Love you Vital but this is kind of a funny question. There are other variables that play into the equation. EG, STA and rear center plays...
Love you Vital but this is kind of a funny question. There are other variables that play into the equation. EG, STA and rear center plays into this too.
That said, I'd like to suggest mountain bikes will eventually figure out what moto figured out 30 years ago. 63-64 is good for just about everything.
Get offset right, get the rest of the bike's geo right and I could see a time where XC bikes have very similar geo to enduro bikes.
"But it'll wander while climbing" - no, not really, you just need to get used to how a slacker bike handles going uphill
"But the front tire will come up while climbing" - not with appropriately sized chainstays
"But it'll only be good in the steep stuff" - Not once you learn to weight the bike properly.
Anecdotal Proof: The best handling bike I rode in 2018 was the Stumpjumper Evo. I smoked more uphill KOMs on that bike than any other bike I've owned in the last 3-4 years. Raced XC and did well. Was faster on any kind of single track on this bike. The bike had other shortcomings (stay tuned for the full review) but yeah, my YZ250 handles well in the woods, and so does a mountain bike with the same headtube angle...
For the last 4 years I’ve been riding a 150mm 29er trail bike with a 66 degree head angle. I got it because I wanted something more nimble and playful, and I knew I wouldn’t be racing enduro or riding much bike park for a few years. But I still love riding rocky trails that are for the most part not steep.
2 years ago I put a 160mm fork on, last year I got curious and did a -2 degree angleset, and then this year put a 170mm fork on. Each time the fork offset and bar height (relative to bottom bracket) stayed the same, except for decreased reach from the angleset. So now the HA is around 63.
I was super surprised how subtle the changes felt. On flat ground I barely noticed the -2 degrees, I didn’t feel much loss of “nimbility” riding flow trails or being playful but what felt great were corners. Leaning the bike over felt way more stable with that caster effect on the front wheel and I did feel more deliberate driving the front wheel of the bike. As y’all mentioned, steep stuff also feels great, especially when it’s rough too.
I need to ride it more, but being super used to this bike, I’ve felt almost no drawbacks to the slacker HA, at least where I ride in CO. Yeah, with a longer fork on steep climbs sometimes you have to lean forward a bit, but it hasn’t been uncomfortable for me. We have very little rolling terrain, even easy trails here are very much climb and then descend, and for that it’s been awesome. It doesn’t feel like more work to ride.
Edit - so if I was buying a new 160/170mm bike, I’d want it to have a 63 HA, all other things being equal, preferably without a monster reach.
I've just ordered my fourth Works Components headset. 3x -2° recently, and a -1° (since that's all that fits) on an old EC34 hardtail.
Every bike has been improved by the swap. Current hardtail has a 63° HA with a 140mm fork, outgoing fully is 64°, new one should be 63°~63.5°. I don't know how slack is too slack yet (I hear a lot about bushing bind below ~62°) but these are trail bikes on appropriate terrain.
You don't have to pedal on dirt bike.
For the last 4 years I’ve been riding a 150mm 29er trail bike with a 66 degree head angle. I got it because I wanted something more nimble and playful, and I knew I wouldn’t be racing enduro or riding much bike park for a few years. But I still love riding rocky trails that are for the most part not steep.
2 years ago I put a 160mm fork on, last year I got curious and did a -2 degree angleset, and then this year put a 170mm fork on. Each time the fork offset and bar height (relative to bottom bracket) stayed the same, except for decreased reach from the angleset. So now the HA is around 63.
I was super surprised how subtle the changes felt. On flat ground I barely noticed the -2 degrees, I didn’t feel much loss of “nimbility” riding flow trails or being playful but what felt great were corners. Leaning the bike over felt way more stable with that caster effect on the front wheel and I did feel more deliberate driving the front wheel of the bike. As y’all mentioned, steep stuff also feels great, especially when it’s rough too.
I need to ride it more, but being super used to this bike, I’ve felt almost no drawbacks to the slacker HA, at least where I ride in CO. Yeah, with a longer fork on steep climbs sometimes you have to lean forward a bit, but it hasn’t been uncomfortable for me. We have very little rolling terrain, even easy trails here are very much climb and then descend, and for that it’s been awesome. It doesn’t feel like more work to ride.
Edit - so if I was buying a new 160/170mm bike, I’d want it to have a 63 HA, all other things being equal, preferably without a monster reach.
I've just ordered my fourth Works Components headset. 3x -2° recently, and a -1° (since that's all that fits) on an old EC34 hardtail.
Every bike has been improved by the swap. Current hardtail has a 63° HA with a 140mm fork, outgoing fully is 64°, new one should be 63°~63.5°. I don't know how slack is too slack yet (I hear a lot about bushing bind below ~62°) but these are trail bikes on appropriate terrain.
Try some things, see for yourself.
Post a reply to: Where is the Head Angle Sweetspot for Enduro/Trail?