Are Global DH Bikes Sales Falling?

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Maxipedia 10/21/2020 11:45pm
10/21/2020 11:45pm Edited Date/Time 10/22/2020 6:32am
groghunter wrote:
a point that i haven't seen here, that i think is worth making: My 2018 Patrol is not slower or less capable than my 2008 M9...
a point that i haven't seen here, that i think is worth making: My 2018 Patrol is not slower or less capable than my 2008 M9 was, or my 2005 Demo 8, or 2004 Big Hit. Modern Enduro bikes are less capable than modern DH bikes, but they're better and faster than even a 5 yo DH bike, IMO.

If i spend the most on the bike i ride the most, and the DH bike is second or third priority, that means i'm looking at a bike a few years old. and if the few year old DH bike isn't any faster or more capable than my enduro, why even own it? especially now that my shorter travel bike isn't holding me back in any situation outside of racing?
I will barge in with a slice of my personal experience in this regard, not sure how much it helps. Context is this: I live in an area where most trails are difficult, we used to ride our DH bikes much more in the past, at some point we lost shuttling options, enduro bikes came as a natural savior and they stayed, even now, when the shuttle is back and better than ever. DH bikes are mostly ridden by kids who are into the gnar, follow World Cup riders on social media and try to emulate them and probably are taking up racing. I have ridden my DH bike less and less in the last couple of years, but the truth here that my approach has also rather shifted towards ”epic” rides and much more exploring. Actually, when exploring, I'd rather take my hardtail, a Nukeproof Scout 290 with Yari, than my enduro bike, as I can carry it around easier.

My bikes are an L sized '12 Intense M9 with 27.5” wheels and AngleSet and an L-sized '19 Mondraker Foxy XR alloy. with a coil shock and progressive MRP spring on 29” wheels. I am 1.91 m / 6'3” tall. There are obvious differences between bikes and reach is about 440 mm on the M9 and 495 mm on the Foxy, so a huge gap. I have tested these bikes against each other last summer on two of the more rowdy and steep tracks that we have, timed them as I could (with Strava) and found out a few things. One of the tracks is rockier and filled with roots, the other one is very steep and very narrow. I took the bikes on these tracks and rode multiple laps in two days, when conditions were very similar. First thing is that the best times, while charging on these tracks, were basically identical. The difference was one of comfort, though. Mental comfort, to be more precise, and it only came from the DH bike. I felt the M9 has a generous cushion and makes me feel in full control while on my runs. This was particularly true on the very steep track, where I felt that I play with the DH bike and just cruised with confidence. The Foxy, though, is a total different beast. While my feeling was that the Intense could give me even more room for error and would forgive me, if I cross the boundaries, the Mondraker emphasized on these rides how quick it is. Scary quick. On the steep track, even though I felt I was riding at the limit and this frightened me a few times, it gave me the impression it could be pushed even further speed-wise.

Bottom line for me, after the aforementioned experience, is this: the enduro bike is indeed a swiss-army knife and boy is it fun! I am riding it in most places, that isn't even a question. But, related to terrain, it has certain limits and if you cross them, it is not very fun anymore and it can feel out of place. I am riding the DH seldom these days. It's either races, bikepark runs or if I decide I do a shuttle session on one of the aforementioned two trails. Regarding races, I have felt tempted to ride the enduro bike on one of the more tech tracks that we had this year, but eventually stuck with the DH bike. I am building a 29er DH bike for next year, so that won't be an issue anymore.

Hope this sheds some light.

Cheers,
Mx

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LLLLL
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LLLLL 10/22/2020 1:13am
10/22/2020 1:13am
brash wrote:
The big one is the abuse a DH bike can take. My Stumpy after only 10 days at Queenstown Bikepark was a mess. Everything needed a...
The big one is the abuse a DH bike can take. My Stumpy after only 10 days at Queenstown Bikepark was a mess. Everything needed a rebuild it seems. You can go all season on a DH bike with some brake pad changes and a spit shine.
EugenM wrote:
But a 140mm bike, even one with a 63 ha, is still a trail bike. There is an imbalance here between the geo and the available...
But a 140mm bike, even one with a 63 ha, is still a trail bike. There is an imbalance here between the geo and the available travel. nice bike nonetheless.
Similar geo with 170-180mm of travel can and will take the abuse.
(I've know because I've done it!, burly everything, 180mm fork, dh casting tires; I sold it in less than one year because it was too much of a bike riding it anywhere beside lift asisted trails)
brash wrote:
Was a stumpy evo with a 170mm coil fork and 57mm stroke giving 163mm travel. The head angle was 62.5 That bike was ratshit after a...
Was a stumpy evo with a 170mm coil fork and 57mm stroke giving 163mm travel.

The head angle was 62.5

That bike was ratshit after a week lol. Full rebuild.
I’ve the same bike. 160 coil, ttx coil 155 out back. But I changed everything else bar the headset because the sram nx and wheels were shit. It can now take a beating and all need to do is check tyre pressures in the morning.
Karabuka
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Karabuka 10/22/2020 2:18am
10/22/2020 2:18am
EugenM wrote:
I know a guy who did just that on his sender(dropper and a 42 cassette). Then again, he is that type of guy who can run...
I know a guy who did just that on his sender(dropper and a 42 cassette). Then again, he is that type of guy who can run 100+ kms marathons in the mountains so, he's got the legs to do it.
Seems like we are all going to reach a conclusion eventualy that Astons 210mm enduro bike is indeed the future, link for those who have not read it yet...
https://www.astonmtb.com/g1-ultimate-bike-check/quiver-destroyer
_Lan
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_Lan 10/22/2020 2:39am
10/22/2020 2:39am
Karabuka wrote:
Seems like we are all going to reach a conclusion eventualy that Astons 210mm enduro bike is indeed the future, link for those who have not...
Seems like we are all going to reach a conclusion eventualy that Astons 210mm enduro bike is indeed the future, link for those who have not read it yet...
https://www.astonmtb.com/g1-ultimate-bike-check/quiver-destroyer
If you look at my bike check you'll see that I use a 215mm travel dh Enduro bike. It actually works brilliantly. I also have this incoming. The suspension layout is similar to that prototype Norco dh bike. This is the future.


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Primoz
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Primoz 10/22/2020 2:44am
10/22/2020 2:44am
Where did you have it made?
_Lan
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_Lan 10/22/2020 2:48am
10/22/2020 2:48am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2020 2:52am
Primoz wrote:
Where did you have it made?
In China. Although I wouldn't exactly recommend it. Plenty of headaches, delays and changing the agreed upon price. Maybe it's better to procure the frame building tools and make it yourself out of steel lol.

I just tried it out to see if I could design a usable bike that rode well. First one was good so when covid 19 hit, I used my free time during the lockdown to design the 2nd bike
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Primoz 10/22/2020 2:54am
10/22/2020 2:54am
Did you design only the geometry and kinematics or did you do the whole shebang including drawings? How much did it cost you?
_Lan
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_Lan 10/22/2020 3:00am
10/22/2020 3:00am Edited Date/Time 10/22/2020 3:46am
Primoz wrote:
Did you design only the geometry and kinematics or did you do the whole shebang including drawings? How much did it cost you?
You have to design everything yourself. You have to make sure of the clearances, the necessary thickness of the tubing and cnced parts as the company in China won't do any of that for you. As for the price, it's slightly more expensive than a high end carbon frame before you even factor in taxes.

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Levizbrown 10/22/2020 5:11am
10/22/2020 5:11am
Twowheelneal wrote:
As someone who has been fortunate enough to ride and own multiple DH bike over the last 15 years, I hate to see them fade into...
As someone who has been fortunate enough to ride and own multiple DH bike over the last 15 years, I hate to see them fade into the background. Although it makes sense, as most people may only own one or two bikes and to have one that is relatively dedicated to summer chair lift season may be tough to justify.

I've owned some pretty sweet current model 170mm enduro bikes but nothing beats a triple clamp fork with 200mm of travel at both ends when the "true" DH terrain is in front of you. Three times I've sold the DH bike and said a new enduro will fill the void. It never works! I just end up with another one down the road.

With bike parks catering to the new school flow and jump lines, and trying to attract a wider audience, the need for DH bikes is clearly less. But for those of us who are fortunate enough to own them, you'll have a hard time convincing us that an enduro bike is "good enough" when the going gets rough!
taldfind wrote:
Are bike parks getting rid of their rough trails to build new flow trails?
Yes for sure I am seeing a lot of rough trails being tamed down, awkward steep corners boring rerouted and bermed, Rocky fast straight aways being smoothed out, gnarly trail gaps being widened with proper landings... not always but it is definitely happening
bulletbass man 10/22/2020 11:32am
10/22/2020 11:32am
Twowheelneal wrote:
As someone who has been fortunate enough to ride and own multiple DH bike over the last 15 years, I hate to see them fade into...
As someone who has been fortunate enough to ride and own multiple DH bike over the last 15 years, I hate to see them fade into the background. Although it makes sense, as most people may only own one or two bikes and to have one that is relatively dedicated to summer chair lift season may be tough to justify.

I've owned some pretty sweet current model 170mm enduro bikes but nothing beats a triple clamp fork with 200mm of travel at both ends when the "true" DH terrain is in front of you. Three times I've sold the DH bike and said a new enduro will fill the void. It never works! I just end up with another one down the road.

With bike parks catering to the new school flow and jump lines, and trying to attract a wider audience, the need for DH bikes is clearly less. But for those of us who are fortunate enough to own them, you'll have a hard time convincing us that an enduro bike is "good enough" when the going gets rough!
taldfind wrote:
Are bike parks getting rid of their rough trails to build new flow trails?
Levizbrown wrote:
Yes for sure I am seeing a lot of rough trails being tamed down, awkward steep corners boring rerouted and bermed, Rocky fast straight aways being...
Yes for sure I am seeing a lot of rough trails being tamed down, awkward steep corners boring rerouted and bermed, Rocky fast straight aways being smoothed out, gnarly trail gaps being widened with proper landings... not always but it is definitely happening
Not really surprising. Bike parks need to cater to trail bike users to be profitable. Riding a trail bike on a dh track is like riding a single speed rigid on a good mtb trail. Sure it’s fun but it’s a one percenter experience especially to repeat over and over again. On the flip
Side I’d prefer a Trail bike on a flow trail but a newbie feels like Superman on the dh rig.

Plenty of places have the ratio of gnar to progressive flow pretty dialed but the smaller places tend to be trending in the gentrified direction. Especially when it comes to new tracks. The most difficult track on many hills is 10 years old at this point

ORTOGONAL555 10/23/2020 9:15am
10/23/2020 9:15am
brash wrote:
The big one is the abuse a DH bike can take. My Stumpy after only 10 days at Queenstown Bikepark was a mess. Everything needed a...
The big one is the abuse a DH bike can take. My Stumpy after only 10 days at Queenstown Bikepark was a mess. Everything needed a rebuild it seems. You can go all season on a DH bike with some brake pad changes and a spit shine.
I have to say, this was maybe true a few years back, but nowadays dh bikes are not really more durable than big enduro bikes. In my experience rims dent easily to the point they can't hold air anymore, brakes pads get worned fast, suspensions need frequent service, tires get worn fast, bearings fall apart or wear quickly, derailleurs get bent and so forth. I don't think dh bikes are that much better as far as durability goes. Again, this comes down to enduro rigs being pretty sturdy and dh bikes not gettong equally stronger.
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coyoterun
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coyoterun 10/26/2020 8:07pm
10/26/2020 8:07pm
rockchomper wrote:
True but as soon as you make an enduro as capable as a DH bike it becomes a pig to climb. granted it still will climb...
True but as soon as you make an enduro as capable as a DH bike it becomes a pig to climb. granted it still will climb but itll suck doing it. the quiver killer enduro is an industry lie. You have to sacrifice in other areas thats how everything is!
a 180 dual crown front 180mm coil rear ultra long, ultra slack, ultra low bike with DH tires and tire inserts isnt the bike you wanna climb even though it'll be darn close to as good as a DH bike. if your going to do that to an enduro you'd be better off putting a big cassette and dropper on a DH bike.
EugenM wrote:
I know a guy who did just that on his sender(dropper and a 42 cassette). Then again, he is that type of guy who can run...
I know a guy who did just that on his sender(dropper and a 42 cassette). Then again, he is that type of guy who can run 100+ kms marathons in the mountains so, he's got the legs to do it.
no access to shuttle or lift nearby, pedaling up is the only way to get me to top. Running Dropper on my DH bike for a while now, quite happy with it.

In the market for new DH frame now, too bad most of the carbon DH frame's seat-tubes are quite short. :-(



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rockchomper
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rockchomper 10/27/2020 8:07am
10/27/2020 8:07am
coyoterun wrote:
no access to shuttle or lift nearby, pedaling up is the only way to get me to top. Running Dropper on my DH bike for a...
no access to shuttle or lift nearby, pedaling up is the only way to get me to top. Running Dropper on my DH bike for a while now, quite happy with it.

In the market for new DH frame now, too bad most of the carbon DH frame's seat-tubes are quite short. :-(



Thats a super sweet set up! If the climb is gonna suck no matter what, might as well make the descents the best they can be! Looks like an Ultra fun ride! I see the future of enduro being more like this. I'd say if DH does die (dear lord please no) but if it does I think it'll cause DH and enduro to mesh and then these will be called gravity bikes and dh and enduro wont exist. I think it'll be XC, Trail, Gravity. that said I hope that doesn't happen as I love pure bread DH rigs!
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coyoterun 10/28/2020 8:49am
10/28/2020 8:49am
coyoterun wrote:
no access to shuttle or lift nearby, pedaling up is the only way to get me to top. Running Dropper on my DH bike for a...
no access to shuttle or lift nearby, pedaling up is the only way to get me to top. Running Dropper on my DH bike for a while now, quite happy with it.

In the market for new DH frame now, too bad most of the carbon DH frame's seat-tubes are quite short. :-(



rockchomper wrote:
Thats a super sweet set up! If the climb is gonna suck no matter what, might as well make the descents the best they can be...
Thats a super sweet set up! If the climb is gonna suck no matter what, might as well make the descents the best they can be! Looks like an Ultra fun ride! I see the future of enduro being more like this. I'd say if DH does die (dear lord please no) but if it does I think it'll cause DH and enduro to mesh and then these will be called gravity bikes and dh and enduro wont exist. I think it'll be XC, Trail, Gravity. that said I hope that doesn't happen as I love pure bread DH rigs!
Saw today's Bike of the Day – https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Don1138,39886/setup,42736

FEATURES
• 29” / 27.5” Downhill/Freeride
• 7005 aluminum with CNC links
• Patented Canfield Balance Formula™ Suspension
• 203mm/190mm travel
• Frame Includes Öhlins TTX22 Coil
• Internal Cable Routing w/ Interchangeable Ports
• Seatpost: 30.9mm, stealth dropper compatible


https://canfieldbikes.com/collections/2020-one-2/products/2020-one-2-av…
C-LION
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C-LION 12/11/2020 4:43pm
12/11/2020 4:43pm
Twowheelneal wrote:
As someone who has been fortunate enough to ride and own multiple DH bike over the last 15 years, I hate to see them fade into...
As someone who has been fortunate enough to ride and own multiple DH bike over the last 15 years, I hate to see them fade into the background. Although it makes sense, as most people may only own one or two bikes and to have one that is relatively dedicated to summer chair lift season may be tough to justify.

I've owned some pretty sweet current model 170mm enduro bikes but nothing beats a triple clamp fork with 200mm of travel at both ends when the "true" DH terrain is in front of you. Three times I've sold the DH bike and said a new enduro will fill the void. It never works! I just end up with another one down the road.

With bike parks catering to the new school flow and jump lines, and trying to attract a wider audience, the need for DH bikes is clearly less. But for those of us who are fortunate enough to own them, you'll have a hard time convincing us that an enduro bike is "good enough" when the going gets rough!
So true

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