Introducing Ochain - A Clever Chainring Spider Designed to Reduce Pedal-Kickback 40

I think it would be neat to try. I love gadgets. Hopefully you can figure out how to get the price down in coming years. Good luck!

Well in the end, to be fair it's an interesting idea - and good to see that people are trying to invent new things. But sorry, it's not a "Game Changer," it's more like another specialized piece of tech.

People toss the term around way too loosely these days, but a true "game changer" is something that is so revolutionary that it becomes a true standard that everyone wants - like a dropper post, or hydraulic brakes, or tubeless tires. These are things that actually "changed the game" to benefit everyone - from novice to pro. But to be honest, when a majority of MTB riders can't even understand how to set their rebound correctly, they probably don't or won't have "reduce pedal kickback" high on their list of MTB things to do.

Also what makes it specialized is the $300+ USD asking price - for what amounts to a mechanically modified chainring spider. It serves a function that a majority of MTB people don't even notice, and (more importantly) are not willing to spend that much money on, compared to other items that they can feel more immediate results (like a dropper post, or a new set of tires, or good pedals). This Ochain is tech that most people don't need, but some people might like to try - just like a ShockWiz or a Di2 programmer or those Revgrip things.

Where and why is born "Game Changer"
Was one year ago, during the first test with a different rider than me. This test meant a lot to me. He should have made me understand if all the advantages I felt were my invention or if they were real. Simone Medici, a Big name in downhill Italian field and a world cup rider, was the right person to take the test. At the end of the track, with his Kona Operator 2019, he took off his helmet and spoke the following sentence: "game changer"
since then it has become our motto, with Ochain Simone has won the Italian championship and Loris Revelli has won the title of Italian Champion. Only successes. During the tests we always took seconds off the traditional transmission. And now the strongest world cup drivers are testing it and the feedback is the same.
why GAME CHANGER? I hope that over the years you will understand it for yourself.

Totally did not understand what I explained, but okay.

You can name drop racer names all you want, but racing is a small fraction of the mountain bike community. Their job is to endorse products that they generally get for free. That doesn't mean it will become a "standard on any good mountain bike" OEM spec feature, and that doesn't mean the majority of mountain biking will actually buy it.

I hope that it doesn't take years for you to understand that.
Good luck though, and stay safe.

Can't wait to get one of these and get some slow engagement back into my onyx hub. What a game changer.

Next step is to add a wireless electronic servo with handlebar mount to “open” for decents and “close” for best pedaling.

Hmm, I guess that won;'t work. Freewheels in the wrong direction

Ochain is not a free wheel! Ask to Neko Mulally and Loris Revelli if works or not...

LOL. Seems like Shimano had the right idea in the 80's where they had the freehub in the crank and the cassette attached directly to the rear wheel. You did not have to be pedaling to shift. Sucked when you got your pant's leg caught in the chain, however!

I dunno... I'm immediately skeptical of any new thing where the manufacturer uses the term "game changer" in their product promos to describe their product.

Has this been tested on different types of suspension designs? VPP? High Pivot? DW-Link?

We test our product on the following bikes: Commencal Meta 29, Trek Session 2019, Kona Process 29" 2019, Nukeproof Mega 29 2020, transition sentinel 29 2020, Santacruz Nomad 29. Very different kind of bike and suspension design, same response: Ochain helps during riding. This is wy we decided to use the term "game changer". We think that our approch will change the design process for the bike in the future.

I'm not convinced, but I am curious... Would be interested in a more thorough explanation of the mechanism and a review.

we can't show you how is made inside. But MTB Vital plans to perform a series of tests with Ochain.Stay tuned!

Here's a World Cup level sample of some riding with the Ochain: Loris Revelli (@lorikid27)

I tried something similar myself that I made, for free. I replaced 8th gear with a cassette spacer, so the chain just engaged nothing so had no effect on the suspension in that gear.

It made zero noticeable difference, but I think my bike (Nicolai G1) doesn't really suffer from kickback. Maybe it would be of some value to a single pivot system?

For sure if you have a suspension with hight pedal kickback Ochain works harder.

How’s this compare to moving the freewheel to the crank, such as HxR, but combining it with a coaster style...

I've had the possibilities to try both of them. Totally different feelings ! Ochain feels smooth as everything is working as his top possibilities on the rear of your bike. HxR is similar in giving less pedal kickback but the feeling of the chain running all the time is not good for me.. more than three time i had to stop my riding because of little sprigs in my derailleur..

Ochain is completely different. We reduce or remove the pedal kick back and also eliminate other more complex interaction from suspension and trasmission more difficult to explain here.

It is not dificult to explain!! This is your own infomercial!!! We are in hehre to see how it works and if it would fit us or not!!

Ok, you are right. I try to explain: during testing we noticed that the cranks under impact want to rotate in the same direction as pedaling, due to the greater load given by the pedal in the forward position.
In this case you have to add an extra speed to the chain and the result is pedal kickback phenomena. It depends on riding style but we have seen that all our riders have experienced the same behavior.

there is another phenomenon related to the motions of the bike in the xy plane that adds extra speed to the chain, I am preparing a video to show it. Stay tuned on our instagram page.

A freewheel in the crank moves the wrong way. Pedal kickback puts force in the same direction as pedaling does... so you'd need to turn the ratchet around and then you couldn't pedal at all!

Aren't some suspension systems designed with pedal kickback in mind and actually use it as part of the suspension action / curve?

Good question! Thin is why we can remove or REDUCED the pedal kickback. In some conditions is good to have some reactions from suspension in order to have a more reactive bike (for example when you pump the bike)

Can we get clarification on the mechanics? It looks like the elastomers only engage in one direction (kickback) but do not engage in the other (pedaling) direction? So there should be no lag or mush while pedaling and should be locked in as fast as your hub can engage.

Pedaling and kickback are the same direction. The opposite direction is the freewheel direction.

Oh right, duh. I should've realized that.

According to the PR, "All the degrees from the freewheel are available and engagement results in a hard steel-on-steel feel."

Paging Ochain now for additional insight.

Cesar Rojo already has a patent granted on a similar design...https://patents.google.com/patent/ES2670470B1

Also interesting!

Mushy pedaling anyone? Another solution looking for a problem.

You have to try it! When I rode for the first time the first prototype I decided to start this adventure. It works! And your bike will never be the same again!!!

This is an interesting idea, but it would be horrible with a low engagement hub. Imagine you're in your 42T cog with a 32T chainring and a 18POE hub. If you ratchet on a climb, you have 26° of slop at the cranks before you have engagement. With a 12° Ochain, suddenly it's 38° before you have firm engagement.

Switch that to a Hydra hub, and you start with <1° of slop and end up at ~13°.

I've actually thought about doing something similar before, but my thought was to aim for a much lower rotation (like their 6° version) and use an elastomer stiff enough that you fully compress it at ~200 in-lbf (at the cranks). That way, it would only fully compress during hard pedaling or big hits, and it would smooth out your power transfer a bit when you're mashing on the pedals. You would still lose some efficiency, but you would also lose traction while climbing less often.

With Ochain the efficiency is 100%. Yes, there is a different engagement sensation, but we believe that it is not very appreciable and that the benefits are greater!

The statement "efficiency is 100%" is a bit misleading. Sure, you may not have measurable energy loss through your device, but that doesn't mean that a rider will put as much power to the rear wheel with your device as they would without it. It's kind of like walking up stairs with springs on your feet (or replacing your chain with a stiff elastic band).

That said, depending on the stiffness of your elastomer and the amount of travel that it has, I see this as being a reasonable trade-off on the climbs and strictly positive on the descents.

when you pedal with Ochain the springs is completely compressed during the whole 360 ​​°. The elastomer works to give a fluid engagement but the elastomer travel is ridiculous.

I like the bike simple, so I think that low POE hub would serve this purpose the same way.

The difference with a low engagement hub is that it doesn't hold itself 'open'. While coasting, you could have 20° of crank free play before it engages, or you could have 1°.

How does this compare to a low engagement hub?

By the looks of it, it has a sprung centre to (partially) isolate the hub from the crank to achieve the stated goal of reducing kickback, but it can't change the engagement behaviour of the hub. Sometimes it might engage more quickly due to the position of the spider, but equally sometimes it might engage more slowly.