With all the hullabaloo on the internet about the Death of Enduro or the inexorable takeover of E-bikes, one would think that the sport of pedal bikes as we know it is in full rigor, eulogized, and buried, six feet under with a concrete cap stone. If the loss of Hill, Jack, Jessie, and Richie (?) wasn't bad enough, having Eddie step away with his flip flops and trademark trackside charisma must have sealed the deal. Not to mention having so few teams left on the EDR (what does that stand for again?) circuit, it's hard to imagine it continuing on.
But that's all assuming that Enduro is a top-down format: getting its momentum from the World Cups, the striped sleeves, and the arm chair commentary about the stages being too pedally.
We're going to let you in on a little secret... the spirit of Enduro was never top-down. It's always been a sport for the people, of the people, and no amount of WB lack-of-coverage can change the run-what-you-brung mentality of grassroots enduro.
When Enduro "died" last year the Cascadia Dirt Cup saw races of over 300 in attendance, record pro turn outs, robust youth attendance, and a successful introduction of an adaptive category. Hardly the stats of a dead sport.
So with that, we want to hear what you think:
What do you want to see from Grassroots Enduro? Not just at our series, but any! From the Ma & Pa races at your local hill to your regional circuit.
So ask us (Race Cascadia) any questions you want and we will do our best to answer with as much transparency as we are able. Tell us your Enduro hot takes, dreams and aspirations for the sport, and what you want out of these races. We want to keep our finger on this pulse so we can continue to revitalize, resuscitate, and rise Enduro from the dead.
Give us your roses and give us your thorns. The floor is open!
Lack of new venues and stages is the main reason my enduro loving friends are racing less than they were. I know that’s a really hard problem to fix. But Dh racing (even single crown cat) is a lot more fun I think if it’s a trail you already ridden. And is in a wierd way a little easier to tune the track to feel diffirent enough or just have one new section and some that are blown out and some that are touched up and running great. The real highlight of enduro is the discovery/adventure aspect.
Bike park only events that are expensive. Lack of fresh cut courses. Showing up to an event with some taped sections is the best.
take your race tape down thanks
Liaison times that are awkward but manageable and adhere to any penalties that are incurred. Stages with small climbs or fire road sprints between sections to get away from the dh-lite that (uk) enduro had become
If you want to build a base of riders who love Enduro it's clearly time for a miniduro. Limit the races to half the distance or less with half the climbing or less 12.5 miles, 2-2.5k elevation. For a little more action and condensed spectating and celebrating also have a hill climb competition or two mixed in, find a section of trail that is unclimbable, give points to the top 3 riders who make it the farthest, no dabs, no trials hops, no break in pedaling for over 5 seconds.
Better regulation of brackets. It’s very frustrating missing the podium and the top 3 have times that would put them in the upper 50% of the next level. This is especially important at beginner and sport level. IMO if you have raced pro in the past 5 years and have a time in the top 75% you shouldn’t be able to compete in sport. Likely the same across all brackets.
I think it’s time for this conversation, even though I don’t like it. Expert courses need to be shortened at grass root level. We need to bump riders up same as in BMX and DH based on wins or top finishes. There are too many “sport” riders choosing the category based on “expert is too much climbing for me.” Create an expert/pro class for those experts that want big climb days (thank you for making a vet-pro class btw,) we needed that even if the turn out is small.) I believe the core group of Sport riders would appreciate a change that bumps riders up and creates a truly competitive class again in both Sport and Expert. I don’t love the idea of shorter Expert courses, (Possibly do an expert / vet-pro class with bigger elevation, and bump the non- vet riders up to pro accordingly as well to create a full course for experts that want the big climb days). but I don’t see a better way to keep a good turn out and create a fair racing experience for all racers. For that small handful of sport racers doing it just because they want a podium and won’t race an expert class even with matched elevation….good riddens.
Practice day on Saturday. Race on Sunday. Having the races on Saturday means you have to take off work at least all of Friday unless you know the course. So if you want to make it more accessible, or encourage people to travel to new places, not having to take days off work is a great place to start.
Grassroots doesn't feel grassroots when a race day ends up costing close to $100+. As a parent, it's also hard to justify an 8 hour day to ride 5k feet with all the waiting around between stages. I'm squarely a mid-pack Expert, but taking away the full course from Expert was a bummer. Enduro isn't downhill, managing fatigue throughout the day is part of the game. In other words, a relatively easy day out for a lot of waiting around and money spent doesn't math.
Enduro racing, like all forms of racing, goes through the 'fad stage'. Enduro (local and international) has passed that stage now and will never again reach the fevered pitch it once had. That said, it's still possible for healthy series like the CDC to continue to put on good races and have solid turnouts. The main factor is that once most riders try it once, or a couple times, or do a season or two of it, they move on. They can't justify the time, the cost, etc. to race. There aren't enough 'new' racers to keep the levels topped off. This has happened in Cyclocross racing most recently, but also in XC racing and road racing in the past.
That said, there are a lot of things that a series like the CDC can do to help keep numbers from dropping further, and having a suggestion thread like this (that already has some good ideas) is a great start.
I'd agree these items are on the right track:
-Saturday pre-ride, Sunday race
-Forcing people up in categories
-Making the 'length' of the course more similar to each other so that people don't have the "too much climbing" excuse to not race up.
-Lack of new venues (very hard to 'fix')
-Cost (this is a tough one, too, but as demand decreases, pricing will have to as well)
This is more of a direct comment for Race Cascadia. Could you look into partnering with the WSCL and creating an enduro style race during the XC race weekend, maybe on Saturday after the practice lap time slot? It wouldn’t have to be at every race but a good number of the race venues are right next to some killer enduro trails. Some that come to mind are Cle Elum, Leavenworth, Winthrop/Loup Loup, etc. I think this would really boost the stoke for the kids and draw more interest into Enduro. I think there would have to be some sort of vetting by the teams for which kids could participate based on their skill level as some of the kids at the XC races are brand new to Mt biking and are not ready for that type of riding yet.
This is a great idea (to connect with WSCL), but combining with XC race weekends will likely not work out:
1. Requires many/most parents to get a hotel ($)
2. Most coaches/parents won't want their kids blowing up their legs by climbing in an Enduro race the day before. Since the XC results matter for the WSCL.
3. Will be the haves and have-nots. The kids whos parents bring their enduro bike as well vs. kids on hardtails. Not every family can haul 8 bikes to a race (parents often bring their bikes + 2 kids in the WSCL).
Love the idea, and CDC should definitely be partnering with them, but not on XC race weekends.
Hey Cam, when you ask "where should it go?" I wonder if it needs to go anywhere? It seems like the format you're hosting is popular and working great.
Yeah, I get that Saturday race days are tricky for a lot of people, but if the Cascadia Dirt Cup is selling out on most race weekends... it seems like you've found an audience who that format is working for. When I was racing, I always loved Saturday race days at the CDC because it meant I wasn't getting home at midnight on a Sunday night if I had work on Monday, and when I was racing and working at a church on Sunday (I know, not a normal job), it meant I didn't have to take the weekend off work. Similarly, I can imagine a lot of bike shop employees and other retail and service workers, firefighters, etc being excited to only take one weekend day off (or maybe work their normal weekly schedule) and still being able to race. I can also imagine a lot of people with families being able to leave town for their bike race on Friday and Saturday and still getting to be a normal (albeit very tired) partner and/or parent on Sunday. The CDC is only five races, so taking off up to five Fridays in a calendar year doesn't seem like a deal breaker for MTB racers. For instance, every DH race I've ever been to has had race day on Sunday and most people still showed up to ride on Friday.
WARNING: SOAPBOX MOMENT COMING UP
Ultimately, I think Enduro continues to be the best and most relatable format for people to get into MTB racing. It's tailor made for the local scene. Yes, it typically involves a few near-cardiac-arrest moments in every race, but compared to XC the cardio demands are a cakewalk. Similarly, it typically involves some scary sections and someone heading to Urgent Care, but again, compared to DH it looks and feels a lot safer (although I don't have actual numbers to back up this eyeball observation). I think local Enduro racing occupies a great middle ground for average mountain bikers to experience racing, and it's still the closest that any race format has come to capturing the best parts of a "normal" MTB ride in a race weekend.
Admittedly, Enduro proved difficult to package in a sustainable media and sponsor-friendly format at an elite level, but I think a lot of that is actually a result of ebikes. When the EWS was at its peak, 140-170mm pedal bikes were the absolute top seller for all MTBs, and it made perfect sense to have an elite-level competition on the best-selling bike platform. Now that ebikes are the top seller, we have this sticky situation where people are buying ebikes in droves but no one wants to watch ebike racing, not even the riders' moms. I think this is part of the reason why fan interest in elite DH racing is so healthy right now. If you're not going to watch a race format with the bike you actually ride (i.e. you ride an ebike and either don't own a 140-170mm Enduro bike or you do and it's collecting dust as you keep riding and buying ebikes), and if you're going to sit down and tune in to MTB racing, why settle for anything less than the top speed, biggest jumps, and gnarliest sections in DH racing?
If good ebikes had never happened (I realize that's a big "if"), and if Chris Ball had never sold out the EWS to become the Undead Zombie Enduro Bike Park World Cup (i.e. the UZEBPWC), I think Enduro racing would still be compelling for fans to watch and sustainable for sponsors and media partners to support. Of course, it's a big hypothetical to imagine-away the existence of high quality ebikes, but that's largely the world we were living in up until a few short years ago. Do you remember how weird those old Haibike MTB's were? Kook city.
One more thing: the tracks are the tracks. It would be sick if they were fresh cut and blind every weekend, but that was obviously never going to be a sustainable practice. Motor sports fans have been lining up with big grins to watch the same turns at the same tracks year after year, decade after decade, so I think this expectation of novelty is really a function of cultural norms and expectations more than what's better. Enduro and downhill race organizers tend towards repeating certain race tracks over time because they tend to produce the best racing and the happiest racers. If you don't like the tracks at a certain hill on a certain race weekend, don't go. Your local race organizers are watching carefully to see which races people show up to ( and spoiler alert: most of the time the most attended races are the ones closest to a major metro area, and the quality of the race tracks are a secondary factor in attendance numbers).
Maybe Race Cascadia could include a WSCL category at their Enduro races? I know that if we could include some gravity focused riding into the WSCL somehow it would go along way to keeping kids on the teams and stoked to come out to practice.
Grassroots Enduro should go back to 100% blind racing with weekend events. It levels the playing field, doesn't require a huge time and financial commitment, and it's damn fun!
The massive events like Trans Cascadia, BC Bike Race, Trans New England, Trans Madeira, etc are awesome, but way out of reach for the general population and not welcoming to those new to the sport.
I kind of agree. I looked at Sport times on trails that were also ridden by experts and found that a large portion of the fast times in Sport were very competitive with Expert, and that there were pretty distinct groups within Sport, slower and faster, rather than a bell shaped curve you might expect is Sport consisted of a continuous leveling.
I bumped myself up a notch because like others have said, the endurance part of the challenge is what I’m in for. I’m mid- to upper-pack in Sport, but the time on trail is less than what I would on my normal rides. Not much endurance needed. I like the idea of competing against other people near my skill level on a big day ride.
Great in theory, but it does take a huge, and I mean huge time and money commitment from organizers. A ton of time hunting a location, public or private that can manage having multiple trails built. The time finding and working with land management is probably beyond what many realize. Then building these multiple new trails. Have you looked into per foot cost for trails (they can’t all just be rake and ride). That cost of time would have to be passed to racers… and that’s just the start of true blind racing.
Trans- Cascadia, Sierra Norte, etc don’t race new trails. They are just new to visitors that haven’t been there. Rarely is there a fresh cut trail for those types of events. Cascadia is re claiming trails, and they are well known/ridden by some. To the point, locals have to opt out at these events or they will just race one day to not be in the overall mix, because they have such a huge advantage. I think the reality is true multi stage blind racing would more exspemsive that traveling to a Trans- race.
I of course would love to race blind, but the reality is it’s not a reality that is realistic.
I think your vibe is spot on except for E-bikes, Enduro and DH. The reality is Chris Ball had to sell after the multiple doping issues, if he didn’t bring UCI he couldn’t afford to have clean racing.
I also believe Enduro never sold enduro bikes. DH racing has always sold Enduro bikes, well before e-bikes happened. There is a reason brands have the biggest budgets for DH, and yet it’s the smallest market they sell too. Just as NASCAR, F1 sales cars, not Sedan, truck, or van racing.
E-bikes want to be raced, but the locations are just not available. I think that will change though. Enduro had a great run and it was hot in world level but at the end of the day if you can’t market it to the guy sitting on his couch in a package that’s exciting to watch an follow it will fail as a high level racing option. DH will always be king of MTB viewership, no matter what bikes are selling in the shops.
The advent of Enduro, and subsequent All-Mountain bike boom (Or am I getting it backwards? Chicken or the egg I guess) definitely lead to the "discovery" of a ton of overlooked trail networks, as well as the construction of plenty more. At least in the PNW it's easy to associate the starts of Tiger Mountain, Raging River, Sandy Ridge, with the excitement of long travel pedal bikes and the race formats they allowed.
15 years later, we've raced most of these systems half a dozen - a dozen times, and new venues and trails are being constructed at a far slower rate then a decade ago. I wonder what the middle ground is? Maybe this is an opportunity for promoters to work with land managers and coordinate trail construction with race dates? A "If you clear a swath, we'll use the race to set a tread" sort of arrangement. It's been done before, but it would be fun to see it done more.
Alternatively, I wonder if we're fixating on too narrow a scope of what trail networks would work for enduro? DO we need 1200' runs or a would folks be happy with 300' runs and more stages. This could help get more overlooked venues online.
As someone who has raced these events for 5 years I am a huge fan of the CDC. I love the people, the venues, and the racing. As far as where it is going, I wouldn't say no to Sunday races but understand the reasoning behind the split day event. I have noticed the days have gotten bigger but am down with it as we are here to push ourselves. Though slightly less vert on the day might get a few more racers out and help the bottom line, I am a fan of a 6 k foot race day.
As to where the CDC can go, the Venues are amazing and I love getting around the I 5 corridor. I would love tot check out new places in Oregon like Fear and Loaming, but its hard to complain about Darrington, Tiger, Raging, North Slope, and Galby. All great networks that are only held back by the lack of parking. Multi Day racing could be fun, maybe link up Galbraith and Chuckanut/ blanchard or Tiger and Raging on back to back days. Perhaps if Dry hill were a venue again a combined DH/ Enduro would be incredibly fun. Maybe even throw in an xc for extra points.
I'm making note here that this is +1for less Mini DH.
Personally I think that this is an underrated opinion, and that the DHification of Enduro has limited options for what promoters can throw at their racers. That said, as a promoter, I have absolutely contributed to this because it felt like where racers wanted the sport to. Maybe it's time for the pendulum to swing back?
And maybe staying exactly where we are is what needs to happen, I think what I find intriguing is if there is not a functional World Cup aspect of Enduro for Grass Roots to model off of, then do we need to stay this course? At least at the CDC we've had a stead drum beat of "Bigger, harder, faster, longer" in regards to stages and courses, and I wonder how much of that was driven by Pro's with EWS/EDR aspirations, and regular Joe's who are trying to give them selves an experience as close to the World Cup as they're able. If the DHification of Enduro is no longer coming from the top, do we want to pivot, because if so this is kind if the time. Im not saying EVERY trail needs to be Hush Hush/ Salal trail, but more of that is kinda rad...
Saturday/Sunday racing... woof. I don't think that there is right answer. We polled a few dozen racers last season as to which day they would rather race, and it was right down the middle. Schedules are hard, especially with kids. We kept Saturday as race day mostly because it made land managers happier by having one less event day on a weekend.
I did just get a text from a racer with two ideas that directly pertain to both ebikes, and media. I'm hoping that he will chime in and lay it out in his own words, but in the meantime, he suggested E-Racing on the Sunday after the Enduro. Same course, different course, maybe an opportunity to figure out if there is a format of E-racing that isn't just... easier enduro. I don't say that with judgment, just that I personally would love to see some E-racing that utilized the motors on course in a way that analogue can't replicate.
All this aside though I agree, Enduro continues to occupy a space that I think makes it the most approachable form of racing for the masses. It is just a big bike ride with friends. And I think for that reason alone no matter what happens to the industry, the format will prevail.
I like how you edited your post just to throw shade at the old Haibikes, very Team Robot of you. Welcome back.
And as far as tracks and metropolitan areas go... Tiger Mountain fills up rain or shine. May or September. Do with that what you will.
I think a big appeal of enduro races is that the majority of the race is untimed, converting windows where one would normally worry about speed/pace/efficiency into an opportunity to enjoy their surroundings/community/snacks. This just naturally can take some of the stress out of the race, making it a more intriguing format to the general mountain biker. As @Race Cascadia pointed out, a lot of regional series are still seeing growth. I'd be interested to see numbers comparing growth in grassroots XC, enduro, and downhill racing alongside eac other and the growth of mountain biking participation.
At the 'Ma & Pa' level, I'd like to see more miniduros in areas with less elevation. There's plenty of trail networks in/around larger metro areas that could hold a 3-5 stage race with just a couple hundred feet of descent. In theory, they should be easy to organize (less trail to cover, more volunteers in the area, no lodging needs, less formal timing, etc...); however, I imagine a lot of these probably die early in the planning stages due to the safety risk and being a scaled-down/silly version of an actual enduro somewhere else. XC racing restricts the community aspect to the time before and after the race, whereas a miniduro provides opportunities for community throughout the event. If you look at a miniduro as a way to highlight a couple good sections (not necessarily descents) of your trail network, then it can be a community-building event that would probably be more accepted by IMBA chapters and land managers (and parents looking for sports for their kids).
From the miniduro "races", you could at least increase awareness of "enduro" racing amongst the area's riders. Presumably, this could help build up the regional circuits. I think riders are more likely to dip their toes into racing enduro at an affordable nearby trail network than a larger regional/national race a half-days drive away. Once they catch the bug, then they'll pursue those regional races. Obviously, this could exasperate some of the current struggles of regional enduros stated in this thread (competition vs. recreation, price increases, etc...). In an ideal world, more local races would create more people with the experience and desire necessary to organize more larger enduro races.
Seriously though: clean up your race tape.
In regards to the WSCL comments I think the first step is not seeing overlap of race weekends. It seems to me Cam and David are aware of this and working together ot some extent to keep overlap of events happening. Some teams such as Tahoma and Mount Si already have riders within their teams that race the CDC. They usually have tents up and support their riders well at these events. Those teams have created Enduro segments with inside the team and from what i an see do a great job of supporting the youth racers at these events. Bi- Geargrinders is also doing this as well. They also created a team that includes a gravity focus for NW Cup. I personally don;t see a need to blend XC with CDC racing, but it is great to see youth programs offering support to their riders that are more interested or also interested in gravity racing. I guess my question to parents of WSCL is, what are you looking for in asking WSCL and CDC to combine or blend racing? Is it just not having an overlap of events? Would the next step be to actually work with your teams lead coach to create a Enduro group withinn your team? Do you need contacts with the coaches of teams that have made this work to have a XC and Gravity groups within their team work well, for ideas and pointers to set yours up?
I guess my point is that WSCL doesn’t need to be a purely XC oriented league. It’s not even in their mission statement “Mission | Promote youth development, diversity, and stewardship through cycling to positively impact the future.” XC just happens to be the easiest form of racing to organize for 750 kids. This leads me to my next point is that the youth involvement in WSCL dwarfs that of the CDC. And I don’t think that’s due to the majority of kids preferring XC over Enduro. I think it’s due to the fact that David has built an awesome youth league that’s easily accessible which allows kids to go ride with their friends on a team every week. I understand that some of the larger, better funded teams do participate in racing outside of the WSCL but that is only because they are self insured, which is not cheap.
A couple more points I feel are relevant.
I’ve seen kids join our team because it’s a kids Mt bike team then leave because XC isn’t their cup of tea. It would be great if we could offer something else for those kids to keep them involved.
CDC and NW Cup racing is expensive. I’ve seen parents not have their kids participate because of that. I think it would be beneficial if WSCL and Race Cascadia could partner and make enduro racing a little cheaper and more accessible for youth.
If nothing changes, everything is fine the way it is now, but Cam asked for ideas on improving Enduro racing and I think that making it more accessible for kids to participate in would be a step in the right direction. Partnering with the WSCL would potentially be a way to do it.
I am not super familiar with your series so I got on your site last night. Looks like your ebike classes sell out first is this correct? It seems funny that a lot of people blame ebikes for some of the decline of enduro racing but if you ride an ebike your most likely on an enduroish bike build/travel, riding enduroish trails and if you're on an analog enduro bike your bike is probably better than it was because of ebikes.
I did think racing ebikes at an enduro sounded pretty lame before I bought one. I know that sounds bad but I have been curious about doing a race or 2 since getting mine. I think there could be some format changes or areas that would make it unique to race ebikes not just these bikes at a regular enduro. I could see the multi-day races like stone king being a good style of ebike races or anything that just more backcountry in general.
I'm one of the youth coaches out there with the wscl and many of our kids also race in the CDC as and Northwest cup.
My comments to your question Cam, mix up the format a little. When you did that super long run at Tiger a while back that was awesome. Some people hated it, and some people loved it, but everybody was talking about it! Do more of that but maybe let's throw a race in there with more shorter stages too. Just look for opportunities where you could add some diversity in the course.
I also agree with the comments about the sport category and while I rhink that I probably have the skill to race the expert stages, not competitively though, I definitely don't have the legs for it. Sport is bogged down by a bunch of guys like me that maybe need a different category to race in.
That being said, I also think light category should have at least two stages you and beginner should have three. Even at the beginner level they should be able to get the full Enduro stage race day feel. Racing one stage is basically just downhill with a climb at the beginning of the day. I'm definitely am excited about your pricing for light and beginner this year and I think that's going to make a big difference.
Now on the topic of the Washington student cycling League...
Don't mix it up. CDC is doing an amazing job at Enduro and wscl is doing an amazing job at cross country. We don't need to create a solution when there's no problem. You guys doing an amazing job at coordinating with each other and minimizing the overlap of race weekends too.
The difference is, the Washington student cycling league is a non-profit run by an army of volunteers who, for the most part, do it with the full intention of introducing kids to the amazing experience of mountain biking and helping them become stronger people for it.
The wscl offers an unparalleled opportunity for students with literally no experience and maybe not even a bike, to experience competitive mountain biking with a group of friends and well organized and supportive teams.
The result of all of this is something like 35 youth teams and 750 students. I'd like to see you try and fit that in the tiger parking lot...
Cross country doesn't require the level of equipment that Enduro does and it definitely doesn't have the risk factor either. This significantly lowers the barrier of entry into competitive mountain biking for many many students who are brand new to the sport and coming from families who have no idea what they're getting into.
I would never take a kid who has been on a mountain bike for a month to any Enduro race or downhill race, ever. I take kids who have been on a mountain bike for a month to cross country races all year long and they have an absolute blast and come back for more. Some of those kids stay committed and we gladly take them to the CDC when they're ready for it.
I bring this up because directly blending the two disciplines is potentially a recipe for disaster and you're going to end up with a large number of kids who are not properly equipped or trained to participate in an Enduro style race and you're asking them to incur a significantly higher price of participation with the increased need for protective equipment and a proper bike, which works against the mission of the WSCL.
At its core, the wscl is essentially a youth outreach program, at least that's how I treat it.
Race Cascadia is a an event organizer that puts on a really amazing opportunity for people to participate in, and they're really good at it.
We are lucky to have them both in our region.
When I raced enduro moto the results went like this. The fastest time of the day and anyone who got within 20% of that time got gold medals. Then the time bracket below silver medals. Then all the rest and ALL people that finished the event got a bronze medal. I still have all my medals and having your country’s best rider giving encouragement and handing out the bronze medals as you cross the finish line creates people that return again and again.
I’m glad Joe chimed in.
I see where you’re coming from, and I want to see the youths options grow as well. The cost of an entry fee is not the true expense of racing. It’s the travel, food, lodging, etc. It is nice to see lowered prices for the shorter coursed beginner classes. That makes sense to me.
I think when I read this I feel this really is a conversations for WSCL, as they do have year round insurance for riders in their program. It’s a little gray as it sits how that would carry over for Enduro racing. So I do understand your concern with cost of insurance. I do know the insurance covers team riders year round even if WSCL doesn’t explain the insurance that way, or wants to limit what youth can race. I think this is really a great thought that WSCL teams need to bring to WSCL to open up opportunity for their youth riders to compete in more than WSCL events. If Cam was to work with WSCL it would open the door only to his events. Why not focus on WSCL so that it could open the door to riders to do any events their team wants to attend? The potential for introducing the youth to all avenues of MTB racing (and beyond) is limited to the organization, not a collaboration with a specific event.
The big kicker is it will take effort on the part of the teams to push for WSCL to open their doors to supporting youth outside their race series. That will take a lot of effort from parents, and coaches who are all volunteering their time, and not being paid. I think the big picture is short sided by asking CDC to do that leg work when those committed are already racing both series.
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