Vital MTB Forum Hot Seat: Joe McEwan, Starling Cycles Founder

Edited Date/Time 2/4/2025 4:25am

Starling Cycles founder Joe McEwan is known for speaking his mind, so here's your chance to get answers to your most pressing questions - from the general state of the bike industry to suspension layout and anything in between.

Joe will man the hot seat for real-time interactions on February 5 during UK working hours (and then some, possibly). Let the fun begin!

StarlingBikesForumHotSeatA.jpg?VersionId=i
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TEAMROBOT
Posts
794
Joined
9/2/2009
Location
Los Angeles, CA US
2/4/2025 8:39am

Love it! Thanks for getting on the hot seat, Ewan. Some questions:

I've always heard brake jack is terrible on single pivots. True/false/thoughts.

Favorite local trail spot in/near Bristol?

Favorite local curry in Bristol?

Favorite local Kebab in Bristol?

What sort of shock tunes play best on single pivots? More/less HSC compression in the shimstack, progressive or regressive rebound, etc?

How much flex is too much flex?

How do you balance front triangle stiffness with rear triangle stiffness? Gun to your head, would you rather have a stiffer front triangle or rear?

Why would you say Stewart Lee is the best comedian the UK has ever produced?

You opened the doors at Starling in 2015 and Brexit happened a year later. Has Brexit impacted your business?

4
xy9ine
Posts
17
Joined
5/1/2019
Location
ZW
2/4/2025 9:18am

(pedant alert) - single pivots don't have brake jack (ok, apart from the klein mantra maybe); they can be more pro-squat, however. 

also - spent some time on a murmur - they're neat bikes!. 

1
2/4/2025 10:43am

Did you experiment with other suspension designs? What made you decide on the design you're using? Have you ever tried to design a unique suspension design of your own?

Can you talk about your process when developing/dialing in geometry in relation to use case for a bike? Do you start with one (or more) unmovable detai(s)l that you find significant for that use case and then design around it? Or maybe do you start by riding someone else's bike and making improvements from their starting point?

How does the perfect bike for you personally differ from the perfect bike for the market?

2
2/5/2025 12:12am

I've always heard brake jack is terrible on single pivots. True/false/thoughts.

I'll come back to Brake Jack, but in my experience it's no worse on our bikes.  Just learn to brake in the right places, this is the most important skill for being a good rider!

 

4
2/5/2025 12:14am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2025 12:15am

Favourite local trail spot in/near Bristol?

The amazing trail just outside the city in Leigh Woods and Ashton Court and few other little bits of woods.  Perfect for my BLE singlespeed bike  But built with XC tyres to make the riding a bit more exciting.

Otherwise, we're super lucky to have amazing riding 40 minutes away in South Wales, Forest of Dean, Triscombe and the Mendips...

2/5/2025 12:16am

Favorite local curry in Bristol?

Favorite local Kebab in Bristol?

My house!!  I'm a pretty handy cook, so don;t really like spending money to eat out when I can do it as well at home!!

2/5/2025 12:19am

What sort of shock tunes play best on single pivots? More/less HSC compression in the shimstack, progressive or regressive rebound, etc?

We tend to find a standard Medium/Medium tune is a great starting spot.  But faster riders might do better with a slightly lighter compression and rebound tune.

But most importantly, since the leverage ratio is linear and constant, they are much less sensitive that other designs.  And you can tune to your personal reference rather than requiring a specific behaviour for a certain suspension design.

 

2/5/2025 12:22am

How much flex is too much flex?

How do you balance front triangle stiffness with rear triangle stiffness? Gun to your head, would you rather have a stiffer front triangle or rear?

We've actually been doing a bit of lab (improvised) testing that show that Starling bikes are no less stiff than others.  The 'compliance' that is talked about (even by myself) is more of a feeling.  But since steel compliance is talked about, people equate the 'feeling' to lack of stiffness.

There's a video coming soon...

 

2/5/2025 12:22am

Why would you say Stewart Lee is the best comedian the UK has ever produced?

Yep, he my favourite Lefty Guardian reader.  Hilarious!!

2/5/2025 12:25am

You opened the doors at Starling in 2015 and Brexit happened a year later. Has Brexit impacted your business?

Yes, I think Brexit has had a huge impact on our ability to sell into the EU.  In reality there's no extra costs, just a little bit more complication with having to pay VAT separately.  But it has added an element of unknown and reduced people's confidence in buying from the UK.  The only current solution is to have a dedicated outlet based in the EU.  Something we'd like to make happen...

 

1
2/5/2025 12:26am
TEAMROBOT wrote:
Love it! Thanks for getting on the hot seat, Ewan. Some questions:I've always heard brake jack is terrible on single pivots. True/false/thoughts.Favorite local trail spot in/near...

Love it! Thanks for getting on the hot seat, Ewan. Some questions:

I've always heard brake jack is terrible on single pivots. True/false/thoughts.

Favorite local trail spot in/near Bristol?

Favorite local curry in Bristol?

Favorite local Kebab in Bristol?

What sort of shock tunes play best on single pivots? More/less HSC compression in the shimstack, progressive or regressive rebound, etc?

How much flex is too much flex?

How do you balance front triangle stiffness with rear triangle stiffness? Gun to your head, would you rather have a stiffer front triangle or rear?

Why would you say Stewart Lee is the best comedian the UK has ever produced?

You opened the doors at Starling in 2015 and Brexit happened a year later. Has Brexit impacted your business?

That was a lot of questions in one post!!  I've answered them all now, but please one questions per post please.  I'm a simple man and can't hold too much information in my head at once!!

2/5/2025 12:42am
Did you experiment with other suspension designs? What made you decide on the design you're using? Have you ever tried to design a unique suspension design...

Did you experiment with other suspension designs? What made you decide on the design you're using? Have you ever tried to design a unique suspension design of your own?

Can you talk about your process when developing/dialing in geometry in relation to use case for a bike? Do you start with one (or more) unmovable detai(s)l that you find significant for that use case and then design around it? Or maybe do you start by riding someone else's bike and making improvements from their starting point?

How does the perfect bike for you personally differ from the perfect bike for the market?

Before I started making bikes, I had a variety of different designs, but had always preferred single pivots.  They just felt more lively and engaging to ride.  And even thought I was doing a bit of racing, I felt this was most important.  It's never the bike that is slowing me down, so a bike that I felt most confident on was always going to make me the fastest.

I think I nailed geometry pretty early on via quite a bit of testing of different variations.  But pretty much for the whole of Starling's time, geometry has remained unchanged.  We've played a bit with swingarm lengths, but that's about it.

I get lots of people sending me spreadsheets of geometry that they think they need.  But a bike isn't a list of numbers, it's a sum of it's parts.  A 64.3° head angle does not make a great bike, but how all the various numbers work together is   The fact we give static and not dynamic geometry is a strong indication of how little it matters.

I'm actually coming to the conclusion it's more about the rider and what they are used to and prefer.  For example, people with a history of BMX ride better on smaller frames with shorter chainstays.  Even if it's the wrong size according to conventional wisdom, they will have more fun and ride better.

Unfortunately we are in a time of statistic rather than feeling.  Put two different top end bike 20 yards away, they look pretty similar don't they!  They will ride pretty similar too.  Just make sure you brakes work, your suspension is set up properly and you have tread on your tyres.  

But everyone think they are special and needs the tiny gains of various bits of nonsense technology.  It's just not true.  Even at the highest level, the bike matters much less than confidence.  If a rider has confidence in their bike this is way more important than some technological detail.  The technology is just there to make them feel like they have some kind of edge over their competitors.  If technology did matter then surely the results would be much more dominated by bike brand or even suspension design, but this just isn't the case...

But I dop like talking about bike technology!!  But at least I'm honest that I know it won't turn me into a great rider!

8
bikelurker
Posts
74
Joined
3/23/2023
Location
Bilbao, Vizcaya ES
2/5/2025 12:56am

Hi Joe! Is common to hear in this forum that 27.5 is indeed dead and that, going forward, suspension companies will even stop production of 27.5 lowers. As the owner of a small company, that still caters to that niche, even if its with "a small batch, once a year" rare species Swoop frameset, How do you see things going forward? I think the UK mtb scene always have been very specific, probably influenced by the climate and the terrain available and still looks like there is a strong group of riders and bike brands trying to keep the small front wheel alive.

 

Still related to 27.5 front wheels, as a bike designer and engineer, what is your opinion about "demuletting" a, for example, 160/160mm bike, keeping the 29" fork and swapping the airshaft to 180mm in order to bring the shape of the bike back? Are the forces acting on the frame less because of the small wheel or is the longer fork as potentially harmfull no matter the wheel size?

2/5/2025 1:05am
Did you experiment with other suspension designs? What made you decide on the design you're using? Have you ever tried to design a unique suspension design...

Did you experiment with other suspension designs? What made you decide on the design you're using? Have you ever tried to design a unique suspension design of your own?

Can you talk about your process when developing/dialing in geometry in relation to use case for a bike? Do you start with one (or more) unmovable detai(s)l that you find significant for that use case and then design around it? Or maybe do you start by riding someone else's bike and making improvements from their starting point?

How does the perfect bike for you personally differ from the perfect bike for the market?

Before I started making bikes, I had a variety of different designs, but had always preferred single pivots.  They just felt more lively and engaging to...

Before I started making bikes, I had a variety of different designs, but had always preferred single pivots.  They just felt more lively and engaging to ride.  And even thought I was doing a bit of racing, I felt this was most important.  It's never the bike that is slowing me down, so a bike that I felt most confident on was always going to make me the fastest.

I think I nailed geometry pretty early on via quite a bit of testing of different variations.  But pretty much for the whole of Starling's time, geometry has remained unchanged.  We've played a bit with swingarm lengths, but that's about it.

I get lots of people sending me spreadsheets of geometry that they think they need.  But a bike isn't a list of numbers, it's a sum of it's parts.  A 64.3° head angle does not make a great bike, but how all the various numbers work together is   The fact we give static and not dynamic geometry is a strong indication of how little it matters.

I'm actually coming to the conclusion it's more about the rider and what they are used to and prefer.  For example, people with a history of BMX ride better on smaller frames with shorter chainstays.  Even if it's the wrong size according to conventional wisdom, they will have more fun and ride better.

Unfortunately we are in a time of statistic rather than feeling.  Put two different top end bike 20 yards away, they look pretty similar don't they!  They will ride pretty similar too.  Just make sure you brakes work, your suspension is set up properly and you have tread on your tyres.  

But everyone think they are special and needs the tiny gains of various bits of nonsense technology.  It's just not true.  Even at the highest level, the bike matters much less than confidence.  If a rider has confidence in their bike this is way more important than some technological detail.  The technology is just there to make them feel like they have some kind of edge over their competitors.  If technology did matter then surely the results would be much more dominated by bike brand or even suspension design, but this just isn't the case...

But I dop like talking about bike technology!!  But at least I'm honest that I know it won't turn me into a great rider!

Super interesting answer! I appreciate you taking the time to think through it and type it up!

I'm also of the belief that a person doesn't ride the geometry chart. I'm on a bike that "I wouldn't like because of [a list of geometry numbers]" but the bike rips. My local shop thought I'd love it and they were right. Could I have been happy on bikes with more "progressive geometry"? Probably. Could I have been happy on a different bike category altogether? Also probably...I'm just happy to be on a bike!

Either way I'm on a bike that rides well, it feels like it immediately compliments how I want to ride (compared to other bikes I've hopped on) even though the geometry was a big departure for me, looking at the bike gets me hyped to ride it, and the build kit is pretty good for the price.

Underbiking a little and getting something that won't work against me riding well on the trails I ride every day was a great decision.

I'll eventually be in the market for a new hardtail frame. Your Roost looks super awesome and satisfies the "hardtail must be mullet-friendly" needs of my short-legged life. I look forward to eventually spending my money on one of your frames/bikes!

2/5/2025 1:43am Edited Date/Time 2/5/2025 1:44am

Love your work, Joe. The answer above on geometry is a fresh take.


You’ve increased gussets and frame strength over the iterations, do you think you’ve reached peak frame strength? And do you see much return rate on failures?


Also, when’s the next BLE release? I hovered over buy for too long last time…

2/5/2025 2:02am

Just wanted to say the beady little eye is one of the cooler and more interesting bikes to hit the market of late and I hope y’all keep it in the lineup so I can get one when I have the budget available.  Just a warning that won’t be for sometime cause I am  POOR these days.  But thanks for putting something out that’s a little different.

Atkisa
Posts
47
Joined
1/20/2016
Location
GB
2/5/2025 2:37am

Is brake jack not an unavoidable result of having a heavy spinning mass at the end of the swingarm come to a total or partial halt? That torque has to go somewhere and without having a massive flywheel it'll have to be absorbed by the shock.

I've got a Murmur as it happens and my feeling is that brake jack isn't a problem, not because it doesn't happen, but because the bike is so predictable through the stroke (no weird leverage changes from links etc.) meaning brake jack isn't unsettling the characteristics. I feel like this is also part of the reason people love coil shocks/ linear bikes so much.

I had a VPP bike before this and it always felt like it was doing weird stuff through compressions and under braking.

I don't have a question, this bike is great, good work

 

2/5/2025 2:48am
bikelurker wrote:
Hi Joe! Is common to hear in this forum that 27.5 is indeed dead and that, going forward, suspension companies will even stop production of 27.5...

Hi Joe! Is common to hear in this forum that 27.5 is indeed dead and that, going forward, suspension companies will even stop production of 27.5 lowers. As the owner of a small company, that still caters to that niche, even if its with "a small batch, once a year" rare species Swoop frameset, How do you see things going forward? I think the UK mtb scene always have been very specific, probably influenced by the climate and the terrain available and still looks like there is a strong group of riders and bike brands trying to keep the small front wheel alive.

 

Still related to 27.5 front wheels, as a bike designer and engineer, what is your opinion about "demuletting" a, for example, 160/160mm bike, keeping the 29" fork and swapping the airshaft to 180mm in order to bring the shape of the bike back? Are the forces acting on the frame less because of the small wheel or is the longer fork as potentially harmfull no matter the wheel size?

I think for riders who still value manoeuvrability over stability, the smaller wheel size makes sense.  26" even...  

I don't think it's a UK specific thing, just it's easy for us to offer, so why not!  For the bigger brands they need some kind of narrative to justify the bigger batches they have to commit to.

Personally I'm not that keen on people putting the wrong sized wheel into frames.  There is roughly a 20mm difference between the axle heigh of a 27.5" wheel and 29".  Dropping the front or rear has a about a 1° impact on geometry, but more importantly a 6mm (for front wheel) or 12mm (rear) on BB height.  This is significant.  If you put a 27.5" wheel and fork, the difference is about 40mm.

People do it and say it's great.  But I think they just feel a change and justify to themselves its better.  Longer term feedback from these people tends to be less positive.

In terms of different forces from different wheelsizes, it pretty negligible.  Starling bikes are plenty strong enough to handle most things...

 

1
2/5/2025 2:52am
Love your work, Joe. The answer above on geometry is a fresh take.You’ve increased gussets and frame strength over the iterations, do you think you’ve reached...

Love your work, Joe. The answer above on geometry is a fresh take.


You’ve increased gussets and frame strength over the iterations, do you think you’ve reached peak frame strength? And do you see much return rate on failures?


Also, when’s the next BLE release? I hovered over buy for too long last time…

Thanks Twisted Nipple (ouch)!

The frames are super strong.  We've had one return of a V3 frame, this was an American rider who was a big strong high level racer and hucked everything; if you watched his videos you winced.  He had a crash where he bent his fork steerer, and the same time he flared the head tube a little. There was also a small bend to top tube, so we decided to retire the bike.  Otherwise nothing!!  And the bikes aren't being ridden gently!

BLE batch #2 is coming soon, keep your eye on social media and sign up to the mailing list...

 

2
2/5/2025 2:55am
Just wanted to say the beady little eye is one of the cooler and more interesting bikes to hit the market of late and I hope...

Just wanted to say the beady little eye is one of the cooler and more interesting bikes to hit the market of late and I hope y’all keep it in the lineup so I can get one when I have the budget available.  Just a warning that won’t be for sometime cause I am  POOR these days.  But thanks for putting something out that’s a little different.

BLE is the most fun bike ever.  I ride mine more than anything and it just reminds me of why biking is fun!!

We will keep selling them until there no more demand...  But we are just limited by the batch sizes we can do.

We know our bikes are expensive, but manufacturing here in the UK is expensive.  And I promise we're not getting rich from doing this!!  I think this is one of the key things people should think about when buying a new bike, do you want to make some fat cat buy another yacht or help keep those who add energy to the industry supported.

2
2/5/2025 3:07am
Atkisa wrote:
Is brake jack not an unavoidable result of having a heavy spinning mass at the end of the swingarm come to a total or partial halt...

Is brake jack not an unavoidable result of having a heavy spinning mass at the end of the swingarm come to a total or partial halt? That torque has to go somewhere and without having a massive flywheel it'll have to be absorbed by the shock.

I've got a Murmur as it happens and my feeling is that brake jack isn't a problem, not because it doesn't happen, but because the bike is so predictable through the stroke (no weird leverage changes from links etc.) meaning brake jack isn't unsettling the characteristics. I feel like this is also part of the reason people love coil shocks/ linear bikes so much.

I had a VPP bike before this and it always felt like it was doing weird stuff through compressions and under braking.

I don't have a question, this bike is great, good work

 

Brake Jack is more of a static issue, sorry I'll start that again...  Brake Jack is defined by a static resolution of forces.  But as you say it's a much more dynamic issue than that.

I have a real problem with the 'psuedo' science that proliferates in biking.  The real behaviours are much more complicated; moving riders, rough terrain, dynamic hits, bendy bikes, etc...  There's a kind of over simplification to try and explain things (mostly by marketing).  Using simple static 2D diagrams with unresolved forces.  A bit like a bullshit 3D graphics used by skincare products, "and here's the science bit".  The bike industry isn't actually much better than this.

I'll be honest, there's a lot of behaviour I don't fully understand, even though I'm very qualified and able to do so.  It would just require far too much resource to understand correctly.  Interestingly there's a few journalist out there who do try to understand things properly (and I respect) and they are the one who mostly conclude it all makes bugger all difference.  Similarly, I try to design with those limitations, just with what I know to be correct.

No question, and no answer, just a little rant!!

 

1
kane
Posts
8
Joined
5/1/2024
Location
Iederwangen CH
2/5/2025 3:48am

Hi Joe,

I really like Starling's approach of producing simple, well engineered bikes that ride great and are built to last. One area that stands out is the design of the head tube gussets. Starling's have a gusset that is positioned away from the head tube connecting the frame tubes together whereas most other steel bikes on the market use gussets that are connected directly to the head tube. Could you explain how you arrived at this design, why it is effective at reducing stresses in the head tube area and whether or not you also use special tube profiles (like double zone butted). 

renest
Posts
3
Joined
10/20/2014
Location
AT
2/5/2025 4:00am

Hello Joe,
what is your take on the hot topic of gearboxes? Are you planning to make another gearbox bike? If yes, do you plan to integrate now a Pinion?
 

1
2/5/2025 5:33am
kane wrote:
Hi Joe,I really like Starling's approach of producing simple, well engineered bikes that ride great and are built to last. One area that stands out is...

Hi Joe,

I really like Starling's approach of producing simple, well engineered bikes that ride great and are built to last. One area that stands out is the design of the head tube gussets. Starling's have a gusset that is positioned away from the head tube connecting the frame tubes together whereas most other steel bikes on the market use gussets that are connected directly to the head tube. Could you explain how you arrived at this design, why it is effective at reducing stresses in the head tube area and whether or not you also use special tube profiles (like double zone butted). 

We did a video about this, let me know if it doesn't answer your questions.  Lots of other interesting stuff there too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYwcTwuCG8

2/5/2025 5:36am
renest wrote:
Hello Joe,what is your take on the hot topic of gearboxes? Are you planning to make another gearbox bike? If yes, do you plan to integrate...

Hello Joe,
what is your take on the hot topic of gearboxes? Are you planning to make another gearbox bike? If yes, do you plan to integrate now a Pinion?
 

We have built a few of our Spur bike using a Effigear gearbox.  It rides amazingly; the suspension (due to reduce un-sprung mass and no flappy chain is amazing).

But there is an amount of drag in the gearbox that means it doesn't lend itself to being a trail bike.  It's definitely more winch and plummet of lift assisted.  We do plan to do some more, but upping travel.  We just need the capacity to do this...

The Pinion system does look good these days.  I'm still not totally sold on the drive cog position, it has to run a tensioner on full suspension bikes. But we do intend to start looking into some designs.

 

3
2/5/2025 6:04am

Hi Joe,

I have played around with Linkage software, and, while I'm no expert, it looks like most of your bikes are pretty close to linear or even slightly regressive (correct me if I'm way off base). In light of that, I'm surprised that you seem to prefer coil shocks. Combining a typical coil shock with a suspension platform with no ramp up seems like a recipe for a wallowy ride. How do you combat that? Do you have customers that prefer more progression, and how to they find a happy setup? Cheers!

1
FullSend
Posts
349
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
DE
2/5/2025 6:07am

This is so cool, thanks for coming on, Joe! Love what you're doing with Starling, my next bike will most likely be a MegaTwist!

I don't actually have any technical questions, as you're doing a great job with your blog posts, answering them. Just wanted to drop in and say that I really like your work!

1
kane
Posts
8
Joined
5/1/2024
Location
Iederwangen CH
2/5/2025 6:08am
We did a video about this, let me know if it doesn't answer your questions.  Lots of other interesting stuff there too.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYwcTwuCG8

We did a video about this, let me know if it doesn't answer your questions.  Lots of other interesting stuff there too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPYwcTwuCG8

Thanks - great video.

1
2/5/2025 6:14am
Hi Joe,I have played around with Linkage software, and, while I'm no expert, it looks like most of your bikes are pretty close to linear or...

Hi Joe,

I have played around with Linkage software, and, while I'm no expert, it looks like most of your bikes are pretty close to linear or even slightly regressive (correct me if I'm way off base). In light of that, I'm surprised that you seem to prefer coil shocks. Combining a typical coil shock with a suspension platform with no ramp up seems like a recipe for a wallowy ride. How do you combat that? Do you have customers that prefer more progression, and how to they find a happy setup? Cheers!

Linear and coil works great, see here:

https://www.starlingcycles.com/why-single-pivot-steel-and-coil-is-the-best-setup/

I think the word progression has just become a bit of a marketing term now.  Bikes can ride great without being progressive.  None of our customer complain about this...

2
R20LJR
Posts
1
Joined
1/9/2025
Location
Goodrich GB
2/5/2025 6:14am

Is the King of Morzine your best South Wales customer and is his influencer contract in the post?

1

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