What Would Make You Buy a New Bike?

Great post. I think we can all concede the pace of improvement has vastly slowed. One great reflection of this was Jordan Williams winning on the "old" demo. Heck, I'm still riding a Specialized Enduro that is 3 (??) years old and I don't feel like the frame is at all dated or a step behind anything else out there. 

What I'd love to see is more focus on durability. The problem with this is it goes against much of the business model and current incentive structure. Plus, its hard to test on the "gear review" side (you need to put hundreds of thousands of vert on a bike to really test for this which would break every gear review model in exitance; not enough bandwidth). 

As I have less and less time in my life to wrench, I'd kill for a bike that doesn't require new bearings after a wet/muddy race, stays creak free all season, doesn't need constant suspension service to feel "good" and the drivetrain shifts (and stays as quiet) despite putting thousands of miles on it. 

I'd pay significantly more for this type of bike, I just know it won't happen because it'd come at more cost & more weight without more "immediate" performance. 

As far as a service plan, I feel the bike industry is an outlier in which everything is considered "warranty" within a year. That is your service plan, in a way. That said, "a better ownership experience" is exactly what I'm aiming for. 

There is no reason a mountain bike should feel clapped after 500,000 vertical feet of descending (but mine does)...

It’s a good idea. 
they already (almost) killed the independent shops (at least for sales of bikes) and started buying their own dealers back ( spesh and trek) might as well turn the whole thing into dirt bikes:

buy a ktm at a ktm shop -and the ktm shop works on the ktm really well -with ktm parts and ktm (and WP of course) certified service -and everyone wins. Oh dang do  I hate doing the top end on my dirt bikes. In my apartment. Makes the fork oil changes feel almost fun tho. I think bulletman is on target. Even spesh is allready joining with moto shops for (e)motor services…… if they want to push questionable ebike reliability and chassis down our throat, I’d think this may be the only way. 
 

I could see fox and Rockshox doing this easily and very soon just to move more higher end suspension products direct to consumer because they have the front side(online sales) and back side ;online service ticket system) of the whole customer experience already to go. 
 

if fox and Rockshox jump, don’t you think specialized and canyon and trek will have to follow suit? 

If there's a pie that represents my mtb ownership experience, maintenance convenience and costs are a small piece, sense of performance advantage afforded by new tech or FOMO from not yet having a new tech is even smaller, the whole conspicuous consumption thing doesn't add or subtract too much (careful use of social media, changing the subject like saying "Hey how's your day going?" when someone in the real world says "nice bike"). The biggest pieces of the mtb experience pie are access to good trails, access to close trails, and other riders. When I'm riding, my bike is good. When I'm driving 100 miles round trip to the trailhead, less good. When I'm at the dirt jumps or the fashion show trailhead in Santa Cruz and it feels like I'm in the pinkbike comments, mtb sucks a little bit. When I'm at the bmx track and a 7 year old steps up to warble out the national anthem, riding is awesome. The bike's fine. I'll buy a new bike for slalom when one that was designed more recently than 2013 enters the market

I love my Intense Tracer 279 and recently added a transmission to it (which would have been the only reason to buy a new one for me if it didn't have UDH and transmission compatibility). I would 100% get a new one if it had pinion. Gearboxes are clearly better in almost every way. Hanging a rats nest of cassettes, electronic derailleurs and chains off of the rear wheel has got to go. Shimano is behind the SRAM at the moment and I'd love to see pinion get wider adoption or maybe shimano license or buy Pinion to get wider adoption. 

Geometry and kinematics are really good across most bikes that have come out in the last few years.  Suspension is really good, and you don't need a new bike for that.  Really, the only thing that would be making me want to sell one of my 2 bikes would be availability of an ebike that has:

* motor/gearbox system

* 700-750w battery (500 + 200 range extender would be great too)

* LCD top tube display showing battery percentage (no silly bar displays leaving you guessing if you're at 40% or 59% charge)

* no headset cable routing

* 3+ year warranty that's transferable to second owner

* shop/service center to deal with the inevitable motor warranties within 30 min of my house

one thing i think should be added here - how many companies guarantee availability of replacement parts for a certain amount of time after purchasing a bike?  the only company i can think is Nicolai, who guarantee supply of spare parts for 10 years. 

yup, that's about it for me too.

We talking pedal bikes?

if I ever have to buy a pedal bike again I'll be looking at the absolute bargain basement model...aluminum frame NX rhythm fork whatever...pedal bikes are solved for everyone on the planet save for you guys here...

it's all ebike, and really mostly just battery stuff. Integrated gearbox would be sweet, I'd go for that sooner than later, but battery capacity still the number one thing for me, and we're already so dialed. I'm riding a Repeater on heavy trails (heavier than I should be, probably, at my age and skills) and it's really hard to find fault with it. Again: just some guy out riding. No racing no social aspect no . I am still trapped by Shimano's five jail bars too, wish they'd go ride a few times and realize how gnarly staring at those 3 bars can be, but that's just gravy really (reeeeeal badman here with a spare battery down in the car anyways cmon). 

but yeah, short answer: there is no appeal to pure pedal-powered mountain biking going forward. maybe those alien bodies let off a giant EMP bomb, frying all electronics worldwide, then I'll consider looking at purely mechanical contraptions again. 

seriously what's with the pedal bikes 

Something I have come to find working in the bike world is that most people don't want to be sold on tech and spec changes, they want to be sold on the experience they imagine they'll have. On top of that, if you can think of a bike company, they likely don't make a bad bike.

With the quality of bikes increasing, stuff outside of the bike itself is what sells. Santa Cruz doing their own Reserve wheels with the warranty they carry and lifetime bearing replacement is a pretty good reason why they're a top dog.

A truly waterproof headset would be nice.

I live in a dry area and my headset still gets creaky and rusty way too soon. Obviously I wouldn’t buy a new bike because of only that  

I've been thinking about a new bike lately, a Starling Murmur or Twist. My two Knollys are great- modern geo, good suspension, really no complaints. I just look at all those pivots and dread the idea of replacing so many bearings.

When I was still working in shops I wouldn't have minded, but these days I think that the simplicity of a single pivot could be worth the compromises...

So to your point, we've gotten to a place where everything is really good so ease of service and reliability might be what a lot of us go for.

A list of various features that would have me thinking about a new bike…

-ebike motor with combined gearbox with absolutely no dangly tensioners or other fiddly bits, just a true single speed style set up.

-brakes that actually worked, I’m talking absolute consistency under every condition, the brake feels the same every time I pull the lever. No more thin, flimsy rotors that are always warped and discolored. I personally consider nearly every current mountain bike brake to be at best, one step above a liability.

-proportional chain stays, and none of this “2mm longer per size” business. Chain stays under 440mm should be a thing of the past on any size of actual mountain bike.

-bearing durability, I don’t want to overhaul my headset every two months and deal with notchy pivot bearings and stuck pivot axles.

-give me full length steer tubes! The cost of the fork is rolled into the price of the bike, so I want my whole fork and my bars to be where like them, not where a product manager decided them to be.

yeah I actually agree with this a lot! When people ask me about what bike brands I like, I'm almost completely thinking in terms of reliability, ease of service, availability of parts and aftermarket support. On paper there is a plethora of bikes which should ride great, but a vast majority of them are complete garbage to work on or, and/or if not properly taken care of will rapidly wear out too. And this happens from day one if every component isn't properly aligned, greased and torqued. 

What I would love to see is bikes evolving every year by brands committing to a platform for each model and refining it each year instead of a complete overhaul every 3. The overall rate of improvement would be the same but it would make it way easier for people to keep everything running as good as new. Currently when products are released with any bugs in the design, it can take a year for them to show up at all and at least another to even acknowledge the problem so at that a stage the new version is too far along and has a whole host of new problems baked in so the cycle starts all over. Its also now not worth dealing with the "old" products because they are now obsolete and need to focus on the new models! 

I see this with suspension obviously - we recently had a great period where forks like the pike made some big gains around 2014  then ran up until a couple of years ago. There was never a major platform overhaul so parts could easily be changed back and forth between generations which made them very easy to maintain. Combined with some great aftermarket upgrades becoming available it was very easy to make a 2014 Pike or 2015 36 ride extremely well in 2020 or 2021 (compared to what was available new at the time)! Since then the new forks are 100% better in every way which makes it worthwhile to buy the latest models, but it does feel like there is less compatibility year to year now. So there is less incentive to invest in what you have now if it might not be serviceable in a few years? I mean the flip side to that is you should be MORE motivated to keep it running mint but for some reason people don't get that logic.......

This extends back to parts and tools - I have piles of 35mm air springs that would fit Pikes, Lyriks and Yaris of different travels so it is super easy to still support them! But now those parts are much more specific (and expensive) so way harder to hold a good range of them all.

Same goes for tools - I love nice tools and happy to pay for them but when you need $1000 worth to work on one specific model, and then another $1000 worth to work on the new version 3 years later its pretty ridiculous, so all these things combine by making it much more of a challenge to keep things running perfectly beyond their original product life. 

Just give me good parts, not top of the line parts, but good parts that won't break and leave me without a bike for half the season, at a reasonable price. It's great places have warranty but I don't want to have to use it, I just want to ride, wash my bike, throw chain lube on and take it out next ride. New bikes with performance elite suspension shouldn't cost over $5000 Cad. And let me choose the paint color for a few bucks extra, that would be cool.

Honestly, now its more about value for me, more so the deore/slx/xt and rhythm/z1/float x Models - You only get tiny gains by going any higher spec its just not worth it.(those gains dont even make the overal biking experience better)

Most bikes will end up with adjustable headset, progression and Mulletable anyway.

De-emphasis on suspension adjustability that comes with inherent compromises in performance. Instead, focus on speccing easily reshimable architectures. Then frame manufacturers partner with tuners to serve damper tunes to your application as part of the a complete bike package. 

#1 I want a silent-operating FS mtn bike!!!!!!!!!!!!

#2 I want it to be an emtb. I got my eyes on the TQ HPR motor. I want 3+ hrs worth of battery assist on low/med. My needs are simply just wanting a bit of speed to generate more air flow to keep me cooled, while maintaining moderate intensity (~145 bpm) and a bit of assistance to help me through slogs (headwinds, draggy terrain). IMO, it's pointless to speed on scenic singletrack, but I'm happy to cut time I spend on mind-numbingly boring fireroads. For the times I have to share a road with cars, I appreciate the speed boost to cut down the speed differential (for higher sense of safety), and the assistance to carry the burden of flat resistant tires/wheels through dirt/debris further off the side of the road.

#3 Frame features:

- No big downtube battery cut-out. I like the designs that slide out, like the Whyte emtbs. I don't want batteries falling out on a ride.

- Prefer a fully triangulated swingarm, since it feels more premium than dropout pivots, IMO.

- I want max saddle slammability. The only thing that should prevent the saddle from being lowered further is the risk that the rear wheel buzzes the back on full travel use. 380mm uninterrupted seat tube, to perhaps enable a 200mm dropper for my 5' 7" body.

- CS length proportional to WB. For all around riding, my sweet spot is 435mm CS with 1230mm WB, or 440mm CS with 1250mm WB.

- Relatively high BB (355ish) and stack (650ish for med).

- Mullet or full 29. Prefer something not convertible. I don't want a mullet with plus size tires; I plan on running 2.4 width tires almost religiously.

- Not short travel. I'll take whatever travel happens to feel like a good balance. I'll leave it to the mfg to surprise me. 135 rear, 160 front? Convince me. Dual-crown fork? I'm open to it, as long as you're not taking away from the dropper and wide range cassette. I want one bike that does it all for mtn biking, not a racer or speed demon. I just care for being able to hit up all the riding opportunities out there with minimal urge to optimize the experience with a diff piece of equipment. I don't want to put any other restrictions on the geo, as I know fork length and HTA are key in getting the WB length in a certain range, while keeping the reach a good length for each size.

- Bike needs to be able to take a hit/crash. I also want the bike to be more open about showing damage from such (not a fan of thermoset carbon/cfrp). I don't want to feel an urge to save the bike in a bail, in order to soften its impact with whatever. I value my own body FAR FAR more and want to just let go of the bike without thinking of the consequences of bike taking a tumble.

I want the bike finished off with Shimano CUES/Deore (LinkGlide) level of kit. No weight weenie nor expensive stuff. Cheap, light, strong - pick two? I pick cheap and strong. If there's any reinforced/heavy-duty tougher/longer-lasting option, I want it. I want upkeep costs to be minimal. Mainstream level stuff, including self-service suspension. Crank length ~155mm. No SRAM and no e13, please. I got burned by them and feel they're a ripoff compared to reliable and trusty brands. I'm a fan of the strength of steel/chromoly over alum and carbon.

Ultimately, I just want to ride quality trails without needing to think about the bike, getting the most bang for the buck. I worry more about the bike breaking down than the bike being 60 lbs. I want a bike that has enough "hit points" (fatigue life) to hold up to 5+ years of my daily amateurish attempts at riding advanced stuff, including opportune hucks to flat when I'm seeking a bit of excitement to break up the dullness. A revision of the Marin Alpine Trail E1 might be the thing that gets me to buy. A Canfield One mullet emtb might get my eyes to go wide. RAAW emtb? Hopefully, the cost is under $5000. I'd be willing to concede extra for a silent coasting hub and other silencing tricks like a STFU bike.

I dare to say that I don't care about looks as much as functionality. I'd be excited if they could make full-coverage fenders and rack look good (see Simplon Stomp Pmax), and had consideration for security/locks designed in, to make the bike more lifestyle-friendly. Would love to stop at a shop with the bike, and not worry about losing a wheel to an opportunist, or worse. Elevated chainstays are fine with me, but I'm worried about their longevity than their looks.

If there's any single take-away from this wall of text, it's that I demand tuning of vehicle acoustics (Noise, Vibration, Harshness, or whatever you want to call it). If the noise/sound can't be eliminated, at least make it sound good. A satisfying thud when the bike lands... I'm willing to pay the trade-offs (weight, expense)! Creaks, clangs, rattles, damper chirps, the RC-car-like whine of emtb motors... ugh, these detract from the experience. Much harder to circumvent this stuff than it is to circumvent racey faff.

Honestly, my Evil Calling is just getting long in the tooth.  I would like a more modern STA for climbing and perhaps 29" wheels.  Otherwise I don't have much desire to update my 5 year old bike.

Another pain point.

Prices for a new complete bike are absurd.  I (personally) simply don't want to drop 7000€ to get a complete bike with GX or slx drivetrain.

As a consumer, its much more cost effective for me to buy a frame from RAAW, privateer, or Crossworx, and build it up from parts purchased at discount from an online parts retailer.

If you end of life your bike, publish the specs to make new parts, at least the simple ones that can be turned, milled or bodged together. There will always be someone with the machinery at home that will make it work for a 6-pack.

As for buying a new bike, a year ago I was adamant I'd be riding my 2019 Bird Aeris AM9 for the 2024 season as well. Improving my positioning on skis has made me think about geometries and posture which made me realize my XL was too big. So I went for a Large (510 mm vs. 525 mm reach) Aeris 9 which also comes with a double whammy of being a 160/160 bike with the option of running a 180 mm fork and a 180 mm link (which is on the menu to try out). Hungry eyes and all. As has been the case previously (the AM9 replaced a 2015 Giant Reign) a change in geometry, fit & co was the factor. In the previous case I wanted a 29er and a steeper seat tube (I already upgraded to Eagle on the Reign) and now I wanted a smaller bike with the added factor of trying out more travel. New fangled tech is a non-factor for me, even though I went all-in on the spec for the second time in a row and bouth the most clickers I could. But then the spec will likely stay the same for quite a while.

For Trail/Enduro and DH Bikes I don't really see any reason to upgrade unless your bike is damaged to the point that replacing suspension and drivetrain components isn't too far off a new frame or complete bike.  The reality is geometry and suspension components have mostly settled in the last couple years, especially for the average rider.  I think you need to be either an extreme puzzler or a pro level rider to even notice some of the marginal gains we are making now.

As far as ebikes go though I think that market is changing rapidly and you can get significantly better bikes now than say 3-4 years ago.  I have a 2021 Rocky Mountain Powerplay and it is awesome and the new one looks even better but after seeing the Pinion E-drive system that is absolutely the future.  Especially since they are having to beef up conventional drivetrains for ebikes anyways.  As soon as that system is available with a belt drive I think I will jump on that.

*EDIT*, I guess I didn't answer the original question, something that would absolutely increase my odd's of buying a new bike would be included service for 2-3 years afterward.  If you bought a bike and didn't have to worry about brake bleeds, suspension rebuilds and pivot replacements that is a game changer for someone who rides 3+ days a week in the summer.  Even if they capped it at 1 complete service per year that would be a huge value.  

One other thing that I kind of already touched on:  while its great that some companies are offering better warranties (WAO, Reserve, etc.), these need to be more common and be transferable to at least the second owner.  The fact is, the vast majority of consumers are not riding hard enough to actually break wheels/frames/etc.  The warranty rate on these things has to be something like 1/1,000 or lower.  So the cost for a company to offer a good warranty that's transferable has got to be like single digit percentages, if not lower.

I'm a lot more likely to upgrade a bike or major component if I know I can sell my old thing for a good value, and I'd be a lot more likely to be able to get good value if the warranty is transferable.  As it is, for things with good warranties, it makes the most sense to try and sell locally since you can promise to help people out with a warranty claim if needed, but then you're really cutting down number of potential buyers.

Just want to point out that when I bought my first mtb from trek it came with a one year parts warranty that included the labor to replace the parts.  I would think it would be feasible to restart this type of program and enhance it.  Especially given their ability to negotiate with oem suppliers and the very high price of new mtbs.  
 

I’m currently riding around a 3800 (4200 today) dollar bike with half the gears because I don’t have the 30 bucks in my budget to replace a bent derailleur hanger for a couple pay checks after shredding three tires in a row.  I don’t expect tires/grips/pads/other high wear parts to be covered but it would be nice if big brands did more to keep you riding in a reasonable window considering the investment you make in them.

Why does the warranty have to be transferrable? Why not just... be? What makes the original buyer so much more holy than any other person owning the bike at a later date to deserve a full warranty when others don't deserve it? I've never heard of something like this in the electronics industry (phones, PCs, etc.), we know it's not an issue with cars, Jeff mentioned it's not a thing with snowmobiles and motorbikes and so on, what makes bikes so special?

No idea what would get me to buy a new bike right now.  I just bought two this year😂.   I went from the current gen Ransom to a Spire and it’s changed my riding a lot again.  I felt the same way when I got the ransom going from a 27.5 reign.  I figure in a few years there may something that will really make me look again.   The other was a “gravel” bike which is my quick local trail bike. 

I’m generally still very happy with my Nomad 3 that I got in late 2014. The geometry is still in the ballpark of a decent longer travel trail bike (it’s a bit shorter but the head angle is 65 degrees) and the durability has been amazing. That being said, compatibility with newer standards (boost spacing and UDH primarily) and newer creature comforts such as downtube storage combined with some good sales at the moment have me considering spending on a new bike. The main thing preventing me from committing to buying right now are the lack of demo opportunities post pandemic in the area I live. I tend to keep my bikes for a long period of time, so a good demo experience is important to me. 

I have a hunch Dak is right and I’m 6’2” so if the next gen Spire has significantly taller stack that would probably do it. 

Electronics does this constantly. Try warranting any part of PC's hardware, the first thing there going to want is proof of purchase. I can't even imagine the 2nd owner of smart phone expects any kind of guarantee or warranty unless the purchased that separately. The original purchaser bared the initial price. They should get some premium service.  

Maybe if we're will to accept mini motocross e-bike weight we can build a higher level of durability in. It's been said before; do you want it to be light, cheap, or durable? Pick two. I think we're getting pretty darn close on durable these days.These aren't pieces of industrial equipment. Down time for repairs doesn't cost almost (almost) any one lost productivity. We sort of have already been there and done that in terms durability. Super heavy, over built bikes, that were completely home servicable. It didn't work out that well. Such a huge percentage of mountain bike owners don't really ride that many miles. Building a bike and components to support someone who puts a zillion hard miles or extra rough terrain isn't helping the rest of us.

If you want buttery extra sensitive suspension you are in the minority. I get very few people coming in my shop asking how do they get there new bike feel back.

I think this is key.  If you buy an $5-8k toy and you want to upgrade in 2 years but it’s hard to justify because you take a huge hit.  If the warranty was transferred it would help used bike sales and then in turn help new bike sales.

I think the reason you don’t see this with cars, dirt bikes and other toys is they don’t deprecate as much.  It really sucks that a 2 year old bike has to be sold for about 30% of original value. 

If my bike would break hardly. Otherwise there is no chance i am changing it. But of course it is something to do with the fact that i am on a very tight budget at the moment. I already decided to hire paper writer https://domypaper.com/ for my college assignments and make my life a little easier with that. As a student, i don't have much time to work and we all now that part-time jobs are not paid well.

I'm living under the impression that with the receipt from the original owner I could warranty the second hand bought component. I think I actually did that in the past to be honest.

What price the original purchaser bared is completely irrelevant. If I bought the item second hand for MORE than what the original purchaser paid, wouldn't your logic make me entitled to BETTER service then? If the product is covered for X years, what does it matter who bought it and when did they sell it on? You claim X years, so stand behind your product for said X years. If the second hand owner bought it new and rode it the way he did for it to break, it would just break sooner in the warranty period, not later.

Buy high and sell higher. I like this new form economics you referring to. Short of cast iron cookware there's not a lot of things people prefer used. While plenty of new products have lots of issues initially the presumption is that I will benefit from this new unblemished thing.

How would the company what you paid for the item? All they know is who bought something first time. Also, why do they care the value of the product? Are they going to take it in on trade? They already got there money.

Certified pre-owned. I gotta get the the o-chain off before I bring down to the dealer, they void the warranty if they see that on there 

There's plenty of post market insurers. The problem is you'd have to start registering your bike, and paying sales tax .