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I had an Iron Horse 6 point with adjustable travel Lyrik and Fox airshock that literally had zero damping. that bike was so much fun!
How about Romic and their desert racing inspired twin tube shocks using a bearing to keep the shock locked out until enough force was exerted to open valve flow, I thought 5th element kinda piggy backed off their idea?
I don't want to roam offtopic here, but regarding your paragraph with DW: I have never owned or ridden a bike with DW suspension (although I am sure they are excellent), but those are my feelings regarding VPP. Except the various Santa Cruz bikes I have ridden, I also had/have two Intenses with VPP that I absolutely love. One of them is the M9, which probably still is my favourite all time DH bike, but I also have a Tracer VP with 26” wheels. I wasn't sold enough on enduro to have my own bike, so I rode a borrowed one that stuck with me for a while. When my buddy wanted it back, I bought the Tracer as an emergency, because it was the only decent bike in my size that was around. I put better suspension on it, excellent wheels, good tires, 1x transmission and had with it what probably is my best year riding. I loved how plush it was, but at the same time so nimble, poppy and light. I sold it to a friend, when I had to raise money for my first 29” new enduro bike, but then bought it back when I had the occasion. I keep it as bike that I borrow to friends, if they need one. That bike brought joy to many people.
Anyway, great talk here, thank you.
Mx
One thing about Fisher is he was really a guy who took other people's ideas and marketed them effectively. That was always his gig (knowing people back then who were active in the Marin scene). Innovators were Charlie Cunningham, Tom Ritchey, Steve Potts, Jim Turner, Keith Bontrager, and a host of others. He did push those ideas to much sales success though. Once rear suspension came along the field of influencers widened considerably..
How did he take somebody else's idea with 29-ers? He literally is the guy who pushed this thing, went all in with his brand before it was cool and had to see it all slip away and then catch on later, when his name became only an afterthought as a ”signature line” on Trek. Give the man some credit and some flowers for this, he deserves it! I also mentioned his impact on geometry in the late 90's in my initial post on this thread, that is all him too. 130 to 80 mm stems is something that you can definitely feel, and the longer top tubes and shorter chainstays too.
Mx
No way did Fisher invent the idea of 29ers. Marin co guys were using fattened 700C(29ers) for a while prior to that campaign.They were on 26" for strength purposes on many bikes as they developed. But anyone with a brain knew 700C rolled better. Brakes and chassis had to catch up.
I am not talking about who invented it, but about who PUSHED it and bet his all on this card. It was Fisher.
Mx
Wasn't Mondraker the first brand to embrace the move to Lower, Longer and Slacker?
Yup, its one thing to cook up an idea and another thing to make it a viable, production ready complete bike. Fisher did huge amounts of work on that front, which meant big changes in tooling and components for the whole bike - frame manufacture, forks, wheel and tyres all needed to change to make it happen. Since they were the guys to really stick their neck out for 29ers, they're the ones I mostly associate with it.
re: mondraker and long/low/slack - it's hard to pinpoint that one, I for sure remember the orignal ironhorse sundays being significantly lower than others, especially in the BB and head tube area. A lot of people were following around 2008-2009 with bikes like the DW Turner DHR prototypes (that guy popping up again!) starting to resemble the things we have now. Mondraker were the guys to take it wayyyyy further than the rest, and in some ways inspired a lot of trends, but also showed there was kind of a limit to them as well.
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