*Cough* Greg placed 4th overall last year *Cough*
[url=http://www.redbull.com/en/bike/event-series/1331756040389/uci-mountain-bike-world-cup-2016] Just see for yourself
[/url]
As far as actual improvements. Yeah, getting a 29" wheel as strong...
As far as actual improvements. Yeah, getting a 29" wheel as strong as a 26" wheel has required a massive push in technological advancement in wheels. From spokes, to rims, to hubs, to boost. Getting a 29" wheel to not feel like a tippy mess has required a rethink of bike geometry. Getting a suspension platform to work with the benefits of a 29" wheel has taken R and D from companies like Fox. So to say that 29" in DH is somehow bad for the sport, or a cop out, or doesn't require advancements in geometry or suspension is completely missing the mark.
Here's the thing. Minnaar rides bikes better than you, or I, or anyone else on this form, and to have someone like him saying "Hey, this helps me ride my bike better" means that there might be something to this whole 29" thing.
Also, claiming that somehow 29" wheels are going to lead to the downfall of the "young kid" racing world obviously doesn't understand just how expensive any and all forms of racing are. Period. I mean, look at ski racing, I know people who ski raced at the high school level who spent 3k a year on ski wax. . . Alone. . . Add in the fact that you need at least a couple new pairs of skis a year, and you can see that it gets stupid expensive stupid quick. And this is a sport with equipment regulations.
So, the crux of your argument is this: mountain biking is expensive, and 29" wheels are just a way of sucking money out of people's pocket books. To which I would state that: yes, racing is expensive, people with money will always have a technological advantage, but you still have to get your bike down the hill. Nothing is going to change that. Fast people will still be fast on 29", slow people will still be slow. My guess is that if you're middle of the pack with 27.5" you'll still be middle of the pack if you switch to 29"
Wow your really sucked into all the boost and changing standards you get fed, it's definitely not rocket science to make a wheel bigger especially when you already have a proven design to work with, all the wheel improvements you think are so amazing is what's pushed up the price of wheel sets which now cost £3000 plus.
The r and d that fox did was to make a new cast for the lowers same internals dials stancions as previous so not like they had to do overtime or anything.
The designing of geometry to make it work has not happened so don't go sucking anyone off just yet.
That v10 has the same front triangle as the 27.5 and it seems that only an xxl frame will equate to 200mm travel so these are just cobbled together to suit the needs of a very small percentage of riders yet having an effect on the entire sport that will last a while.
Take athletics for example straight up race 100m skintight clothes but regulated footwear, because if someone turns up with more grip on their shoes i.e. More spikes or angled spikes they would have an advantage and we'd no longer know who was fastest only who had the best shoes. Saying that if Greg thinks it's best the sport should all follow is a joke.
Yeah racings not cheap but downhill is relatively cheap compared to other forms of racing and has a certain threshold of accessibility that is continually moved by the industry and all this incredible development you think is great. As for thinking I'm going to believe someone spent 3k on wax to ski then you must be taking me for a fool.
the 29 issue will rumble on, will maybe catch on maybe not but one things for sure the results this year won't be as true as previous years,
say Minaar wins on Sunday with Shaw and Vegier 2 and 3rd, are people going to think they were the best riders on the day or will they think they has the best bikes. New technology to any sport is good but if it's only height specific and suits only people of certain heights then it will be detrimental in the long run, imagine sailing if a tall guy could use a bigger sail, boxing with heavier gloves for longer reach guys, tennis with bigger rackets for bigger guys.
And the thing with dh if it's a team that's just released a new 27.5 bike it's going to be a while before they can get their riders up to date.
As it stands moving into 29 for downhill anyone on fox or maxxis is going to be at an advantage.
I'm of the opinion it's a test of riders skill with the bikes individual abilities secondary to that, different wheel sizes change that.
some people seem to just lust after and accept anything new which is part of the psychology of consumerism.
There already is a 27.5 class -- it's called 'amateurs'.
26" class too -- 'juniors'.
This brouhaha is hilarious. Years ago all yins here and at PB kept telling each other 29" couldn't do this, or that. Wheels were too weak, tires too flimsy, yadayada.
Get over it. They're here because they're legit. You don't have to ride 'em, don't have to like 'em, but you better get used to the idea of people winning races on them, even on tight, twisty courses, because they're faster almost everywhere.
Wanna do flips and twists and spins? Sure, for all dozen and a half of you, #26aintdead. You can have 'em.
There already is a 27.5 class -- it's called 'amateurs'.
26" class too -- 'juniors'.
This brouhaha is hilarious. Years ago all yins here and at...
There already is a 27.5 class -- it's called 'amateurs'.
26" class too -- 'juniors'.
This brouhaha is hilarious. Years ago all yins here and at PB kept telling each other 29" couldn't do this, or that. Wheels were too weak, tires too flimsy, yadayada.
Get over it. They're here because they're legit. You don't have to ride 'em, don't have to like 'em, but you better get used to the idea of people winning races on them, even on tight, twisty courses, because they're faster almost everywhere.
Wanna do flips and twists and spins? Sure, for all dozen and a half of you, #26aintdead. You can have 'em.
Yeah we get that they are quicker better shinier healthier, yet if they are as fast as you say should it be right if they are only suitable for 6 foot riders, can't see the smaller lads getting on with them but even if they do a medium frames only gonna give 160mm travel while xxl gives 210mm so still advantage to the bigger guy.
Yeah we get that they are quicker better shinier healthier, yet if they are as fast as you say should it be right if they are...
Yeah we get that they are quicker better shinier healthier, yet if they are as fast as you say should it be right if they are only suitable for 6 foot riders, can't see the smaller lads getting on with them but even if they do a medium frames only gonna give 160mm travel while xxl gives 210mm so still advantage to the bigger guy.
So, a few years ago -- and even last year -- they were lacking, and now they're cheating?!
That's effectively the line that people are pushing. I could twist that around and say that if a smaller guy has a smaller frame and smaller wheels, then he's got an unfair advantage because his bike is more 'flickable'. Right?!
In the end it's the rider, the day, fitness, luck, etc... and the bike doesn't win or lose the event. Just enjoying that the 736.6mm ceiling has finally been smashed, and looking forward to where things go from here.
Split it up into riders that practice for 4-5 days and those that practice for 2. Or sponsored and non sponsored while we are at it how about actual sponsors kicking in a few million a season? Oh wait the UCI doesn't care scratch that.....
I personally find this whole discussion quite ridiculous.
An awesome downhill bike with wheels that are 1.7~ inches bigger than most other awesome downhill bikes is still an awesome downhill bike.
Downhill is still awesome and downhill will continue to be awesome because it's awesome, regardless of the size of the wheels some people use while they're doing it.
Seriously, some people whine about 29 inch wheels as if somehow they make 29 inch wheeled bikes so radically different from 27.5 and 26 inch wheeled bikes that the person riding on them isn't doing the same sport and riding the same trails as they are.
On topic though; I think the idea of different classes for wheel sizes is preposterous. Let it stay the same as Cross Country and Enduro. Let the rider decide what wheel size they want to ride.
I personally find this whole discussion quite ridiculous.
An awesome downhill bike with wheels that are 1.7~ inches bigger than most other awesome downhill bikes is...
I personally find this whole discussion quite ridiculous.
An awesome downhill bike with wheels that are 1.7~ inches bigger than most other awesome downhill bikes is still an awesome downhill bike.
Downhill is still awesome and downhill will continue to be awesome because it's awesome, regardless of the size of the wheels some people use while they're doing it.
Seriously, some people whine about 29 inch wheels as if somehow they make 29 inch wheeled bikes so radically different from 27.5 and 26 inch wheeled bikes that the person riding on them isn't doing the same sport and riding the same trails as they are.
On topic though; I think the idea of different classes for wheel sizes is preposterous. Let it stay the same as Cross Country and Enduro. Let the rider decide what wheel size they want to ride.
Let the fastest Mountain Bike win the race.
...and not the fastest rider?
Because that's what we are talking about here. At the moment we have one team who have (maybe) gained an advantage over all the other teams because they have beaten them to the draw on bigger wheels. If 29ers win races this year it will be tragic.
It's no wonder Loic is pissed (and probably a lot of other guys). He spent the last few months training his arse off, working with sponsors, testing and developing equipment and now he turns up at WC1 and he is at an immediate disadvantage because the goal posts have moved.
The racing was fast, gnarly, close and exciting last year. Why change that? Oh yeah because it's FASTER...for the Syndicate maybe. Way to go Santa Cruz! This could potentially spoil what was shaping to be one of the most exciting seasons to date.
Lighthowler is the only guy making sense on this entire thread.
...and not the fastest rider?
Because that's what we are talking about here. At the moment we have one team who have (maybe) gained an advantage...
...and not the fastest rider?
Because that's what we are talking about here. At the moment we have one team who have (maybe) gained an advantage over all the other teams because they have beaten them to the draw on bigger wheels. If 29ers win races this year it will be tragic.
It's no wonder Loic is pissed (and probably a lot of other guys). He spent the last few months training his arse off, working with sponsors, testing and developing equipment and now he turns up at WC1 and he is at an immediate disadvantage because the goal posts have moved.
The racing was fast, gnarly, close and exciting last year. Why change that? Oh yeah because it's FASTER...for the Syndicate maybe. Way to go Santa Cruz! This could potentially spoil what was shaping to be one of the most exciting seasons to date.
Lighthowler is the only guy making sense on this entire thread.
The fastest rider on the fastest bike then if it makes you happy... That is how all mountain bike racing works.
There is nothing unfair about The Syndicate riding a bike with a different sized wheel.
That's ridiculous. The "goal posts" have not been moved. The "goal" is to win the race. Specialized and all the other teams/riders/companies have had the exact same amount of time (and plenty have the same amount of or more resources) to produce what they think is the fastest bike. Heck, they might HAVE the fastest bike. The bloody race hasn't even been on yet!
Don't regulate wheel size but it's ok to to regulate compulsory baggy race wear and visors so it looks cool and we sell more rubbish to the sheep.
Wheel size should be the one constant to level the field, I'd buy a 29er so not against them at all but the sport needs to pick a wheelsize and stick with it and keep it an even playing field.
It's a Wild West at the moment.
90% of the riders seem to agree and no doubt uci are looking into it as it is a contentious issue like it or not.
It's regulations that have stoped bmx racing becoming mountain bikes, one bmx racer turns up with bigger wheels saying he thinks it's faster doesn't wash in that sport which is why it's an Olympic sport now.
Can anyone tell us why bmx wheels have stayed small and haven't got bigger despite the evidence bigger wheels are faster? Does anyone consider why sports need to be regulated?
Was lance armstrong patted on the back when he made himself faster?
Wheel size is a constant in any sport that uses wheels except downhill and drag racing for a reason.
Also people saying everyone has had the chance to develop a 29 bike, well not really since the only tyres suitable are from maxxis and the only fork from fox so that part of the argument is rubbish from the off.
The fastest rider on the fastest bike then if it makes you happy... That is how [i]all[/i] mountain bike racing works.
There is nothing [i]unfair[/i] about...
The fastest rider on the fastest bike then if it makes you happy... That is how all mountain bike racing works.
There is nothing unfair about The Syndicate riding a bike with a different sized wheel.
That's ridiculous. The "goal posts" have not been moved. The "goal" is to win the race. Specialized and all the other teams/riders/companies have had the exact same amount of time (and plenty have the same amount of or more resources) to produce what they think is the fastest bike. Heck, they might HAVE the fastest bike. The bloody race hasn't even been on yet!
How dare you try to change my opinion!
Eh? Don't get butthurt. The whole point of a discussion is to try to change the other persons opinion. I'm just giving you my opinion. Take it or leave it, I don't care.
The only reason you can argue that it is fair is because there is no regulation to outlaw 29" wheels.
If (and it's still a big if) 29" wheels are faster, then Syndicate do have an unfair advantage. Many of the smaller teams don't have the resources to develop a chassis and components in such a short space of time. Maybe Specialized and Trek do, we'll see.
If any of the Syndicate riders win races this year, people will say it's because of the bike advantage.
I guess we'll find out on Sunday. I'll be cheering for Loic and everyone else in the 27.5" wheel category.
The fastest rider on the fastest bike then if it makes you happy... That is how [i]all[/i] mountain bike racing works.
There is nothing [i]unfair[/i] about...
The fastest rider on the fastest bike then if it makes you happy... That is how all mountain bike racing works.
There is nothing unfair about The Syndicate riding a bike with a different sized wheel.
That's ridiculous. The "goal posts" have not been moved. The "goal" is to win the race. Specialized and all the other teams/riders/companies have had the exact same amount of time (and plenty have the same amount of or more resources) to produce what they think is the fastest bike. Heck, they might HAVE the fastest bike. The bloody race hasn't even been on yet!
Eh? Don't get butthurt. The whole point of a discussion is to try to change the other persons opinion. I'm just giving you my opinion. Take...
Eh? Don't get butthurt. The whole point of a discussion is to try to change the other persons opinion. I'm just giving you my opinion. Take it or leave it, I don't care.
The only reason you can argue that it is fair is because there is no regulation to outlaw 29" wheels.
If (and it's still a big if) 29" wheels are faster, then Syndicate do have an unfair advantage. Many of the smaller teams don't have the resources to develop a chassis and components in such a short space of time. Maybe Specialized and Trek do, we'll see.
If any of the Syndicate riders win races this year, people will say it's because of the bike advantage.
I guess we'll find out on Sunday. I'll be cheering for Loic and everyone else in the 27.5" wheel category.
In theory, factory teams always have an advantage over smaller teams in any sport. I see no reason to to brand this 'unfair.' It's the nature of racing.
Reading some of the comments here you'd thing the 29er is going to ride itself down the hill, while XC and EWS racing has proven quite the contrary as both wheel sizes remain competitive across a range of tracks and rider sizes/styles.
In theory, factory teams always have an advantage over smaller teams in any sport. I see no reason to to brand this 'unfair.' It's the nature...
In theory, factory teams always have an advantage over smaller teams in any sport. I see no reason to to brand this 'unfair.' It's the nature of racing.
Reading some of the comments here you'd thing the 29er is going to ride itself down the hill, while XC and EWS racing has proven quite the contrary as both wheel sizes remain competitive across a range of tracks and rider sizes/styles.
This is all well and good until competition is none existent when none of the teams can compete because of limited budgets. And then the racing gets boring because you have the same teams winning over and over (i.e. Ferrari during the Schumacher era and Red Bull with Vettel and Newey). Then less people watch and then there are fewer fans of the sport.
There has to be some regulation involved just to ensure parity for competitors and equity for the brands and sponsors. And to keep the racing interesting as well as to keep bikes looking like bikes.
Imagine if, during the season, 29" front and 26" rear turns out to be the winning formula?
Agreed factory teams will always have an advantage, but it's essential for sponsors,fans, smaller budget teams and parity in general that those advantages exist within clearly defined parameters like the rest of the planets sports.
It's also not an issue of simply factory support, Trek factory team has designed a bike for 29 they have the factory fox offering the only 29 fork option but unfortunately their tyre supplier has no suitable 29 to offer. Making a 29 wheel fit an existing frame isn't rocket science all that's required is a new linkage and rear triangle just like syndicate have done the restrictions are with tyres wheels and forks so it's not about cost it's about limited availability of said advantages.
I don't think the comparison between enduro and xc is relevant as an enduro frame will have 160mm travel throughout the frame sizes, in downhill a small medium frame will only get 160mm travel with travel increasing as the frames get bigger that won't change because of saddle interference. This is exactly the point where the advantage becomes height specific which has been mentioned by Barel, Pagey and others.
Also xc is stamina based enduro has many other factors such as reading the course stamina and limited practice, downhill is very different and is balls out pure racing riders running consistent laps any advantage has a greater effect in my opinion.
I honestly think Gwin Danny and Loic will still take some catching but initial reports say up to 3 seconds can be shaved off with the bigger wheel , considering last year races were won by 10ths of a second and 3 seconds separated the top 15 riders I'd say it's enough to ruin the purity of the racing.
Anyone winning on a 29 will have to win by four seconds to get my appreciation of them being the best rider on the day.
It's also feasible someone qualifying 3rd and finishing 3rd at every race could take the overall if that persons on a 29 then it's ruined things.
Rat won on 26 when everyone was switching to 27.5 but the thing is 27.5 could be used by everyone with no reduction of travel on the smaller frames so it never became height specific.
It's clear the majority of riders and team managers don't like the idea.
I think come the end of season many people saying it's great will be saying "yeah that did ruin it"
What is the point of racing if not to see who can go the fastest? The tech is a huge part of that. Should everyone have the same brakes, wheels, tires, drive train, suspension, frame, etc. as well? We want to see whatever bike/component/geometry that is fastest show up and race. And if someone wants to try to race on 47" wheels, I say let them.
What is the point of racing if not to see who can go the fastest? The tech is a huge part of that. Should everyone have...
What is the point of racing if not to see who can go the fastest? The tech is a huge part of that. Should everyone have the same brakes, wheels, tires, drive train, suspension, frame, etc. as well? We want to see whatever bike/component/geometry that is fastest show up and race. And if someone wants to try to race on 47" wheels, I say let them.
Let's do away with the racers themselves and just get Claudio to race all the bikes and see which is fastest if your interest is limited to the fastest and best components. It should be who can ride the bike best not who rides the best bike!
More teams have the means to have 29 bikes racing
Mondraker and trek tested with fox in lousā too.
It was said to me that danny and laurie simply didn't liked the way it rode .
And for their size the 27.5 is probably the way to go
Loïc is a crying baby. As a french myself, I am so pissed he uses the world "cheating" about the use of 29" wheels.
What is the next step? He will go to the UCI guys and cry like he is in the folds of his mother's skirt ?
"The guys whith the bigs wheels are bullying me! They're cheating! Mummy! Make them stop!"
That's so petty!
As Fireant says: "Look at the EWS field.. theres some people on one size, some on others, seems it doesn't give a clear advantage overall or they'd all be on X size so it's more down to how each rider feels for themselves"
Loîc is a crybaby. As a french myself, I am so pissed he uses the world "cheating" about the use of 29" wheels.
What is the next step? He will go to the UCI guys and cry like he is in the folds of his mother's skirt ?
"The guys whith the bigs wheels are bullying me! They're cheating! Mummy! Make them stop!"
Fuck him! That's so petty!
As forum user Fireant says: "Look at the EWS field.. theres some people on one size, some on others, seems it doesn't give a clear advantage overall or they'd all be on X size so it's more down to how each rider feels for themselves"
What is the point of racing if not to see who can go the fastest? The tech is a huge part of that. Should everyone have...
What is the point of racing if not to see who can go the fastest? The tech is a huge part of that. Should everyone have the same brakes, wheels, tires, drive train, suspension, frame, etc. as well? We want to see whatever bike/component/geometry that is fastest show up and race. And if someone wants to try to race on 47" wheels, I say let them.
Let's do away with the racers themselves and just get Claudio to race all the bikes and see which is fastest if your interest is limited...
Let's do away with the racers themselves and just get Claudio to race all the bikes and see which is fastest if your interest is limited to the fastest and best components. It should be who can ride the bike best not who rides the best bike!
So are you saying that a worse rider will win on a better bike. I think the rider has a lot more to do with it than the bike. But, we want the technology to continue to improve. We want the two wheeled machine that goes down the hill the fastest to be the machine that all they racers use. Also but, the fastest machine is going to be different for every rider.
Greg keeping his cards close to his chest it seems. Do we really believe he hasn't done any back to back runs? Somebody who adjusts their bar height by 2.5mm and lever angle by single degrees.
Even Vergier said he did back to back runs himself, and the 29" is faster despite feeling slower.
Why is it wheelsize that gets people up in arms? When Handlebars started to get wider I never heard anyone complain, I know there are a couple guys running 220mm rotors this weekend, haven't heard anyone complain. When travel for DH forks went from 160mm to 200mm I never heard anyone complain...
Why is it wheelsize that gets people up in arms? When Handlebars started to get wider I never heard anyone complain, I know there are a...
Why is it wheelsize that gets people up in arms? When Handlebars started to get wider I never heard anyone complain, I know there are a couple guys running 220mm rotors this weekend, haven't heard anyone complain. When travel for DH forks went from 160mm to 200mm I never heard anyone complain...
Gravity pulls mass downhill, mass moves downhill because of rotation of wheels change wheel size and it affects the effect of gravity on mass.
If you took two bikes with different wheelsize and rolled them down a smooth hill with no rider the bigger wheel would be faster.
Advantage bigger wheels as its increased the effect of gravity it has a bigger hypothetical 'engine'
To be honest all arguments aside it shows how amateur the organisation of the sport is, it should have been handled in a different way, teams and component manufacturers should bring different standards in when it's available to everyone at the same time, if you don't want to be regulated externally get your act together internally.
Least popular team in the pits -syndicate
Least popular rider- Minaar
Minaar can most likely be found either at the Trek tent enquiringly about some spare unused shorty 29ers or looking for Steve Peat with his receipt for a bottle of peatys sealant in hand. ✌️
The r and d that fox did was to make a new cast for the lowers same internals dials stancions as previous so not like they had to do overtime or anything.
The designing of geometry to make it work has not happened so don't go sucking anyone off just yet.
That v10 has the same front triangle as the 27.5 and it seems that only an xxl frame will equate to 200mm travel so these are just cobbled together to suit the needs of a very small percentage of riders yet having an effect on the entire sport that will last a while.
Take athletics for example straight up race 100m skintight clothes but regulated footwear, because if someone turns up with more grip on their shoes i.e. More spikes or angled spikes they would have an advantage and we'd no longer know who was fastest only who had the best shoes. Saying that if Greg thinks it's best the sport should all follow is a joke.
Yeah racings not cheap but downhill is relatively cheap compared to other forms of racing and has a certain threshold of accessibility that is continually moved by the industry and all this incredible development you think is great. As for thinking I'm going to believe someone spent 3k on wax to ski then you must be taking me for a fool.
the 29 issue will rumble on, will maybe catch on maybe not but one things for sure the results this year won't be as true as previous years,
say Minaar wins on Sunday with Shaw and Vegier 2 and 3rd, are people going to think they were the best riders on the day or will they think they has the best bikes. New technology to any sport is good but if it's only height specific and suits only people of certain heights then it will be detrimental in the long run, imagine sailing if a tall guy could use a bigger sail, boxing with heavier gloves for longer reach guys, tennis with bigger rackets for bigger guys.
And the thing with dh if it's a team that's just released a new 27.5 bike it's going to be a while before they can get their riders up to date.
As it stands moving into 29 for downhill anyone on fox or maxxis is going to be at an advantage.
I'm of the opinion it's a test of riders skill with the bikes individual abilities secondary to that, different wheel sizes change that.
some people seem to just lust after and accept anything new which is part of the psychology of consumerism.
26" class too -- 'juniors'.
This brouhaha is hilarious. Years ago all yins here and at PB kept telling each other 29" couldn't do this, or that. Wheels were too weak, tires too flimsy, yadayada.
Get over it. They're here because they're legit. You don't have to ride 'em, don't have to like 'em, but you better get used to the idea of people winning races on them, even on tight, twisty courses, because they're faster almost everywhere.
Wanna do flips and twists and spins? Sure, for all dozen and a half of you, #26aintdead. You can have 'em.
That's effectively the line that people are pushing. I could twist that around and say that if a smaller guy has a smaller frame and smaller wheels, then he's got an unfair advantage because his bike is more 'flickable'. Right?!
In the end it's the rider, the day, fitness, luck, etc... and the bike doesn't win or lose the event. Just enjoying that the 736.6mm ceiling has finally been smashed, and looking forward to where things go from here.
An awesome downhill bike with wheels that are 1.7~ inches bigger than most other awesome downhill bikes is still an awesome downhill bike.
Downhill is still awesome and downhill will continue to be awesome because it's awesome, regardless of the size of the wheels some people use while they're doing it.
Seriously, some people whine about 29 inch wheels as if somehow they make 29 inch wheeled bikes so radically different from 27.5 and 26 inch wheeled bikes that the person riding on them isn't doing the same sport and riding the same trails as they are.
On topic though; I think the idea of different classes for wheel sizes is preposterous. Let it stay the same as Cross Country and Enduro. Let the rider decide what wheel size they want to ride.
Let the fastest Mountain Bike win the race.
Because that's what we are talking about here. At the moment we have one team who have (maybe) gained an advantage over all the other teams because they have beaten them to the draw on bigger wheels. If 29ers win races this year it will be tragic.
It's no wonder Loic is pissed (and probably a lot of other guys). He spent the last few months training his arse off, working with sponsors, testing and developing equipment and now he turns up at WC1 and he is at an immediate disadvantage because the goal posts have moved.
The racing was fast, gnarly, close and exciting last year. Why change that? Oh yeah because it's FASTER...for the Syndicate maybe. Way to go Santa Cruz! This could potentially spoil what was shaping to be one of the most exciting seasons to date.
Lighthowler is the only guy making sense on this entire thread.
There is nothing unfair about The Syndicate riding a bike with a different sized wheel.
That's ridiculous. The "goal posts" have not been moved. The "goal" is to win the race. Specialized and all the other teams/riders/companies have had the exact same amount of time (and plenty have the same amount of or more resources) to produce what they think is the fastest bike. Heck, they might HAVE the fastest bike. The bloody race hasn't even been on yet!
How dare you try to change my opinion!
Wheel size should be the one constant to level the field, I'd buy a 29er so not against them at all but the sport needs to pick a wheelsize and stick with it and keep it an even playing field.
It's a Wild West at the moment.
90% of the riders seem to agree and no doubt uci are looking into it as it is a contentious issue like it or not.
It's regulations that have stoped bmx racing becoming mountain bikes, one bmx racer turns up with bigger wheels saying he thinks it's faster doesn't wash in that sport which is why it's an Olympic sport now.
Can anyone tell us why bmx wheels have stayed small and haven't got bigger despite the evidence bigger wheels are faster? Does anyone consider why sports need to be regulated?
Was lance armstrong patted on the back when he made himself faster?
Wheel size is a constant in any sport that uses wheels except downhill and drag racing for a reason.
Also people saying everyone has had the chance to develop a 29 bike, well not really since the only tyres suitable are from maxxis and the only fork from fox so that part of the argument is rubbish from the off.
The only reason you can argue that it is fair is because there is no regulation to outlaw 29" wheels.
If (and it's still a big if) 29" wheels are faster, then Syndicate do have an unfair advantage. Many of the smaller teams don't have the resources to develop a chassis and components in such a short space of time. Maybe Specialized and Trek do, we'll see.
If any of the Syndicate riders win races this year, people will say it's because of the bike advantage.
I guess we'll find out on Sunday. I'll be cheering for Loic and everyone else in the 27.5" wheel category.
Reading some of the comments here you'd thing the 29er is going to ride itself down the hill, while XC and EWS racing has proven quite the contrary as both wheel sizes remain competitive across a range of tracks and rider sizes/styles.
There has to be some regulation involved just to ensure parity for competitors and equity for the brands and sponsors. And to keep the racing interesting as well as to keep bikes looking like bikes.
Imagine if, during the season, 29" front and 26" rear turns out to be the winning formula?
It's also not an issue of simply factory support, Trek factory team has designed a bike for 29 they have the factory fox offering the only 29 fork option but unfortunately their tyre supplier has no suitable 29 to offer. Making a 29 wheel fit an existing frame isn't rocket science all that's required is a new linkage and rear triangle just like syndicate have done the restrictions are with tyres wheels and forks so it's not about cost it's about limited availability of said advantages.
I don't think the comparison between enduro and xc is relevant as an enduro frame will have 160mm travel throughout the frame sizes, in downhill a small medium frame will only get 160mm travel with travel increasing as the frames get bigger that won't change because of saddle interference. This is exactly the point where the advantage becomes height specific which has been mentioned by Barel, Pagey and others.
Also xc is stamina based enduro has many other factors such as reading the course stamina and limited practice, downhill is very different and is balls out pure racing riders running consistent laps any advantage has a greater effect in my opinion.
I honestly think Gwin Danny and Loic will still take some catching but initial reports say up to 3 seconds can be shaved off with the bigger wheel , considering last year races were won by 10ths of a second and 3 seconds separated the top 15 riders I'd say it's enough to ruin the purity of the racing.
Anyone winning on a 29 will have to win by four seconds to get my appreciation of them being the best rider on the day.
It's also feasible someone qualifying 3rd and finishing 3rd at every race could take the overall if that persons on a 29 then it's ruined things.
Rat won on 26 when everyone was switching to 27.5 but the thing is 27.5 could be used by everyone with no reduction of travel on the smaller frames so it never became height specific.
It's clear the majority of riders and team managers don't like the idea.
I think come the end of season many people saying it's great will be saying "yeah that did ruin it"
Let's wait and see!
Mondraker and trek tested with fox in lousā too.
It was said to me that danny and laurie simply didn't liked the way it rode .
And for their size the 27.5 is probably the way to go
What is the next step? He will go to the UCI guys and cry like he is in the folds of his mother's skirt ?
"The guys whith the bigs wheels are bullying me! They're cheating! Mummy! Make them stop!"
That's so petty!
As Fireant says: "Look at the EWS field.. theres some people on one size, some on others, seems it doesn't give a clear advantage overall or they'd all be on X size so it's more down to how each rider feels for themselves"
What is the next step? He will go to the UCI guys and cry like he is in the folds of his mother's skirt ?
"The guys whith the bigs wheels are bullying me! They're cheating! Mummy! Make them stop!"
Fuck him! That's so petty!
As forum user Fireant says: "Look at the EWS field.. theres some people on one size, some on others, seems it doesn't give a clear advantage overall or they'd all be on X size so it's more down to how each rider feels for themselves"
http://www.vitalmtb.com/features/Greg-Minnaars-Prototype-Santa-Cruz-V10…
37.13 pounds.
Even Vergier said he did back to back runs himself, and the 29" is faster despite feeling slower.
If you took two bikes with different wheelsize and rolled them down a smooth hill with no rider the bigger wheel would be faster.
Advantage bigger wheels as its increased the effect of gravity it has a bigger hypothetical 'engine'
To be honest all arguments aside it shows how amateur the organisation of the sport is, it should have been handled in a different way, teams and component manufacturers should bring different standards in when it's available to everyone at the same time, if you don't want to be regulated externally get your act together internally.
Least popular team in the pits -syndicate
Least popular rider- Minaar
http://www.vitalmtb.com/news/news/RESULTS-Timed-Training-2017-Lourdes-W…
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