Too many people in the world cup

5/23/2010 4:46pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2016 10:19am
It would be nice to see at least 7-8 "pro" domestic series races - on one tour. JDD's done a great job getting the GRT up and running, I hope that's where it leads. More National level races in Colorado would be nice, and a WORLD CUP here would be the tits!


The way it is now, for me, makes me more stoked on non-series races with purses and less categorization. I feel I've reached (or am getting close) to semi-pro speed, but alas there is no more semi-pro category. Now my field is bloated with a boatload of racers with staggeringly varying degrees of skill. Now that technically shouldn't impede my ability to do well, but with so many folks practicing, racing, etc. it makes it a bit hard to know how fast I have to go and what chances I have to take, etc.. To do consistently well to move up is a task. Maybe that's the way it should be, maybe it make a better racer. Maybe not, I'm still kind of a noob.
5/23/2010 4:55pm
daymz wrote:
I just had a look at the startlist for the first World Cup and I feel that there's is too many people racing World Cup's these...
I just had a look at the startlist for the first World Cup and I feel that there's is too many people racing World Cup's these days and I think the UCI needs to tighten up the requirements to race. It could be just me but I think the World Cup should be for the elite of the sport only - the very top racers. It seems like any kid can race whether or not their anywhere near fast enough to qualify or not.

I also think that if the UCI made it tighter to qualify then there would be a positive flow-on for National level racing for each country as you would have to prove yourself at a National level before getting into the World Cup. It seems like National level racing has taken a dive because everyone can just go straight to the top (World Cup) without cutting their teeth at the lower levels. A good example is the ASP for surfing. You have to qualify to surf the ASP and it really is only the top of the top surfers who get to compete in the ASP.

Let's be honest, am I the only one who turns on freecaster when the top 30 start.
Spell better. Limits being pushed is the only way the rest of the world is going to give a shite about MTB. In truth, if you step out of the info umbrella we are under, as riders, not many people care. Do the research. Also, the attrition rate (read injury) is high in DH, compared to surfing. Many of the best in the world would never get to see the WC circuit if your opinion were to see the light of day. That said, time is the equalizer.
AMC
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5/23/2010 6:56pm
daymz wrote:
WidenJ5 - no need to take it so personally mate it's just a question for debating. I do ride my bike - about 5 times a...
WidenJ5 - no need to take it so personally mate it's just a question for debating. I do ride my bike - about 5 times a week so I don't need to get over it and go ride :-)

Dang, I know how hard it is to race WC. Trust me mate.

What I am really trying to support is National level racing by making the WC's for only the top of the top of the top and that way you have to prove yourself at a National level. Maybe just like the ASP as you have to prove yourself and not anyone in the world can surf that them no matter how good they are or think they are. Maybe something like what they do - If you're finish in the bottom 20 in 2010 you're not automatically racing WC in 2011 and if you finish in the top 5 in your own country then you can apply to race and they pick the best riders to fill those 20 spots.

There has to be a limit at some point and the UCI even recognises that by the 20 point rule so they even think about it. Do you think the English Premier league would be as good if there were 300 teams???
If you think of the championship as qualis then it sort of does. You would get to 300 poeple after the first couple of divisions. you could also think of finals day as the world cup finals and the qualis as the qualifying for that. Anyway I see what your saying that WC races are like the WC finals for mtb. Which is just as valid. So that got no where no offence meant with the earlier remark should have worded it better
nwlooch
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Woodinville, WA US
Fantasy
5/24/2010 1:04am
hey all, I never go on these blogs, probably never will again, love the site just not too much of a blog kid. but I raced Maribor, I got smoked. There were hundreds of factors that went into me getting smoked. pressure, conditions, track, mechanicals, just to name a few. but to get there I had to find 20 uci points. I trained hard and placed well at the races I needed to do well at and found 30 points. I think people underestimate how hard World Cups are. We can sit here and discuss what we think should be the limit on a start list and list reasons why there are "sport/expert" riders at a world cup which is beyond me. The 300 riders that were there are still the 300 best riders in the world all aiming for a spot in the top 80. and to deprive a rider of that chance is kind of unreasonable, those riders worked hard to get there and maybe we are after our 15 minutes of fame, but whats wrong with that? anyways, I am just chiming in here because I want another chance at that 15 minutes of fame and I think that anybody that can make the current requirements should be able to as well. We aren't in anyone's way contrary to what many think so let us have some fun too. The top 80 weren't always the top 80, or did they just magically arrive there? dont forget about the fun, that's what everyone's in it for and if 220 riders want to have some trying to make top 80 let it happen.
much love
bturman
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5/24/2010 7:33am
nwlooch wrote:
hey all, I never go on these blogs, probably never will again, love the site just not too much of a blog kid. but I raced...
hey all, I never go on these blogs, probably never will again, love the site just not too much of a blog kid. but I raced Maribor, I got smoked. There were hundreds of factors that went into me getting smoked. pressure, conditions, track, mechanicals, just to name a few. but to get there I had to find 20 uci points. I trained hard and placed well at the races I needed to do well at and found 30 points. I think people underestimate how hard World Cups are. We can sit here and discuss what we think should be the limit on a start list and list reasons why there are "sport/expert" riders at a world cup which is beyond me. The 300 riders that were there are still the 300 best riders in the world all aiming for a spot in the top 80. and to deprive a rider of that chance is kind of unreasonable, those riders worked hard to get there and maybe we are after our 15 minutes of fame, but whats wrong with that? anyways, I am just chiming in here because I want another chance at that 15 minutes of fame and I think that anybody that can make the current requirements should be able to as well. We aren't in anyone's way contrary to what many think so let us have some fun too. The top 80 weren't always the top 80, or did they just magically arrive there? dont forget about the fun, that's what everyone's in it for and if 220 riders want to have some trying to make top 80 let it happen.
much love
Yeah LOOOOCH!
Total Gnar
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5/24/2010 9:11am Edited Date/Time 10/4/2011 5:11pm
We just need a better international "Busch League" for DH. Once you prove yourself in a lower, or "qualifying," series, you move up.For our international friends, Busch League would be like Formula 2 or Formula 3.

This will make the qualifying series more competitive and attract bigger sponsorships=more racing. (While in turn, will do the same for WC's.) Once you qualify out of the league into the WC's, you're on team that has a permanent place in the WC series, making it more consistent for fans to follow. Something like what Troy Brosnan did was amazing. If he were in a qualifying league and wiped the floor with the competition then he'd move up to WC's the next year. Note: don't get hung up on this rider example.

Basically, all I'm describing here is the hierarchy used in auto racing.

I think 30 two man teams seems ideal for World Cups. It'll be even more "elite" if it takes several years to get to it through navigating and dominating several qualifying leagues. However, implementing this sort of change would take many years, unless someone (individual or company) with a bunch of money and/or know-how does something about it. But look at what Yeti has down with the Mountain States Cup.


5/24/2010 2:35pm
Sven said it best and Looch's 'personal' experience was the head on the nail. BANG! Interesting read none-the-less.
braaaap
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5/24/2010 8:22pm Edited Date/Time 4/21/2016 10:19am
Maybee because I am a marketing guy... but these are my thoughts.
This sport that we all love is just starting to ramp up again with the industry sponsors as well as the big outside conglomerates. Why would we limit the field, the industrys are trying to tap into? This is a great chance for our sport to gain international press, money and a much needed shot in the arm that the outside sponsors are seeing value in. Don't limit the demographics by eliminating half of the field.

Just my .02
E.T.
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Aptos, CA US
5/25/2010 1:02am
Hey Everyone,

I am against limiting the field for world cups. You have to meet strict enough requirements for entry as it is already.

At Maribor in sloppy conditions you had to wash your bike after every run just to be aloud to ride the gondola. This made turn over time for practice runs much slower with a lot less time on the track. Add in hiking sections of the course multiple times to work on better lines and in total with 2 days of practice and a qualifying run I had 6 or 7 runs. I was unable to get up to speed on a new track and I knew it. Crashing twice in my sloppy qualifier and throwing my run away was an unfortunate end to a long few days, BUT I learned a ton. And that is what it takes to become faster as a racer, experience.

You cannot get World Cup experience racing Nationals. Sure there will be the occasional few world cup riders who show up and smoke it, but this still does not prepare you. The level of racing is no where near what a world cup is today. Hopefully it will get there sometime in the future, but until then, world cups reign supreme.

The large field in practice is the same for everyone so I don't see this as unfair. What I do see as unfair is the top 80 practice. WHY do riders who have already raced a track multiple times before need more practice than the rider who has never been here before? It should be the other way around. Why not just make practice sessions all day long instead? Or have specific top 80 practice session, 81 through 160 practice session, and 161 through 240 practice?

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. My 2 euro cents
daymz
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Canberra AU
5/25/2010 5:41am
I'm glad that this has stirred up so much debate. To all those who think it was a stupid useless topic and all those who signed up just to comment - you have proven the point that it is truly worth debating. You are passionate about something and you want to have your say. It's a healthy thing.

I like the comments about a 2nd tier world circuit. It would be great but the $$$ in mountain biking just wouldn't support it right now. Maybe it will one day and I will be happy. I will have a Dirt Fantasy team on such a 2nd tier series and I will be rooting for the young guns and up and coming types to make it to the big league.

It seems like you don't like my example of surfing and the ASP but think about golf (PGA), Tennis (ATP), or the Tour de France. All of these, and probably every elite level of competition, has some strict standard to narrow a field of wanna-be's to can-be's. Heck, even Lance Armstrong has to re-qualify for the Tour this year. If Tiger Woods dropped off the radar, he would have to work hard, to get back to the top. I personally know of some Pro level golfers who would love the chance to play on the PGA tour - they might do well if given the chance. But just like every other Pro, they have to work hard, spend money, travel to strange places, live as cheap as possible, battle the elements, and climb the latter and beg, borrow, and steal to get a chance to play against the best in the world and get on the tour.

I see a World Cup as the PGA and unless it remains elite and for the best it might loose its appeal. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a break away series that was maybe a invite only event for the very, very top riders........The huckers do many of those already.

Keep up the debate.
Rbka
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CA
3/4/2011 8:27am
there are so many amazing up and coming male riders these days... i think giving them the chance to prove themselves in the quali round of a world cup is great-- gives them a perspective into what racing world cups is really like and what level you have to be at to even compete (as previously stated, it's not easy to get the uci points). helps them reevaluate their level of commitment and training and whether the world cup is really what they want to strive for. only 80 racers make the final anyway.
what makes a good racer definitely isn't genetics... it's passion + accessibility and opportunity to race and train. if we the world cup is "invitation only" or "elite only" then there's a point at which it will become stagnant and many young guns will be denied the chance to step up their games and enter into it.

all that being said i think the topic should've been "too many men in the world cup" because on the women's side that is definitely not an issue! (unless you are a total jerk and think women shouldn't be allowed to race at all...)
FCTRY
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Denver, CO US
3/9/2011 9:08am
Limiting it to the top 80 ranked riders in the world would basically guarantee that no one new could get in until someone quit. How is someone outside the world cup series going to end up ranked higher than someone within it? For an American this year, it is going to be all but impossible to earn 20 UCI points anyway. Our natl champs are in September for some fucking ridiculous reason, which means that if it does get UCI inscription, the points gained from it will be useless until 2012. I took a shot a qualifying at MSA and Bromont in 08. I didn't make the final in either but wasn't that far off at MSA, and I got in on the trade team technicality. There's always going to be a few people who probably shouldn't be on the track, whether they managed to get grandfathered in or are representing the national federation for a small country. These are the rare exception, the vast majority of riders on the hill are all pretty decent or they wouldn't be wasting their time and money to get there. With the death of a National Series in the US, the world cups and world champs are the only races out there that give an ambitious racer something to strive for. The Pro GRT is a good start, but it's going to need better than Classe-1 status at a couple races if anyone is going to have a chance at accumulating 20 points. If USAC and UCI don't get their poop in a group, I think they are going to see more and more people put on non-sanctioned events that are better and more popular. Frankly at this point I'd rather see it go that way, although part of me is just inherently ashamed and disappointed that our national racing scene has degraded to it's current state. For all their mismanagement, I had some great times doing the nationals.

So I guess my point is that the making the World Cups more exclusive would only squash racing enthusiasm here more, since there is no stepping stone series to get there already.

All that said, see you at the Triple Dhip!!

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