Forum Hot Seat - Darren Murphy, Founder of PUSH Industries

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Suspension
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'size
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'size 1/23/2018 11:30am
1/23/2018 11:30am
Regarding the 26" Pike ACS-3 question. If the spring side shaft/piston determines travel and the 150mm 650b and 160mm 26" shafts are the same, what's the reason a 150mm 650b ACS-3 kit couldn't work in a 26" 160mm fork? What else is different about the two forks that makes it not compatible with 26"?
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 11:32am
1/23/2018 11:32am
schuster19 wrote:
How do you guys at push tune for bottom out control on a more more linear leverage ratio bike such as a Yeti 5.5 or 6...
How do you guys at push tune for bottom out control on a more more linear leverage ratio bike such as a Yeti 5.5 or 6 paired with a linear coil without making the ride too harsh from over-damping or going too stiff on spring rates? Also wondering about compression/spring conflicts while maintaining bottom out control for shorter travel bikes such as the Evil calling/ following mb?
For starters, we use different Rod Bumpers that vary in density and length to achieve a progressive spring characteristic. We also house the bumper in a "cup" design which allows us another range of tuning the progression. The combination is selected based on the frames leverage characteristic. In the case of the Yeti's we use a longer more progressive bumper system.



Additionally, we also not only valve the shock differently, but again in the case of the Yeti, we actually machine valves with a different flow rate to change the compression damping characteristic. These are just some of the many things that are unique to ELEVENSIX that allow us to tailor the spring and damper to be optimized for each application.




As for the EVIL bikes, even the short travel versions have quite a high rising rate linkage. This combined with the things I mentioned above create a package without conflicts.
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 11:35am
1/23/2018 11:35am
freebiker wrote:
Will you ever make an air rear shock?
Ever? Probably? Maybe? Not Sure?

Hope that helped! Smile
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 11:38am
1/23/2018 11:38am
kwapik wrote:
I have to say your company produces some great products. The Elevensix is a work of art. What options are there to improve the 2018 Fox...
I have to say your company produces some great products. The Elevensix is a work of art.

What options are there to improve the 2018 Fox 34 Rhythm? What would you suggest?

And then, is this the way to go or would it be better to sell the Rhythm and purchase something else?

Thank you for taking the time to do this Q & A.
Thank you very much.

To be honest, we don't really have any experience with the new Rhythm fork so I wouldn't be the best person to ask. Sorry I couldn't be of more help on that one.
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 11:40am
1/23/2018 11:40am
If I couldn't ride PUSH products? Wow....I would probably just take up golf or something.... Smile
'size
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'size 1/23/2018 11:43am
1/23/2018 11:43am
How do you see mtb suspension evolving in the next 5-10 years?

What are your thoughts on electronic suspension like the RS e:i and Fox live valve platforms?
kev.1n
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kev.1n 1/23/2018 11:45am
1/23/2018 11:45am Edited Date/Time 1/23/2018 11:46am
The Elevensix is one amazing shock, everyone I know loves theirs and can't speak more highly of it. I would be stoked to get one onto my nomad 4 soon! The only thing that I think holds a lot of riders back from getting one is the price tag, me included. Are we ever going to see the Elevensix offered a lower price? I'd imagine demand would increase a lot more if it was offered at a lower price.

Cheers Darren, keep doing what you do!
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 11:47am
1/23/2018 11:47am
'size wrote:
Regarding the 26" Pike ACS-3 question. If the spring side shaft/piston determines travel and the 150mm 650b and 160mm 26" shafts are the same, what's the...
Regarding the 26" Pike ACS-3 question. If the spring side shaft/piston determines travel and the 150mm 650b and 160mm 26" shafts are the same, what's the reason a 150mm 650b ACS-3 kit couldn't work in a 26" 160mm fork? What else is different about the two forks that makes it not compatible with 26"?
It has to do with the timing of the Air Bump Stop engagement with the lower rod. With our ACS3 kit you have to have a matching lower rod and upper assembly to make it work. We just haven't worked on the 26" wheel packaging to be honest so I'm not sure what the options would be.
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 11:59am
1/23/2018 11:59am
'size wrote:
How do you see mtb suspension evolving in the next 5-10 years? What are your thoughts on electronic suspension like the RS e:i and Fox live...
How do you see mtb suspension evolving in the next 5-10 years?

What are your thoughts on electronic suspension like the RS e:i and Fox live valve platforms?
You kind of nailed it. Electronic suspension is surely on the rise and will be something more commonly seen on showroom floors very soon and a focus of future development.

For us, we're focused more on keeping the wires away from our products and refining spring and damping systems that are lighter weight, refined more for each application, and putting external adjustments in place that allow the end user to define their own ride. That was really paramount in the development of ELEVENSIX for me. I wanted to have two completely independent compression circuits, but I also wanted to ensure that the rider could define what each setting did. Suspension setups are subjective, and we want to improve the riders ability to have the final say in how it performs.
trivialmtb
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trivialmtb 1/23/2018 12:01pm
1/23/2018 12:01pm
-Given that most bike products are much better than a decade ago, what would you say is the worst suspension product on the market today?

Follow up question:
-Is it true that the Double Barrel Inline Air shock tested worse than a Fox Alps from 1996 when put on a dyno?

Call out question:
-What bike is the biggest pain in the ass to tune for?

Sarcastic but only because your stuff is the jam:
-When can we expect an all made-in-america, better than anything else on the market, $2300 PUSH dropper post?

Serious question:
-What would you say has been the (single) biggest advancement made in suspension during your time in the industry?
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 12:17pm
1/23/2018 12:17pm
kev.1n wrote:
The Elevensix is one amazing shock, everyone I know loves theirs and can't speak more highly of it. I would be stoked to get one onto...
The Elevensix is one amazing shock, everyone I know loves theirs and can't speak more highly of it. I would be stoked to get one onto my nomad 4 soon! The only thing that I think holds a lot of riders back from getting one is the price tag, me included. Are we ever going to see the Elevensix offered a lower price? I'd imagine demand would increase a lot more if it was offered at a lower price.

Cheers Darren, keep doing what you do!
Thanks....we look forward to getting your new Nomad sorted for you!

This question came up in an earlier post as well regarding the price point. As I mentioned, we would have to make significant changes(compromises) to our product and process to lower the price. We're very proud, and completely committed to of our "Made Here" and "Performance First" values.

PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 12:27pm
1/23/2018 12:27pm
trivialmtb wrote:
-Given that most bike products are much better than a decade ago, what would you say is the worst suspension product on the market today? Follow...
-Given that most bike products are much better than a decade ago, what would you say is the worst suspension product on the market today?

Follow up question:
-Is it true that the Double Barrel Inline Air shock tested worse than a Fox Alps from 1996 when put on a dyno?

Call out question:
-What bike is the biggest pain in the ass to tune for?

Sarcastic but only because your stuff is the jam:
-When can we expect an all made-in-america, better than anything else on the market, $2300 PUSH dropper post?

Serious question:
-What would you say has been the (single) biggest advancement made in suspension during your time in the industry?
-Yikes....Worst suspension product? Not sure on that one. That's not an award we want!

-I've never had an ALPS on the dyno so I wouldn't have an answer, not to mention we'd have to define the test.

-Fully rigid bikes rate the highest in this catagory.

-I don't remember anyone in our planning meetings saying it was going to be anywhere near that much?

-Ahem...Dual Overhead Valve System! Smile This is very tough as a single answer honestly. The original Bomber chassis, Propedal, and Maxle are some highlights.
rugbyred
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rugbyred 1/23/2018 12:39pm
1/23/2018 12:39pm
Hello,
I have an 11/6 on my Patrol and it is quite impressive. I was all set to press but for the ACS3 for my 36 170mm but I read in the MTBR thread about them being pulled because of noise issues. Is this true and if it is, has the situation been remedied? What causes the noise? Is it because of the limited space for the spring to fit for the length?
Thank you,
Eric
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 12:57pm
1/23/2018 12:57pm
rugbyred wrote:
Hello, I have an 11/6 on my Patrol and it is quite impressive. I was all set to press but for the ACS3 for my 36...
Hello,
I have an 11/6 on my Patrol and it is quite impressive. I was all set to press but for the ACS3 for my 36 170mm but I read in the MTBR thread about them being pulled because of noise issues. Is this true and if it is, has the situation been remedied? What causes the noise? Is it because of the limited space for the spring to fit for the length?
Thank you,
Eric
Awesome! I've been rocking a Patrol for a while as well.

It is true that we're having a noise issue in the 170mm configuration. 140-160mm kits are all good, but the extra length in the 170 causes a slapping noise against the inner stanchion that isn't acceptable with some of the rates. We're working aggressively to resolve the issue and get back to shipping that size.
rugbyred
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rugbyred 1/23/2018 1:04pm
1/23/2018 1:04pm
Thank you for the response. Is it for the heavier riders that the springs cause noise? I’m 210 without gear.
Eric
matt.greenwood001 1/23/2018 1:40pm
1/23/2018 1:40pm
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are 150lb over the recommendation of a calculator?
artnshel
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Boulder, CO US
artnshel 1/23/2018 1:41pm
1/23/2018 1:41pm
I have a 170mm Lyric fork and will buy the ACS kit this spring. Before I do I want to know if the Fox 36 damping control is much better than the Lyric? I'm willing to get your upgrade for either damper but don't want to invest in upgrading the Lyric's spring and cartridge only to still wish I had the Fox.
Thanks, a loyal 11-6 owner.
Tom
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Tom 1/23/2018 2:00pm
1/23/2018 2:00pm
What are your thoughts on a triple clamp fork for 160-180 trail bikes?
Personally I don’t understand why they are not a thing yet. Modern trail bikes get push hard these day and I hate to say it but surely the e bike market would benefit from them as well.
Reading that you have spring fitment issues with 170-180mm forks. The longer stanchion would over come this issue.
Do you think they might be an option in the near future and do you think frame manufacturers would need to work with suspension manufacturers to come out with a product that they would be compatible (covered by warranty) with a triple clamp fork?
sspomer
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sspomer 1/23/2018 2:01pm
1/23/2018 2:01pm
Just a heads up everyone, we're going to officially close the Q&A in about an hour (3pm PST), so Darren can go to bathroom : ) but you can continue leave your questions here and he'll do his best to answer them in the future.

Great questions and answers so far, everyone! Stoked on the discussion. You've all proven we have such a solid community here at Vital, so thank you.
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 2:43pm
1/23/2018 2:43pm
rugbyred wrote:
Thank you for the response. Is it for the heavier riders that the springs cause noise? I’m 210 without gear.
Eric
It's a little bit of all of them.
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 2:45pm
1/23/2018 2:45pm
matt.greenwood001 wrote:
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are...
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are 150lb over the recommendation of a calculator?
150lbs over seems excessive. I'm assuming that we're not talking about an ELEVENSIX here as I'm not aware of any application where a customer has had to do this. What's the bike and your rider weight?
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 2:47pm
1/23/2018 2:47pm
artnshel wrote:
I have a 170mm Lyric fork and will buy the ACS kit this spring. Before I do I want to know if the Fox 36 damping...
I have a 170mm Lyric fork and will buy the ACS kit this spring. Before I do I want to know if the Fox 36 damping control is much better than the Lyric? I'm willing to get your upgrade for either damper but don't want to invest in upgrading the Lyric's spring and cartridge only to still wish I had the Fox.
Thanks, a loyal 11-6 owner.
The FOX FIT RC2 system is more refined than the Charger in the fact that the FOX has a finer resolution to the external adjustment range. That being said, they're both very good.
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 2:50pm
1/23/2018 2:50pm
Tom wrote:
What are your thoughts on a triple clamp fork for 160-180 trail bikes? Personally I don’t understand why they are not a thing yet. Modern trail...
What are your thoughts on a triple clamp fork for 160-180 trail bikes?
Personally I don’t understand why they are not a thing yet. Modern trail bikes get push hard these day and I hate to say it but surely the e bike market would benefit from them as well.
Reading that you have spring fitment issues with 170-180mm forks. The longer stanchion would over come this issue.
Do you think they might be an option in the near future and do you think frame manufacturers would need to work with suspension manufacturers to come out with a product that they would be compatible (covered by warranty) with a triple clamp fork?
I think the lack of dual clamp forks is mostly due to turning radius in a trail bike application. I like the idea for packaging, but understand the limitations of maneuverability.
'size
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'size 1/23/2018 3:27pm
1/23/2018 3:27pm
if you get back to this, what are your thoughts on the aftermarket products that increase negative air volume or add adjustability to the positive air chamber of forks? i'm thinking of the luftkappe and sd components dvc specifically, but in general do you think these types of products are beneficial to the average rider running stock forks?
Bushamster21 1/23/2018 3:48pm
1/23/2018 3:48pm
Thanks for taking the time for this! I've been watching lots of bikes come through but you're still teasing the Slayer. Got an eta on when I can order one up? Got any tips for someone who's struggling to setup their suspension? On a super deluxe and Lyrik RCT3 and still can't get it right.
matt.greenwood001 1/23/2018 4:00pm
1/23/2018 4:00pm
matt.greenwood001 wrote:
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are...
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are 150lb over the recommendation of a calculator?
PUSH Industries wrote:
150lbs over seems excessive. I'm assuming that we're not talking about an ELEVENSIX here as I'm not aware of any application where a customer has had...
150lbs over seems excessive. I'm assuming that we're not talking about an ELEVENSIX here as I'm not aware of any application where a customer has had to do this. What's the bike and your rider weight?
2013 SB66 with a DB Coil, my weight is about 200/210lbs. Was recommended a 450, but have had a 600 in, tried everything with lower spring weights damping wise, had LSC all hte way on at points to try and slow it down before the HSC came in to prevent bottom out. Could I just fit a firmer bump stop?
sspomer
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sspomer 1/23/2018 4:04pm
1/23/2018 4:04pm
Bushamster21 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time for this! I've been watching lots of bikes come through but you're still teasing the Slayer. Got an eta on when...
Thanks for taking the time for this! I've been watching lots of bikes come through but you're still teasing the Slayer. Got an eta on when I can order one up? Got any tips for someone who's struggling to setup their suspension? On a super deluxe and Lyrik RCT3 and still can't get it right.
have you seen this? #drool
https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/Matt-Barker,45848/setup,35926
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 4:05pm
1/23/2018 4:05pm
'size wrote:
if you get back to this, what are your thoughts on the aftermarket products that increase negative air volume or add adjustability to the positive air...
if you get back to this, what are your thoughts on the aftermarket products that increase negative air volume or add adjustability to the positive air chamber of forks? i'm thinking of the luftkappe and sd components dvc specifically, but in general do you think these types of products are beneficial to the average rider running stock forks?
Honestly, we don't have a ton of experience with those items. They seem to be quite popular and I've spoken to riders that really like them, but outside of that I wouldn't have a lot of info.

PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 4:07pm
1/23/2018 4:07pm
Bushamster21 wrote:
Thanks for taking the time for this! I've been watching lots of bikes come through but you're still teasing the Slayer. Got an eta on when...
Thanks for taking the time for this! I've been watching lots of bikes come through but you're still teasing the Slayer. Got an eta on when I can order one up? Got any tips for someone who's struggling to setup their suspension? On a super deluxe and Lyrik RCT3 and still can't get it right.
The shock is done...we're just waiting on finishing up the lower mounting pin from our manufacturing department. It won't be long though!

Are we talking about the RS stuff being on your Slayer?
PUSH Industries 1/23/2018 4:11pm
1/23/2018 4:11pm
matt.greenwood001 wrote:
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are...
Any chance of some progressive rear shock springs for those of us wanting a coil but not wanting to have to put in springs tha are 150lb over the recommendation of a calculator?
PUSH Industries wrote:
150lbs over seems excessive. I'm assuming that we're not talking about an ELEVENSIX here as I'm not aware of any application where a customer has had...
150lbs over seems excessive. I'm assuming that we're not talking about an ELEVENSIX here as I'm not aware of any application where a customer has had to do this. What's the bike and your rider weight?
matt.greenwood001 wrote:
2013 SB66 with a DB Coil, my weight is about 200/210lbs. Was recommended a 450, but have had a 600 in, tried everything with lower spring...
2013 SB66 with a DB Coil, my weight is about 200/210lbs. Was recommended a 450, but have had a 600 in, tried everything with lower spring weights damping wise, had LSC all hte way on at points to try and slow it down before the HSC came in to prevent bottom out. Could I just fit a firmer bump stop?
Yeah, we'd put you on a 475lb/in with an ELEVENSIX. The 25lb/in increments are a big deal on the flatter leverage bikes. Not sure if you saw the previous post regarding the Yeti frames, but of you're going to run coil you need to put something on that has been specifically setup for that application. A firmer bump stop isn't offered for that particular shock that you're running.

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