Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

jonathanheierle wrote:

Only big complaint about the Brembo brake is that it utilizes another new pad standard? 🙄 Disappointing if you ask me. Hopefully the performance justifies this...

Only big complaint about the Brembo brake is that it utilizes another new pad standard? 🙄 Disappointing if you ask me. Hopefully the performance justifies this. Also 1000 euros with a bleed kit is just insane to me. May as well just hold out and buy Intend trinities at that price point. Also disappointing that every set of Brembos at sea otter was assembled without oil so no one could actually feel the brakes. Luckily I got to feel them on a bike in whistler last season but didn't get to ride them around at all.

FrontRangeFriend wrote:

The Trinities also come with a bleed kit lmao

jonathanheierle wrote:

Right, and it’s really, really simple. Just uses basic plastic syringes you can buy at Walmart, nothing special about them and then the bleed puck and...

Right, and it’s really, really simple. Just uses basic plastic syringes you can buy at Walmart, nothing special about them and then the bleed puck and putoline 2.5 which is admittedly tricky to find in the US. I’ve had to buy it directly from intend but the trinity is no doubt the easiest brake to bleed, it’s astonishing how easy it is to get them feeling perfect. I just hope they update the caliper to have a bigger pad/piston layout. Currently uses a code pad shape and it has enough stopping power but not quite that wall of power that a maven offers, especially on heavier applications like an ebike. Would be awesome if they just upped it to take a hope v4 pad shape and slightly bigger pistons to offer a little more stopping power 

jonathanheierle wrote:

Only big complaint about the Brembo brake is that it utilizes another new pad standard? 🙄 Disappointing if you ask me. Hopefully the performance justifies this...

Only big complaint about the Brembo brake is that it utilizes another new pad standard? 🙄 Disappointing if you ask me. Hopefully the performance justifies this. Also 1000 euros with a bleed kit is just insane to me. May as well just hold out and buy Intend trinities at that price point. Also disappointing that every set of Brembos at sea otter was assembled without oil so no one could actually feel the brakes. Luckily I got to feel them on a bike in whistler last season but didn't get to ride them around at all.

TheFBI wrote:

Most importantly the Brembo's are garish and hideous.

boozed wrote:

From part of Pinkbike's Sea Otter coverage.  Where the hell is plain black?!  Or even silver?

 

ethanrevitch wrote:

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple...

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple products it's much easier to optimize if you can control the whole system. They also had heavily emphasized that this is just a Moto GP (which doesn't have as many standards) brake brought over and made smaller, hence the "backwards" rotors. 

Brembos have indication of being stronger than Intends. 

jonathanheierle wrote:

Only big complaint about the Brembo brake is that it utilizes another new pad standard? 🙄 Disappointing if you ask me. Hopefully the performance justifies this...

Only big complaint about the Brembo brake is that it utilizes another new pad standard? 🙄 Disappointing if you ask me. Hopefully the performance justifies this. Also 1000 euros with a bleed kit is just insane to me. May as well just hold out and buy Intend trinities at that price point. Also disappointing that every set of Brembos at sea otter was assembled without oil so no one could actually feel the brakes. Luckily I got to feel them on a bike in whistler last season but didn't get to ride them around at all.

ethanrevitch wrote:

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple...

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple products it's much easier to optimize if you can control the whole system. They also had heavily emphasized that this is just a Moto GP (which doesn't have as many standards) brake brought over and made smaller, hence the "backwards" rotors. 

Brembos have indication of being stronger than Intends. 

ethanrevitch wrote:

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple...

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple products it's much easier to optimize if you can control the whole system. They also had heavily emphasized that this is just a Moto GP (which doesn't have as many standards) brake brought over and made smaller, hence the "backwards" rotors. 

Brembos have indication of being stronger than Intends. 

kane wrote:

That's a strange statement because Brembo's motogp rotors look like 2-piece construction with a symmetrical carrier and a different material on the braking surface.I hope they...

That's a strange statement because Brembo's motogp rotors look like 2-piece construction with a symmetrical carrier and a different material on the braking surface.

I hope they haven't just scaled down a motogp brake because it would probably be shit.

ethanrevitch wrote:

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple...

Talked to people at Brembo for a while on Thursday. The new pad standard and rotor was done to control the whole ecosystem. Just like Apple products it's much easier to optimize if you can control the whole system. They also had heavily emphasized that this is just a Moto GP (which doesn't have as many standards) brake brought over and made smaller, hence the "backwards" rotors. 

Brembos have indication of being stronger than Intends. 

kane wrote:

That's a strange statement because Brembo's motogp rotors look like 2-piece construction with a symmetrical carrier and a different material on the braking surface.I hope they...

That's a strange statement because Brembo's motogp rotors look like 2-piece construction with a symmetrical carrier and a different material on the braking surface.

I hope they haven't just scaled down a motogp brake because it would probably be shit.

Primoz wrote:

MotoGP brakes are carbon... 

Primoz wrote:

MotoGP brakes are carbon... 

kane wrote:

Yep, with a separate carrier - https://www.the-race.com/content/images/2025/01/Bike_MotoGP_GresiniRacing_2025_12.jpg

No idea how they relate to the MTB rotors

snowsnakes wrote:

Are the “silver” DHR Evo pros actually that weird metallic blue-grey color? I’m thinking of getting a set for my Reeb SST since it can only...

Are the “silver” DHR Evo pros actually that weird metallic blue-grey color? I’m thinking of getting a set for my Reeb SST since it can only run 180mm rotor in the rear, and I push it pretty hard. Just need to decide between black or “silver”. 

sethimus wrote:

how would you rank all the high end brakes you tested and why?

Shinook wrote:

I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to...

I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to work on, and all (mostly) consistent. I mainly say that because people adore Saints and I found them to be the weaker in almost every category compared to others, but still good. 

I'd also caveat that "power" is somewhat misunderstood IMO. Most people don't have the means to measure overall, total available power, rather they base it on how the brakes feel. A brake like the Maximas may have a ton of overall power, but the Mavens feel more powerful because the power comes on sooner as the brake ramps up. This will also be relative to your weight and how you want the levers to feel.

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'll go into more detail. For reference, I'm 220lbs on a ~33lb steel 29er.

Power: Maven >= Radic > Intend > Maxima > Hope T4 V4 > Dominion > MT7 > Saint - The Mavens have a very quick power deliver,y once the pads engage the difference between "I'm slowing down" and "I'm skidding" is miniscule. This can be dialed in with contact point adjust, but they apply power more progressively than any other brake I've tried. The Radics have a really similar feel with a lighter lever, but feel a bit more controlled and have less deadstroke, basically instant engagement, I ran these closer to the bar than any other brake. The Intends are very close to that feel, but with a much lighter feeling lever and overall better feel, although they lack contact adjust so you can't tweak them as easily. Both Maximas and T4 V4s have enormous power available, but it comes on later in the stroke and is harder to define in lever feel and requires a longer lever throw to obtain. They are the epitome of having a smooth, light, powerful brake that requires a longer lever stroke to get there. I love Dominions and I loved the MT7s, but the power comes on later especially with the latter. I didn't find Saints to be as powerful but they are good enough. 

Consistency: Basically all of the above were consistent with two exceptions. I have been able to fade Dominions on long, flowy descents. I've torched them more than a few times with no change in lever feel, but I've had them turn mushy a few times and that's not an issue I had with most of the others. On the Saints, I had the wandering bite point problems I had with every other Shimano brake, but only in cold and I think this is, in part, due to brake technique where two quick pulls of the lever causes it to change. Some don't have this problem, I did. The rest were very consistent, rarely changed lever feel, and I had no issues in hot/cold or with fade provided they were bled properly. The Mavens did exhibit some wandering bite point (BADLY) when they were new out of the box, but doing the piston massage procedure did away with it. 

Lever feel: (For me and what I'm after) Intend > Radic > Hope > Maxima > Dominion > MT7 > Saint > Maven - The Maven lever feel isn't as bad as people act like it is, but it is firm compared to the others. It's not that it is unusable or awful, just that the other options are smoother and require less force through the deadstroke (I'd argue the engaged force to power is better than some are acting with the Mavens though). I loved the feel of them overall, but the stiffer spring is off putting compared to others. The MT7s were very consistent and smooth, but power came on later than I liked, the first few rides on them I blew a few corners because I kept expecting them to grab faster coming from the Radics. The Hope and Maximas have a lot in common, it's a very light feeling lever even when the pads engage, but it can be somewhat vague if you aren't used to them compared to others, you don't get that 'wall' of sorts you do with other brakes, it is light all the way through and that can take some adjustment. The Radics have a super smooth lever but engage almost immediately with no deadstroke. The Intends are the best of the above, moderate deadstroke, even power delivery, smooth/light lever feel, easy to identify the brake point, and good ergonomics. My preference in this category is a quick power delivery, but lighter riders or those who want a longer lever throw might place Hope or Trickstuff higher.

Aesthetics: They are all nice except the Mavens. They are the ugliest thing on my bike at the moment and I'm dying to get them off. It's very off putting for an otherwise great brake. The Trickstuff, Hope, and Intends are all beautiful in their own unique ways. 

Cockpit: The Mavens suffer from the reservoir sitting too close to the bar. This means controls may not fit where you want because it interferes with the reservoir being so damn close. Otherwise you have a lot of positioning with the lever. The Dominion and MT7 share a lot of similarities in this regard as well, but aren't super notable otherwise, you have plenty of lateral movement across the bar to position them and your controls, although I prefer hinged levers. The Hopes have a super long lever blade that might interfere, but I found that they sat so far inboard it didn't interfere with my other controls. The Radics, Intends, and Maximas all have a lever brace on the reservoir. This is a good thing that prevents flex, BUT it also means that some controls won't sit properly outboard of the clamp due to the lever brace being in the way, this is particularly noticeable on the Radics. The Maximas are generally OK in this regard, but the lever reach adjuster might conflict with controls. The Intends have one possibly fatal flaw I mentioned before: the brace position combined with the usable lever length means using long grips like Meaty Paws positions the lever so far inboard you can't reach it. I have it near slammed against my grips and it's fine, but this may be a problem for people with certain hand sizes. The Saints have a super nice, rigid feeling clamp that I wish others would adopt. The Mavens will flex slightly under heavy power, IMO they should've adopted a stronger clamp, Matchmaker just isn't it.

Install/Bleed/etc: The Intends are the cleanest bleeding brake I've used, they are super easy to bleed and install, I also like that they use a reusable fitting that rotates. The Maximas are more work due to the braided hoses, but are pretty easy if you can cut them properly, they also have instructions for aligning the hoses, which is nice. The bleed process for the Maximas is often complained about but I had no issues, I just followed the instructions and it worked out. They should include the bleed block with the brakes, it's absurd they don't. I had issues with the Hope hose kinking and twisting, but other than that it wasn't noteworthy. The Saints, MT7s, Dominions, were all easy to bleed and install, although I know some report problems with alignment on the MT7s and bleed problems, but I didn't have that issue. The Radics are easy as well once you get used to working with the braided hoses, the Bleeding Edge fitting they use is super nice. Finding Bionol in the US is a nightmare though, for those and Trickstuff. The Dominion bleed block includes a half block on one side you can use to work the pistons out safely and clean them, IMO everyone should do this. Hope provides something similar in the form of a STL file you can 3d print, but not everyone will have access to one to do this.

Value: Overall the Dominions are the best combination of everything IMO, if not the best at any one category, but for the price you get a lot of good stuff that makes them the best value IMO. The Trickstuff are a hard sell at $1200 and I think it's dumb they don't include the bleed kit, block, and especially fluid given how hard it is to find. The Intends I feel are a good value considering everything they come with and their performance, but they are hard to obtain and no doubt expensive. Hopes are kindof middling, more expensive than Dominions, but cheaper than the others and offering similar performance/feel. The problem with them is quickly finding parts if you are in the US. You can get MT7s very cheap these days, but I'd still opt for Dominions over them given the other factors. 

If you like running levers close to the bar and want a ton of power, get the Radics, there is no better option with such a short deadstroke to power point. If you want a long, linear, smooth pull with gradual power delivery, Hope T4 V4 or Maximas will get you there, with the Maximas being slightly more complicated to work on and harder to find parts for (this may be a major issue down the line and is my #1 concern with anything Trickstuff). If you want rapid power delivery, the Mavens, Radics, or Intends all fall into that category (in that order), the Mavens require more throw than the Radics but power comes on faster once the pads engage. Overall for most people I usually suggest the Dominions, they are a good average point despite not being the best at everything, they are good at everything and lack the pitfalls of some of the others. For very heavy riders, Mavens or Radics would be my choice. Lighter riders would get along better with the Hopes, Maximas, Dominions, and possibly MT7s. The Intends are a slightly more powerful, easier to work, and refined Dominion, so if you can get them and don't fall into one extreme or the other in how you want them to feel or weight range, they are amazing.

I haven't tried TRP, Beringer, or that brand that's a number (I forget what it is).

Shinook wrote:

Quoting myself because I'm lame. I wanted to add a few notes to this comment from a few years ago. I've almost exclusively stayed with the Mavens...

Quoting myself because I'm lame. 

I wanted to add a few notes to this comment from a few years ago. I've almost exclusively stayed with the Mavens in the on/off again riding I've done since posting this and they've remained fairly consistent since. I don't think much has changed with any of the above. 

I have since tried the Maven Base, Cura 4, and the Oak Maven levers. 

The Maven Bases were a disappointment. They came on an OE build I had and I had heard good things about the lever feel, which was an improvement over the Ultimates I've used (since they were released) in terms of strength required, but the power is considerably less. Anecdotally it seemed like the lever took 2-3x the amount of stroke for the same power out of the Ultimates. I had to run the levers pretty far out in comparison and clench my hands to put power down whereas the Mavens Ultimates felt a lot more effortless for the same power. Keep in mind I am 225lbs on a near 40lb bike, so lighter riders might get along better with them. 

This is kinda where reviews lose me when they have 160lb riders on them. The Base were reviewed highly elsewhere but the lighter rider probably got along fine with them because their power needs were different in comparison, but for me it was a rough experience. They felt closer to Codes to me than they did Mavens and I wasn't super impressed with their power.

I also added Oak levers to my Maven Ultimates and really like the feel. The levers are more ergonomic and it feels like you can position the blade closer to the bar without having issues losing needed stroke. It also kinda feels like they reduced deadstroke a bit (I didn't measure this directly so take that with a grain of salt). It's not a massive improvement but enough of one that I plan on leaving them on. The overall feel of the Intends and Hopes is still better, but this adds a bit of refinement to them.

I mentioned this earlier (I think, I'm not searching) but I tried the Cura 4s and did not get along with them, at all. The aesthetics are nice, but installing the 'upgraded' lever was kindof a janky process and I was not impressed with the power. They were consistent but had kindof a rubbery feel to the lever and the power delivery was such that I had to run the levers out into space just to get enough power out. 

I'm planning on picking up some Brembos when they become available because I'm an addict and need an intervention. At this point I don't plan on looking at any others except maybe GR4s, the Br4ve seem like they have kinda squishy levers and that brand with the number in them sounds like they'd feel like Maximas, which didn't work out great for me.

AndehM wrote:

Mini-rant here:  a buddy just got a new bike that came with Mavens.  He's normally an Saints guy, but wanted to try them.  Texts me and...

Mini-rant here:  a buddy just got a new bike that came with Mavens.  He's normally an Saints guy, but wanted to try them.  Texts me and says they feel kinda mushy.  I have him bring the bike over, and start by doing a piston massage (which should have been done at the factory or the shop he got the bike from).  Instantly the rear brake gets very snappy and feels great.  I try massage the front brake, one piston is very sticky but eventually moves, but the whole system never firms up (feels like there's not enough fluid in the system).  So I bleed the front, then do the massage again, and it's nice and snappy now too.  How many hundreds or thousands of users have been turned off these brakes just because they were not adequately installed/prepared by the factory or shop?  It's not hard at all, just takes a little bit of time.

AndehM wrote:

Mini-rant here:  a buddy just got a new bike that came with Mavens.  He's normally an Saints guy, but wanted to try them.  Texts me and...

Mini-rant here:  a buddy just got a new bike that came with Mavens.  He's normally an Saints guy, but wanted to try them.  Texts me and says they feel kinda mushy.  I have him bring the bike over, and start by doing a piston massage (which should have been done at the factory or the shop he got the bike from).  Instantly the rear brake gets very snappy and feels great.  I try massage the front brake, one piston is very sticky but eventually moves, but the whole system never firms up (feels like there's not enough fluid in the system).  So I bleed the front, then do the massage again, and it's nice and snappy now too.  How many hundreds or thousands of users have been turned off these brakes just because they were not adequately installed/prepared by the factory or shop?  It's not hard at all, just takes a little bit of time.

Shinook wrote:

I got mine the day they came out and my shop told me about the procedure. They said it was a required procedure or they'd be...

I got mine the day they came out and my shop told me about the procedure. They said it was a required procedure or they'd be this exactly, but it sounds like they had tested them before and their rep at SRAM told them to do it. 

The issue is SRAM didn't communicate it well, at all. The massage process that they have in the install instructions isn't sufficient, you had to go into the service manual to find the process that actually fixed them and it wasn't obvious. It should have been documented as part of the install/bleed process

AndehM wrote:

Mini-rant here:  a buddy just got a new bike that came with Mavens.  He's normally an Saints guy, but wanted to try them.  Texts me and...

Mini-rant here:  a buddy just got a new bike that came with Mavens.  He's normally an Saints guy, but wanted to try them.  Texts me and says they feel kinda mushy.  I have him bring the bike over, and start by doing a piston massage (which should have been done at the factory or the shop he got the bike from).  Instantly the rear brake gets very snappy and feels great.  I try massage the front brake, one piston is very sticky but eventually moves, but the whole system never firms up (feels like there's not enough fluid in the system).  So I bleed the front, then do the massage again, and it's nice and snappy now too.  How many hundreds or thousands of users have been turned off these brakes just because they were not adequately installed/prepared by the factory or shop?  It's not hard at all, just takes a little bit of time.

storm.racing wrote:

Primoz wrote:

Is this plastic??