on a bike that might fit a kid for 2-3 seasons at best can be a hard sell (i get the resale value aspect of it, but there's still the upfront investment).
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Big Bird
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Oceano, CA US
9/28/2021 9:51am
"Its unfortunate that the promoter did not address this in his rulebook. Even though he does mention no shuttling during training (unless provided as part of the race) and that only one bike must be used for the event."

I think that says it right there. "Only one bike."
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profro
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Clinton, TN US
9/28/2021 9:55am
Big Bird wrote:
"Its unfortunate that the promoter did not address this in his rulebook. Even though he does mention no shuttling during training (unless provided as part of...
"Its unfortunate that the promoter did not address this in his rulebook. Even though he does mention no shuttling during training (unless provided as part of the race) and that only one bike must be used for the event."

I think that says it right there. "Only one bike."
Well, I wasn't sure if the "event" included Saturday. In my opinion it does because the courses were marked, taped and its obviously the practice day. I guess I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I have sent him an email asking that he address this, but I have not gotten any response.
9/28/2021 12:55pm
Wait, you had to pedal? Unfair.
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mcozzy
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GB
9/29/2021 5:23am
Does it matter? It's supposed to be fun. Riding a bike uphill isn't much fun. Riding a bike downhill feeling fresh is super fun.
Unless you are a paid pro and cheating the rules is involved I don't see an issue. Yes I ride an ebike.
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profro
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Clinton, TN US
9/29/2021 8:19am
Like it or not, humans require rules to regulate a level playing field. From AYSO soccer to high school basketball, to amateur enduro racing. Like I said, I paid $85 per entry to be a part of a fair competition. Fortunately my competitors all practised and raced on the same bikes. As a result I felt like I was part of a level competition. Unfortunately for my 13 year old son I can't same the same...
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9/29/2021 6:05pm
So, buy an ebike...I still do not get the issue here....
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Big Bird
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9/29/2021 6:10pm
So, buy an ebike...I still do not get the issue here....
Modern mountain bikes are expensive enough. Not everyone, you accepted of course, can afford to buy a second e-bike to make practice easier.
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mcozzy
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GB
9/30/2021 12:20am
Maybe everyone should ride an identical cheap control bike with no suspension, cable brakes and no gears to make it accessible to everybody.
Actually that sounds kind of fun!
Anyway life isn't fair, so it's a life lesson for your kid.
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1
9/30/2021 2:53am
So, buy an ebike...I still do not get the issue here....
Big Bird wrote:
Modern mountain bikes are expensive enough. Not everyone, you accepted of course, can afford to buy a second e-bike to make practice easier.
I do not have a single, let alone a second ebike. That said, I also do not complain when others have things I do not have. When I was young...well, I got sponsors....


https://youtu.be/r3UjxGvTCBY
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thejake
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Carnation, WA US
10/1/2021 7:49pm
So, buy an ebike...I still do not get the issue here....
Big Bird wrote:
Modern mountain bikes are expensive enough. Not everyone, you accepted of course, can afford to buy a second e-bike to make practice easier.
I do not have a single, let alone a second ebike. That said, I also do not complain when others have things I do not have...
I do not have a single, let alone a second ebike. That said, I also do not complain when others have things I do not have. When I was young...well, I got sponsors....


https://youtu.be/r3UjxGvTCBY
Your completely missing the point. It’s giving certain people a large advantage. Yes racing is supposed to fun, it’s also supposed to be fair.
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10/2/2021 12:17pm
thejake - life aint fair. Your complaint is seriously invalid. We used to complain about the same thing when racing at altitude - some could afford to arrive two weeks early and acclimate, some can not...I suppose this too must be stopped. Some folks can afford InfinIT, some (flat) coke. Life is full of disparity (in some folks eyes). Seems to me, the only one not enjoying our lifestyles...well, is you.
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grambo
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CA
10/3/2021 12:58am
thejake - life aint fair. Your complaint is seriously invalid. We used to complain about the same thing when racing at altitude - some could afford...
thejake - life aint fair. Your complaint is seriously invalid. We used to complain about the same thing when racing at altitude - some could afford to arrive two weeks early and acclimate, some can not...I suppose this too must be stopped. Some folks can afford InfinIT, some (flat) coke. Life is full of disparity (in some folks eyes). Seems to me, the only one not enjoying our lifestyles...well, is you.
Nah, because this one is easy to regulate to prevent over-practicing advantage, no shuttling/no ebikes. Given they only release the tracks X amount of time before the race, you can enforce an even playing field (yes, local knowledge always plays into it, but taping/track conditions will impact the race).
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MOTO13
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Elkhorn, WI US
10/5/2021 1:00pm
Anyone who thinks that Emtb's are a flash in the pan is insane. Emtb's are the future, here to stay, WAY faster than acoustic and A LOT more fun. Hopefully everyone of you people that hate emtb's also hate the new RS Flight Attendant. You know, you shouldn't have an electrical advantage because you didn't earn it and it's not "acoustic" not organic. Technology sucks!! Lol...JK...ride whatever you want, but don't complain when someone blows by you.
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Batts
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Ballston Spa, NY US
10/5/2021 1:15pm
I have an e-bike and love it. But I agree with Profro, you should practice on the same bike you are going to race. Now if someone shows up the prior weekend and rides it whether on a regular bike or e-bike there is no way to stop that. Same as local advantage.
I also agree with some of the others about grassroots racing being fun and there are way too many things that people take too seriously, amateur enduro racing is one of them.
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TEAMROBOT
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
10/5/2021 2:34pm
I agree with FLFlatLander. Life isn't fair and I want my kid to know that, so I stole his ice cream cone and spit in his face to teach him. When he cried I told him "LIFE ISN'T FAIR AND YOU CAN'T FIX THE WORLD GET USED TO IT CRYBABY"
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10/5/2021 2:55pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
I agree with FLFlatLander. Life isn't fair and I want my kid to know that, so I stole his ice cream cone and spit in his...
I agree with FLFlatLander. Life isn't fair and I want my kid to know that, so I stole his ice cream cone and spit in his face to teach him. When he cried I told him "LIFE ISN'T FAIR AND YOU CAN'T FIX THE WORLD GET USED TO IT CRYBABY"
I don't know about stealing the kid's ice cream cone but as a parent I assume you paid for it..Tongue
jimmypop
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146
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Location
GU US
10/6/2021 3:43am
Ah, the brain trust has arrived. The Vital forums always deliver. Proof that undiagnosed brain injuries are a big issue in mountain biking.

Profro, just get a moto for practice, and run a few of these kids down. After all, life isn't fair.
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