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Hey all!
Thanks for all your input on the first video.
By popular request... part 2 of Front DH Tyres Accurately Timed:
Schwalbe Albert Radial Gravity Ultra Soft vs Maxxis Assegai DH MaxxGrip.
Another 15 timed laps on AC/DC at Bike Park Wales to quantify which tyre is quickest. No marketing hype, just data!
Enjoy and let me know what you think.
i rather just read the result
Interesting finding that the radial casing has a better 'feel' in the car park but is then bouncier/less damped in rough stuff. Do you think that could be sorted out by more experimentation with the pressures you run? Or is it more sensitive to pressure overall? The best pressure for flow trails would not be the same as tech trails but perhaps they are much further apart on a radial tire?
I think it's really hard to do this objectively. For once the testers need to get really familiar with the tires and find the right air pressure for all conditions. Especially with the radial casings. Then it needs to be made sure that the rubber compound of the tires is new and has been stored properly (cold and dark). I once bought a cheap magic mary without packaging from a shop (probably covid stock not used for building complete bikes) and it had that grey shine to it and had less grip than the magic mary it replaced because the rubber was noticeably less sticky.
And last but not least if you have an assistant you could get the bike get prepared with a random tire out of your sample with blacked logos and handed to you with fenders, so that you don't see which tire is on before you drop in.
Its also very important how many time the tester spent on which tire before the test. Because if you are very familiar with one tire it might skew the results if it is not a blind test.
It's an exellent point. This is only a theory but I think more pressure in the radial would make it even more bouncy, and based on other reviews out there and Schwalbe's own advice running less wouldn't give the support that I need. I'm not sure what direction to go to "fix" this, or if it even needs fixing as some trails or riders will genuinely favour the ride advantage.
Casing thickness might be a good way to tune this.
Yep, blind testing for sure would be cool, and loads more data will add to the picture.
Not quite sure how I would fund all this since my premise of unbiased/unsponsored content doesn't exactly lend itself to good funding...
I didn't watch the whole videos yet. Did you ride the magic mary radial trail and gravity casings yet? I think you need to experiment with the air pressure a bit more. I'm a bit dumbfounded that you say the ride quality is better but they are bouncier. For me the better ride quality comes from them feeling more planted than non-radial casings which in turn gives me more grip and confidence. It feels like the bike has 10mm more travel...
https://www.schwalbe.com/en/radialtires-mtb
"We recommend initially using the same air pressure as a cross-ply tire with a comparable carcass construction (e.g. Gravity or Super Gravity). However, since Schwalbe radial tires are more flexible than conventional cross-ply tires even at higher pressures and retain their positive characteristics, the air pressure can be adapted much better to the riding conditions. For example, if the track conditions require a higher pressure to prevent punctures, this is easily possible with Schwalbe radial tires without having to accept disproportionately large compromises in grip."
Not tested MM radial yet.
I didn't explain the ride quality very well. I think what I am observing on the bike are two different frequencies of bumps coming through. Radial had less high frequency chatter, the kind that gives you arm pump/fatigue and in this way it feels like less friction in the suspension. However, it gives more low frequency bouncing, the kind that knocks your bike off line when you hit a big bump with a thin carcass tyre (I would probably run more rebound damping with this tyre, but I didn't want to change suspension settings as it gets even more confusing).
At this stage I am speculating on things that I haven't measured but it feels like the Assegai is more heavily damped which helps keep the tyre planted on the ground, but also transmits more of the fatiguing chatter to your arms.
Not sure if it damping or just tyre vertical stiffness and natural frequency.
Yeah, I forgot about suspension setup in relation to the tires. Fuck, this is so tricky! I actually like a slower rebound I think. At least I'm most often close to the fox recommendation and don't open up rebound all the way as some people seem to prefer.
Hey all,
I've kept you waiting a bit too long for this next instalment while I worked on some frame matching tech. Let me know what you think?
Very interesting. I personally find the DD casing to be the best feel for me for a front tire, so feel somewhat vindicated by this.
I am curious to hear what your findings on the HR3 end up being, for a couple reasons. First, it rolls noticeably faster than the Assegai, while retaining very sturdy and supportive side knobs. So it should fare better from that alone. But here on Vital forums there has also been a bunch of speculation that the DH casing version of the HR3 features a stealth revision to the layup, making it more compliant. So if the DD Assegai ended up faster than the DH version, it would be interesting to see how a DD vs. DH HR3 compares, to try and determine whether they really did change the DH casing (does the gap decrease or reverse?).
You need to test the Magic Mary radial. Its a much better/versatile/aggressive tire than the Albert. But I'm not sure if testing tires objectively will work as there are so many variables.
Can't wait to test them.
Honestly the Albert was a big surprise to me, it's not as aggressive as the Mary but it wasn't a muddy day where I would have expected to need a Mary. Will find out 😁
Also interested in the theory about new stealth mods to DH casing.
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