I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off...
I've got a vivid air on three different bikes. One of them has a wps tune that I think is outstanding, the other is an off the shelf tune for a stumpjumper that i think is terrible, and the last one is an off the shelf tune for an enduro that i think is ok - so i think tune matters more than anything?
I'm not that surprised the WPS does much better. Any aftermarket tune I have seen (Fluid Focus, M-ST, WPS) uses a mid valve with much larger...
I'm not that surprised the WPS does much better. Any aftermarket tune I have seen (Fluid Focus, M-ST, WPS) uses a mid valve with much larger rebound ports. But sure, shock tunes matter, too.
I found the vivid to be harsh when dialing in compression, at least compared to an ohlins coil. I got the tune done with the wps piston kit, so definitely conflated. But for the price of the vivid with a wps piston kit or just for the price of the piston kit as a whole, my experience has been so positive that I see myself doing it for the next x2 i plan to purchase.
edit: i don't like that charger dampers for how harsh they feel to me when turning up the compression, but the whole wps experience has been eye opening enough that i plan to send a couple 3.1s in for their respective kit as well... which really puts the telums price tag into perspective - you dont have to send it out for more hardware and a tune.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you...
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I...
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?
In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I was listening on speakerphone) and they said that they can't do tunes on their shocks and we'd have to get it tuned somewhere else.
If that's changed since then, that would be awesome!
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.
Luckily, there are still other places in the US that can get you sorted on a Rockshox re-tune:
Traction Works in Portland
Fluid Focus near San Diego
Cascade Suspension Works in southern Oregon
Shell Bike in Albany, Oregon
Square Edge Suspension in Seattle
Wheel Sport in Spokane
Stillwell Performance in Phoenix
Diaz Suspension Design in Durango
All of them would be able to install a different off the shelf RS tune if you know what you need for your bike, most of them would be able to help you figure out which off the shelf tune you need, and many of them also offer their own custom hardware for RS shocks (Fluid Focus for sure, and maybe Diaz? And I know Traction Works is a Vorsprung-licensed tuning hub for installing Tractive tunes.
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly...
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly happy with it, but I guess I’m better off keeping my Push 11.6 gen 1
Found this on the Evil website:
Evil V4 Shock Recommendations
Because they don't recommend different tunes for different size bikes or rider weights you'd have to assume those are for the average 70-80kg male.
Super Deluxe C26 R55 I have dyno plots for both those.
C26, it's very soft compression. Softer than the L compression tunes in the 2018-22 Super Deluxe Air shocks. R55 is a very firm/slow rebound tune.
Vivid C22X2S18 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide suggests it's softer than C26 Vivid R54 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide shows it's a preloaded rebound tune.
There are several bike brands that like to spec very soft compression tunes in all their rear shocks. Specialized is the major one even on their high leverage bikes. Looks like Evil is doing the same. I have no idea why they do this.
Another analogy - trail data or rider feedback is like going to the doctor - they will ask you questions, measure heart rate and blood pressure...
Another analogy - trail data or rider feedback is like going to the doctor - they will ask you questions, measure heart rate and blood pressure - thats like data acquisition and finding the symptoms, but getting more answers needs something like blood tests or an x-ray. They might not tell you the actual cause but they give much more information about whats going on
It’s worth picking this up, it’s quite apt.
The missing piece in healthcare and really any mtb set up is understanding what ‘healthy’ or ‘dialled’ means to the person. Highly trained professionals in any profession can really struggle when their vocabulary and understanding is so different to colloquial understanding and explanation.
Plenty of super smart doctors solve the wrong problems really well and end up with pissed off patients or high costs of care, and suspension is very similar - assuming the basics of the shock condition are good, after that it’s going to be largely dictated by what the customer wants, not what the tuner or dyno says is ‘right’.
The upshot is how testing and validating is so important, which is why set up / tuning days are so awesome. I see @TheSuspensionLabNZ does run those. I wish more people able to both tune and communicate did!
For rockshox, they actually make unique SKU for popular bike model. I know especially for Santa Cruz, Rockshox often have unique sku with the correct tune for most models.
As an example, HLC in Canada list the vivid ultimate D1 for both current gen bronson part number 00.4118.547.020 and for the vala part number 00.4118.547.021
HLC doesn't have either in stock but atleast your LBS know that it can be ordered at Sram without fully tearing down a new shock to put the proper shim stack tune in it.
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly...
Was considering trying an air shock and the Rs super deluxe ultimate is tuned for my offering v4 by Evil and people seem to be mostly happy with it, but I guess I’m better off keeping my Push 11.6 gen 1
Found this on the Evil website:Because they don't recommend different tunes for different size bikes or rider weights you'd have to assume those are for the...
Found this on the Evil website:
Evil V4 Shock Recommendations
Because they don't recommend different tunes for different size bikes or rider weights you'd have to assume those are for the average 70-80kg male.
Super Deluxe C26 R55 I have dyno plots for both those.
C26, it's very soft compression. Softer than the L compression tunes in the 2018-22 Super Deluxe Air shocks. R55 is a very firm/slow rebound tune.
Vivid C22X2S18 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide suggests it's softer than C26 Vivid R54 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide shows it's a preloaded rebound tune.
There are several bike brands that like to spec very soft compression tunes in all their rear shocks. Specialized is the major one even on their high leverage bikes. Looks like Evil is doing the same. I have no idea why they do this.
My guess is that the linkages gives you a fair amount of support and therefore it’s not so much needed from the shock unlike some bikes that just dive and die under your weight if not running a stiff setup
My guess is that the linkages gives you a fair amount of support and therefore it’s not so much needed from the shock unlike some bikes...
My guess is that the linkages gives you a fair amount of support and therefore it’s not so much needed from the shock unlike some bikes that just dive and die under your weight if not running a stiff setup
Linkages can't do that though.....
You're only held up by springs and compression damping. Springs need to dive to resist each body movement and they do that more without enough compressin damping. Compression damping works when the suspension is moving, gives you support in the transition and reduces the speed and amount of dive. It also prevents/reduces bottomout events by absorbing, and not returning, bump energy.
If you have less compression damping you need a lot more spring rate to stop wallow and bottom-out. Then you need more rebound damping to control the bigger spring and absorb more stored spring energy. So your suspension ends up hard and dead feeling.
Linkages can't do that though.....You're only held up by springs and compression damping. Springs need to dive to resist each body movement and they do that...
Linkages can't do that though.....
You're only held up by springs and compression damping. Springs need to dive to resist each body movement and they do that more without enough compressin damping. Compression damping works when the suspension is moving, gives you support in the transition and reduces the speed and amount of dive. It also prevents/reduces bottomout events by absorbing, and not returning, bump energy.
If you have less compression damping you need a lot more spring rate to stop wallow and bottom-out. Then you need more rebound damping to control the bigger spring and absorb more stored spring energy. So your suspension ends up hard and dead feeling.
A linkage in and of itself cannot. A linkage can 100% make a set up that is more supportive not sit too high in travel and not feel overly harsh towards top of travel. If someone were to not need that level out of support out of the shock, they certainly could run less compression damping and not be wrong. It’s not like the leverage curve is pushing the spring rate so high that rebound can’t be tuned to match.
At the end of the day I wouldn’t necessarily say a manufacturers recommended tune for a bike is the end all be all for what you should look for. I’ve definitely ridden some bikes where the stock tune that was specified was not good. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they think people should want and that’s inherently not correct for every person out there.
Going back to the Offering, I think the real reason for the softer compression tune is the shock stroke. Many 150 mm bikes are running a 55 mm stroke whereas it’s using a 60 mm stroke. If the goal were to have comparable damping force at the wheel for a given shaft speed, that would on average be a 16% softer tune on the 60 mm stroke. Is a super soft tune the right thing? Depends on who you are. But definitely would make sense for it to be notably softer than a gen 4 turbo levo shock for example.
A linkage in and of itself cannot. A linkage can 100% make a set up that is more supportive not sit too high in travel and...
A linkage in and of itself cannot. A linkage can 100% make a set up that is more supportive not sit too high in travel and not feel overly harsh towards top of travel. If someone were to not need that level out of support out of the shock, they certainly could run less compression damping and not be wrong. It’s not like the leverage curve is pushing the spring rate so high that rebound can’t be tuned to match.
At the end of the day I wouldn’t necessarily say a manufacturers recommended tune for a bike is the end all be all for what you should look for. I’ve definitely ridden some bikes where the stock tune that was specified was not good. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they think people should want and that’s inherently not correct for every person out there.
Going back to the Offering, I think the real reason for the softer compression tune is the shock stroke. Many 150 mm bikes are running a 55 mm stroke whereas it’s using a 60 mm stroke. If the goal were to have comparable damping force at the wheel for a given shaft speed, that would on average be a 16% softer tune on the 60 mm stroke. Is a super soft tune the right thing? Depends on who you are. But definitely would make sense for it to be notably softer than a gen 4 turbo levo shock for example.
Compression damping is ultimately matched to spring rate and spring rate is determined by weight and leverage. The linkage determines the leverage curve of that and as we both know there are endless possibilities there. There are good sized tuning windows for more/less compression damping vs spring options. But we see bike companies delivering special shock tunes that are way outside those and make no sense at all.
On the extreme end we had a big customer on a Specialized Levo that needed 5 times more compression damping than his bike had stock. You're talking 120kg rider on a shock compression tune that would work well for a 30-40kg kid.
The harder the rider works, the more energy they put into the bike and the more compression damping they need. If they don't have enough the bike will feel unstable at speed.
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you...
Worth mentioning that Rockshox and Fox will both re-tune shocks for customers (for around $225 USD), and as a part of that service they help you identify the right tune for your bike. They won't always have a perfect answer, but a lot of the time they've already worked with the brand to sort out tunes for their bikes, so they often times they can tell you the tune that your bike's brand recommends. If they don't have that exact information, they're also pretty helpful at making educated guesses, and they have all the same resources at their disposal to determine the best tune for your bike as most aftermarket suspension tuners.
It's not apples to apples the same thing as a Vorsprung Tractive Tune or a Fluid Focus rebuild or an Avalanche tune, because those tuners are also substituting some of their own proprietary hardware into the shock, but I didn't know that Fox or Rockshox even offered this service for the longest time, and it was great for me to learn that this option is available through Fox or Rockshox.
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I...
When did you check in with Rockshox about that service?
In December 2025 I had my bike shop reach out to them over the phone (while I was listening on speakerphone) and they said that they can't do tunes on their shocks and we'd have to get it tuned somewhere else.
If that's changed since then, that would be awesome!
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.Luckily, there are still other places in the US that...
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.
Luckily, there are still other places in the US that can get you sorted on a Rockshox re-tune:
Traction Works in Portland
Fluid Focus near San Diego
Cascade Suspension Works in southern Oregon
Shell Bike in Albany, Oregon
Square Edge Suspension in Seattle
Wheel Sport in Spokane
Stillwell Performance in Phoenix
Diaz Suspension Design in Durango
All of them would be able to install a different off the shelf RS tune if you know what you need for your bike, most of them would be able to help you figure out which off the shelf tune you need, and many of them also offer their own custom hardware for RS shocks (Fluid Focus for sure, and maybe Diaz? And I know Traction Works is a Vorsprung-licensed tuning hub for installing Tractive tunes.
That might have been a temporary thing. When we talked to them the process was limited to buying the Deluxe Ultimate from them, having it shipped to us (this is when Rockshox would exit the transaction completely), us sending to a shock tuner, the tuner then tuning and sending back. I couldn't even get RS to send the shock directly to the tuner to save on shipping costs. I can't remember anymore but I think the tuners we talked to at the time were Fluid Focus and Diaz. I think there was maybe one more but I can't remember...we made a lot of phone calls that day.
Fox said my dealer could purchase directly from Fox and if they specify the specific bike's tune we want, they'd do that tune for a fee (on top of the retail price of the shock) if it's already in their tuning library. Meaning, I couldn't ask for a Fox Float and call out a tuning spec, I had to ask for a specific bike's tuned shock (Yeti told me it was part number 972-87-156) and they'll take one of their retail, medium-tuned shocks and retune it to hit that spec.
I found the vivid to be harsh when dialing in compression, at least compared to an ohlins coil. I got the tune done with the wps piston kit, so definitely conflated. But for the price of the vivid with a wps piston kit or just for the price of the piston kit as a whole, my experience has been so positive that I see myself doing it for the next x2 i plan to purchase.
edit: i don't like that charger dampers for how harsh they feel to me when turning up the compression, but the whole wps experience has been eye opening enough that i plan to send a couple 3.1s in for their respective kit as well... which really puts the telums price tag into perspective - you dont have to send it out for more hardware and a tune.
That' sucks! If Rockshox won't do re-tunes for customers on their own shocks that's news to me.
Luckily, there are still other places in the US that can get you sorted on a Rockshox re-tune:
All of them would be able to install a different off the shelf RS tune if you know what you need for your bike, most of them would be able to help you figure out which off the shelf tune you need, and many of them also offer their own custom hardware for RS shocks (Fluid Focus for sure, and maybe Diaz? And I know Traction Works is a Vorsprung-licensed tuning hub for installing Tractive tunes.
Found this on the Evil website:
Because they don't recommend different tunes for different size bikes or rider weights you'd have to assume those are for the average 70-80kg male.
Super Deluxe C26 R55 I have dyno plots for both those.
C26, it's very soft compression. Softer than the L compression tunes in the 2018-22 Super Deluxe Air shocks.
R55 is a very firm/slow rebound tune.
Vivid C22X2S18 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide suggests it's softer than C26
Vivid R54 I don't have plots for. The Rockshox Piston Tuning guide shows it's a preloaded rebound tune.
There are several bike brands that like to spec very soft compression tunes in all their rear shocks. Specialized is the major one even on their high leverage bikes. Looks like Evil is doing the same. I have no idea why they do this.
It’s worth picking this up, it’s quite apt.
The missing piece in healthcare and really any mtb set up is understanding what ‘healthy’ or ‘dialled’ means to the person. Highly trained professionals in any profession can really struggle when their vocabulary and understanding is so different to colloquial understanding and explanation.
Plenty of super smart doctors solve the wrong problems really well and end up with pissed off patients or high costs of care, and suspension is very similar - assuming the basics of the shock condition are good, after that it’s going to be largely dictated by what the customer wants, not what the tuner or dyno says is ‘right’.
The upshot is how testing and validating is so important, which is why set up / tuning days are so awesome. I see @TheSuspensionLabNZ does run those. I wish more people able to both tune and communicate did!
For rockshox, they actually make unique SKU for popular bike model. I know especially for Santa Cruz, Rockshox often have unique sku with the correct tune for most models.
As an example, HLC in Canada list the vivid ultimate D1 for both current gen bronson part number 00.4118.547.020 and for the vala part number 00.4118.547.021
HLC doesn't have either in stock but atleast your LBS know that it can be ordered at Sram without fully tearing down a new shock to put the proper shim stack tune in it.
My guess is that the linkages gives you a fair amount of support and therefore it’s not so much needed from the shock unlike some bikes that just dive and die under your weight if not running a stiff setup
Linkages can't do that though.....
You're only held up by springs and compression damping. Springs need to dive to resist each body movement and they do that more without enough compressin damping.
Compression damping works when the suspension is moving, gives you support in the transition and reduces the speed and amount of dive. It also prevents/reduces bottomout events by absorbing, and not returning, bump energy.
If you have less compression damping you need a lot more spring rate to stop wallow and bottom-out. Then you need more rebound damping to control the bigger spring and absorb more stored spring energy. So your suspension ends up hard and dead feeling.
A linkage in and of itself cannot. A linkage can 100% make a set up that is more supportive not sit too high in travel and not feel overly harsh towards top of travel. If someone were to not need that level out of support out of the shock, they certainly could run less compression damping and not be wrong. It’s not like the leverage curve is pushing the spring rate so high that rebound can’t be tuned to match.
At the end of the day I wouldn’t necessarily say a manufacturers recommended tune for a bike is the end all be all for what you should look for. I’ve definitely ridden some bikes where the stock tune that was specified was not good. It’s someone’s interpretation of what they think people should want and that’s inherently not correct for every person out there.
Going back to the Offering, I think the real reason for the softer compression tune is the shock stroke. Many 150 mm bikes are running a 55 mm stroke whereas it’s using a 60 mm stroke. If the goal were to have comparable damping force at the wheel for a given shaft speed, that would on average be a 16% softer tune on the 60 mm stroke. Is a super soft tune the right thing? Depends on who you are. But definitely would make sense for it to be notably softer than a gen 4 turbo levo shock for example.
Compression damping is ultimately matched to spring rate and spring rate is determined by weight and leverage. The linkage determines the leverage curve of that and as we both know there are endless possibilities there. There are good sized tuning windows for more/less compression damping vs spring options. But we see bike companies delivering special shock tunes that are way outside those and make no sense at all.
On the extreme end we had a big customer on a Specialized Levo that needed 5 times more compression damping than his bike had stock. You're talking 120kg rider on a shock compression tune that would work well for a 30-40kg kid.
The harder the rider works, the more energy they put into the bike and the more compression damping they need. If they don't have enough the bike will feel unstable at speed.
That might have been a temporary thing. When we talked to them the process was limited to buying the Deluxe Ultimate from them, having it shipped to us (this is when Rockshox would exit the transaction completely), us sending to a shock tuner, the tuner then tuning and sending back. I couldn't even get RS to send the shock directly to the tuner to save on shipping costs. I can't remember anymore but I think the tuners we talked to at the time were Fluid Focus and Diaz. I think there was maybe one more but I can't remember...we made a lot of phone calls that day.
Fox said my dealer could purchase directly from Fox and if they specify the specific bike's tune we want, they'd do that tune for a fee (on top of the retail price of the shock) if it's already in their tuning library. Meaning, I couldn't ask for a Fox Float and call out a tuning spec, I had to ask for a specific bike's tuned shock (Yeti told me it was part number 972-87-156) and they'll take one of their retail, medium-tuned shocks and retune it to hit that spec.
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