I bought 4 brakes because they were on sale.Installed the first two, bled up fine, got to the trailhead. Lever main seal failed while riding around...
I bought 4 brakes because they were on sale.
Installed the first two, bled up fine, got to the trailhead. Lever main seal failed while riding around to bed in the pads. It would slowly lose pressure and pull to the bar.
Took it to the one local shop I trust, he did a quick lever bleed and then agreed it was a failed lever.
Called Magura, and they told me the brake couldn’t have failed the way it did and that if the main seal was bad it would be leaking out of the brake. Which is wrong. The warranty guy said “It’s a bleed issue, but if you want to throw parts at it I guess I’ll send you a brake.”
Took another one of the brakes I bought to replace the failed one and mounted it. Half way into the first ride on that brake it failed in the exact same way. Called up Magura again. Told the guy I had the exact same problem. He told me “It may need to be bled properly”. Before I said something I’d regret, I told him he’d be hearing from my LBS. I took it to my LBS and had him check my work again and then process the warranty. They gave him a horrible time with it too.
Took the warranty brake they sent me and returned the two unused ones.
In summary, my 66% is accurate. I installed three brakes on my bike and two failed. I Had the LBS check my work every time. After the second one failed on a steep trail I decided they weren’t worth trusting with my safety. If they’d been super apologetic and helpful, maybe I’d feel different about it. But they were dicks and basically insisted that if there was a problem, I must be doing something wrong.
Well it’s accurate if you were 100% of the customers
Which you’re not, but damn that’s unlucky, and I guess different countries will experience different customer service experienced depending on who you find on the other side
My and my friends experience has been the exact opposite to yours with 100% success rate, neither of our percentages are the whole picture, but I’d be piased too if I were you
I bought 4 brakes because they were on sale.Installed the first two, bled up fine, got to the trailhead. Lever main seal failed while riding around...
I bought 4 brakes because they were on sale.
Installed the first two, bled up fine, got to the trailhead. Lever main seal failed while riding around to bed in the pads. It would slowly lose pressure and pull to the bar.
Took it to the one local shop I trust, he did a quick lever bleed and then agreed it was a failed lever.
Called Magura, and they told me the brake couldn’t have failed the way it did and that if the main seal was bad it would be leaking out of the brake. Which is wrong. The warranty guy said “It’s a bleed issue, but if you want to throw parts at it I guess I’ll send you a brake.”
Took another one of the brakes I bought to replace the failed one and mounted it. Half way into the first ride on that brake it failed in the exact same way. Called up Magura again. Told the guy I had the exact same problem. He told me “It may need to be bled properly”. Before I said something I’d regret, I told him he’d be hearing from my LBS. I took it to my LBS and had him check my work again and then process the warranty. They gave him a horrible time with it too.
Took the warranty brake they sent me and returned the two unused ones.
In summary, my 66% is accurate. I installed three brakes on my bike and two failed. I Had the LBS check my work every time. After the second one failed on a steep trail I decided they weren’t worth trusting with my safety. If they’d been super apologetic and helpful, maybe I’d feel different about it. But they were dicks and basically insisted that if there was a problem, I must be doing something wrong.
Well it’s accurate if you were 100% of the customers Which you’re not, but damn that’s unlucky, and I guess different countries will experience different customer service...
Well it’s accurate if you were 100% of the customers
Which you’re not, but damn that’s unlucky, and I guess different countries will experience different customer service experienced depending on who you find on the other side
My and my friends experience has been the exact opposite to yours with 100% success rate, neither of our percentages are the whole picture, but I’d be piased too if I were you
I didn’t say Maguras have a 66% failure rate. A lot of people are very happy with their brakes.
I said “My Maguras had a 66% failure rate” which is a factual statement. I installed 3 and 2 failed.
It was the customer service that eliminated any chance of me using their products in future. Insisting your products work differently to the way they actually do and calling your customers incompetent is an unusual strategy.
i could actually get some spare hopes piston and attempt something like that, i feel one of the best things on Magura's are the pistons, the...
i could actually get some spare hopes piston and attempt something like that, i feel one of the best things on Magura's are the pistons, the magnet is just genius and i have no idea why others don't do it
Seen mechanical calipers using magnetic pad retention lose their magnetism under heavy, heavy use. Think Pike's Peak or Highway to the Sun in HI. It requires...
Seen mechanical calipers using magnetic pad retention lose their magnetism under heavy, heavy use. Think Pike's Peak or Highway to the Sun in HI. It requires deep and heavy heat cycling, but it can happen.
Again, if Magura users never had anissue with it, me included, i think it's solid enough that other manufacturers could use it if done the same...
Again, if Magura users never had anissue with it, me included, i think it's solid enough that other manufacturers could use it if done the same way.
Not saying it doesn't work, just saying in certain worst use case scenarios it isn't the most reliable. Certainly is satisfying replacing a set of pads and hearing that snap as they pop into place though.
@Nobble Magura USA are NOT Magura! They are just a distributor. They are useless and I don’t know why Magura haven’t dropped them.
Your symptoms generally only happen if the system is overfilled or after a crash.
If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.
Bleeding without the bleed blocks installed (and pads still in) causes overfilling.
It’s a common occurrence (for warranty depts) to see these cases and it’s always user error. Magura’s are a super simple bleed but the amount of PRO mechanics I’ve seen that try to bodge and do their own methods is ridiculous. And they always cause issues.
The mere fact that you’ve had such a high failure rate points to you being the common denominator.
Maguras carbotecture masters are a known weak point so you have to bleed and maintain them with that in mind.
This guy replaced the stock bearing on the Hope lever with a different one that seems to be bigger and perhaps stiffer 🧐 Anyone done this? Or know why would you do it?
This guy replaced the stock bearing on the Hope lever with a different one that seems to be bigger and perhaps stiffer 🧐 Anyone done this? Or know why would you do it?
One is bushing, one is bearing, bearing could obviously improve lever feel, stock one seems to slide instead of rotating when it gets contaminated over time. Shorter lever throw could be side effect too as it effectively pushes the piston further into the bore, similar to mod people are doing to dominion levers in this thread.
One is bushing, one is bearing, bearing could obviously improve lever feel, stock one seems to slide instead of rotating when it gets contaminated over time...
One is bushing, one is bearing, bearing could obviously improve lever feel, stock one seems to slide instead of rotating when it gets contaminated over time. Shorter lever throw could be side effect too as it effectively pushes the piston further into the bore, similar to mod people are doing to dominion levers in this thread.
So it could be an actual improvement
Shortening the lever throw a bit and smoother actuation, interesting
Everyone seems to hate Shimano brakes in this thread but I will give it a shot.
I recently acuired the Oak Components SH Levers for my SLX M7120-set. Initially I havn't been impressed at all, the levers feel sticky and there is a lot more "dead stroke" before the bite. Brakes are bled correctly and worked flawlessly with stock levers without wandering bite point etc.
Anyone else having the same issues or experiences?
I just wanted to share a positive experience with Trickstuff and how their brakes can possibly be considered well supported here in North America. For a while now there was an understanding that after spending a lot of money on these, you will have to order spare parts from Germany.
Long story short, I somehow ruptured the membrane/diaphragm in both levers. Reached out to TS, they quickly confirmed that the membrane is indeed ruptured and connected with me with a DT Swiss subsidiary in Grand Junction, Colorado. Just a few days later, I receive a package from DT Swiss with two brand new membranes. No further, questions, free of charge fast shipping to Canada. That's pretty good service and looks like the DT Swiss acquisition has brought a lot of positives.
Everyone seems to hate Shimano brakes in this thread but I will give it a shot.I recently acuired the Oak Components SH Levers for my SLX...
Everyone seems to hate Shimano brakes in this thread but I will give it a shot.
I recently acuired the Oak Components SH Levers for my SLX M7120-set. Initially I havn't been impressed at all, the levers feel sticky and there is a lot more "dead stroke" before the bite. Brakes are bled correctly and worked flawlessly with stock levers without wandering bite point etc.
Anyone else having the same issues or experiences?
Can't comment on the shimano levers, but my levers for magura are amazing. You should contact OAK and ask, they can help you.
Everyone seems to hate Shimano brakes in this thread but I will give it a shot.I recently acuired the Oak Components SH Levers for my SLX...
Everyone seems to hate Shimano brakes in this thread but I will give it a shot.
I recently acuired the Oak Components SH Levers for my SLX M7120-set. Initially I havn't been impressed at all, the levers feel sticky and there is a lot more "dead stroke" before the bite. Brakes are bled correctly and worked flawlessly with stock levers without wandering bite point etc.
Anyone else having the same issues or experiences?
Love Shimano and can’t wait for their new XTR/Saint brake to be released.
I’ve Never had an issue with wandering bite on any of mine (expect my 3 year old Zees where you could see fluid ooze from the master) and every single one (that came through my workshops) we were able to fix with a decent bleed. Saw some failures form use of incompatible fluid though.
You can get any brake to wander with a shite bleed, no maintenance and neglect.
Why is it with mineral oil brakes people use any fluid except that which is recommended, whilst no one is stupid enough to put DOT 5 in their DOT4/5.1 brake and complain about it.
@Nobble Magura USA are NOT Magura! They are just a distributor. They are useless and I don’t know why Magura haven’t dropped them. Your symptoms generally only...
@Nobble Magura USA are NOT Magura! They are just a distributor. They are useless and I don’t know why Magura haven’t dropped them.
Your symptoms generally only happen if the system is overfilled or after a crash.
If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.
Bleeding without the bleed blocks installed (and pads still in) causes overfilling.
It’s a common occurrence (for warranty depts) to see these cases and it’s always user error. Magura’s are a super simple bleed but the amount of PRO mechanics I’ve seen that try to bodge and do their own methods is ridiculous. And they always cause issues.
The mere fact that you’ve had such a high failure rate points to you being the common denominator.
Maguras carbotecture masters are a known weak point so you have to bleed and maintain them with that in mind.
Sorry man
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me, but I am having trouble understanding how it is a risk to the main seal in the master cylinder. You wrote "If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.". Can you clarify how that works? Intuitively, it seems to me that if the main seal is designed to contain the fluid's pressure, it shouldn't matter if the pressure is from the seal being pressed into the fluid (as when squeezing the brake lever) or if the pressure is from the fluid from the fluid pressing back on the seal (as when resetting the pistons).
Love Shimano and can’t wait for their new XTR/Saint brake to be released.I’ve Never had an issue with wandering bite on any of mine (expect my...
Love Shimano and can’t wait for their new XTR/Saint brake to be released.
I’ve Never had an issue with wandering bite on any of mine (expect my 3 year old Zees where you could see fluid ooze from the master) and every single one (that came through my workshops) we were able to fix with a decent bleed. Saw some failures form use of incompatible fluid though.
You can get any brake to wander with a shite bleed, no maintenance and neglect.
Why is it with mineral oil brakes people use any fluid except that which is recommended, whilst no one is stupid enough to put DOT 5 in their DOT4/5.1 brake and complain about it.
What incompatible fluids did you see causing trouble in Shimanos? Was it the popular aftermarket hack/upgrade oils (like Redline Likewater), other mineral oil brake oils (like Magura Blood), or weird random stuff (like baby oil)?
General question about how brakes work - what causes a seized piston, one that doesn’t move in the caliper when the lever is pulled? I understand that the caliper seals essentially act as a spring, responsible for retracting the piston, and that the piston only slides within the seal when advancing to compensate for pad wear. If it is dirt that causes pistons to become stuck, how would dirt inhibit the caliper seal from flexing as the piston tries to extend?
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me...
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me, but I am having trouble understanding how it is a risk to the main seal in the master cylinder. You wrote "If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.". Can you clarify how that works? Intuitively, it seems to me that if the main seal is designed to contain the fluid's pressure, it shouldn't matter if the pressure is from the seal being pressed into the fluid (as when squeezing the brake lever) or if the pressure is from the fluid from the fluid pressing back on the seal (as when resetting the pistons).
When you squeeze the lever under normal braking, that pressure does not effect the seal in the master
The main seal is only held in place by a weak plastic (sorry carbotecture) cap that is press into its place, If you force fluid back into the master (by resetting the pistons) it has nowhere to go and can easily blow that seal/cap... which is not replaceable
When you squeeze the lever under normal braking, that pressure does not effect the seal in the masterThe main seal is only held in place by...
When you squeeze the lever under normal braking, that pressure does not effect the seal in the master
The main seal is only held in place by a weak plastic (sorry carbotecture) cap that is press into its place, If you force fluid back into the master (by resetting the pistons) it has nowhere to go and can easily blow that seal/cap... which is not replaceable
crap or fancy 7075 anodized alluminium, if it has a membrane the risk is the same when resetting pistons on a closed system, especially when overfilled
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me...
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me, but I am having trouble understanding how it is a risk to the main seal in the master cylinder. You wrote "If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.". Can you clarify how that works? Intuitively, it seems to me that if the main seal is designed to contain the fluid's pressure, it shouldn't matter if the pressure is from the seal being pressed into the fluid (as when squeezing the brake lever) or if the pressure is from the fluid from the fluid pressing back on the seal (as when resetting the pistons).
When you squeeze the lever under normal braking, that pressure does not effect the seal in the masterThe main seal is only held in place by...
When you squeeze the lever under normal braking, that pressure does not effect the seal in the master
The main seal is only held in place by a weak plastic (sorry carbotecture) cap that is press into its place, If you force fluid back into the master (by resetting the pistons) it has nowhere to go and can easily blow that seal/cap... which is not replaceable
So it's not blowing the seal, it's breaking the piston/retention part.
Also the mineral oil vs. DOT question is precisely why dot is better than mineral oil. And the problems are because it is all "mineral" oil while quite possibly being about as different as DOT 5.1 is vs. DOT 5. Maybe selling it as "mineral oil 42xyz" would clear up these issues and would prevent some compatibility issues. You can put mineral engine oil in your car but if it was designed for 0W40 and you put 20W75 in it, the engine won't be happy. Even though it got mineral oil. With dot you have the exact specification you can and should put in.
Love Shimano and can’t wait for their new XTR/Saint brake to be released.I’ve Never had an issue with wandering bite on any of mine (expect my...
Love Shimano and can’t wait for their new XTR/Saint brake to be released.
I’ve Never had an issue with wandering bite on any of mine (expect my 3 year old Zees where you could see fluid ooze from the master) and every single one (that came through my workshops) we were able to fix with a decent bleed. Saw some failures form use of incompatible fluid though.
You can get any brake to wander with a shite bleed, no maintenance and neglect.
Why is it with mineral oil brakes people use any fluid except that which is recommended, whilst no one is stupid enough to put DOT 5 in their DOT4/5.1 brake and complain about it.
Great to hear! That wasn't my question though 🙂 I havn't experienced the wandering bite point in my last 5 sets of Shimano brakes either and like them a lot.
General question about how brakes work - what causes a seized piston, one that doesn’t move in the caliper when the lever is pulled? I understand...
General question about how brakes work - what causes a seized piston, one that doesn’t move in the caliper when the lever is pulled? I understand that the caliper seals essentially act as a spring, responsible for retracting the piston, and that the piston only slides within the seal when advancing to compensate for pad wear. If it is dirt that causes pistons to become stuck, how would dirt inhibit the caliper seal from flexing as the piston tries to extend?
Lotta options:
1. Piston crooked in bore. Sometimes this is obvious, other times not so much. Remedies: Push the piston back in straight by pushing on a couple sides. Worse case: install a pad on the opposite side and secure a pad spacer. Pump the brake to force the stuck piston to move and reset it after.
2. Debris. Typically happens after a good amount of use. Solutions: pump the piston out enough to clean it thoroughly. If the brake's had a helluva life, consider a caliper rebuild kit. When the caliper is split make sure to clean the bore and seal groove well with a soft bristle brush. A firm toothbrush generally works a treat.
3. Corrosion, primarily due to salts but pad dust can cause it as well over years, specifically sintered metallic pads. Caliper rebuild is in order, and you'll want to use something firmer than a toothbrush to break up the oxide layer. Plastic scraping tools are the way to go as you do not want to mess up the seal seat or bore dimensions.
4. Tolerance stack issue. If the caliper uses phenolic or ceramic pistons, the issue is more than likely an under sized bore or seal seat. Metal pistons may be oversized. This would be time to contact tech support.
EDIT: One more:
5. Contamination. IE the incorrect fluid finds its way into the system, either by bleeding it with an incompatible fluid (DOT fluid in a mineral oil brake and vice versa) or using a bleed kit that was used with both fluids. This will require a complete brake rebuild or replacement.
@Nobble Magura USA are NOT Magura! They are just a distributor. They are useless and I don’t know why Magura haven’t dropped them. Your symptoms generally only...
@Nobble Magura USA are NOT Magura! They are just a distributor. They are useless and I don’t know why Magura haven’t dropped them.
Your symptoms generally only happen if the system is overfilled or after a crash.
If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.
Bleeding without the bleed blocks installed (and pads still in) causes overfilling.
It’s a common occurrence (for warranty depts) to see these cases and it’s always user error. Magura’s are a super simple bleed but the amount of PRO mechanics I’ve seen that try to bodge and do their own methods is ridiculous. And they always cause issues.
The mere fact that you’ve had such a high failure rate points to you being the common denominator.
Maguras carbotecture masters are a known weak point so you have to bleed and maintain them with that in mind.
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me...
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me, but I am having trouble understanding how it is a risk to the main seal in the master cylinder. You wrote "If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.". Can you clarify how that works? Intuitively, it seems to me that if the main seal is designed to contain the fluid's pressure, it shouldn't matter if the pressure is from the seal being pressed into the fluid (as when squeezing the brake lever) or if the pressure is from the fluid from the fluid pressing back on the seal (as when resetting the pistons).
Couple things. If the brake is bled and maintained properly, there should be no risk of rupturing the diaphragm in the reservoir when resetting the caliper pistons. That becomes an issue when folx try to improve the lever feel by overfilling the system. The piston seals (MC & Caliper) shouldn't fail due to this simply because they're designed to handle a lot more pressure.
Can a system be overfilled by applying too much positive pressure using a syringe before closing the system? Can you share some tips on how not to overfill?
So it's not blowing the seal, it's breaking the piston/retention part.Also the mineral oil vs. DOT question is precisely why dot is better than mineral oil...
So it's not blowing the seal, it's breaking the piston/retention part.
Also the mineral oil vs. DOT question is precisely why dot is better than mineral oil. And the problems are because it is all "mineral" oil while quite possibly being about as different as DOT 5.1 is vs. DOT 5. Maybe selling it as "mineral oil 42xyz" would clear up these issues and would prevent some compatibility issues. You can put mineral engine oil in your car but if it was designed for 0W40 and you put 20W75 in it, the engine won't be happy. Even though it got mineral oil. With dot you have the exact specification you can and should put in.
We get it Primoz you don't like mineral oils. Sheesh mate, everytime
This debate can go on forever
The spec for bike brakes is quite simple: Shimano / Magura Royal Blood etc.
When you use the stuff the manufacturer recommends the issues are vastly reduced. There are more options for different brands of DOT4/5.1 because the market is HUUUGE. Very few oil producers even know bikes exist so they're not going to produce a tiny quantity of fluid because someone doesn't want to buy a bottle with Shimano on the side. Whether you like it or not its easier to do what each brake manufacturer recommends.
I've seen both the seal and the retaining cap blown/cracked/damaged.
Can a system be overfilled by applying too much positive pressure using a syringe before closing the system? Can you share some tips on how not...
Can a system be overfilled by applying too much positive pressure using a syringe before closing the system? Can you share some tips on how not to overfill?
That is exactly the #1 way a brake gets overfilled, 2nd to not resetting the pistons prior to starting a bleed. Easy to remedy. Take the hose off the syringe. Set the master cylinder up in the manufacturer's recommended bleed position and attach the hose to the bleed port. Push the caliper pistons back into their bores and this will burp out the excess fluid. You may want to wrap the hose in a bit of paper towel or a rag in case there's a lot of fluid in the system and it overflows the hose. Remove hose, install bleed port screw, clean with isopropyl (DOT) or a bit of soapy water (Mineral). Set the brake up as per instructions. Always RTFM a couple times with any brake. A lot of tips & tricks can be deduced from what the manufacturer recommends for service and it'll provide at least something indicating a flow path through the caliper and master cylinder. That bit there is a VERY valuable bit of insight.
That's good intel. Being a long time SRAM user those are two things I have a habit of doing. Over pressurize the crap out of the system to get that crisp bite point and resetting pistons without opening the system before bleeds. Never had issues across their entire MTB range. Turns out not all brake systems are that forgiving.
That's good intel. Being a long time SRAM user those are two things I have a habit of doing. Over pressurize the crap out of the...
That's good intel. Being a long time SRAM user those are two things I have a habit of doing. Over pressurize the crap out of the system to get that crisp bite point and resetting pistons without opening the system before bleeds. Never had issues across their entire MTB range. Turns out not all brake systems are that forgiving.
Can second this, I ran multiple sets of overpressurized codes for a couple of seasons and never had an issue with burst diaphrams but have seen countless shimano/magura/etc with that issue. Blew my buddies mind when I bled/over pressured his trashed Code's. Fortunately don't have to deal with that now that I'm on Hope lol.
That's good intel. Being a long time SRAM user those are two things I have a habit of doing. Over pressurize the crap out of the...
That's good intel. Being a long time SRAM user those are two things I have a habit of doing. Over pressurize the crap out of the system to get that crisp bite point and resetting pistons without opening the system before bleeds. Never had issues across their entire MTB range. Turns out not all brake systems are that forgiving.
Most brake systems don't need to be over pressurized to make them feel OK haha. I've done that with a ton of Sram brakes, it's bassically a habit now when ever I bleed them, and I've not seen any issues at the master cylinder. I haven't really tried it with brakes from other brands since their feel was generally better IMO. I wish sram would drop the G2 or 4 piston level brakes and just have the 2 piston levels, the codes / DB8, and the Mavens.
Well it’s accurate if you were 100% of the customers
Which you’re not, but damn that’s unlucky, and I guess different countries will experience different customer service experienced depending on who you find on the other side
My and my friends experience has been the exact opposite to yours with 100% success rate, neither of our percentages are the whole picture, but I’d be piased too if I were you
I didn’t say Maguras have a 66% failure rate. A lot of people are very happy with their brakes.
I said “My Maguras had a 66% failure rate” which is a factual statement. I installed 3 and 2 failed.
It was the customer service that eliminated any chance of me using their products in future. Insisting your products work differently to the way they actually do and calling your customers incompetent is an unusual strategy.
Not saying it doesn't work, just saying in certain worst use case scenarios it isn't the most reliable. Certainly is satisfying replacing a set of pads and hearing that snap as they pop into place though.
@Nobble Magura USA are NOT Magura! They are just a distributor. They are useless and I don’t know why Magura haven’t dropped them.
Your symptoms generally only happen if the system is overfilled or after a crash.
If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.
Bleeding without the bleed blocks installed (and pads still in) causes overfilling.
It’s a common occurrence (for warranty depts) to see these cases and it’s always user error. Magura’s are a super simple bleed but the amount of PRO mechanics I’ve seen that try to bodge and do their own methods is ridiculous. And they always cause issues.
The mere fact that you’ve had such a high failure rate points to you being the common denominator.
Maguras carbotecture masters are a known weak point so you have to bleed and maintain them with that in mind.
Sorry man
anyone else managed to grab one?
https://www.intend-bc.com/shop/trinity-ti/
I really want to try the trinitys but have never managed to grab a set.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C7CEIHJrp8D/?igsh=MTlhdHhwcGQxeHRzeg==
This guy replaced the stock bearing on the Hope lever with a different one that seems to be bigger and perhaps stiffer 🧐
Anyone done this? Or know why would you do it?
I am guessing this would change the leverage rate of lever movement to MC piston or at the very least put the MC piston starting position deeper ?
One is bushing, one is bearing, bearing could obviously improve lever feel, stock one seems to slide instead of rotating when it gets contaminated over time. Shorter lever throw could be side effect too as it effectively pushes the piston further into the bore, similar to mod people are doing to dominion levers in this thread.
So it could be an actual improvement
Shortening the lever throw a bit and smoother actuation, interesting
Radic brakes seems to be the sweet spot. Light pull, immense power, totally rebuildable, quality, don’t have to take the wheel off to change pads
Price half that of the maxima
Everyone seems to hate Shimano brakes in this thread but I will give it a shot.
I recently acuired the Oak Components SH Levers for my SLX M7120-set. Initially I havn't been impressed at all, the levers feel sticky and there is a lot more "dead stroke" before the bite. Brakes are bled correctly and worked flawlessly with stock levers without wandering bite point etc.
Anyone else having the same issues or experiences?
I just wanted to share a positive experience with Trickstuff and how their brakes can possibly be considered well supported here in North America. For a while now there was an understanding that after spending a lot of money on these, you will have to order spare parts from Germany.
Long story short, I somehow ruptured the membrane/diaphragm in both levers. Reached out to TS, they quickly confirmed that the membrane is indeed ruptured and connected with me with a DT Swiss subsidiary in Grand Junction, Colorado. Just a few days later, I receive a package from DT Swiss with two brand new membranes. No further, questions, free of charge fast shipping to Canada. That's pretty good service and looks like the DT Swiss acquisition has brought a lot of positives.
Can't comment on the shimano levers, but my levers for magura are amazing. You should contact OAK and ask, they can help you.
Love Shimano and can’t wait for their new XTR/Saint brake to be released.
I’ve Never had an issue with wandering bite on any of mine (expect my 3 year old Zees where you could see fluid ooze from the master) and every single one (that came through my workshops) we were able to fix with a decent bleed. Saw some failures form use of incompatible fluid though.
You can get any brake to wander with a shite bleed, no maintenance and neglect.
Why is it with mineral oil brakes people use any fluid except that which is recommended, whilst no one is stupid enough to put DOT 5 in their DOT4/5.1 brake and complain about it.
I've been hearing talk about the risks of re-setting the pistons while the system is closed. The risks to the bladder are very intuitive for me, but I am having trouble understanding how it is a risk to the main seal in the master cylinder. You wrote "If you reset the pads and don’t crack the bleed port you can easily blow the main seal too.". Can you clarify how that works? Intuitively, it seems to me that if the main seal is designed to contain the fluid's pressure, it shouldn't matter if the pressure is from the seal being pressed into the fluid (as when squeezing the brake lever) or if the pressure is from the fluid from the fluid pressing back on the seal (as when resetting the pistons).
What incompatible fluids did you see causing trouble in Shimanos? Was it the popular aftermarket hack/upgrade oils (like Redline Likewater), other mineral oil brake oils (like Magura Blood), or weird random stuff (like baby oil)?
General question about how brakes work - what causes a seized piston, one that doesn’t move in the caliper when the lever is pulled? I understand that the caliper seals essentially act as a spring, responsible for retracting the piston, and that the piston only slides within the seal when advancing to compensate for pad wear. If it is dirt that causes pistons to become stuck, how would dirt inhibit the caliper seal from flexing as the piston tries to extend?
When you squeeze the lever under normal braking, that pressure does not effect the seal in the master
The main seal is only held in place by a weak plastic (sorry carbotecture) cap that is press into its place, If you force fluid back into the master (by resetting the pistons) it has nowhere to go and can easily blow that seal/cap... which is not replaceable
crap or fancy 7075 anodized alluminium, if it has a membrane the risk is the same when resetting pistons on a closed system, especially when overfilled
So it's not blowing the seal, it's breaking the piston/retention part.
Also the mineral oil vs. DOT question is precisely why dot is better than mineral oil. And the problems are because it is all "mineral" oil while quite possibly being about as different as DOT 5.1 is vs. DOT 5. Maybe selling it as "mineral oil 42xyz" would clear up these issues and would prevent some compatibility issues. You can put mineral engine oil in your car but if it was designed for 0W40 and you put 20W75 in it, the engine won't be happy. Even though it got mineral oil. With dot you have the exact specification you can and should put in.
Great to hear! That wasn't my question though 🙂 I havn't experienced the wandering bite point in my last 5 sets of Shimano brakes either and like them a lot.
Lotta options:
1. Piston crooked in bore. Sometimes this is obvious, other times not so much. Remedies: Push the piston back in straight by pushing on a couple sides. Worse case: install a pad on the opposite side and secure a pad spacer. Pump the brake to force the stuck piston to move and reset it after.
2. Debris. Typically happens after a good amount of use. Solutions: pump the piston out enough to clean it thoroughly. If the brake's had a helluva life, consider a caliper rebuild kit. When the caliper is split make sure to clean the bore and seal groove well with a soft bristle brush. A firm toothbrush generally works a treat.
3. Corrosion, primarily due to salts but pad dust can cause it as well over years, specifically sintered metallic pads. Caliper rebuild is in order, and you'll want to use something firmer than a toothbrush to break up the oxide layer. Plastic scraping tools are the way to go as you do not want to mess up the seal seat or bore dimensions.
4. Tolerance stack issue. If the caliper uses phenolic or ceramic pistons, the issue is more than likely an under sized bore or seal seat. Metal pistons may be oversized. This would be time to contact tech support.
EDIT: One more:
5. Contamination. IE the incorrect fluid finds its way into the system, either by bleeding it with an incompatible fluid (DOT fluid in a mineral oil brake and vice versa) or using a bleed kit that was used with both fluids. This will require a complete brake rebuild or replacement.
Couple things. If the brake is bled and maintained properly, there should be no risk of rupturing the diaphragm in the reservoir when resetting the caliper pistons. That becomes an issue when folx try to improve the lever feel by overfilling the system. The piston seals (MC & Caliper) shouldn't fail due to this simply because they're designed to handle a lot more pressure.
Can a system be overfilled by applying too much positive pressure using a syringe before closing the system? Can you share some tips on how not to overfill?
We get it Primoz you don't like mineral oils. Sheesh mate, everytime
This debate can go on forever
The spec for bike brakes is quite simple: Shimano / Magura Royal Blood etc.
When you use the stuff the manufacturer recommends the issues are vastly reduced. There are more options for different brands of DOT4/5.1 because the market is HUUUGE. Very few oil producers even know bikes exist so they're not going to produce a tiny quantity of fluid because someone doesn't want to buy a bottle with Shimano on the side. Whether you like it or not its easier to do what each brake manufacturer recommends.
I've seen both the seal and the retaining cap blown/cracked/damaged.
That is exactly the #1 way a brake gets overfilled, 2nd to not resetting the pistons prior to starting a bleed. Easy to remedy. Take the hose off the syringe. Set the master cylinder up in the manufacturer's recommended bleed position and attach the hose to the bleed port. Push the caliper pistons back into their bores and this will burp out the excess fluid. You may want to wrap the hose in a bit of paper towel or a rag in case there's a lot of fluid in the system and it overflows the hose. Remove hose, install bleed port screw, clean with isopropyl (DOT) or a bit of soapy water (Mineral). Set the brake up as per instructions. Always RTFM a couple times with any brake. A lot of tips & tricks can be deduced from what the manufacturer recommends for service and it'll provide at least something indicating a flow path through the caliper and master cylinder. That bit there is a VERY valuable bit of insight.
That's good intel. Being a long time SRAM user those are two things I have a habit of doing. Over pressurize the crap out of the system to get that crisp bite point and resetting pistons without opening the system before bleeds. Never had issues across their entire MTB range. Turns out not all brake systems are that forgiving.
Can second this, I ran multiple sets of overpressurized codes for a couple of seasons and never had an issue with burst diaphrams but have seen countless shimano/magura/etc with that issue. Blew my buddies mind when I bled/over pressured his trashed Code's. Fortunately don't have to deal with that now that I'm on Hope lol.
Most brake systems don't need to be over pressurized to make them feel OK haha. I've done that with a ton of Sram brakes, it's bassically a habit now when ever I bleed them, and I've not seen any issues at the master cylinder. I haven't really tried it with brakes from other brands since their feel was generally better IMO. I wish sram would drop the G2 or 4 piston level brakes and just have the 2 piston levels, the codes / DB8, and the Mavens.
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