It's obviously more expensive to make different molds of different frames, but the one they choose to make is short because they like their bikes to...
It's obviously more expensive to make different molds of different frames, but the one they choose to make is short because they like their bikes to handle a certain way. They could chose to make all the frames with 445mm, 450mm or even longer chainstays, but historically they have done them all with 430. Even on long travel bikes lie the Reckoning and Insurgent, they chose to make them with 430mm stays. The CEO himself posted on his Instagram weekly Q&A that Evil and Dave Weagle believe and design the bikes to ride on short chainstays, but acknowledge the trend is currently to go long and size specific. He also gave a technical reason related to the DELTA suspension and the kinematics of the bike and how the rear end gets longer at for the first part of the travel and then short again.
Okay so a 435 chainstay is short for both a size small and an XL?
This makes zero sense. That size small is going to ride similar to an XL with a 460 chainstay.
So they’ve got a massive rear center for a small and an tiny one for an XL…
Is this really that difficult for people to understand?
Nobody’s buying a modern trail or enduro bike with a 66° head tube angle anymore. We need to stop pretending geometry is just “personal preference.” As...
Nobody’s buying a modern trail or enduro bike with a 66° head tube angle anymore. We need to stop pretending geometry is just “personal preference.” As the sport evolves, we learn what works — and some setups are objectively outdated. 26" wheels are dead. Steep head tube angles are dead. The list goes on.
Designing every frame size with the same 435mm chainstay is a cost-cutting move, plain and simple. Anyone who actually understands bike dynamics knows how critical chainstay length is to ride feel — and it makes zero sense for a size Small and a size XL to share the same rear-center, just like they don’t share the same reach or stack.
Evil will still sell bikes, sure, but this is clearly a risk/reward gamble. They’re betting most buyers won’t notice or care enough about size-specific chainstays to affect sales. I’m not convinced that’ll hold true long-term — this could end up being a costly miscalculation. Time will tell.
Evil knows exactly what people want. They know really short riders want really long chainstays, average height riders want medium chainstays and really tall riders like really short chainstays. If you’re a short ride who likes short chainstays, you should look at a different company. It just goes to show it’s rider preference, but riders of a different height, with the same style preference, need to buy different bikes. …
Evil knows exactly what people want. They know really short riders want really long chainstays, average height riders want medium chainstays and really tall riders like...
Evil knows exactly what people want. They know really short riders want really long chainstays, average height riders want medium chainstays and really tall riders like really short chainstays. If you’re a short ride who likes short chainstays, you should look at a different company. It just goes to show it’s rider preference, but riders of a different height, with the same style preference, need to buy different bikes. …
Today Evil launches the new Offering and they join us here to answer all your questions!Fire your queries to the Evil Bikes crew below.New...
Today Evil launches the new Offering and they join us here to answer all your questions!
Fire your queries to the Evil Bikes crew below.
New Offering Highlights
YOU WIN - IT'S NOT SUPERBOOST! (more on that below)
29-inch wheels
151mm travel, up 10mm from previous
Latest generation of DELTA + Geometry + Kinematics
Three different fork lengths - 160mm optimized but can run 150 or 170mm forks
Two Rip Chip positions (High/Low) to get:
Head Tube Angle Range of 63.5 deg to 65.2 deg.
Seat Tube Angle Range of 77.9 deg to 79.3 deg
Only requires removal and loosening of two bolts to change chip positions
Geometry compared to previous Offering
0.5 deg slacker HT angle – 64.7 to 64.2 degrees
5mm longer Chain Stay
20mm longer front center
2 degree steeper ST Angle – 77 deg to 79 deg
Virtual Top tube lost 33mm (size LG)
Reach is nearly identical
Boost 148 Rear Spacing with 55mm Chain Line
Boost Mode. The dust has settled, and the market has spoken. Evil-0, Industry-1. We’re back to Boost, baby! We’ve enlisted a Boost 148mm rear hub with 55mm chain line to maximize compatibility and provide a smoother, more compliant ride.
Reason for the change
Super Boost 56.5mm chain line allowed Evil to gain significant tire clearance as compared to an old style 52mm chain line.
Old style 52mm chain line combined with boost 148 rear end caused chain to skate down the cassette at even a slight hint of a back pedal from the rider. 56.5mm chain line and 157 Super Boost Rear end fixed this inherent boost chain line drivetrain performance issue.
New chain line standard is 55mm which allows for all the tire clearance we need.
New generation drivetrain designs are based off the 55mm chain line which vastly improves drivetrain performance
Hardware
Large main pivot, all other pivots forward of the seat tube result in minimal flex at each pivot
Longer lasting pivot bearings
8x30 lower shock hardware and longer lower shock bolt with a deeper broach
6mm fastener Trunnion bolts
Linkage bolts go from hollow to solid
Rear Axle
Lighter weight
6mm fastener head for added durability
174mm x 12mm size, 1.0 Thread Pitch
Frame Details
Cleaner silhouette, smoother cable routing
Lunchbox downtube storage with waterproof bag
Water bottle mount
Piggyback shock compatible
One piece rear triangle with significant rear-to-front triangle overlap
Updated sag indicator
New DELTA Links and Bone Links
Inside voice protection package
Side mount seat collar split
What didn’t change?
Bearing size
Main Pivot width
Main Pivot Spacers
Lower shock bolt expanding collet
Headset Spec – It is still angle headset compatible, though we believe the Head Tube is slack enough to not warrant use of an angle headset
Seat Collar 34.9mm collar for 30.9mm seat post diameter
Seat Post Diameter – 30.9mm
Carbon Internal guide tubes for super easy housing routing through the frame
2-Bolt ISCG Chain Guide and Bash Guard Tabs
73mm Threaded BSA Bottom Bracket
180mm Post Mount Rear Brake Mount
UDH Rear Hanger and Transmission Rear Derailleur compatible
Geometry Chart with 160 or 170mm fork
Build Options & Pricing
The Offering can be purchased as a frame-only or in a variety of build combos with RockShox suspension, SRAM drivetrains and brakes, Industry 9 wheels and Maxxis tires.
Well, call me a moron, but this 6’ 1” large frame riding person is going to buy this totally unrideable bike. I look forward to looping out, my front wheel washing on every turn, lack of stability over 8 mph, and curling up in the fetal position in the middle of every ride. I’ll report back.
Well, call me a moron, but this 6’ 1” large frame riding person is going to buy this totally unrideable bike. I look forward to looping...
Well, call me a moron, but this 6’ 1” large frame riding person is going to buy this totally unrideable bike. I look forward to looping out, my front wheel washing on every turn, lack of stability over 8 mph, and curling up in the fetal position in the middle of every ride. I’ll report back.
Maybe you'll love it, maybe you won't.. Either way, I'm guessing that it won't be terrible..
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be interesting if it could be run as a 140R/150F trail bike for majority of use, then converted back to 150/160 or 150/170 when traveling to somewhere with bigger trails. Or is there simply no benefit to that? I know DELTA has a complex leverage curve so changing stroke might get too outside the design magic.
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be...
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be interesting if it could be run as a 140R/150F trail bike for majority of use, then converted back to 150/160 or 150/170 when traveling to somewhere with bigger trails. Or is there simply no benefit to that? I know DELTA has a complex leverage curve so changing stroke might get too outside the design magic.
I’d just run the super deluxe to have the bike feeling “smaller” for your local trails
It’s impressive how fun and rewarding these bikes feel like regardless of the numbers
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be...
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be interesting if it could be run as a 140R/150F trail bike for majority of use, then converted back to 150/160 or 150/170 when traveling to somewhere with bigger trails. Or is there simply no benefit to that? I know DELTA has a complex leverage curve so changing stroke might get too outside the design magic.
Yeah they say it should only be run at 150mm rear travel. I forget the stroke.
Not really sure what short-stroking would accomplish. If the goal is to make the bike pedal better, just run less sag and keep the full stroke length — you’ll get a snappier feel under power and maintain the same bottom-out support.
Alternatively, try adding a bit more low-speed compression instead of changing the geometry.
Short-stroking and running 30% sag basically does the same thing as keeping the full stroke and reducing sag slightly. But if you want to preserve the same geometry, start with more LSC first.
Shorter stroke with the same eye to eye maintains the geometry, but I'm guessing it really won't change much for pedaling.. More sag would change geometry, but that can hurt pedaling.. But compression is a better thing to play with, like you said..
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be...
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be interesting if it could be run as a 140R/150F trail bike for majority of use, then converted back to 150/160 or 150/170 when traveling to somewhere with bigger trails. Or is there simply no benefit to that? I know DELTA has a complex leverage curve so changing stroke might get too outside the design magic.
Yeah they say it should only be run at 150mm rear travel. I forget the stroke.
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out, short only improves clearance. It's more about how it is affected by linkage curve.
Not really sure what short-stroking would accomplish. If the goal is to make the bike pedal better, just run less sag and keep the full stroke...
Not really sure what short-stroking would accomplish. If the goal is to make the bike pedal better, just run less sag and keep the full stroke length — you’ll get a snappier feel under power and maintain the same bottom-out support.
Alternatively, try adding a bit more low-speed compression instead of changing the geometry.
Short-stroking and running 30% sag basically does the same thing as keeping the full stroke and reducing sag slightly. But if you want to preserve the same geometry, start with more LSC first.
Yes, you can try more air pressure (or LSC) but that has negatives to it. Lose sensitivity and too much ramp. Going to a short stroke shock the idea is you change the compression ratio inside the shock as well as the starting volume. I think that if simple "more pressure/LSC" was the answer we would have 180mm XC bikes, but they're all 80-120. Also, efficient pedaling XC bikes tend to be more linear in their leverage curves, so losing some of that end ramp might not be a negative in this configuration. I'm more concerned with the early leverage since Evil has that dual progressive curve might mean a short stroke is too much in the soft zone and can't hold itself there anyways. Just like how heavy riders struggle to get sag with air shocks on Evil because the linkage just pushes right through that beginning without tons of air pressure.
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be...
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be interesting if it could be run as a 140R/150F trail bike for majority of use, then converted back to 150/160 or 150/170 when traveling to somewhere with bigger trails. Or is there simply no benefit to that? I know DELTA has a complex leverage curve so changing stroke might get too outside the design magic.
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out...
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out, short only improves clearance. It's more about how it is affected by linkage curve.
What’s your plan on sag if you short stroke it? Simply adding a couple psi (to achieve less sag) to the standard stroked shock will accomplish almost the same thing as short stroking and running 30% sag of that shorter stroke. Additionally, with the stroke shortened or running too little sag on properly stroked shock, you won’t be taking advantage of how the leverage curve (probably) ramps up at the very end like most Evils do. But I’m a hack, could be wrong.
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out...
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out, short only improves clearance. It's more about how it is affected by linkage curve.
What’s your plan on sag if you short stroke it? Simply adding a couple psi (to achieve less sag) to the standard stroked shock will accomplish...
What’s your plan on sag if you short stroke it? Simply adding a couple psi (to achieve less sag) to the standard stroked shock will accomplish almost the same thing as short stroking and running 30% sag of that shorter stroke. Additionally, with the stroke shortened or running too little sag on properly stroked shock, you won’t be taking advantage of how the leverage curve (probably) ramps up at the very end like most Evils do. But I’m a hack, could be wrong.
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out...
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out, short only improves clearance. It's more about how it is affected by linkage curve.
What’s your plan on sag if you short stroke it? Simply adding a couple psi (to achieve less sag) to the standard stroked shock will accomplish...
What’s your plan on sag if you short stroke it? Simply adding a couple psi (to achieve less sag) to the standard stroked shock will accomplish almost the same thing as short stroking and running 30% sag of that shorter stroke. Additionally, with the stroke shortened or running too little sag on properly stroked shock, you won’t be taking advantage of how the leverage curve (probably) ramps up at the very end like most Evils do. But I’m a hack, could be wrong.
Sorry we posted at the same time, I see your other post now. I think short stroking or over inflating it will make it not match the frame leverage properly. Although they don’t publish the kinematics so who knows.
Yes, you can try more air pressure (or LSC) but that has negatives to it. Lose sensitivity and too much ramp. Going to a short stroke...
Yes, you can try more air pressure (or LSC) but that has negatives to it. Lose sensitivity and too much ramp. Going to a short stroke shock the idea is you change the compression ratio inside the shock as well as the starting volume. I think that if simple "more pressure/LSC" was the answer we would have 180mm XC bikes, but they're all 80-120. Also, efficient pedaling XC bikes tend to be more linear in their leverage curves, so losing some of that end ramp might not be a negative in this configuration. I'm more concerned with the early leverage since Evil has that dual progressive curve might mean a short stroke is too much in the soft zone and can't hold itself there anyways. Just like how heavy riders struggle to get sag with air shocks on Evil because the linkage just pushes right through that beginning without tons of air pressure.
When you “short-stroke” a shock, I don’t think adding a travel reducer really changes how the shock behaves — it’s still the same size air can. The only real difference is that you’re running fewer millimeters of sag to hit the same 30% target, which means higher air pressure.
As mentioned earlier, you can get the exact same effect by keeping the full stroke and simply running less than 30% sag, while still maintaining full end-stroke support.
So in practice, short-stroking doesn’t accomplish much besides effectively running less sag and more pressure. It’s not comparable to adding a volume spacer or changing progression.
It seems like you're confusing the effect of short-stroking with something like adding a token in the negative air chamber.
Yes, you can try more air pressure (or LSC) but that has negatives to it. Lose sensitivity and too much ramp. Going to a short stroke...
Yes, you can try more air pressure (or LSC) but that has negatives to it. Lose sensitivity and too much ramp. Going to a short stroke shock the idea is you change the compression ratio inside the shock as well as the starting volume. I think that if simple "more pressure/LSC" was the answer we would have 180mm XC bikes, but they're all 80-120. Also, efficient pedaling XC bikes tend to be more linear in their leverage curves, so losing some of that end ramp might not be a negative in this configuration. I'm more concerned with the early leverage since Evil has that dual progressive curve might mean a short stroke is too much in the soft zone and can't hold itself there anyways. Just like how heavy riders struggle to get sag with air shocks on Evil because the linkage just pushes right through that beginning without tons of air pressure.
When you “short-stroke” a shock, I don’t think adding a travel reducer really changes how the shock behaves — it’s still the same size air can...
When you “short-stroke” a shock, I don’t think adding a travel reducer really changes how the shock behaves — it’s still the same size air can. The only real difference is that you’re running fewer millimeters of sag to hit the same 30% target, which means higher air pressure.
As mentioned earlier, you can get the exact same effect by keeping the full stroke and simply running less than 30% sag, while still maintaining full end-stroke support.
So in practice, short-stroking doesn’t accomplish much besides effectively running less sag and more pressure. It’s not comparable to adding a volume spacer or changing progression.
It seems like you're confusing the effect of short-stroking with something like adding a token in the negative air chamber.
In some shocks reducing the stroke also reduces the positive chamber volume.
Okay so a 435 chainstay is short for both a size small and an XL?
This makes zero sense. That size small is going to ride similar to an XL with a 460 chainstay.
So they’ve got a massive rear center for a small and an tiny one for an XL…
Is this really that difficult for people to understand?
Evil knows exactly what people want. They know really short riders want really long chainstays, average height riders want medium chainstays and really tall riders like really short chainstays. If you’re a short ride who likes short chainstays, you should look at a different company. It just goes to show it’s rider preference, but riders of a different height, with the same style preference, need to buy different bikes. …
By the way in the comparison with the previous offering there is a mistake, LS with a 150mm fork was 66.4 HTA or 65.9 with a 160mm
So the head angle change is 1.2 degrees with the same fork not 0.5
Not at all
Well, call me a moron, but this 6’ 1” large frame riding person is going to buy this totally unrideable bike. I look forward to looping out, my front wheel washing on every turn, lack of stability over 8 mph, and curling up in the fetal position in the middle of every ride. I’ll report back.
Maybe you'll love it, maybe you won't.. Either way, I'm guessing that it won't be terrible..
Not sure if Evil is still around after this thread got derailed. But if so; can the bike be short-stroked (and still perform properly)? Would be interesting if it could be run as a 140R/150F trail bike for majority of use, then converted back to 150/160 or 150/170 when traveling to somewhere with bigger trails. Or is there simply no benefit to that? I know DELTA has a complex leverage curve so changing stroke might get too outside the design magic.
I’d just run the super deluxe to have the bike feeling “smaller” for your local trails
It’s impressive how fun and rewarding these bikes feel like regardless of the numbers
Yeah they say it should only be run at 150mm rear travel. I forget the stroke.
Not really sure what short-stroking would accomplish. If the goal is to make the bike pedal better, just run less sag and keep the full stroke length — you’ll get a snappier feel under power and maintain the same bottom-out support.
Alternatively, try adding a bit more low-speed compression instead of changing the geometry.
Short-stroking and running 30% sag basically does the same thing as keeping the full stroke and reducing sag slightly. But if you want to preserve the same geometry, start with more LSC first.
Shorter stroke with the same eye to eye maintains the geometry, but I'm guessing it really won't change much for pedaling.. More sag would change geometry, but that can hurt pedaling.. But compression is a better thing to play with, like you said..
They say you can't long-stroke it, but can't find anything about short-stroke. There's no mechanical reason not to, long-stroke is a clearance issue at bottom out, short only improves clearance. It's more about how it is affected by linkage curve.
Yes, you can try more air pressure (or LSC) but that has negatives to it. Lose sensitivity and too much ramp. Going to a short stroke shock the idea is you change the compression ratio inside the shock as well as the starting volume. I think that if simple "more pressure/LSC" was the answer we would have 180mm XC bikes, but they're all 80-120. Also, efficient pedaling XC bikes tend to be more linear in their leverage curves, so losing some of that end ramp might not be a negative in this configuration. I'm more concerned with the early leverage since Evil has that dual progressive curve might mean a short stroke is too much in the soft zone and can't hold itself there anyways. Just like how heavy riders struggle to get sag with air shocks on Evil because the linkage just pushes right through that beginning without tons of air pressure.
What’s your plan on sag if you short stroke it? Simply adding a couple psi (to achieve less sag) to the standard stroked shock will accomplish almost the same thing as short stroking and running 30% sag of that shorter stroke. Additionally, with the stroke shortened or running too little sag on properly stroked shock, you won’t be taking advantage of how the leverage curve (probably) ramps up at the very end like most Evils do. But I’m a hack, could be wrong.
Read my other comment
Sorry we posted at the same time, I see your other post now. I think short stroking or over inflating it will make it not match the frame leverage properly. Although they don’t publish the kinematics so who knows.
When you “short-stroke” a shock, I don’t think adding a travel reducer really changes how the shock behaves — it’s still the same size air can. The only real difference is that you’re running fewer millimeters of sag to hit the same 30% target, which means higher air pressure.
As mentioned earlier, you can get the exact same effect by keeping the full stroke and simply running less than 30% sag, while still maintaining full end-stroke support.
So in practice, short-stroking doesn’t accomplish much besides effectively running less sag and more pressure. It’s not comparable to adding a volume spacer or changing progression.
It seems like you're confusing the effect of short-stroking with something like adding a token in the negative air chamber.
In some shocks reducing the stroke also reduces the positive chamber volume.
Do you know which shocks are affected? I was told on the Float X it does not have a meaningful difference in positive or negative volume.
If you weigh your travel spacers that should give you a good idea of what equivalent size volume spacer they are.
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