Ideal WC season?

smelly
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Colorado Springs, CO US
Time for some new threads in this place.

What's the "perfect" race season look like, track-wise? To me, it's a mix of a range of tracks and styles that allow different riders to shine. Long, big mountain tracks that encourage conservation and endurance. Short, fast, all-out tracks that encourage risk taking. Steep and gnarly track, smooth one-line tracks where you've gotta be perfect. Curated bike-park, rough and homespun.

Here's my list. It'd be killer to have a 9 race season at 8 venues with one double header

MSA
Vallnord
Windham
Lousa
Snowshoe (double header)
Les Gets
Lenzerheide
Champery

I'd love to see Leogang put a proper track together (always produces tight racing times but the track gets worse by the year, it's like they intentionally fight the mountain's natural terrain), and see big mountain make a 5+ minute track (Fort Bill, I'm looking at you. ), or even mix in a 10+ minute race like Garbanzo.

Maybe some of the lurker current and former pros can chime in, too.
1
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adamdigby
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San Juan Capistrano, CA US
12/2/2020 8:10pm
I would love to see a season including some current and some new/not used for a while venues.

Current Venues:
Val di Sole - Reimagine the course by shifting tape 20-50' l/r of the existing sections of track, basically make it the "smooth" rough of 2008 again. Find a way to tape the final left hander so the inside is a viable option and quicker than the berm but only usable by those willing to roll the dice.

Mont Saint Anne - Find a mostly new line down the hill. I know there are several very gnarly sections, if the Nico Vink Earthed segment is to be believed, which is doubtful because it looks so rough and probably just Hollywood tricks. Keep the same feel of the track extreme speed piste mixed with rough and tumble rocky woods. Try to promote multiple viable lines with taping.

Maribor - Just tape it 20-50' differently to avoid spots of that hardpack dirt and the hill's gradient/undulations will make for a fun track.

Les Gets - Tape slightly differently and use more hill if possible.

Lousa - That looked like a really really fun track to ride, would love to see what else they could put up.

"New" Venues:
Mt. Snow - Run something equivalent to the 2008 US national champs track.

Meribel - Run similar to 2014 but with 2 more jumps to flat

Val d'Isere - Same as 2012 but build the uphill jump over bush lip tall so it's a huge huck to flat or huger gap to backside. Also put the concrete roof drop back into the track.

Champery - Don't use much of the old track, just make something new 60' to the right. Or use an earth tiller and root re-grower to change the current conditions back to the old conditions.

Pila - Do the same as above.

Durango/Nevegal/Tahoe/Snoqualmie/Mammoth/Sierra Nevada/Any other dry dusty track - Dry, dusty, fast and fun.

New Venues:
Snowmass - This track is balls to the wall fast. Racing will be tight and if they have to for TV, +60' jumps could be added with ease. Similar to Les Gets in a lot of ways.

Any or all of the French cups/Nationals from this year - They all looked top notch, just widen the tape on them and we'd been on for an instant classic.

Slovakia - The terrain looks incredible https://www.pinkbike.com/video/268710/ https://www.pinkbike.com/video/205/ https://www.pinkbike.com/video/322828/

Somewhere totally different and dry - Karakoram mountains, China side of Himalayas, south side Himalayas India, Caucasus mountains in Russia/Georgia, Atlas mountains in Morocco


Would love to see big mountains and extremely rough tracks in the near future.


2
carterlindblom
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12/3/2020 11:19am
Snowshoe double header would be insane! They've actually begun construction on new features for the world cup track already (well they did and then were hit with a bunch of snow). I'd love to see venues with double headers do two completely different tracks and it would be awesome to have two world cup level tracks at snowshoe to ride.
2
Big Bird
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12/3/2020 5:09pm
I'd love to see the World Cup back on the West Coast somewhere in California, Oregon or Washington. Someone mentioned Snowqualmie. That Was a fun track. (Got second place Sport class and moved up to Expert.) Mammoth has the infrastructure. I think there may have been one in Big Bear in the distant past. Anything with crazy, floaty pumice soil to confuse the Euros. It was so much fun to watch. MY dream scenarios aside, again as has been said, if covid is going to prohibit spectators for the foreseeable future, it seems like the ideal moment to have races in more exotic places where the riding is amazing but there's only enough housing for riders, media and organization. Bali? Another Hawaii race with a bubble scenario? That quarantine would suck hugh? Alaska could probably find a location. A Bubble race in China where most of the bikes are made?
1
12/4/2020 3:35pm
keep the usual ones and add more:
Fort Bill (get rid or re-route the wood section)
Lousa (fine as is)
Val di sole (could use some new section but not too many)
Leogang (with the new lower wood)
MSA (same as VDS)
Andorra (fine as is)
Snowshoe (fine as is, still new)
Les Gets (rework a bit the wood part to make it more twitchy)
Pila (with a reworked bottom )
Meribel
Whistler (if they'll actually build the track they intended to build)
Lourdes
Double header are fine but need to be spread out more during the week and they should not just replace different rounds.

Fix the taping issues with jumps.
1
Big Bird
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12/4/2020 4:26pm
Yes. Why hasn't there been a Whistler World Cup? The money is there, the infrastructure is there and the interest is there. I suppose that the answer is that they don't need it. They have the #1 bike park and they have Crankworks so Whistler doesn't need a World Cup. But the world could use a bit of cheering up right now. It could be the biggest bubble event to date. Just imagine the quarentine lap footage alone!
1
Eisma
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12/4/2020 5:03pm
I would love to see a WC in the Rocky Mountains. Vail, Park City and Big Sky could probably all pull it off but would need to build a proper track.
1
Big Bird
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12/4/2020 5:37pm
Eisma wrote:
I would love to see a WC in the Rocky Mountains. Vail, Park City and Big Sky could probably all pull it off but would need...
I would love to see a WC in the Rocky Mountains. Vail, Park City and Big Sky could probably all pull it off but would need to build a proper track.
Park City certainly has the means and mountain available. Which falls into my scheme to get more pumice in the World Cup.
Big Bird
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12/4/2020 5:46pm
I've never had the budget to show up to a race with more than the tires on my bike, so I have no idea how spikes would work in dry Pumice Vs. wet. I wonder if it's mud tires for dry conditions and switch to drys in case of rain when it might firm up? Let's find out! For weird, late season scheduling perhaps it's the perfect solution for a late season track?.
brash
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12/6/2020 12:49pm Edited Date/Time 12/6/2020 12:55pm
Bring back an Oceania round.

Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the Hospital is too far away from Thredbo, and nothing has changed there. Plus Thredbo DH, whilst incredibly fast and long.... not exactly challenging at all. It's got Fort Bill Speed and Length.... just a bit tame.



Cairns.... nah.... Although partying up there is the best haha.

Coronet Peak Just outside Queenstown NZ.... That's where a round needs to be! Everyone loves that track, it's fast and wild.




NZ would have the potential for 5 WC rounds. The place is like Europe without weird dudes in Fullfaces and Sunglasses. Must be a reason why Loic and half the circus go there to train.
1
Big Bird
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12/6/2020 2:14pm
brash wrote:
Bring back an Oceania round. Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the...
Bring back an Oceania round.

Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the Hospital is too far away from Thredbo, and nothing has changed there. Plus Thredbo DH, whilst incredibly fast and long.... not exactly challenging at all. It's got Fort Bill Speed and Length.... just a bit tame.



Cairns.... nah.... Although partying up there is the best haha.

Coronet Peak Just outside Queenstown NZ.... That's where a round needs to be! Everyone loves that track, it's fast and wild.




NZ would have the potential for 5 WC rounds. The place is like Europe without weird dudes in Fullfaces and Sunglasses. Must be a reason why Loic and half the circus go there to train.
New Zealand should just dominate the world of DH like America used to. Except they would have the bonus of being in a separate hemisphere than the rest of the circuit, thus off season. Put on an event model to rival the World Cup and have the rest of the world come to you like back in the Norba Nationals days.
smelly
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12/6/2020 5:02pm
brash wrote:
Bring back an Oceania round. Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the...
Bring back an Oceania round.

Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the Hospital is too far away from Thredbo, and nothing has changed there. Plus Thredbo DH, whilst incredibly fast and long.... not exactly challenging at all. It's got Fort Bill Speed and Length.... just a bit tame.



Cairns.... nah.... Although partying up there is the best haha.

Coronet Peak Just outside Queenstown NZ.... That's where a round needs to be! Everyone loves that track, it's fast and wild.




NZ would have the potential for 5 WC rounds. The place is like Europe without weird dudes in Fullfaces and Sunglasses. Must be a reason why Loic and half the circus go there to train.
Cairns really was astoundingly bad. It was as if the world cup ski circuit decided to hold a race in Michigan. I remember feeling like I should do myself and the race a favor and turn it off but you just couldn't stop watching. And there was that spectator that took an enormous crash on Brayton's bike

Would be great to see Coronet or Rotorua on the circuit. Rotorua is already in Crankworx so it seems like the WC would be a possibility.
JamesR_2026
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12/6/2020 5:17pm
brash wrote:
Bring back an Oceania round. Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the...
Bring back an Oceania round.

Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the Hospital is too far away from Thredbo, and nothing has changed there. Plus Thredbo DH, whilst incredibly fast and long.... not exactly challenging at all. It's got Fort Bill Speed and Length.... just a bit tame.



Cairns.... nah.... Although partying up there is the best haha.

Coronet Peak Just outside Queenstown NZ.... That's where a round needs to be! Everyone loves that track, it's fast and wild.




NZ would have the potential for 5 WC rounds. The place is like Europe without weird dudes in Fullfaces and Sunglasses. Must be a reason why Loic and half the circus go there to train.
I've heard whispers that Thredbo might be looking at a new track with an eye to running a world cup.....
JamesR_2026
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12/6/2020 5:20pm
brash wrote:
Bring back an Oceania round. Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the...
Bring back an Oceania round.

Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the Hospital is too far away from Thredbo, and nothing has changed there. Plus Thredbo DH, whilst incredibly fast and long.... not exactly challenging at all. It's got Fort Bill Speed and Length.... just a bit tame.



Cairns.... nah.... Although partying up there is the best haha.

Coronet Peak Just outside Queenstown NZ.... That's where a round needs to be! Everyone loves that track, it's fast and wild.




NZ would have the potential for 5 WC rounds. The place is like Europe without weird dudes in Fullfaces and Sunglasses. Must be a reason why Loic and half the circus go there to train.
smelly wrote:
Cairns really was astoundingly bad. It was as if the world cup ski circuit decided to hold a race in Michigan. I remember feeling like I...
Cairns really was astoundingly bad. It was as if the world cup ski circuit decided to hold a race in Michigan. I remember feeling like I should do myself and the race a favor and turn it off but you just couldn't stop watching. And there was that spectator that took an enormous crash on Brayton's bike

Would be great to see Coronet or Rotorua on the circuit. Rotorua is already in Crankworx so it seems like the WC would be a possibility.
I don't think Cairns was as bad as the coverage made it look. As it was worlds and not a world cup, Red Bull didn't do the camera setup and the people who did put the cameras on all the easy to access smooth flat bits.
1
mfoga
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12/6/2020 7:09pm
Big Bird wrote:
Yes. Why hasn't there been a Whistler World Cup? The money is there, the infrastructure is there and the interest is there. I suppose that the...
Yes. Why hasn't there been a Whistler World Cup? The money is there, the infrastructure is there and the interest is there. I suppose that the answer is that they don't need it. They have the #1 bike park and they have Crankworks so Whistler doesn't need a World Cup. But the world could use a bit of cheering up right now. It could be the biggest bubble event to date. Just imagine the quarentine lap footage alone!
For the obvious reason. They have no need for one. Why pay money to in reality not make any more money. People go there no matter what, they don't need a bump in tourism. They have crankworkx and don't have tp bribe the UCI to get that.
harwox
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12/6/2020 10:04pm
I don't think Cairns was as bad as the coverage made it look. As it was worlds and not a world cup, Red Bull didn't do...
I don't think Cairns was as bad as the coverage made it look. As it was worlds and not a world cup, Red Bull didn't do the camera setup and the people who did put the cameras on all the easy to access smooth flat bits.
the Worlds camera set up was the most involved out of the 3 events that were up there. Not a RB director, but effectively the same camera plan with a few additional unmanned cameras.
Eoin
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12/7/2020 1:55am
I remember liking the Cairns RAW footage quite a bit, the race a bit less I guess because the pedaling section was too big a factor.

Not sure I understand these lists which don't mention Champery and Schladming.

Unpopular opinion: Fort Bill isn't that good to watch live, the RAWs are great, but most of the live feed is the jumps/pedaling lower section. And it is always wind/rain affected.

Would also massively favor something like a 9-10 round WC with only 7-8 rounds counting: You can have a puncture or injury and not throw away the entire season for the top guys attending everything (Loris is the 2020 champ in my heart). And you could have rounds in every continent without privateers having to go broke, e.g. US guys could skip the 1-2 NZ rounds and vice versa.
2
12/7/2020 8:29am
brash wrote:
Bring back an Oceania round. Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the...
Bring back an Oceania round.

Canberra was possibly the worst track in History, As I understand it was there and not Thredbo for Worlds because the Hospital is too far away from Thredbo, and nothing has changed there. Plus Thredbo DH, whilst incredibly fast and long.... not exactly challenging at all. It's got Fort Bill Speed and Length.... just a bit tame.



Cairns.... nah.... Although partying up there is the best haha.

Coronet Peak Just outside Queenstown NZ.... That's where a round needs to be! Everyone loves that track, it's fast and wild.




NZ would have the potential for 5 WC rounds. The place is like Europe without weird dudes in Fullfaces and Sunglasses. Must be a reason why Loic and half the circus go there to train.
smelly wrote:
Cairns really was astoundingly bad. It was as if the world cup ski circuit decided to hold a race in Michigan. I remember feeling like I...
Cairns really was astoundingly bad. It was as if the world cup ski circuit decided to hold a race in Michigan. I remember feeling like I should do myself and the race a favor and turn it off but you just couldn't stop watching. And there was that spectator that took an enormous crash on Brayton's bike

Would be great to see Coronet or Rotorua on the circuit. Rotorua is already in Crankworx so it seems like the WC would be a possibility.
Michigan has hosted FIS World Cup ski events in the past and likely will again in the future. Michigan also hosted NORBA races back when that series was bigger and more important than UCI.

You need a variety of tracks to put on a proper UCI DH schedule.
3
12/7/2020 8:51am
Eoin wrote:
I remember liking the Cairns RAW footage quite a bit, the race a bit less I guess because the pedaling section was too big a factor...
I remember liking the Cairns RAW footage quite a bit, the race a bit less I guess because the pedaling section was too big a factor.

Not sure I understand these lists which don't mention Champery and Schladming.

Unpopular opinion: Fort Bill isn't that good to watch live, the RAWs are great, but most of the live feed is the jumps/pedaling lower section. And it is always wind/rain affected.

Would also massively favor something like a 9-10 round WC with only 7-8 rounds counting: You can have a puncture or injury and not throw away the entire season for the top guys attending everything (Loris is the 2020 champ in my heart). And you could have rounds in every continent without privateers having to go broke, e.g. US guys could skip the 1-2 NZ rounds and vice versa.
Nope. Every race counts. I think we all agree we want more rounds and more tracks. The issue is the uci is too damn bloated and way too many venues can’t afford to hold their dance.

Hopefully we can get some more of wyn’s not a race type events. The sports coverage will be grown by the industry and the racers. The uci Is far more concerned with its exclusive image then growing the sports it supposedly represents
6
matt?
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12/7/2020 10:22am
I know you started by asking about the tracks, but for me the scheduling needs to be there too; I can't be dealing with a month between races and then three European rounds in three weeks. I get jet lag, travel time etc, but a round every two weeks would be amazing.

In terms of tracks, Schladming would be sick to see again. Classics like MSA, Maribor, Val di Sole are staples, but let's rotate them in and out and go back to places Vallnord and Bromont, and get NZ represented too as you know it'd be rowdy as anything.

Rumour has it that Ft Bill was wanting to have a brand new track for the '23 World Champs, but Brexit and COVID may have taken up all the funding for it. Watch this space, we should know for sure this time next year.
1
12/7/2020 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/7/2020 12:02pm
matt? wrote:
I know you started by asking about the tracks, but for me the scheduling needs to be there too; I can't be dealing with a month...
I know you started by asking about the tracks, but for me the scheduling needs to be there too; I can't be dealing with a month between races and then three European rounds in three weeks. I get jet lag, travel time etc, but a round every two weeks would be amazing.

In terms of tracks, Schladming would be sick to see again. Classics like MSA, Maribor, Val di Sole are staples, but let's rotate them in and out and go back to places Vallnord and Bromont, and get NZ represented too as you know it'd be rowdy as anything.

Rumour has it that Ft Bill was wanting to have a brand new track for the '23 World Champs, but Brexit and COVID may have taken up all the funding for it. Watch this space, we should know for sure this time next year.
I’d rather teams spend more on putting more races than budgeting for a spaced out schedule. We aren’t a big enough sport except to do things fiscally. I’d rather see a double header or two a year on same track then have leogang 2 weeks after ft bill instead of one

Also stacking events is the only way privateers can financially try to hang with big bois. A more spaced schedule makes that gap even bigger which as a spectator I don’t want
matt?
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12/7/2020 12:07pm
I’d rather teams spend more on putting more races than budgeting for a spaced out schedule. We aren’t a big enough sport except to do things...
I’d rather teams spend more on putting more races than budgeting for a spaced out schedule. We aren’t a big enough sport except to do things fiscally. I’d rather see a double header or two a year on same track then have leogang 2 weeks after ft bill instead of one

Also stacking events is the only way privateers can financially try to hang with big bois. A more spaced schedule makes that gap even bigger which as a spectator I don’t want
Great points, fully agree about privateers and people taking a few weeks out from their day job to give racing a crack. I just feel it would be nice to have a bit more rhythm and consistency
Karabuka
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12/7/2020 1:25pm
I agree about double headers, it just pushes price/performance way up and thats really good for privateers and small teams because we have heard many complain how recent changes (like less people in the finals,...) are good for redbull but are killing the scene...

About the schedule I'd say something like half old tracks and half completely new!! This is not really likely to happen because we all know how much these cost and for many I'd say its hard to justify the investment but we can dream...
1
SharpieMTB
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12/8/2020 9:17am
Big Bird wrote:
Yes. Why hasn't there been a Whistler World Cup? The money is there, the infrastructure is there and the interest is there. I suppose that the...
Yes. Why hasn't there been a Whistler World Cup? The money is there, the infrastructure is there and the interest is there. I suppose that the answer is that they don't need it. They have the #1 bike park and they have Crankworks so Whistler doesn't need a World Cup. But the world could use a bit of cheering up right now. It could be the biggest bubble event to date. Just imagine the quarentine lap footage alone!
Whistler has to bid it. There was Grouse Mtn which was very close to whistler and coincidentally produced one of the best mud race runs (Ole Mick Pascal with a 6th after everyone else had a dry course) until recent years and Gary Houseman had his win stripped for using the devils lettuce.
SharpieMTB
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12/8/2020 9:25am
Any schedule that doesn't include ft bill is probably an improvement.

The random venue locations like brazil or japan would be great as well.
1
Big Bird
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12/8/2020 2:38pm
SharpieMTB wrote:
Whistler has to bid it. There was Grouse Mtn which was very close to whistler and coincidentally produced one of the best mud race runs (Ole...
Whistler has to bid it. There was Grouse Mtn which was very close to whistler and coincidentally produced one of the best mud race runs (Ole Mick Pascal with a 6th after everyone else had a dry course) until recent years and Gary Houseman had his win stripped for using the devils lettuce.
I understand the whole expensive bidding process and all of that and that Whistler doesn't Need the exposure. My thought was that they're so popular and famous that they Have the cash to make it happen on their own without relying on the local government to pitch in for publicity and tourism. They could run a World Cup race two weeks before Crankworks and have all of the big names who wouldn't normally travel to Crankworks rested and fresh and ready to take Crankworks to another level. And I do love me some devils lettuce.
1
mfoga
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12/8/2020 6:20pm
SharpieMTB wrote:
Whistler has to bid it. There was Grouse Mtn which was very close to whistler and coincidentally produced one of the best mud race runs (Ole...
Whistler has to bid it. There was Grouse Mtn which was very close to whistler and coincidentally produced one of the best mud race runs (Ole Mick Pascal with a 6th after everyone else had a dry course) until recent years and Gary Houseman had his win stripped for using the devils lettuce.
Big Bird wrote:
I understand the whole expensive bidding process and all of that and that Whistler doesn't Need the exposure. My thought was that they're so popular and...
I understand the whole expensive bidding process and all of that and that Whistler doesn't Need the exposure. My thought was that they're so popular and famous that they Have the cash to make it happen on their own without relying on the local government to pitch in for publicity and tourism. They could run a World Cup race two weeks before Crankworks and have all of the big names who wouldn't normally travel to Crankworks rested and fresh and ready to take Crankworks to another level. And I do love me some devils lettuce.
You have to also take into consideration the potential loss of revenue on top of the cost. Would be cool but again if you are pretty much a max capacity all summer long why do you need to pay to bring an event there that will can not help you financially. It would make more sense to have another race in NA right around crankworkx.

1

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