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I'm very much of two minds about the Saints comments myself - I agree with a lot of what was said about them being monsters and how they can feel very much dialed in for a rider familiar with them, I have them on 2 bikes since 2014; but it never occurred to me that I was doing something "different" than how I would engage with other style of bike breaks. I rented a Pivot for some Phoenix area riding and I never felt like I was doing something "different" with how the break engaged, certainly not to the level...