Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

TEAMROBOT
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5/13/2024 5:07pm

That's super helpful. Never heard this but that makes a ton of sense. Thanks dude!

1
ewebster
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5/13/2024 8:41pm
Shinook wrote:
So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet. on the boutique side, has anyone...

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and done a parking lot test on the mavens. 

I'm running 203 front/rear rotors (Formula Monolithic) with Galfer Standard pads. Stock levers. 150lb rider but quite aggressive. 

Overall I'm just going to say that the Cura 4s are pretty good. They bleed quite easily, although they are brand new brakes, so time will tell if the bleed gets harder. They have EXTREMELY good modulation, dare I say the best of any brake I have tried (Dominions are close/similar). The lever pull is middle-of-the-road: not the lightest but not the firmest, and not the shortest dead stroke but also not the longest. The biggest thing I note about them is that they do not have quite as much power as I would like. Just today on my ride I was really pushing my braking points late, and I ended up overshooting some corners while pulling with almost everything I could muster. I felt like if I had my Dominions or TRPs back that I could have made the corners that I overshot. I am going to try some different pads (either Formula Sintered or Galfer Pro compound), as well as a 220 front rotor. I will not come to a final conclusion until I try the new pads/rotor, but for now if I were to buy new brakes I would not go with the Formulas. If money were no object I would definitely be getting Kahas or Intends, but realistically I would get Dominions. That's not to say the Formulas are bad, it's just that for my riding style I do want more power. 

1
thresh
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5/13/2024 10:01pm Edited Date/Time 5/13/2024 10:02pm
Shinook wrote:
So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet. on the boutique side, has anyone...

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

ewebster wrote:
I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and...

I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and done a parking lot test on the mavens. 

I'm running 203 front/rear rotors (Formula Monolithic) with Galfer Standard pads. Stock levers. 150lb rider but quite aggressive. 

Overall I'm just going to say that the Cura 4s are pretty good. They bleed quite easily, although they are brand new brakes, so time will tell if the bleed gets harder. They have EXTREMELY good modulation, dare I say the best of any brake I have tried (Dominions are close/similar). The lever pull is middle-of-the-road: not the lightest but not the firmest, and not the shortest dead stroke but also not the longest. The biggest thing I note about them is that they do not have quite as much power as I would like. Just today on my ride I was really pushing my braking points late, and I ended up overshooting some corners while pulling with almost everything I could muster. I felt like if I had my Dominions or TRPs back that I could have made the corners that I overshot. I am going to try some different pads (either Formula Sintered or Galfer Pro compound), as well as a 220 front rotor. I will not come to a final conclusion until I try the new pads/rotor, but for now if I were to buy new brakes I would not go with the Formulas. If money were no object I would definitely be getting Kahas or Intends, but realistically I would get Dominions. That's not to say the Formulas are bad, it's just that for my riding style I do want more power. 

Stock Cura4 pads are not great. aliexpress Kingstop ones are much better.

1
Shinook
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5/14/2024 4:53am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2024 4:54am
ewebster wrote:
I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and...

I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and done a parking lot test on the mavens. 

I'm running 203 front/rear rotors (Formula Monolithic) with Galfer Standard pads. Stock levers. 150lb rider but quite aggressive. 

Overall I'm just going to say that the Cura 4s are pretty good. They bleed quite easily, although they are brand new brakes, so time will tell if the bleed gets harder. They have EXTREMELY good modulation, dare I say the best of any brake I have tried (Dominions are close/similar). The lever pull is middle-of-the-road: not the lightest but not the firmest, and not the shortest dead stroke but also not the longest. The biggest thing I note about them is that they do not have quite as much power as I would like. Just today on my ride I was really pushing my braking points late, and I ended up overshooting some corners while pulling with almost everything I could muster. I felt like if I had my Dominions or TRPs back that I could have made the corners that I overshot. I am going to try some different pads (either Formula Sintered or Galfer Pro compound), as well as a 220 front rotor. I will not come to a final conclusion until I try the new pads/rotor, but for now if I were to buy new brakes I would not go with the Formulas. If money were no object I would definitely be getting Kahas or Intends, but realistically I would get Dominions. That's not to say the Formulas are bad, it's just that for my riding style I do want more power. 

That's good feedback, thanks. 

I'd be curious what the FCS levers accomplish or if they make them more workable, it sounds like they improved leverage all around and may add more power, but the lack of power there is concerning. 

1
5/14/2024 5:52am
Shinook wrote:
So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet. on the boutique side, has anyone...

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

ewebster wrote:
I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and...

I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and done a parking lot test on the mavens. 

I'm running 203 front/rear rotors (Formula Monolithic) with Galfer Standard pads. Stock levers. 150lb rider but quite aggressive. 

Overall I'm just going to say that the Cura 4s are pretty good. They bleed quite easily, although they are brand new brakes, so time will tell if the bleed gets harder. They have EXTREMELY good modulation, dare I say the best of any brake I have tried (Dominions are close/similar). The lever pull is middle-of-the-road: not the lightest but not the firmest, and not the shortest dead stroke but also not the longest. The biggest thing I note about them is that they do not have quite as much power as I would like. Just today on my ride I was really pushing my braking points late, and I ended up overshooting some corners while pulling with almost everything I could muster. I felt like if I had my Dominions or TRPs back that I could have made the corners that I overshot. I am going to try some different pads (either Formula Sintered or Galfer Pro compound), as well as a 220 front rotor. I will not come to a final conclusion until I try the new pads/rotor, but for now if I were to buy new brakes I would not go with the Formulas. If money were no object I would definitely be getting Kahas or Intends, but realistically I would get Dominions. That's not to say the Formulas are bad, it's just that for my riding style I do want more power. 

I'd love to get your opinion on the Lewis brake performance as I think you'd be pleasantly surprised coming from those brakes. I certainly prefer mine over my DH-R Evos

1
3
5/14/2024 8:00am

Anyone happen to have info on has happened with TRP metallic pads going out of production? I asked them when more would be available and got this response:

 

"Unfortunately, we do not have an ETA at this time for a new metallic compound. We are working to make one as soon as possible."

 

1
5/14/2024 8:17am

Just got a follow up from TRP:

 

"Materials shortages so we have discontinued that metallic compound and are working on a new one."

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BenediktB
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5/14/2024 8:33am Edited Date/Time 5/14/2024 9:36am
Shinook wrote:
So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet. on the boutique side, has anyone...

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

ewebster wrote:
I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and...

I just got a set of Cura 4s for my new enduro build. For background, I've ridden Dominions, TRP DH-Rs and Quadiems, Shimano XT, Codes, and done a parking lot test on the mavens. 

I'm running 203 front/rear rotors (Formula Monolithic) with Galfer Standard pads. Stock levers. 150lb rider but quite aggressive. 

Overall I'm just going to say that the Cura 4s are pretty good. They bleed quite easily, although they are brand new brakes, so time will tell if the bleed gets harder. They have EXTREMELY good modulation, dare I say the best of any brake I have tried (Dominions are close/similar). The lever pull is middle-of-the-road: not the lightest but not the firmest, and not the shortest dead stroke but also not the longest. The biggest thing I note about them is that they do not have quite as much power as I would like. Just today on my ride I was really pushing my braking points late, and I ended up overshooting some corners while pulling with almost everything I could muster. I felt like if I had my Dominions or TRPs back that I could have made the corners that I overshot. I am going to try some different pads (either Formula Sintered or Galfer Pro compound), as well as a 220 front rotor. I will not come to a final conclusion until I try the new pads/rotor, but for now if I were to buy new brakes I would not go with the Formulas. If money were no object I would definitely be getting Kahas or Intends, but realistically I would get Dominions. That's not to say the Formulas are bad, it's just that for my riding style I do want more power. 

In my experience the Monolithic rotors tend to loose bite and power after aggressive riding pretty fast. They started of great but all of a sudden they lost all power.

I now have Galfer pro pads with Galfer wave rotors 223/203 and can't say I have tried more powerful brakes.

Would recommend to get new rotors as it did wonders for me.

2
Primoz
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5/14/2024 11:55am

Just got a follow up from TRP:

 

"Materials shortages so we have discontinued that metallic compound and are working on a new one."

Does it have anything to do with bans on copper in brake pads? 

1
NicoZesty96
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5/14/2024 3:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2024 3:12pm
sethimus wrote:

how would you rank all the high end brakes you tested and why?

Shinook wrote:
I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to...

I'll pre-empt the inevitable butthurt about the below by saying that all of these options are good. They are all powerful, all reasonably easy enough to work on, and all (mostly) consistent. I mainly say that because people adore Saints and I found them to be the weaker in almost every category compared to others, but still good. 

I'd also caveat that "power" is somewhat misunderstood IMO. Most people don't have the means to measure overall, total available power, rather they base it on how the brakes feel. A brake like the Maximas may have a ton of overall power, but the Mavens feel more powerful because the power comes on sooner as the brake ramps up. This will also be relative to your weight and how you want the levers to feel.

I posted something similar in another thread, but I'll go into more detail. For reference, I'm 220lbs on a ~33lb steel 29er.

Power: Maven >= Radic > Intend > Maxima > Hope T4 V4 > Dominion > MT7 > Saint - The Mavens have a very quick power deliver,y once the pads engage the difference between "I'm slowing down" and "I'm skidding" is miniscule. This can be dialed in with contact point adjust, but they apply power more progressively than any other brake I've tried. The Radics have a really similar feel with a lighter lever, but feel a bit more controlled and have less deadstroke, basically instant engagement, I ran these closer to the bar than any other brake. The Intends are very close to that feel, but with a much lighter feeling lever and overall better feel, although they lack contact adjust so you can't tweak them as easily. Both Maximas and T4 V4s have enormous power available, but it comes on later in the stroke and is harder to define in lever feel and requires a longer lever throw to obtain. They are the epitome of having a smooth, light, powerful brake that requires a longer lever stroke to get there. I love Dominions and I loved the MT7s, but the power comes on later especially with the latter. I didn't find Saints to be as powerful but they are good enough. 

Consistency: Basically all of the above were consistent with two exceptions. I have been able to fade Dominions on long, flowy descents. I've torched them more than a few times with no change in lever feel, but I've had them turn mushy a few times and that's not an issue I had with most of the others. On the Saints, I had the wandering bite point problems I had with every other Shimano brake, but only in cold and I think this is, in part, due to brake technique where two quick pulls of the lever causes it to change. Some don't have this problem, I did. The rest were very consistent, rarely changed lever feel, and I had no issues in hot/cold or with fade provided they were bled properly. The Mavens did exhibit some wandering bite point (BADLY) when they were new out of the box, but doing the piston massage procedure did away with it. 

Lever feel: (For me and what I'm after) Intend > Radic > Hope > Maxima > Dominion > MT7 > Saint > Maven - The Maven lever feel isn't as bad as people act like it is, but it is firm compared to the others. It's not that it is unusable or awful, just that the other options are smoother and require less force through the deadstroke (I'd argue the engaged force to power is better than some are acting with the Mavens though). I loved the feel of them overall, but the stiffer spring is off putting compared to others. The MT7s were very consistent and smooth, but power came on later than I liked, the first few rides on them I blew a few corners because I kept expecting them to grab faster coming from the Radics. The Hope and Maximas have a lot in common, it's a very light feeling lever even when the pads engage, but it can be somewhat vague if you aren't used to them compared to others, you don't get that 'wall' of sorts you do with other brakes, it is light all the way through and that can take some adjustment. The Radics have a super smooth lever but engage almost immediately with no deadstroke. The Intends are the best of the above, moderate deadstroke, even power delivery, smooth/light lever feel, easy to identify the brake point, and good ergonomics. My preference in this category is a quick power delivery, but lighter riders or those who want a longer lever throw might place Hope or Trickstuff higher.

Aesthetics: They are all nice except the Mavens. They are the ugliest thing on my bike at the moment and I'm dying to get them off. It's very off putting for an otherwise great brake. The Trickstuff, Hope, and Intends are all beautiful in their own unique ways. 

Cockpit: The Mavens suffer from the reservoir sitting too close to the bar. This means controls may not fit where you want because it interferes with the reservoir being so damn close. Otherwise you have a lot of positioning with the lever. The Dominion and MT7 share a lot of similarities in this regard as well, but aren't super notable otherwise, you have plenty of lateral movement across the bar to position them and your controls, although I prefer hinged levers. The Hopes have a super long lever blade that might interfere, but I found that they sat so far inboard it didn't interfere with my other controls. The Radics, Intends, and Maximas all have a lever brace on the reservoir. This is a good thing that prevents flex, BUT it also means that some controls won't sit properly outboard of the clamp due to the lever brace being in the way, this is particularly noticeable on the Radics. The Maximas are generally OK in this regard, but the lever reach adjuster might conflict with controls. The Intends have one possibly fatal flaw I mentioned before: the brace position combined with the usable lever length means using long grips like Meaty Paws positions the lever so far inboard you can't reach it. I have it near slammed against my grips and it's fine, but this may be a problem for people with certain hand sizes. The Saints have a super nice, rigid feeling clamp that I wish others would adopt. The Mavens will flex slightly under heavy power, IMO they should've adopted a stronger clamp, Matchmaker just isn't it.

Install/Bleed/etc: The Intends are the cleanest bleeding brake I've used, they are super easy to bleed and install, I also like that they use a reusable fitting that rotates. The Maximas are more work due to the braided hoses, but are pretty easy if you can cut them properly, they also have instructions for aligning the hoses, which is nice. The bleed process for the Maximas is often complained about but I had no issues, I just followed the instructions and it worked out. They should include the bleed block with the brakes, it's absurd they don't. I had issues with the Hope hose kinking and twisting, but other than that it wasn't noteworthy. The Saints, MT7s, Dominions, were all easy to bleed and install, although I know some report problems with alignment on the MT7s and bleed problems, but I didn't have that issue. The Radics are easy as well once you get used to working with the braided hoses, the Bleeding Edge fitting they use is super nice. Finding Bionol in the US is a nightmare though, for those and Trickstuff. The Dominion bleed block includes a half block on one side you can use to work the pistons out safely and clean them, IMO everyone should do this. Hope provides something similar in the form of a STL file you can 3d print, but not everyone will have access to one to do this.

Value: Overall the Dominions are the best combination of everything IMO, if not the best at any one category, but for the price you get a lot of good stuff that makes them the best value IMO. The Trickstuff are a hard sell at $1200 and I think it's dumb they don't include the bleed kit, block, and especially fluid given how hard it is to find. The Intends I feel are a good value considering everything they come with and their performance, but they are hard to obtain and no doubt expensive. Hopes are kindof middling, more expensive than Dominions, but cheaper than the others and offering similar performance/feel. The problem with them is quickly finding parts if you are in the US. You can get MT7s very cheap these days, but I'd still opt for Dominions over them given the other factors. 

If you like running levers close to the bar and want a ton of power, get the Radics, there is no better option with such a short deadstroke to power point. If you want a long, linear, smooth pull with gradual power delivery, Hope T4 V4 or Maximas will get you there, with the Maximas being slightly more complicated to work on and harder to find parts for (this may be a major issue down the line and is my #1 concern with anything Trickstuff). If you want rapid power delivery, the Mavens, Radics, or Intends all fall into that category (in that order), the Mavens require more throw than the Radics but power comes on faster once the pads engage. Overall for most people I usually suggest the Dominions, they are a good average point despite not being the best at everything, they are good at everything and lack the pitfalls of some of the others. For very heavy riders, Mavens or Radics would be my choice. Lighter riders would get along better with the Hopes, Maximas, Dominions, and possibly MT7s. The Intends are a slightly more powerful, easier to work, and refined Dominion, so if you can get them and don't fall into one extreme or the other in how you want them to feel or weight range, they are amazing.

I haven't tried TRP, Beringer, or that brand that's a number (I forget what it is).

i read your thoughts about 3 times already, new batch of Trinity is coming next week and i'm considering waking up at 5am and brake the bank,

currently on tuned MT7 with Oak lever, i love the radial levers and so Intend make heaps of sense, lighter feel, more power, better construction, seal and spare parts availability, twisting hose, mineral oil, easy af bleed, it sounds great on paper, although it means 1000$ expense and early wake trying to get them.

other option i feel is good for spare parts and such would be the Hope tech4 V4 that would cost me half the money literally, but come with a messy bleed and dot fluid that i'm not super convinced on, plus, not sure about the lever blade feel as many say it's sharp on your fingers which i believe intend is not.

What are you thoughts? Should i try pulling the trigger and braking the bank with Intends or go with Hopes whenever i can since they're easy to get anyway? i mean, is the performance and ease to live with of Intend worth double money vs Hope?

and i'll add, Intend uses Plutoline oil which seems to be the best one to bleed but the worst in terms of heat resistance, i'd go with Bionol if choosing, it seems to be the best one

https://www.radicperformance.com/brake-fluid-tech#:~:text=MAXIMA%20MINE…

1
Shinook
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Pisgah Forest, NC US
5/14/2024 5:30pm
i read your thoughts about 3 times already, new batch of Trinity is coming next week and i'm considering waking up at 5am and brake the...

i read your thoughts about 3 times already, new batch of Trinity is coming next week and i'm considering waking up at 5am and brake the bank,

currently on tuned MT7 with Oak lever, i love the radial levers and so Intend make heaps of sense, lighter feel, more power, better construction, seal and spare parts availability, twisting hose, mineral oil, easy af bleed, it sounds great on paper, although it means 1000$ expense and early wake trying to get them.

other option i feel is good for spare parts and such would be the Hope tech4 V4 that would cost me half the money literally, but come with a messy bleed and dot fluid that i'm not super convinced on, plus, not sure about the lever blade feel as many say it's sharp on your fingers which i believe intend is not.

What are you thoughts? Should i try pulling the trigger and braking the bank with Intends or go with Hopes whenever i can since they're easy to get anyway? i mean, is the performance and ease to live with of Intend worth double money vs Hope?

and i'll add, Intend uses Plutoline oil which seems to be the best one to bleed but the worst in terms of heat resistance, i'd go with Bionol if choosing, it seems to be the best one

https://www.radicperformance.com/brake-fluid-tech#:~:text=MAXIMA%20MINE…

Get the Intends. You won't regret it. 

The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a light engagement point. Some do, some don't. I find it a bit on the vague side, although manageable. They are great brakes, but they lack the attention to detail and overall finish quality of the Intends. 

** Ok, one more circumstance: If you run large grips like I mentioned before, the Hopes are more versatile in lever positioning. This is a minority of riders but worth noting. 

 

1
NicoZesty96
Posts
166
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portogruaro, VE IT
5/14/2024 7:37pm
Shinook wrote:
Get the Intends. You won't regret it.  The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a...

Get the Intends. You won't regret it. 

The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a light engagement point. Some do, some don't. I find it a bit on the vague side, although manageable. They are great brakes, but they lack the attention to detail and overall finish quality of the Intends. 

** Ok, one more circumstance: If you run large grips like I mentioned before, the Hopes are more versatile in lever positioning. This is a minority of riders but worth noting. 

 

i run esi grips so no problem with that, had any issues with the plutoline? it seems to have a really low flashpoint, no boiling point stated, it seems to be a suspension oil Blink

Shinook
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Pisgah Forest, NC US
5/14/2024 7:47pm
Shinook wrote:
Get the Intends. You won't regret it.  The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a...

Get the Intends. You won't regret it. 

The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a light engagement point. Some do, some don't. I find it a bit on the vague side, although manageable. They are great brakes, but they lack the attention to detail and overall finish quality of the Intends. 

** Ok, one more circumstance: If you run large grips like I mentioned before, the Hopes are more versatile in lever positioning. This is a minority of riders but worth noting. 

 

i run esi grips so no problem with that, had any issues with the plutoline? it seems to have a really low flashpoint, no boiling point...

i run esi grips so no problem with that, had any issues with the plutoline? it seems to have a really low flashpoint, no boiling point stated, it seems to be a suspension oil Blink

I tried to fade them and couldn't. Consistent the entire time.

1
NicoZesty96
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portogruaro, VE IT
5/14/2024 8:12pm
Shinook wrote:
Get the Intends. You won't regret it.  The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a...

Get the Intends. You won't regret it. 

The only circumstance where I'd recommend the Hope T4 V4 over the Intends is if you really want a light engagement point. Some do, some don't. I find it a bit on the vague side, although manageable. They are great brakes, but they lack the attention to detail and overall finish quality of the Intends. 

** Ok, one more circumstance: If you run large grips like I mentioned before, the Hopes are more versatile in lever positioning. This is a minority of riders but worth noting. 

 

i run esi grips so no problem with that, had any issues with the plutoline? it seems to have a really low flashpoint, no boiling point...

i run esi grips so no problem with that, had any issues with the plutoline? it seems to have a really low flashpoint, no boiling point stated, it seems to be a suspension oil Blink

Shinook wrote:

I tried to fade them and couldn't. Consistent the entire time.

Shit. i guess i have to put the alarm at 5 am next wednesday, Refrigerator or not? i hope they're not rattly

1
ewebster
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5/14/2024 8:20pm
BenediktB wrote:
In my experience the Monolithic rotors tend to loose bite and power after aggressive riding pretty fast. They started of great but all of a sudden...

In my experience the Monolithic rotors tend to loose bite and power after aggressive riding pretty fast. They started of great but all of a sudden they lost all power.

I now have Galfer pro pads with Galfer wave rotors 223/203 and can't say I have tried more powerful brakes.

Would recommend to get new rotors as it did wonders for me.

Are you on the 1.8 or 2.0 Galfer rotors? I definitely like my 2.3 rotors, but if the thinner Galfer rotors are an overall improvement to the Curas then I'll definitely consider them.

Shinook
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5/14/2024 8:30pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2024 8:30pm

I can't speak to the performance difference with or without Refrigerators, I ran them full time. 

The Refrigerators don't work like normal pad fins, though, they seat into the area around the piston. No rattling or noise, but they do pop out at times when you are working on the brakes. They remained in place and quiet the entire time I ran them on the bike, it was only a minor nuisance when working on them. If I had to work the pistons, I got to where I just removed them then reinstalled. Non-issue either way.

I would get whatever you can. They are only dropping 50 sets, when I got mine all were gone in under 3 minutes and there was only one left for about 2 of those minutes.

As for my next dose of brake addiction/experimentation, I ended up ordering both Cura types: 2 and 4 piston. I'm going to use Trickstuff pads right away and see how they fare. I get a lot of mixed impressions on these, some say the 2 pistons are better, some say 4, some say they both are middling or mediocre. They were cheap enough to get and try. I also got the FCS levers, although they were somewhat hard to come by as they are sold out most places, but apparently they add leverage. We'll see. 

2
sprungmass
Posts
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Location
Calgary, AB CA
5/14/2024 9:24pm Edited Date/Time 5/14/2024 9:25pm
i read your thoughts about 3 times already, new batch of Trinity is coming next week and i'm considering waking up at 5am and brake the...

i read your thoughts about 3 times already, new batch of Trinity is coming next week and i'm considering waking up at 5am and brake the bank,

currently on tuned MT7 with Oak lever, i love the radial levers and so Intend make heaps of sense, lighter feel, more power, better construction, seal and spare parts availability, twisting hose, mineral oil, easy af bleed, it sounds great on paper, although it means 1000$ expense and early wake trying to get them.

other option i feel is good for spare parts and such would be the Hope tech4 V4 that would cost me half the money literally, but come with a messy bleed and dot fluid that i'm not super convinced on, plus, not sure about the lever blade feel as many say it's sharp on your fingers which i believe intend is not.

What are you thoughts? Should i try pulling the trigger and braking the bank with Intends or go with Hopes whenever i can since they're easy to get anyway? i mean, is the performance and ease to live with of Intend worth double money vs Hope?

and i'll add, Intend uses Plutoline oil which seems to be the best one to bleed but the worst in terms of heat resistance, i'd go with Bionol if choosing, it seems to be the best one

https://www.radicperformance.com/brake-fluid-tech#:~:text=MAXIMA%20MINE…

If you are seriously considering them, you should prep before the drop. They do PayPal or bank transfer but PayPal is faster. Make sure you are logged in shortly before the drop so you don't have to fumble at checkout. Have your primary payment method is all sorted out. Also add your accessories like brake pads, extra oil etc beforehand so you don't have to waste time shopping. As Shinook mentioned, you have 3 minutes at best to complete the purchase. 

Good luck! You will not regret them. Even if you do, the resale will be easy. 

PS. There's someone over at MTBR selling a like-new pair if you want an easier way.

 

2
NicoZesty96
Posts
166
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Location
portogruaro, VE IT
5/14/2024 11:41pm
Shinook wrote:
I can't speak to the performance difference with or without Refrigerators, I ran them full time.  The Refrigerators don't work like normal pad fins, though, they...

I can't speak to the performance difference with or without Refrigerators, I ran them full time. 

The Refrigerators don't work like normal pad fins, though, they seat into the area around the piston. No rattling or noise, but they do pop out at times when you are working on the brakes. They remained in place and quiet the entire time I ran them on the bike, it was only a minor nuisance when working on them. If I had to work the pistons, I got to where I just removed them then reinstalled. Non-issue either way.

I would get whatever you can. They are only dropping 50 sets, when I got mine all were gone in under 3 minutes and there was only one left for about 2 of those minutes.

As for my next dose of brake addiction/experimentation, I ended up ordering both Cura types: 2 and 4 piston. I'm going to use Trickstuff pads right away and see how they fare. I get a lot of mixed impressions on these, some say the 2 pistons are better, some say 4, some say they both are middling or mediocre. They were cheap enough to get and try. I also got the FCS levers, although they were somewhat hard to come by as they are sold out most places, but apparently they add leverage. We'll see. 

Since you’re getting other brakes as well, do you have any trickstuff or intends for sale?

5/15/2024 12:19am

Nice topic this, as someone who’s incredibly fussy about brake feel it’s been an interesting read. Would love to try the intends and Trickstuff one day. My setup is MT7s with the hc3 levers on hope 2.3mm rotors. Did try the oak levers and liked the bite point adjustment as I like a short lever throw but I like the leverage adjust on the hc3 to much so swapped back. Now I shim the pads as they wear to keep the pistons in and also put a block in between the the lever and master cylinder to shorten throw

1
BenediktB
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Kópavogur IS
Fantasy
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5/15/2024 3:36am
BenediktB wrote:
In my experience the Monolithic rotors tend to loose bite and power after aggressive riding pretty fast. They started of great but all of a sudden...

In my experience the Monolithic rotors tend to loose bite and power after aggressive riding pretty fast. They started of great but all of a sudden they lost all power.

I now have Galfer pro pads with Galfer wave rotors 223/203 and can't say I have tried more powerful brakes.

Would recommend to get new rotors as it did wonders for me.

ewebster wrote:
Are you on the 1.8 or 2.0 Galfer rotors? I definitely like my 2.3 rotors, but if the thinner Galfer rotors are an overall improvement to...

Are you on the 1.8 or 2.0 Galfer rotors? I definitely like my 2.3 rotors, but if the thinner Galfer rotors are an overall improvement to the Curas then I'll definitely consider them.

I am on the 2.0 mm rotors at the moment. Can’t say they are any worse in heat management compared to the Monolithic rotors but they have way more power/bite.

I want to try 2.3 mm again but with my bad experience with the monolithic rotors I’m gonna try the Intend massive or the new TRP rotors when the current ones wear out.

SteveClimber
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218
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Perth, WA AU
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688th
5/15/2024 4:14am
Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference...

Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference assuming the brakes are bled correctly. Basically centering the body of the caliper, pulling the lever a few times, and pressing against whichever pistons come out first to allow the opposite side to come out the same distance and eliminate the rotor from flexing between sides. 90% of spongy brakes I work on are from the rotor flexing from unequal pad contact. Equalizing the input from pistons on both sides has made the bite point both instant and much stronger on my Codes and Mavens. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really...

As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really really lined up and also by truing the rotor well. When you're manually pushing back on pistons to balance their speed, are you doing it with the rotor in? Or using the rotor to center the caliper and then pulling the rotor out for dinking with individual pistons?

FWIW I've ridden or pulled brakes on many of Jonny's bikes and the lever feel is always sharp and balanced. Top notch. The man knows what he's doing.

I think half the reason that thick rotors feel better is that there is less gap between pad and rotor and therefore less chance for sticky Pistons to impact performance, and also less rotor warp under load making the S shape from the pad force. 

Obviously the heat management is billed as the main benefit, but because you are forced to align your pistons and pads properly because of the tighter tolerances you unknowingly get a much better product. 

1
1
gibbon
Posts
262
Joined
3/7/2019
Location
GB
5/15/2024 7:39am

Can we petition Hope to release the custom levers Joe Barnes is using.....I really want tech4's but I hate the lever shape so much when I've tried them (not the length....just the shape).

4
Primoz
Posts
3251
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8/1/2009
Location
SI
Fantasy
470th
5/15/2024 9:40am
Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference...

Agreed, the factory bleed on many bikes seem to be a bit lazy. I think centering the pistons in the caliper makes an even bigger difference assuming the brakes are bled correctly. Basically centering the body of the caliper, pulling the lever a few times, and pressing against whichever pistons come out first to allow the opposite side to come out the same distance and eliminate the rotor from flexing between sides. 90% of spongy brakes I work on are from the rotor flexing from unequal pad contact. Equalizing the input from pistons on both sides has made the bite point both instant and much stronger on my Codes and Mavens. 

TEAMROBOT wrote:
As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really...

As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really really lined up and also by truing the rotor well. When you're manually pushing back on pistons to balance their speed, are you doing it with the rotor in? Or using the rotor to center the caliper and then pulling the rotor out for dinking with individual pistons?

FWIW I've ridden or pulled brakes on many of Jonny's bikes and the lever feel is always sharp and balanced. Top notch. The man knows what he's doing.

I think half the reason that thick rotors feel better is that there is less gap between pad and rotor and therefore less chance for sticky...

I think half the reason that thick rotors feel better is that there is less gap between pad and rotor and therefore less chance for sticky Pistons to impact performance, and also less rotor warp under load making the S shape from the pad force. 

Obviously the heat management is billed as the main benefit, but because you are forced to align your pistons and pads properly because of the tighter tolerances you unknowingly get a much better product. 

Technically, if the system is designed to take anything from a 2,3 mm to a 1,8 mm rotor (so there is enough oil in the reservoir and the bladder is flexible enough to compensate for the change in volume AND the caliper has the space and the pistons are long enough to compensate the 0,5 mm in difference besides pad wear), the pad gap should be the same regardless of rotor thickness.

5
NicoZesty96
Posts
166
Joined
8/21/2014
Location
portogruaro, VE IT
5/15/2024 12:11pm
TEAMROBOT wrote:
As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really...

As a longtime Shimano brake user, I have the same sentiment. It's amazing how much you can change brake lever feel by getting the caliper really really lined up and also by truing the rotor well. When you're manually pushing back on pistons to balance their speed, are you doing it with the rotor in? Or using the rotor to center the caliper and then pulling the rotor out for dinking with individual pistons?

FWIW I've ridden or pulled brakes on many of Jonny's bikes and the lever feel is always sharp and balanced. Top notch. The man knows what he's doing.

I think half the reason that thick rotors feel better is that there is less gap between pad and rotor and therefore less chance for sticky...

I think half the reason that thick rotors feel better is that there is less gap between pad and rotor and therefore less chance for sticky Pistons to impact performance, and also less rotor warp under load making the S shape from the pad force. 

Obviously the heat management is billed as the main benefit, but because you are forced to align your pistons and pads properly because of the tighter tolerances you unknowingly get a much better product. 

Primoz wrote:
Technically, if the system is designed to take anything from a 2,3 mm to a 1,8 mm rotor (so there is enough oil in the reservoir...

Technically, if the system is designed to take anything from a 2,3 mm to a 1,8 mm rotor (so there is enough oil in the reservoir and the bladder is flexible enough to compensate for the change in volume AND the caliper has the space and the pistons are long enough to compensate the 0,5 mm in difference besides pad wear), the pad gap should be the same regardless of rotor thickness.

indeed, we can argue that a thicker rotor makes the pistons work more inside the caliper but even when i put trp rotors 2.3mm with purple galfer ( way thicker than the trickstuff power that i use ) on my mt7 the gap between pads and rotor was the exact same as 2mm rotor and trick pads

1
shakazulu12
Posts
13
Joined
10/5/2021
Location
Vancouver, WA US
5/15/2024 2:13pm
Shinook wrote:
I can't speak to the performance difference with or without Refrigerators, I ran them full time.  The Refrigerators don't work like normal pad fins, though, they...

I can't speak to the performance difference with or without Refrigerators, I ran them full time. 

The Refrigerators don't work like normal pad fins, though, they seat into the area around the piston. No rattling or noise, but they do pop out at times when you are working on the brakes. They remained in place and quiet the entire time I ran them on the bike, it was only a minor nuisance when working on them. If I had to work the pistons, I got to where I just removed them then reinstalled. Non-issue either way.

I would get whatever you can. They are only dropping 50 sets, when I got mine all were gone in under 3 minutes and there was only one left for about 2 of those minutes.

As for my next dose of brake addiction/experimentation, I ended up ordering both Cura types: 2 and 4 piston. I'm going to use Trickstuff pads right away and see how they fare. I get a lot of mixed impressions on these, some say the 2 pistons are better, some say 4, some say they both are middling or mediocre. They were cheap enough to get and try. I also got the FCS levers, although they were somewhat hard to come by as they are sold out most places, but apparently they add leverage. We'll see. 

I've got Dominions on the E-bike and Cura 4's on the DH bike.  The Cura 4's don't do anything wrong to me, and while it's all personal, I find the lever feel decent.  The power ramps up in a linear fashion, more pull, more stop.  They just don't stop as hard as the Dominions in my opinion.  Which engage quicker and seem to provide more power for a given amount of finger pressure.  Despite the bike weight more, I can ride longer before finger fatigue sets in with them. 

I've got a set of Direttissima's where the rear caliper has been giving me issues and I'm kinda over them.  So my thought is I'm finally going to get around to fitting the Cura 4 calipers to the DT levers in an attempt to get the power equal to or greater than what I feel with the Dominions.

The Dominions installed on the ebike have MTX pads on them now, the Cura 4's have Trickstuff Power+ pads.

That being said, YMMV as it seems brakes are very personal and one man's meat is another man's poison.

1
Shinook
Posts
56
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Pisgah Forest, NC US
5/15/2024 8:16pm Edited Date/Time 5/15/2024 8:18pm
I've got Dominions on the E-bike and Cura 4's on the DH bike.  The Cura 4's don't do anything wrong to me, and while it's all...

I've got Dominions on the E-bike and Cura 4's on the DH bike.  The Cura 4's don't do anything wrong to me, and while it's all personal, I find the lever feel decent.  The power ramps up in a linear fashion, more pull, more stop.  They just don't stop as hard as the Dominions in my opinion.  Which engage quicker and seem to provide more power for a given amount of finger pressure.  Despite the bike weight more, I can ride longer before finger fatigue sets in with them. 

I've got a set of Direttissima's where the rear caliper has been giving me issues and I'm kinda over them.  So my thought is I'm finally going to get around to fitting the Cura 4 calipers to the DT levers in an attempt to get the power equal to or greater than what I feel with the Dominions.

The Dominions installed on the ebike have MTX pads on them now, the Cura 4's have Trickstuff Power+ pads.

That being said, YMMV as it seems brakes are very personal and one man's meat is another man's poison.

That's good feedback, thanks. I ordered both the 2 and 4s to try out with Trickstuff pads. I'll offer some impressions when I get them on. Ironically, getting the oil shipped from CO is taking longer to get here than the brakes coming from Germany.

They seem somewhat polarizing. Like you said it's hard to define what "power" is because everyone sees it differently, is on different bikes and terrain, and likes a different feel. Both the 2 and 4 have pretty wildly different impressions out there. I'm going to be running a Selva C soon and figured I'd give their brakes a shot also, but I do understand the stock pads aren't powerful by today's standards. The Enduro MTB test showed something similar, with the Sinter Green pads the performance was respectable although not comparable to Trickstuff or Hope, not far off, but the stock organic pads weren't great. They didn't test the 2 and the data from the 2018 test is a bit hard to compare. There isn't a lot of data on pad contact, some saying the four requires a longer stroke than the two, but I can't really get a feel for how much deadstroke there is. One of my main beefs with the Dominions is the long deadstroke in the lever throw, it's not awful and I've had worse, but I'd prefer it shorter even if it means a more fickle setup.

I also have a set of FCS levers coming in, which supposedly changes the leverage, these were in the recent PB review for the four and the Enduro MTB test, but no prior tests with the 2. The stock leverage on these is pretty middling based on #s alone, so this might help some. The guys at Geometron had good things to say about them, but they recommended the lever upgrade and using different pads for me at my weight. Paul Aston had good things to say about the 2s when he reviewed them also, but comparisons against Code, Guide, etc elsewhere give me pause. I'd prefer something on the grabbier side. 

I'll report in after I've had some time on them, but would be curious to hear what others say as well.  

Shinook
Posts
56
Joined
12/29/2015
Location
Pisgah Forest, NC US
5/16/2024 6:06am
https://p.vitalmtb.com/styles/full_size_1600/s3/photos/users/94/photos/2024-05/20240515_UCI_DHEDR_WC_Poland_SR31557_1.jpg?VersionId=ajOlpkngN8P5it_O_L9iDksHd2CpD0fi&itok=QvJy-Y8b wondering what the changes are on these compared to the dhr evo lever, i tried them once ( the current ones ) and i loved...

https://p.vitalmtb.com/styles/full_size_1600/s3/photos/users/94/photos/…

wondering what the changes are on these compared to the dhr evo lever, i tried them once ( the current ones ) and i loved the modulation but lacked power compared to my mt7

Looks like an effort to get the lever closer to the bar? 

Most people running DH-R Evos seem to run the lever further out for whatever reason, this looks like you can bring it in closer. No personal experience though, just an observation.

2
bcurrancy
Posts
15
Joined
11/10/2022
Location
Waitsfield, VT US
5/16/2024 7:01pm
https://p.vitalmtb.com/styles/full_size_1600/s3/photos/users/94/photos/2024-05/20240515_UCI_DHEDR_WC_Poland_SR31557_1.jpg?VersionId=ajOlpkngN8P5it_O_L9iDksHd2CpD0fi&itok=QvJy-Y8b wondering what the changes are on these compared to the dhr evo lever, i tried them once ( the current ones ) and i loved...

https://p.vitalmtb.com/styles/full_size_1600/s3/photos/users/94/photos/…

wondering what the changes are on these compared to the dhr evo lever, i tried them once ( the current ones ) and i loved the modulation but lacked power compared to my mt7

Shinook wrote:
Looks like an effort to get the lever closer to the bar?  Most people running DH-R Evos seem to run the lever further out for whatever...

Looks like an effort to get the lever closer to the bar? 

Most people running DH-R Evos seem to run the lever further out for whatever reason, this looks like you can bring it in closer. No personal experience though, just an observation.

The lever reach adjustment is limited on the DHR evos and most TRP brakes i've used.

Some people cut extra threads into the adjustment bolt that allows the lever to get closer to the bar before bottoming out... the world cup teams have had access to longer reach adjustment screws for years, but that does also look like a new lever.

It must be a safety or durability thing that keeps them from shipping with adjustment that allows you to get the lever properly close to the grip.

1
5/16/2024 7:46pm Edited Date/Time 5/16/2024 7:49pm

All the newer TRP DHR EVOs come with longer push rods now and the longer push rods are available to purchase for older DHRs. They allow the lever to be adjusted all the way to the grip if desired. I believe it was a quiet running change and is part #6 below 
 

https://trpcycling.com/products/dh-r-evo-lever-small-parts

4

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