To those of you that prefer a higher stack cockpit setup, do you tailor your suspension setup to match the changes to your cockpit? If so, how much less pressure do you run in your fork compared to when you ran a lower cockpit?
I have heard people like to soften the fork a lot and stiffen the rear since higher cockpit setups tend to move your weight into the feet.
I wanna give some high bars a try again, but am not sure how much I should alter my suspension. I had tried high bars in the past but didn't change my suspension, it wasn't a very enjoyable ride so I'm wondering if it'll work out better w/ dialed suspension this time.
I found balance is super important in a high rise setup, but you are on the right track with softer front and slightly firmer rear. I found I can run less LSC in the fork.
What you need to look out for on a long wheelbase high stack setup is porpoising in chunk. This is where having that F/R balance is important. A long Rear centre will amplify things a bit.
once you get it dialled, it's a magic feeling. You stand tall, turn with your hips and have a strong leg based body position that absorbs big hits better. I'm a big fan of it.
I run a fairly high stack setup for my height, and have always trended towards a softer fork setup. I feel like those 2 things go well together. But after you get the right fork & stack height setup, you do definitely need to rebalance the rear so that it's not causing things to see-saw.
@brash can you describe what you mean by porpoising? That’s not like prairie-dogging is it?
As an Aussie I have no idea wtf a prairie dog is lol, but in the words of another fine american, Ricky Carmichael, it's "huckabucking"
basically getting tossed forward and back in an uncontrolled manner
Prairie dogging is typically when you have the front end of a turd about to hang out. 😁
Will echo what those have said here. Bit softer on the fork, and a bit firmer on the rear.
Fork: soft to neutral on air spring, around 20-22% sag. LSC: start at 25% and go up/down as desired. HSC: 50% (this is on a Charger 3.1 damper where they want you to start at 50% and go from there)
Shock: spring: neutral to firm 28%-25% sag feels best to me. (these are progressive bikes 26 - 29%) LSC: start at 50% and possibly decrease. HSC: depends on the bike and terrain/drops. On my Cascade Link + overshocked 150mm 5010 I have HSC at 75%-100%, on the 53lb 170mm Bullit I have it at 50%.
For tokens I always start with no tokens and only put a token in if I'm bottoming hard, but take with a grain of salt as I run Cascade Links on all my bikes.
To me, the feeling of the rear kicking up in a chunky section or a turn and the softness of the fork being there to "catch" it is unmatched. I've found that bar roll plays a huge factor in setting up a bike for high stack too.
Bar roll was the piece I was missing to get a high stack set up to work for me. And address front to rear balance in corners as reaches have grown.
Wish I figured that out about 8 years ago.
In addition to fork pressure, I would also think about stem length and bar roll. Ensuring you're still weighting the front is key, and making small adjustments to each of these areas is likely better than just lowering your fork pressure a bunch. I know a lot of people run 35mm stems, whereas I run 50mm and my bars "mid" or maybe a tiny bit forward. If you run a short stem, try one that's a bit longer.
Another setup style that I prefer is running a mid / firm fork but removing all but 1 volume spacer. I still find support by running a fair amount of HSC and faster rebound, but the linear movement through my travel is predictable and works well with my firmer spring rate coil. For reference, I ride a Madonna.
I agree. A longer stem is beneficial to get weight on the front. My bars are also rolled forward quite a bit and high rise bars are sensitive to bar roll.
Suspension wise I went back from soft to a firmer setup with around 16-17% sag and a lot of compression. I found that I can be more aggressive with the high cockpit and can push my wheel into the ground more. One of the main reasons for that is also the reduced reach I'm riding currently. High stack with a slightly shorter reach works pretty well for me.
In the back I also went up in spring rate, but everything else is pretty much the same.
I think the fork setting mostly depends on the chainstay length (or the front-to-rear center ratio) your riding.
The porpoise and prairie-dog references in this thread made me chuckle.
I may be misinterpreting but listening to the Bikes: Unaffiliated pod yesterday it sounded to me like Lars was recommending almost the opposite to Jason, at least for a dual 29" setup and for his particular bike (V2 Sentinel), in that more sag in the rear with a taller cockpit might be better "...so you're in the bike more...", compared to the softer fork / stiffer rear end setup that this thread and Jason (and myself) seemed to be trending towards. Would be curious to hear more opinions @ride
This is interesting. I'm currently experimenting with and refining the setup of a new to me bike that I've been testing for a bit, and one thing I haven't been able to dial in is that the front feels TOO tall, even with nearly all the spacers removed and a 50mm stem. I flipped from a linear to progressive shock mount, which based on this bike design is softer off the top with more ramp through the travel, and it seems to exaggerate the feeling that I have too tall of stack and turning the bike in flatter corners is not confidence inspiring. I feel like I'm more "in the bike" but that wasn't an issue before and now I feel like I'm doing a "wheelie' for lack of a better term.
If you're riding steeps all the time, then this is less of a concern and I'd agree that softer sag might help. I'll be switching back to linear with more LSC to see if I sit a littler higher in the rear.
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