Coil Shock Shootout

It's awesome.

So impressed with mine for a "budget" option. The range of adjustability is great and the performance is right on par (maybe better?) than the Avalanche'd DHX it replaced. When I asked Craig what he thought of it, he told me it was basically a "Bomber on steroids" and this seems to track. Hard not to imagine using it on future builds rather than buying a Bomber and sending it off and waiting and everything that goes into that.

I disagree - the SV8 uses poppet style valving, not like the shim valving found in the Bomber CR.  I rode one on my Sentinel for a bit and did not like it nearly as much as other coils I've tried on it (including an Avy Bomber CR & CC Tigon). It has a good pedal platform, but when you started to push it, it would give unpredictably, presumably from the poppet opening. 

IMO, I much prefer the feel of a fully shimmed damper vs. poppet.  If you want a true Bomber on Steroids, try a Fast Fenix or similar.

I have owned Rockshox, Push, and Fox coil sprung shocks, and ridden Ohlins. 

The SV8 is great, and my favorite of the above. It feels like it has less friction, more grip over small chatter and brake bumps, and better support than the rest of those options. 
I would still prefer probably any of the above coil sprung shocks over any air sprung shock, though. 

Interesting how our tastes go - many many people love Push, I guess it's not for me! Did just receive a Telum in the mail, absolutely can't wait to try it out.

This is for a Canfield Lithium, for which I've had an EXT Storia, Avy Bomber CR --> FF Bomber CR, Shockcraft RS SDU Coil, Intend Hover MC, and now the Telum.  I'll make sure to come back with my impressions once I get a proper ride (awful weather here in Toronto right now).

As an aside, I've most recently been riding the Lithium with a 350 lbs spring on the FF Bomber CR, but Vorsprung recommended a 370 lbs for their shock.  I just checked the sag and the 370 lbs Sprindex sits right at 30% - I'll give it a shot!

I'm biased but I like it a lot - I think it hits a perfect sweet spot of everything you need for great performance & reliability - good damping, low friction and a decent adjustment range but no more. All killer no filler. The other 2 are quite different - the Rockshox is designed to work "fine" for a wide range of people, they are typically reliable but the damping levels might not work for everyone. Ohlins doesn't have great support over here so I haven't worked on them in a while, the ones I've dyno tested lately had a small range of adjustment but by all accounts ride very well. Other than that I can't really comment either way

Are you sure about the poppets? I thought it was shim based damping

I am with this guy. My SV8 is head and shoulders above my Avalanche Bomber. It tracks better, it dives less, it makes no ugly noise like the Bomber that clicks despite just having been serviced by Avalanche. I rotate both on the same frame, and the Bomber has been mostly relegated to a spare shock to be in service when the SV8 is sent to Push for maintenance.

I haven’t taken it apart, so no, I can’t guarantee it, but that’s Push damping. They do poppet style valves in the 11.6, HC97, 9.1, etc. The rebound is standard shims (like they do in the 11.6)

Main piston is shimmed for compression and rebound in all Push shocks, the adjuster uses a coil spring backed valve with no shims and adjustable preload for HSC. The standard bomber CR also uses a spring backed valve but its a very stiff belleville washer instead of a coil, and no shims either. At a distance they have similar basic architecture but the actual execution is very different

Some kind of preloaded valve usually works well at the base valve - its rare to see a regular unpreloaded shimstack in the reservoir. It helps maintain back pressure on the main piston until the shims open, otherwise you need very minimal bleed or very high gas pressure to prevent cavitation. It gives decent adjustment range and allows the main piston to be used for custom tuning. Some will be a shim stack + spring while others are just a spring, but the piston design can have just as much influence on the actual damping curve so shimmed valves can still be very digressive and spring loaded ones progressive

The ELEVENSIX, VT/X, and SV EIGHT all used shim-based compression and rebound stacks. All three use the same architecture for the base valve, which is shimless and manages the external adjustment range of the compression circuit. External rebound is controlling the low-speed free bleed. Damper tuning is all done via traditional shim stacks, so the tuning variables are almost limitless. There's obviously a lot more to it, but that's the general makeup of the three rear shocks. 

Darren

The SV EIGHT is a fully shimmed damper. The newer Transition models have high-rising rate designs....maybe we just needed to get you on a firmer tune. 

Darren

Thanks @PUSH Industries for the response - I really appreciate the detailed information on the function of the dampers.  As I get older and willing to do more work on my own suspension, I’ve really enjoyed learning about oil flow, shims and the workings of different dampers.

I’ve REALLY enjoyed Fluid Focus’ openness - when I wanted to go up a tune on my own, they provided me a spreadsheet with all of the possible tunes, and were swift in getting me the shims I needed. Shockcraft’s system is also cool, but Dougal isn’t as open with his exact shims stacks, only providing a printout and no actual measurements of shims.

Still waiting after a big rain to get out on my new Telum, but can’t wait to contrast it with the other dampers we’ve discussed here!

I follow a lot of these threads, almost no company responds directly with info. Except PUSH. Very much appreciated 

Yeah, I’ve been impressed not just that Push do respond but that they keep doing it so consistently when often they give detailed info to people who don’t understand it and it all goes south.

Nice work Push.

Went ahead and tried out the FF CR build with springdex thanks to SWS's recco. I got to say I am super impressed. It has better sensitivity off top even allowing me to go up in spring rate a bit. Its rebound is way better controlled and having a mid valve between the high and low speed comp really keeps the whole thing very composed and calm feeling everywhere.  

Initial disclaimer....My opinion is that a shock dyno is a necessary tool when tuning dampers. Adding shims, or increasing shim thickness, doesn't always make the damper firmer. Likewise, removing shims or reducing their thickness doesn't always make the damper softer. More specifically, base valve tuning is far more sensitive and requires extensive knowledge and equipment to tune properly. 

In a monotube damper with external compression adjustment, the base valve serves two roles. 

1. It's the foundation for pressure balance inside the damper, which is critical for proper overall function and maximizing performance.

2. It sets the adjustment range of the external adjuster(s).

I mention all of this simply because our rear shocks use a single base valve tune set to work with the range of valving codes we offer for the main damper piston. This ensures a very broad range of tuning options without the risk of damper imbalance. 

Darren

FOX is very good at what they do -Large scale OEM supply. Their strategy is obviously very different than ours. 

As for the SV8, your feedback experience is very different from what we’re experiencing. I guess customers may be unhappy and just not reaching out to us for assistance. If it were me, I certainly would be reaching out for tuning help, and I would hope that our paying customers would do the same. 

It’s important to point out that shimmed and shimless base valves have similar limitations, the same available damping range, and require the same effort when altering them. 

I also think it’s important to point out that in a monotube damper, the primary damping comes from the main piston. The base valve, as I mentioned above, is for setting the external damping adjustment range given to the rider, along with its fundamental role of pressure balancing the damper. 

Base valve tuning provides micro-tuning, whereas the main piston provides tuning across the entire range of velocities and movements. So, your analogy of the cheeseburger is much easier to achieve with main piston valving and generally doesn’t come at the risk of base valve damping imbalance....the most widely recognized being cavitation. 

Darren

Have you tested the different base valve tunes in the Float X/DHX? Most of them have excessive free bleed (the adjuster already has plenty of range) so I've normally only used their standard medium (no bleed) configuration in the past. It makes the changes on the main piston more noticeable while retaining plenty of external adjustment. I've found tuning the base valve means it either ends up too soft so you have no adjustment range and need high pressure to prevent cavitation, or its too stiff and you can't make the main piston tune soft enough. There is normally a middle ground which covers a wide enough range without needing multiple tunes. The new DHX2 shocks I've tested so far also have next to no adjustment range despite multiple base valve tunes. 

The Cane Creek Double Barrell/Ohlins TTX25 had different valving options but they also changed the low speed circuit to match the high speed valves since just changing the high speed wasn't enough to get the range needed.

Vorsprung only had 1 base valve configuration for the Super Deluxe Tractive system too

Speaking as a Push Dealer I have found they listen to feedback and will add tune options if the current ones don't offer the range needed. The SV8 does already have options for different tunes if the customer needs it 

I find myself locking out my pedal bike ('23 Smuggler) air shock often to improve pedaling performance. As my terrain is undulating, this is a PITA.

There are a couple of Fox Live Valve DHX (Coil) Neo Live Valve shocks out there that I can buy (the entire kit) for about the cost of a new mid-level coil shock.

Any opinions on this product's performance (ignoring the price)? I honestly hate batteries on my pedal bike but less than I hate trying to reach down and find that shock switch scores of times per ride.

Today, I was able to ride my Bomber Cr with the Fluid Focus Kit for the first time. Is it normal for the rebound to be quite loud? It makes hissing and slight whistling noises...

Yes that's normal

Sorry if this sounds reductive, but what basics have been done?  What shock is on the bike currently, sag level, low speed compression adjustments? There is a bunch of great shocks out there, sounds weird that you need to go electronic to make a Smuggler with a decent platform pedal reasonably.

That's fair. That stuff is fairly dialed but things can always be made better. On this bike, I'm also willing to sacrifice suspension feel for a better pedal platform.

As such, I added 3psi (which should have me closer to 27% sag) and clicked in LSC 2 clicks on my Cane Creek Inline Air shock, and it definitely improved pedaling performance.

I'm confused by this comment: "I simply find a shim stack base valve configuration superior to a spring loaded valve system for it's potential to be tuned and adjusted." 

My confusion just comes from the fact that spring loaded base valve systems can also be tuned and adjusted. As an example, our ELEVENSIX shock uses a different tune in each of the base valves. The tune for Valve 1, which is the Silver high speed dial, is different from the base valve tune in Valve 2, which is designated by the Black high speed dial. So, if you set both sets of clickers to the same position, the shock will still ride differently when you toggle between the valves. It generally wouldn't be recommended, but there's nothing preventing someone from putting the stiffer ELEVENSIX base valve tune in an SV8. 

I've pondered this before. Seems to indicate that an air shock would actually provide more suspension travel then it's coil counterpart, especially when I compress the sag ring off.  

I have a question. I would like to replace the spring on my Bomber CR. I currently ride a 400. I would like a 425. Which models are compatible? Super Alloy has already been mentioned. Is there also a spring in titanium or titanium look?