How would you stop Richie from flatting?

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luisgutrod 8/20/2018 2:13pm
8/20/2018 2:13pm
andrew.macnaughton wrote:
You're thinking that most of his flats are caused whilst bottoming out the rear suspension (or when the suspension effectively loses its ability to provide support)...
You're thinking that most of his flats are caused whilst bottoming out the rear suspension (or when the suspension effectively loses its ability to provide support). I wonder whether grabbing an inopportune handful of brake, which de-sensifies the suspension could play a factor too.

I've heard some pros say (maybe in Cathrovision) that on some lines through sharp rocks you better dont lock the rear wheel, its the key... I agree !..
Democho
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Democho 8/21/2018 9:28am
8/21/2018 9:28am
kolsen wrote:
Pick better lines
smelly wrote:
Yup. But you guys can keep talking about equipment if you like. Sometimes riding at 95% is faster than 110%, and grace will often beat hulk-smashing...
Yup. But you guys can keep talking about equipment if you like. Sometimes riding at 95% is faster than 110%, and grace will often beat hulk-smashing your way down the mountain. That would also be the same way you stop Brook Macdonald and Gee Atherton from blowing up all the time. Sometimes slowing down and riding smooth is faster. Way faster.

Fun to watch, though. Keep up those hulk-smash videos!
andrew.macnaughton wrote:
I think thats why Sam is good. He's so confident with his speed, he knows he doesn't have to ride the ragged edge to win. Jesse...
I think thats why Sam is good. He's so confident with his speed, he knows he doesn't have to ride the ragged edge to win. Jesse is kind of like Richie, except Riche just breaks parts whereas Jesse keeps breaking himself. Neither are sustainable, and i think both probably have the speed to consistently compete for the top step when things go right.
Agreed. It was really interesting watching the video on Pinkbike with Sam Hill and "the privateer". Sam was showing him lines and talking about why he chose them. Avoiding big holes even if it's the "faster line" to save both his bike AND body from taking a beating.
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SharpieMTB 8/21/2018 11:34am
8/21/2018 11:34am
Democho wrote:
Agreed. It was really interesting watching the video on Pinkbike with Sam Hill and "the privateer". Sam was showing him lines and talking about why he...
Agreed. It was really interesting watching the video on Pinkbike with Sam Hill and "the privateer". Sam was showing him lines and talking about why he chose them. Avoiding big holes even if it's the "faster line" to save both his bike AND body from taking a beating.
might just be faster on that last stage being less tired than everyone to take the win!
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Fox 8/22/2018 1:08pm
8/22/2018 1:08pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2018 1:13pm
jeff.brines wrote:
Wow! Awesome comments by all!! Few thoughts... 1) To the poster asking about air being semi-speed sensitive I suggest you listen to this... https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/TECH-TALK-Air-Shocks-Versus-Coil-Shocks-Whats-Better,2065 as it...
Wow! Awesome comments by all!!

Few thoughts...

1) To the poster asking about air being semi-speed sensitive I suggest you listen to this... https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/TECH-TALK-Air-Shocks-Versus-Coil-Shoc… as it touches on the adiabatic process. This is what I was referring to. Really the position sensitivity and manipulation of an airshock is most important in this equation, but yeah, I did want to throw this out there too.

The poster asking about a coil being better in the midstroke, that is something we can debate (not saying you are wrong), but the midstroke of the shock is not where flats happen. Its when you use all the travel and your tire (and rim) becomes your last in line bottom out bumper...

2) To those asking about bike travel. Duh. This absolutely makes sense. Big dude smashing = needs more travel. Those debating if this would make an impact (no pun intended) on the number of flats, the answer is YES *if* those flats are generally coming from pinching/smooshing the tire against something. If its cutting a sidewall on a sharp rock, it wouldn't make a difference.

If you want proof go take a DH bike and start smashing up some stairs at low-ish psi (25?). Now go take a hardtail with the same setup and do that. See which one pinches/cuts faster. See which one is harder on your wheels.

Richie is so strong an extra 20mm of travel wouldn't hinder his sprints, especially if its engineered well (hell, put a lockout on the bar if you want)

3) The level is insanely high. I agree there. So many guys can win, and you have to bring the full package to stand on the podium. Fitness, technical bike handling, and the ability to know what your machine is capable of. Kind of reminds me of Days of Thunder when Tom Cruise is lectured on tire wear. Its not just how fast you are riding but how sustainabley you can do it. Either way, those writing about knowing what you can do and what you need to do have a great point, and its something Sam clearly has figured out.

4) Richie is an amazing bike rider, but I wouldn't say he's smooth. Yes, I've seen him ride first hand. He's smooth for a big guy but he still smashes stuff in a way that'd make Nico cringe Wink He's not scared to hit stuff. That's the point of this thread in a way.

In any case, psyched to see all the responses. Some good ideas floating around in here!


Jeff,
I’m still not convinced that more travel would equal less pinch flats. Tire pressure, suspension travel, spring preload, compression dampening, and the size and type of hit to the tire and rim would all factor in to wether or not you would blow through a tire straight to the rim before the suspension went through all it’s travel

Watch the cool vid you guys posted a while back smashing curbs with the FTD system:
https://m.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Tubeless-Flat-Prevention,110/Flat-…

Does the tire usually collapse and the strike make contact with the rim before the suspension goes through all its travel? There are so many factors involved I’m not so sure that more travel yields less flats.
jeff.brines
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jeff.brines 8/22/2018 1:17pm
8/22/2018 1:17pm Edited Date/Time 8/22/2018 2:11pm
Fox wrote:
Jeff, I’m still not convinced that more travel would equal less pinch flats. Tire pressure, suspension travel, spring preload, compression dampening, and the size and type...
Jeff,
I’m still not convinced that more travel would equal less pinch flats. Tire pressure, suspension travel, spring preload, compression dampening, and the size and type of hit to the tire and rim would all factor in to wether or not you would blow through a tire straight to the rim before the suspension went through all it’s travel

Watch the cool vid you guys posted a while back smashing curbs with the FTD system:
https://m.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Tubeless-Flat-Prevention,110/Flat-…

Does the tire usually collapse and the strike make contact with the rim before the suspension goes through all its travel? There are so many factors involved I’m not so sure that more travel yields less flats.
"Paging a real suspension engineer to the white courtesy telephone" (David!)

Let me alter my statement slightly, though I felt it was pretty obvious...

More suspension travel, setup similar, with similar kinematics, sag, tire pressure, damper, etc will yield less pinch flats.

Sure, if you have more travel but set it up like garbage it won't help at all. I'm making the assumption Richie will set a longer travel bike up the same way he'd set up his 140-150mm bike. At least within reason. (similar amount of sag, compression damping, on a similiar-ish Yeti with similarish kinematics)

In this case all we are doing is increasing the amount of work a system can perform. More work (in this case) = higher total potential for a system to change kinetic energy into thermal energy (via a damper). This energy isn't just created, its going through the system either way (long travel or short travel). In the longer travel scenerio more of this energy is theoretically able to be captured by the damper.

If this energy is converted to thermal energy (again, via a damper) it is no longer as likely to be converted into Richie-has-his-day-ruined energy Wink

(some of this was in jest, some semi-legitimate physics...)

Either way, I'm not saying more travel is the end all be all way to fix his problem. But it would absolutely help his cause...especially if many of these flats are from pinching. Oh, and as far as that video was conerned, we were running pretty low PSI when we did that. At 30 PSI (pressure these guys are running) the suspension is going to likely bottom before the tire is squished.

But yeah, just go take a hardtail with EXO tires at 30PSI and run into a set of stairs at 30 mph. Now do the same thing with the same tires/wheels on a DH bike. Repeat 10 times. Tell me which yielded more flats Wink

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GUILLO
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GUILLO 8/26/2018 4:43pm
8/26/2018 4:43pm
like someone said... maybe here is the answer hahahaha

Allen_Gleckner 9/23/2018 6:03pm
9/23/2018 6:03pm
Looks like it was needing longer travel all along?
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JVO
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JVO 9/23/2018 6:28pm
9/23/2018 6:28pm
Yes, I bet it helped a lot!!
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Verbl Kint 9/24/2018 12:50am
9/24/2018 12:50am
Allen_Gleckner wrote:
Looks like it was needing longer travel all along?
And 29" wheels.

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