Why are there still no 200mm+ Enduro bikes?

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TEAMROBOT
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Fantasy
2/26/2020 10:47am Edited Date/Time 2/26/2020 10:51am
"I usually am not one to 'hate ride' a trail over and over. Im sure its a spirtual exercise on some level in order to make a person better but Im too shallow."

I highly recommend it. If you ignore the hate it never goes away, it just festers in a small corner somewhere deep down inside. I also recommend hate riding bikes that suck, are too heavy, etc. You travel through the hate, and on the other side you're more appreciative. For instance, I actually appreciate riding Sandy Ridge now.

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scary
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2/26/2020 10:57am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
"I usually am not one to 'hate ride' a trail over and over. Im sure its a spirtual exercise on some level in order to make...
"I usually am not one to 'hate ride' a trail over and over. Im sure its a spirtual exercise on some level in order to make a person better but Im too shallow."

I highly recommend it. If you ignore the hate it never goes away, it just festers in a small corner somewhere deep down inside. I also recommend hate riding bikes that suck, are too heavy, etc. You travel through the hate, and on the other side you're more appreciative. For instance, I actually appreciate riding Sandy Ridge now.

See? Spiritual Gangster stuff.
I had to craft my words lightly,as Ive got a bit of a migraine going and not really up to the task of going toe to toe with you todayWink How you been, Chuck? Bet its nice to be back in the mtns...even if they pumpy-flow-imba-suck...in the cold rain
_Lan
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2/27/2020 2:15am
Just did a 30km xc/all mountain ride with 900 meters of elevation. Kept up with an xc guy on a hardtail on steep fire roads too.

Really feel a properly designed downhill bike with compromises for climbing can work as a quiver killer

Maybe not for everyone particulaly those of smaller stature since there isn't any way to get around the high stack height.
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StudBeefpile
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2/28/2020 2:47pm
@ NF-31

I think your answering exactly why there arn't more long travel/freeride/enduro whatever you call it bikes. The largest group of people in our sport who are spending money on bikes is the new rider or intermediate class rider. People who only have been in the sport for under five years.

Same reason why the most ridden trail at Whistler is Crank it up. The average rider is barely able to clear a 10 foot perfectly constructed table. They arn't interested in tech of ANY difficulty level.

So I think a lot of tech has gone that way. Making bikes more fun for the masses and less for the small section of people who are freeriding. I think this is why you see most people who are riding rowdy stuff on DH bikes these days.
2/28/2020 7:53pm Edited Date/Time 2/28/2020 7:55pm
I’ve done some 10 ft drops on my previous gen Hightower. Obviously gotta have a pretty choice area to land and I usually bottom out but I wouldn’t want to do that on ‘13 fuel ex. Modern suspension may not be the most tuneable (at least by mortals) but it’s light years ahead in reliability especially without ultra frequent servicing. Only area I see needing more development is tires and wheels. This is where I have majority of my issues in races or ride ending breakdowns.
Pedal4life
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2/29/2020 7:39am
Seen this while scanning videos on You Tube
jeff.brines
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Grand Junction, CO US
3/2/2020 2:38pm Edited Date/Time 3/2/2020 2:43pm
@NF-31

I could spend the better part of the hour showing everyone who reads your conspiracy theorist victim based rant fest how ill founded your facts are. You really ought to start a tin foil hat thread somewhere else lol.

You aren't a victim of an industry that is somehow forcing you into riding worse product with less choices. That's not how markets work. I'm guessing economics have never been a strong suit for you.

While there will always be room for improvement, or some sort of pivot in any space, the idea that "the industry" somehow gathers behind closed doors and decides what to ram down our throats is hilarious at best.

I'm very confident when I say "its a hell of a time to be a bike rider; you get so much performance for so little money its amazing".

I'm even willing to put my money where my mouth is. I'd happily take a $3K Nukeproof and ride it in any enduro race in the world. The kicker? I know I wouldn't be able to blame my bike if (when) my results suck. The bike industry is realizing the Pareto principle on steroids.

Have you owned something like the CanyoneTorque? Santa Cruz Nomad? Specialized Enduro (new one)? Any of the 170-180mm "super enduro" bikes? You still think you need more travel?

Are you secretly Josh Bender sans 15 years?

The poster asked a question. "Why don't we have 200mm enduro bikes". The answer, clearly, is they don't work as well for enduro purpose as the bikes we have. Racing is really good at vetting ideas and seeing what works. Sometimes the wheels of R&D turn too slowly, sometimes ideas are just plain bad and sometimes they are just too niche. I'd say this one is just too niche.

If you want to ride a 200mm "enduro" bike, go for it. For a certain type of rider, it makes total sense! But it won't be faster, and it won't be all that more capable. It might be more comfortable however, and it might be a pile of fun! The best part is there really isn't anything in the way of you doing this. There are frames that you could buy that'd totally work!

That isn't the bike industry oppressing you. Its just how the industry has evolved to better serve a market (of more riders, riding more trails...)


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_Lan
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3/3/2020 2:31pm
Canfield one.2

Canfield just released the one.2. They're marketing it as a pedalable downhill bike. Seat angle looks great for seated pedaling hopefully not too much kickback on a wide range cassette.
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jeff.brines
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3/3/2020 4:07pm
_Lan wrote:
[url=https://canfieldbikes.com/collections/2020-one-2]Canfield one.2[/url] Canfield just released the one.2. They're marketing it as a pedalable downhill bike. Seat angle looks great for seated pedaling hopefully not too much...
Canfield one.2

Canfield just released the one.2. They're marketing it as a pedalable downhill bike. Seat angle looks great for seated pedaling hopefully not too much kickback on a wide range cassette.
It looks rad too. You beat em to the punch eh _Lan. (again, nice work on putting your money where your mouth is!)
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_Lan
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3/3/2020 7:35pm
It looks rad too. You beat em to the punch eh _Lan. (again, nice work on putting your money where your mouth is!)
Thanks, it was a small financial risk and it turned out well in the end. Got the bike I've always wanted based on my current understanding of suspension kinematics and experience with bike geometry.

Climbed with the bike again today to get to the trail head and it felt great. Didn't Bob at all when seated.

I predict we'll be seeing more bikes like the Canfield one.2 this year. A 29er Jedi would be awesome and not too disimilar to my bike.
3/4/2020 9:56am
Intense Uzzi last generation before discontinuation.. I think that bike it's closer to the DH cat than to Enduro.. Offset bushing dual crown, long shock, dropper, voila.. Same for delirium... Pedal damn it
4/5/2020 7:16pm Edited Date/Time 4/13/2020 5:48pm
1st of all, that bike you made is sick. 2nd, the only reason I see for people to not make 200mm enduro bikes is because they don't need to. 170-180mm gets the job done for what they're meant for. It's the same reason we don't see 230mm downhill bikes in main production, it's just not necessary.
Fred_Pop
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4/6/2020 3:10am
_Lan wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/02/24/9250/s1200_IMG_20200221_113657_1.jpg[/img] So I designed this thing, a 205-220mm travel (currently at 215mm) Downhill bike. I've been riding it almost everyday since I was able to tune...


So I designed this thing, a 205-220mm travel (currently at 215mm) Downhill bike. I've been riding it almost everyday since I was able to tune the suspension to my liking (ditched the harsh EXT for an X2). It performs very nicely as a downhill bike going down yet still climbs like any other efficient enduro bike can.

Sure, enduro bikes have become more capable and are creeping up to downhill travel numbers but why don't bike companies just go all the way. They keep teasing us with slight increments every year.

There must be a market for such bikes, I'm enjoying mine so much.
200mm travel "enduro"/trail bikes would be a great thing for rougher terrain.
Nicolai allow you to customize their G1 to have more travel if you want it.
Paul Aston has big wheeled 200mm G1 and loves it!

https://www.instagram.com/astonmtb/

I do agree that if you don't have the terrain for it then it is too much bike but then so is a 180mm or 160mm bike depending on where you ride!
Fred_Pop
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4/6/2020 3:14am
macca208 wrote:
You lost me at "harsh EXT" not sure of its possible to use those words in the same sentence..
Lol, so true!
Fred_Pop
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4/6/2020 3:37am
Pedal4life wrote:
Correct me if I’m wrong beings I’m not much of a park but, are some of the park trails marked as dual crown forks only. I...
Correct me if I’m wrong beings I’m not much of a park but, are some of the park trails marked as dual crown forks only. I had heard that Mammoth has trails marked like this?

So my original thought was especially because there’s sooo many 160mm+ travel Enduro bikes out there and a lighter duty 15mm axle dual crown would be the perfect park bike tool.
The weight difference between a 15mm and 20mm axle isn't significant the difference in stiffness is. Why settle for less?
1
4/13/2020 5:46pm
I was thinking about this topic a bit ago, and with the official intro of the Fox 38 I realized that there should totally be more enduro bikes with double crown forks. Not with necessarily 200mm travel, but maybe 180mm or 170mm double crown forks. It seems that the suspension (and mountain bike in general) industry is in a race for stiffness, and double crown is as stiff as it gets. There seems to be this stigma around DC forks, however, that they should only be for descending, so the SC forks are getting wider and wider for stiffness purposes. But the question poses itself, what's stiffer, a Fox 38 or a 35mm stanchioned Rockshox Boxxer? I see no reason why a pro enduro racer wouldn't run a shorter travel DC fork on their bike besides the fact that they aren't really made (BTW credit to @pedal4life's pic, that's basically what I'm talking about). They're not that much heavier, but are that much stiffer, and if placed on the right bike, wouldn't be harder to pedal uphill at all, while providing DH-like stiffness on the DH-like tracks they race. I hope to see DC forks being a more common sight in the enduro circuit over the next 10 years.
TEAMROBOT
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4/13/2020 6:57pm
Just for funzies I checked weights on some single crown vs. dual crown forks, all in 29". Only 150 grams difference between a new 38 and an existing Boxxer Ultimate.

Fox 38: 2430 grams
New 2021 Rockshox Zeb: no one knows
Rockshox Boxxer Ultimate: 2580 grams
Fox 40: 2816 grams


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-new-fox-38-fork-pond-beaver-20…
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/rockshox-boxxer-ultimate-susp…
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-fox-36-38-40-pond-beaver-2020…
1
4/13/2020 7:21pm
I was thinking about this topic a bit ago, and with the official intro of the Fox 38 I realized that there should totally be more...
I was thinking about this topic a bit ago, and with the official intro of the Fox 38 I realized that there should totally be more enduro bikes with double crown forks. Not with necessarily 200mm travel, but maybe 180mm or 170mm double crown forks. It seems that the suspension (and mountain bike in general) industry is in a race for stiffness, and double crown is as stiff as it gets. There seems to be this stigma around DC forks, however, that they should only be for descending, so the SC forks are getting wider and wider for stiffness purposes. But the question poses itself, what's stiffer, a Fox 38 or a 35mm stanchioned Rockshox Boxxer? I see no reason why a pro enduro racer wouldn't run a shorter travel DC fork on their bike besides the fact that they aren't really made (BTW credit to @pedal4life's pic, that's basically what I'm talking about). They're not that much heavier, but are that much stiffer, and if placed on the right bike, wouldn't be harder to pedal uphill at all, while providing DH-like stiffness on the DH-like tracks they race. I hope to see DC forks being a more common sight in the enduro circuit over the next 10 years.
The big S had a trail bike with dual crowns a while back, im thinking they probably ditched them because of weight, but now days it makes a bit more sense.
I am not the biggest fan of pedaling up hill, but if I had to dismount when riding up steep switchback because my turn radius is to big because I was running a dual crown fork, I would probably swap them out for a single crown option.
4/13/2020 7:58pm
I was thinking about this topic a bit ago, and with the official intro of the Fox 38 I realized that there should totally be more...
I was thinking about this topic a bit ago, and with the official intro of the Fox 38 I realized that there should totally be more enduro bikes with double crown forks. Not with necessarily 200mm travel, but maybe 180mm or 170mm double crown forks. It seems that the suspension (and mountain bike in general) industry is in a race for stiffness, and double crown is as stiff as it gets. There seems to be this stigma around DC forks, however, that they should only be for descending, so the SC forks are getting wider and wider for stiffness purposes. But the question poses itself, what's stiffer, a Fox 38 or a 35mm stanchioned Rockshox Boxxer? I see no reason why a pro enduro racer wouldn't run a shorter travel DC fork on their bike besides the fact that they aren't really made (BTW credit to @pedal4life's pic, that's basically what I'm talking about). They're not that much heavier, but are that much stiffer, and if placed on the right bike, wouldn't be harder to pedal uphill at all, while providing DH-like stiffness on the DH-like tracks they race. I hope to see DC forks being a more common sight in the enduro circuit over the next 10 years.
stringbean wrote:
The big S had a trail bike with dual crowns a while back, im thinking they probably ditched them because of weight, but now days it...
The big S had a trail bike with dual crowns a while back, im thinking they probably ditched them because of weight, but now days it makes a bit more sense.
I am not the biggest fan of pedaling up hill, but if I had to dismount when riding up steep switchback because my turn radius is to big because I was running a dual crown fork, I would probably swap them out for a single crown option.
Right but techy climbs aren't really what enduro bikes are for, at least at the EWS level. when I think enduro, I think fire roads and dh runs. But yeah, If my riding consisted partially of tech climbs, I would want a SC fork, and honestly shorter travel all around than what I consider "enduro".
1
Big Bird
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4/13/2020 8:16pm
Over the years I've had trail bikes with DCs and would also just go out for trail rides on my Super 8 and I don't recall ever being put out about my turning radius.
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scary
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Scottsdale, AZ US
4/13/2020 8:40pm
I do it now. Its only an issue on very tight turns. Every where else its great
4/14/2020 2:01am
I guess 200mm "enduro" bike would be not that good on an EWS (which seems to be a lot nimblier than DH courses), for an EWS guy at least.

I don't really find more than 150/160mm useful outside huge jumps and bikeparks with brake bumps...
4/14/2020 2:39am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Just for funzies I checked weights on some single crown vs. dual crown forks, all in 29". Only 150 grams difference between a new 38 and...
Just for funzies I checked weights on some single crown vs. dual crown forks, all in 29". Only 150 grams difference between a new 38 and an existing Boxxer Ultimate.

Fox 38: 2430 grams
New 2021 Rockshox Zeb: no one knows
Rockshox Boxxer Ultimate: 2580 grams
Fox 40: 2816 grams


https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-ride-new-fox-38-fork-pond-beaver-20…
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/rockshox-boxxer-ultimate-susp…
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/first-look-fox-36-38-40-pond-beaver-2020…
Drop coil conversion on fox 36 and you have the same weight of fox 38 and a waaaay better fork.. push does up to 170, vorsprung up to 180mm.
1/12/2025 12:19am
_Lan wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmtb.com/photos/forums/2020/02/24/9250/s1200_IMG_20200221_113657_1.jpg[/img] So I designed this thing, a 205-220mm travel (currently at 215mm) Downhill bike. I've been riding it almost everyday since I was able to tune...


So I designed this thing, a 205-220mm travel (currently at 215mm) Downhill bike. I've been riding it almost everyday since I was able to tune the suspension to my liking (ditched the harsh EXT for an X2). It performs very nicely as a downhill bike going down yet still climbs like any other efficient enduro bike can.

Sure, enduro bikes have become more capable and are creeping up to downhill travel numbers but why don't bike companies just go all the way. They keep teasing us with slight increments every year.

There must be a market for such bikes, I'm enjoying mine so much.

Hello, I have just come across your enduro mountain bike. Do you have the capacity to make 3 of these and to skip them to the UK, one in extra large S6, two in large S5, and one in medium S3? s = specialized specification

1

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