Will more companies be shutting down in the next 12-24 months?

metadave
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11/12/2024 9:06pm

With GG gone, what companies currently manufacture in the US other than Frameworks and Allied? Is Alchemy still a thing?

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earleb
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11/12/2024 11:13pm
1llumA wrote:
Most major brands have a Canadian warehouse/branch but not all of them get stuff shipped directly from Asia to Canada and instead go through the USA...

Most major brands have a Canadian warehouse/branch but not all of them get stuff shipped directly from Asia to Canada and instead go through the USA before getting to us so we will likely be impacted indirectly by Trump Tariffs. 

Santa Cruz (bikes for the canadian market are assembled in SC,CA) and Shimano (everything goes through Irvine first) are two that I know could be affected.

In Canada we have a program of duty drawbacks. If you import product to them export it you can claim back your initial duty paid on import. 

A quick google says US has a similar program. 

 

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1llumA
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11/13/2024 4:18am
metadave wrote:

With GG gone, what companies currently manufacture in the US other than Frameworks and Allied? Is Alchemy still a thing?

AFAIK only the Ti Bikes are welded in the USA for Alchemy, the carbon bikes are made in Taiwan. In terms of batch production, the others would be Reeb and Foes that are made in the USA.

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cstone28
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11/13/2024 6:18am
1llumA wrote:
Most major brands have a Canadian warehouse/branch but not all of them get stuff shipped directly from Asia to Canada and instead go through the USA...

Most major brands have a Canadian warehouse/branch but not all of them get stuff shipped directly from Asia to Canada and instead go through the USA before getting to us so we will likely be impacted indirectly by Trump Tariffs. 

Santa Cruz (bikes for the canadian market are assembled in SC,CA) and Shimano (everything goes through Irvine first) are two that I know could be affected.

This could be of benefit to Canadian sales. If SC imports components into the US (lower tariffs than complete bikes) and then exports complete bikes to Canada they could apply for Substantial Transformation, Country of Orgin. If successful the complete bike would become made in the US and Canada / US trade agreements would apply. 

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Simcik
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11/13/2024 6:21am Edited Date/Time 11/13/2024 6:23am
earleb wrote:
In Canada we have a program of duty drawbacks. If you import product to them export it you can claim back your initial duty paid on...

In Canada we have a program of duty drawbacks. If you import product to them export it you can claim back your initial duty paid on import. 

A quick google says US has a similar program. 

 

Reeb, Chumba, Dean, Foes, Moots, Litespeed, Lynskey and a bunch of Ti brands and smaller guys like Stinner, Oddity, Black Sheep and Sycip. Up in Canada you have Devinci.

There are a few on the road side doing carbon such as Parlee. 

There is a good number of brands doing US assembly of bikes. 

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jeff.brines
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11/13/2024 7:06am

Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump won", I feel there is a very strong chance the tariff thing is all bark and no bite. He might have floated the idea to get elected, because it sounds good to a certain audience (trying to be nice here), but when push comes to shove, he knows tariffs are likely to be inflationary (or at least people around him do) and that'll prohibit him from actually evoking these policies, especially in the near term. 

Put differently, if I were to bet, I'd wager we don't see tariffs at all in 2025, if we do they'll be in 2026 and they'll be a whimper of what he proposed during his campaign. 

If I were Cxx at a company, I'd be paying close attention to this, and I'd have a plan, but I wouldn't be acting on anything just yet. 

10
11/13/2024 7:15am
Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump...

Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump won", I feel there is a very strong chance the tariff thing is all bark and no bite. He might have floated the idea to get elected, because it sounds good to a certain audience (trying to be nice here), but when push comes to shove, he knows tariffs are likely to be inflationary (or at least people around him do) and that'll prohibit him from actually evoking these policies, especially in the near term. 

Put differently, if I were to bet, I'd wager we don't see tariffs at all in 2025, if we do they'll be in 2026 and they'll be a whimper of what he proposed during his campaign. 

If I were Cxx at a company, I'd be paying close attention to this, and I'd have a plan, but I wouldn't be acting on anything just yet. 

Exactly... There is something I noticed during Trump's first term, it seems like he speaks first,  thinks later. It comes across like a salesperson who feels like a moment to contemplate is a bad thing.. Sometimes you gotta take a breath, compose the thoughts and then say it.. Someone close to him should be able to explain the downside of blanket tariffs...

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dolface
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11/13/2024 1:20pm
Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump...

Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump won", I feel there is a very strong chance the tariff thing is all bark and no bite. He might have floated the idea to get elected, because it sounds good to a certain audience (trying to be nice here), but when push comes to shove, he knows tariffs are likely to be inflationary (or at least people around him do) and that'll prohibit him from actually evoking these policies, especially in the near term. 

Put differently, if I were to bet, I'd wager we don't see tariffs at all in 2025, if we do they'll be in 2026 and they'll be a whimper of what he proposed during his campaign. 

If I were Cxx at a company, I'd be paying close attention to this, and I'd have a plan, but I wouldn't be acting on anything just yet. 

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act anyone?

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TEAMROBOT
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11/13/2024 7:33pm
dolface wrote:

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act anyone?

God I love economics. Was on the edge of my seat wondering what Ben Stein would say next. Maybe he'll talk about the gold standard and managed float in currency valuation!

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FullSend
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11/14/2024 8:24am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2024 2:55am
PisgahGnar wrote:
There have  been some INSANE sales at the local Specialized dealer here in WNC. My understanding is when the shops got bought by a private owner...

There have  been some INSANE sales at the local Specialized dealer here in WNC. My understanding is when the shops got bought by a private owner back from Specialized corporate ownership, the warehouses were chock full of bikes and they just need to move them. 

There are reports that there were (Still may be? ) a lot of bikes sitting in Taiwan waiting to come over.. One advantage to the company...

There are reports that there were (Still may be? ) a lot of bikes sitting in Taiwan waiting to come over.. One advantage to the company stores, they can frontload the shops with inventory that a regular LBS might pass on..

PisgahGnar wrote:

We're talking Stumpy 15's full Ohlins for 35% off. Brand new stuff that they just need to move asap. It was kind of bizarre to see. 

I was honestly expecting to see the new Stumpjumper models to come down in price roughly 30% within the first 12 months in real world pricing. The Stumpy 15 models were insanely overpriced at launch and combined with the absolutely oversaturated market, the price correction just sort-of brings them back in line with what people would actually pay for them.

For what it's worth, a friend of mine owns a small chain of bike shops that carries Specialized, among other brands. He's located in a city with one of the highest average income figures in Germany and Specialized has historically always been his strongest-selling brand. People really seem to like their bikes and e-bikes. That being said, he recently told me that so far, since launch, he sold exactly two Stumpy 15. These just don't seem to fly off the shelves like the previous Stumpy Evo and Stumpy Evo Alloy did.

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jeff.brines
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11/14/2024 8:29am
FullSend wrote:
I was honestly expecting to see the new Stumpjumper models to come down in price roughly 30% within the first 12 months in real world pricing...

I was honestly expecting to see the new Stumpjumper models to come down in price roughly 30% within the first 12 months in real world pricing. The Stumpy 15 models were insanely overpriced at launch and combined with the absolutely oversaturated market, the price correction just sort-of brings them back in line with what people would actually pay for them.

For what it's worth, a friend of mine owns a small chain of bike shops that carries Specialized, among other brands. He's located in a city with one of the highest average income figures in Germany and Specialized has historically always been his strongest-selling brand. People really seem to like their bikes and e-bikes. That being said, he recently told me that so far, since launch, he sold exactly two Stumpy 15. These just don't seem to fly off the shelves like the previous Stumpy Evo and Stumpy Evo Alloy did.

Be fun to try and aggregate what other shop owners are seeing. My guess is this is to be expected across the board. Softening consumer demand in addition to a new crop of bikes that really aren't materially better than the prior generation bikes isn't a good combination. Reminds me a lot more of what we're seeing in powersports than the bike industry of yesteryear.

8
11/14/2024 8:43am
Be fun to try and aggregate what other shop owners are seeing. My guess is this is to be expected across the board. Softening consumer demand...

Be fun to try and aggregate what other shop owners are seeing. My guess is this is to be expected across the board. Softening consumer demand in addition to a new crop of bikes that really aren't materially better than the prior generation bikes isn't a good combination. Reminds me a lot more of what we're seeing in powersports than the bike industry of yesteryear.

With the improvements becoming smaller between generations, I wonder if we start to see a little bigger gap before the next generation comes out.. Especially with slower sales meaning the manufacturers need more time to move product.. Pretty much every review on the Stumpy 15 said "It's good, but don't feel like you are missing much over the previous Stumpy if you don't decide to get the new one"

9
11/14/2024 1:39pm
Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump...

Speculative point to make today, but an important one. With CPI coming in slightly hotter than expected, and inflation being one of the biggest reasons "Trump won", I feel there is a very strong chance the tariff thing is all bark and no bite. He might have floated the idea to get elected, because it sounds good to a certain audience (trying to be nice here), but when push comes to shove, he knows tariffs are likely to be inflationary (or at least people around him do) and that'll prohibit him from actually evoking these policies, especially in the near term. 

Put differently, if I were to bet, I'd wager we don't see tariffs at all in 2025, if we do they'll be in 2026 and they'll be a whimper of what he proposed during his campaign. 

If I were Cxx at a company, I'd be paying close attention to this, and I'd have a plan, but I wouldn't be acting on anything just yet. 

I have to deal with USA tariff often (finished metal). You "Yanks" don't bother to read your own media. To busy making snide comments at each other.

"The Trump administration imposed nearly $80 billion worth of new taxes on Americans by levying tariffs on thousands of products valued at approximately $380 billion in 2018 and 2019, amounting to one of the largest tax increases in decades.

The Biden administration has kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, and in May 2024, announced tariff hikes on an additional $18 billion of Chinese goods, including semiconductors and electric vehicles, for an additional tax increase of $3.6 billion."

Source:https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/tariffs/

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FerrousBueller
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11/14/2024 2:01pm

I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some incredible quality stuff at dollar discount prices. I imagine these tariffs will put a swift end to all that.

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Whattheheel
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11/14/2024 2:22pm

I just got a pretty rad set of mini pliers from Temu that surprised the hell out of me with the quality.  How long they last is another story but it was like $5 for like 10 different mini pliers?  I’ll bite. 

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Karabuka
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11/14/2024 10:56pm
I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some...

I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some incredible quality stuff at dollar discount prices. I imagine these tariffs will put a swift end to all that.

Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care about IP at all.. It should be also noted that a lot of stuff we buy in our shops is also made in the same country but this time with a middleman. On the otherhand not everyone in the west is rich enough to just walk into any store any just buy everything needed. Also about temu and aliexpress, they mostly sell the same stuff but temu runs really agressive marketing and same stuff there might cost more.

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FerrousBueller
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11/15/2024 3:59am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2024 4:02am
I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some...

I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some incredible quality stuff at dollar discount prices. I imagine these tariffs will put a swift end to all that.

Karabuka wrote:
Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care...

Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care about IP at all.. It should be also noted that a lot of stuff we buy in our shops is also made in the same country but this time with a middleman. On the otherhand not everyone in the west is rich enough to just walk into any store any just buy everything needed. Also about temu and aliexpress, they mostly sell the same stuff but temu runs really agressive marketing and same stuff there might cost more.

All valid points. You're also usually not getting much of a warranty or customer service. But yeah you're cutting out one or multiple middle men and marketing costs. As you noted, a ton of western brand stuff is made in China anyways. And hilariously, even if you buy USA made goods you may now also be supporting a dictatorship. 

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Primoz
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11/15/2024 4:18am

The higher price is what gives you the warranty, you can get the item immediately, there's someone you can yell at when it doesn't work other than a nondescript Chinese Web store that really doesn't care about your problems and someone went through the trouble of trying out the quality of the supply (is the item somewhat good or really shitty). 

There's tons of aliexpress products that can be thrown in the bin immediately after unpacking them. You would take that product back to the store if you bought it physically and that store would make sure they had functioning products on their shelves. Not valve caps and valve cores with nonfunctioning threads that mean the product can't be used for what it was bought for. 

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FerrousBueller
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11/15/2024 5:57am Edited Date/Time 11/15/2024 5:58am
Primoz wrote:
The higher price is what gives you the warranty, you can get the item immediately, there's someone you can yell at when it doesn't work other...

The higher price is what gives you the warranty, you can get the item immediately, there's someone you can yell at when it doesn't work other than a nondescript Chinese Web store that really doesn't care about your problems and someone went through the trouble of trying out the quality of the supply (is the item somewhat good or really shitty). 

There's tons of aliexpress products that can be thrown in the bin immediately after unpacking them. You would take that product back to the store if you bought it physically and that store would make sure they had functioning products on their shelves. Not valve caps and valve cores with nonfunctioning threads that mean the product can't be used for what it was bought for. 

Definitely loads of crap out there. You need to know what brands and products are actually good, but isn't that true for western brands too?

At this point I've purchased over 100 different products from AliExpress, and with a bit of research at the Chinertown forums, I'd say 75% were excellent, 23% good/okay, and 2% unusable/garbage. On the whole I've probably saved thousands of dollars there, especially in small parts like valves/valve cores etc.

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HexonJuan
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11/15/2024 6:58am
I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some...

I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some incredible quality stuff at dollar discount prices. I imagine these tariffs will put a swift end to all that.

Karabuka wrote:
Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care...

Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care about IP at all.. It should be also noted that a lot of stuff we buy in our shops is also made in the same country but this time with a middleman. On the otherhand not everyone in the west is rich enough to just walk into any store any just buy everything needed. Also about temu and aliexpress, they mostly sell the same stuff but temu runs really agressive marketing and same stuff there might cost more.

All valid points. You're also usually not getting much of a warranty or customer service. But yeah you're cutting out one or multiple middle men and...

All valid points. You're also usually not getting much of a warranty or customer service. But yeah you're cutting out one or multiple middle men and marketing costs. As you noted, a ton of western brand stuff is made in China anyways. And hilariously, even if you buy USA made goods you may now also be supporting a dictatorship. 

CHORT!

Rick26
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., QC CA
11/15/2024 7:10am
There are reports that there were (Still may be? ) a lot of bikes sitting in Taiwan waiting to come over.. One advantage to the company...

There are reports that there were (Still may be? ) a lot of bikes sitting in Taiwan waiting to come over.. One advantage to the company stores, they can frontload the shops with inventory that a regular LBS might pass on..

PisgahGnar wrote:

We're talking Stumpy 15's full Ohlins for 35% off. Brand new stuff that they just need to move asap. It was kind of bizarre to see. 

FullSend wrote:
I was honestly expecting to see the new Stumpjumper models to come down in price roughly 30% within the first 12 months in real world pricing...

I was honestly expecting to see the new Stumpjumper models to come down in price roughly 30% within the first 12 months in real world pricing. The Stumpy 15 models were insanely overpriced at launch and combined with the absolutely oversaturated market, the price correction just sort-of brings them back in line with what people would actually pay for them.

For what it's worth, a friend of mine owns a small chain of bike shops that carries Specialized, among other brands. He's located in a city with one of the highest average income figures in Germany and Specialized has historically always been his strongest-selling brand. People really seem to like their bikes and e-bikes. That being said, he recently told me that so far, since launch, he sold exactly two Stumpy 15. These just don't seem to fly off the shelves like the previous Stumpy Evo and Stumpy Evo Alloy did.

Interesting feedback from that shop, but at this point is there any 24-25 bikes priced at full MSRP that are selling very well ?

Discounts are getting so deep on some bikes that the used market is getting completely trashed which is in return devaluating new bikes with consumers getting much less for their existing bike, driving the market down again.

I'm wondering if this winter will be harder than last year for some companies as we're moving further away from that fresh covid money intake. Will the road back to regular MSRP and limited sales take more time than forecasted ?

 

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HexonJuan
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11/15/2024 7:17am

Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's like how Pro Bike Kit was back 10+ years ago. Working at a shop then, it wasn't necessarily uncommon for us to order a group for a customer off there as they had em in stock and were often cheaper than our wholesale pricing through the big 3 wholesalers at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if some shops are using Ali to fulfill orders the same way. The internet age really stole value from all retail sectors. We can bemoan China's human rights record, but they're far from the only nation where goods are made that have the same issue. How much of the clothing we wear to ride comes from Pakistan, Bangladesh, or India? I think China has such a big bullseye because of the amount of manufacturing the nation can do, from garbage to cutting edge, is beyond what any other nation can.

 

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pamtbr
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11/15/2024 7:31am
I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some...

I know it's taboo, but I buy, use, and enjoy a lot of parts from AliExpress. If you know what you're doing you can get some incredible quality stuff at dollar discount prices. I imagine these tariffs will put a swift end to all that.

Karabuka wrote:
Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care...

Their price/performance is unbeatable in the western world if you dont mind you are buying from a dictatorship which shamelessly abuse their workforce and dont care about IP at all.. It should be also noted that a lot of stuff we buy in our shops is also made in the same country but this time with a middleman. On the otherhand not everyone in the west is rich enough to just walk into any store any just buy everything needed. Also about temu and aliexpress, they mostly sell the same stuff but temu runs really agressive marketing and same stuff there might cost more.

All valid points. You're also usually not getting much of a warranty or customer service. But yeah you're cutting out one or multiple middle men and...

All valid points. You're also usually not getting much of a warranty or customer service. But yeah you're cutting out one or multiple middle men and marketing costs. As you noted, a ton of western brand stuff is made in China anyways. And hilariously, even if you buy USA made goods you may now also be supporting a dictatorship. 

Two big things help foreign sellers and thereby end customers. First, we have the de minimis value in the US set at $800/person/day. So if you buy goods that are shipping from an international seller and they are below $800 then you don't owe any duties. If, as a company, you go source goods in a foreign country and import them, it will most certainly exceed the de minimis value and you'll owe duties. The de minimis threshold has been talked about a lot in the bike industry due to cheap ebikes on Amazon. 

(Side note, a recent ruling is making Amazon take responsibility as a distributor, and not their preferred status as a marketplace, for things like consumer protection laws. I'm guessing they will get to Temu/Alibaba sooner than later too.)

Second, there is the UPU that is setup to provide preferential mail rates to developing countries and despite some changes around 2020, China was still considered a developing country. Some things changed around that time that allowed the USPS to charge more but there are plenty of subsidies from China to support exporting cheap trinkets and widgets. 

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FerrousBueller
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11/15/2024 8:16am
HexonJuan wrote:
Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's...

Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's like how Pro Bike Kit was back 10+ years ago. Working at a shop then, it wasn't necessarily uncommon for us to order a group for a customer off there as they had em in stock and were often cheaper than our wholesale pricing through the big 3 wholesalers at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if some shops are using Ali to fulfill orders the same way. The internet age really stole value from all retail sectors. We can bemoan China's human rights record, but they're far from the only nation where goods are made that have the same issue. How much of the clothing we wear to ride comes from Pakistan, Bangladesh, or India? I think China has such a big bullseye because of the amount of manufacturing the nation can do, from garbage to cutting edge, is beyond what any other nation can.

 

Shimano group stuff is almost all genuine on AliX (from reputable sellers) but from what I understand, most SRAM stuff is not

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Primoz
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11/15/2024 10:04pm Edited Date/Time 11/15/2024 10:15pm
Primoz wrote:
The higher price is what gives you the warranty, you can get the item immediately, there's someone you can yell at when it doesn't work other...

The higher price is what gives you the warranty, you can get the item immediately, there's someone you can yell at when it doesn't work other than a nondescript Chinese Web store that really doesn't care about your problems and someone went through the trouble of trying out the quality of the supply (is the item somewhat good or really shitty). 

There's tons of aliexpress products that can be thrown in the bin immediately after unpacking them. You would take that product back to the store if you bought it physically and that store would make sure they had functioning products on their shelves. Not valve caps and valve cores with nonfunctioning threads that mean the product can't be used for what it was bought for. 

Definitely loads of crap out there. You need to know what brands and products are actually good, but isn't that true for western brands too?At this...

Definitely loads of crap out there. You need to know what brands and products are actually good, but isn't that true for western brands too?

At this point I've purchased over 100 different products from AliExpress, and with a bit of research at the Chinertown forums, I'd say 75% were excellent, 23% good/okay, and 2% unusable/garbage. On the whole I've probably saved thousands of dollars there, especially in small parts like valves/valve cores etc.

Don't get me wrong, I've spend at least hundreds of euros on aliexpress. I've bought OrangePis, two multiNIC router boxes to run pfsense (and will likely buy a barebones NAS system in the near future), a soldering iron, cables, chargers, phone cases, I'm using an aliexpress headset punch and press, shimano chainring tool, I have long/deep ratchet sockets from there, bought tubeless tape, tubeless valves and valve cores, etc. I've bought headlamps (mtb and hiking) both on aliexpress and on deal extreme. I'm running perfectly fine photochromic riding glasses. But more or less invariably any clothes I bough years ago (riding jerseys and the like) were utter garbage. 

It's still less likely that you'll buy genuinely shitty product at home than on Ali.

We do have a saying in Slovenia, "I am not rich enough to buy cheap stuff."

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boozed
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11/16/2024 3:34am
HexonJuan wrote:
Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's...

Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's like how Pro Bike Kit was back 10+ years ago. Working at a shop then, it wasn't necessarily uncommon for us to order a group for a customer off there as they had em in stock and were often cheaper than our wholesale pricing through the big 3 wholesalers at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if some shops are using Ali to fulfill orders the same way. The internet age really stole value from all retail sectors. We can bemoan China's human rights record, but they're far from the only nation where goods are made that have the same issue. How much of the clothing we wear to ride comes from Pakistan, Bangladesh, or India? I think China has such a big bullseye because of the amount of manufacturing the nation can do, from garbage to cutting edge, is beyond what any other nation can.

 

China has a big freedom-lovin' bullseye on it because it's a threat.  Not just for its manufacturing might, but also for its geopolitical influence and military power.  A former Australian prime minister keeps telling us that China just wants to be left alone, but it certainly doesn't look like it from the outside.  I think the west is having second thoughts about the ramifications of its addiction to Chinese manufacturing.

@Primoz: We have a very similar saying: "The poor man pays twice".  I think the Americans say "buy once cry once".  And incidentally I have a similar principle when it comes to cars; if I couldn't afford to buy it new, I can't afford to own it used, no matter the price.

2
Dogboy
Posts
38
Joined
4/12/2011
Location
Chapel Hill, NC US
11/16/2024 4:52am
HexonJuan wrote:
Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's...

Funny bit about Ali is how you can get genuine Shimano & SRAM components for dirt cheap as well as 'other' components. In that aspect it's like how Pro Bike Kit was back 10+ years ago. Working at a shop then, it wasn't necessarily uncommon for us to order a group for a customer off there as they had em in stock and were often cheaper than our wholesale pricing through the big 3 wholesalers at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if some shops are using Ali to fulfill orders the same way. The internet age really stole value from all retail sectors. We can bemoan China's human rights record, but they're far from the only nation where goods are made that have the same issue. How much of the clothing we wear to ride comes from Pakistan, Bangladesh, or India? I think China has such a big bullseye because of the amount of manufacturing the nation can do, from garbage to cutting edge, is beyond what any other nation can.

 

boozed wrote:
China has a big freedom-lovin' bullseye on it because it's a threat.  Not just for its manufacturing might, but also for its geopolitical influence and military...

China has a big freedom-lovin' bullseye on it because it's a threat.  Not just for its manufacturing might, but also for its geopolitical influence and military power.  A former Australian prime minister keeps telling us that China just wants to be left alone, but it certainly doesn't look like it from the outside.  I think the west is having second thoughts about the ramifications of its addiction to Chinese manufacturing.

@Primoz: We have a very similar saying: "The poor man pays twice".  I think the Americans say "buy once cry once".  And incidentally I have a similar principle when it comes to cars; if I couldn't afford to buy it new, I can't afford to own it used, no matter the price.

At the shop I work at we say "buy nice or buy twice". It's really not an elitist thing (none of us would be considered rich), just an acknowledgement that in many cases buying the well made, more expensive product is cheaper in the long run.

8
11/16/2024 7:04am
Dogboy wrote:
At the shop I work at we say "buy nice or buy twice". It's really not an elitist thing (none of us would be considered rich)...

At the shop I work at we say "buy nice or buy twice". It's really not an elitist thing (none of us would be considered rich), just an acknowledgement that in many cases buying the well made, more expensive product is cheaper in the long run.

I love when the response is "But, I can buy 3 of the cheaper (insert item here) for that price.." Do you want 3 more failures on the trail?  Do you want to damage parts on your bike when the cheap option doesn't work? I'm not saying you have to buy the most expensive option, usually I would steer people away from that since stepping down a level or 2 will get you pretty damn close on performance with a little weight added, but spending a few extra dollars will almost always save time, money, and frustration down the road. 

Price is what you pay, value is what you get.

5
airwreck
Posts
68
Joined
4/7/2015
Location
HI US
11/18/2024 1:58pm
Simcik wrote:
Reeb, Chumba, Dean, Foes, Moots, Litespeed, Lynskey and a bunch of Ti brands and smaller guys like Stinner, Oddity, Black Sheep and Sycip. Up in Canada...

Reeb, Chumba, Dean, Foes, Moots, Litespeed, Lynskey and a bunch of Ti brands and smaller guys like Stinner, Oddity, Black Sheep and Sycip. Up in Canada you have Devinci.

There are a few on the road side doing carbon such as Parlee. 

There is a good number of brands doing US assembly of bikes. 

Always surprised that Ventana doesn't get more recognition.

3
11/18/2024 4:23pm
Simcik wrote:
Reeb, Chumba, Dean, Foes, Moots, Litespeed, Lynskey and a bunch of Ti brands and smaller guys like Stinner, Oddity, Black Sheep and Sycip. Up in Canada...

Reeb, Chumba, Dean, Foes, Moots, Litespeed, Lynskey and a bunch of Ti brands and smaller guys like Stinner, Oddity, Black Sheep and Sycip. Up in Canada you have Devinci.

There are a few on the road side doing carbon such as Parlee. 

There is a good number of brands doing US assembly of bikes. 

airwreck wrote:

Always surprised that Ventana doesn't get more recognition.

Honestly, I thought they'd just quietly gone out of business. Are they really still producing & selling bikes? 

2

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