Nerding out on Brakes shall we? Not another tech deraliment

FaahkEet
Posts
27
Joined
3/12/2023
Location
Falls Church, VA US
6/14/2024 6:30am
Jakub_G wrote:
Are you running rotor the wrong way around for a reason? Something I noticed, it was normal on trial bikes but not on any bike that...

Are you running rotor the wrong way around for a reason? Something I noticed, it was normal on trial bikes but not on any bike that only goes forward.

Just took the wheel in for a new hub and didn't bother checking, good spotting I'll switch it around today. If it's toasted from running that way I have one from another wheel to throw on. Thanks for letting me know!

1
6/14/2024 7:26am
FaahkEet wrote:
Currently the only new things in the brake setup on the bike are the A4 calipers, pads, and the NSB adapter. Everything else are the previous...

Currently the only new things in the brake setup on the bike are the A4 calipers, pads, and the NSB adapter. Everything else are the previous SRAM bits. It's been working great for the past 8 or 9 months. 

I'm only replacing the rear line because the outer sheath got torn away a bit by another bike's flat pedal pin. Otherwise I'd keep it this way as there have been no other issues.

For the replacement line its some long line I picked up from Ali express a while back. Used it for another bike's hydraulics and it held. The Hayes compatible banjos seems to fit in and the other end the Code barb fits/doesn't fall out. I'm not using Hayes specific olive/banjo just compatible, the dry-fit looked good but of course the real test will be fully connecting that up and filling with fluid. So crossing fingers there. 

But if it weren't for that damage from someone carelessly jamming their bike in the shuttle bed I wouldn't be doing the new line, not yet anyway, and continue happily using the SRAM hose and olive/barb.

As far as the oring pulsing, its very hard to see because there's very little space. Its just that the SRAM olive is like half a mm too small to fully cover the port. The pictures should show how very little room there is between the olive and caliper to see the oring.

Pics of the A4 caliper/SRAM olive/bolt, and the generic Hayes compatible future olive/barb in its package.

Huge thanks for all that detailed info.  Def seems like you've thought it through.  8-9 months is encouraging.  May hunt for some bargain calipers and pick...

Huge thanks for all that detailed info.  Def seems like you've thought it through.  8-9 months is encouraging.  May hunt for some bargain calipers and pick up some pads and give it a go.  Would be a pretty inexpensive and painless way to experiment.

You seem pretty mechanically adept, but I've got a brake line with the outer sheath that's been knicked pretty good from catching between the frame and the edge of skinny in a fall.  It's been fine for a long time.  I don't think the rubber sheath adds much to the stiffness of the hose, but it's on my 5010 that doesn't see a lot of long or steep descending so I haven't noticed any degradation in performance or looked into whether it matters. 

Sugru for something hard and a little electrical tape to keep the sugru in place over time.  I'll replace the hose eventually.  Probably would have already except for stupid internal routing.

Maybe somebody on here has some knowledge to drop on brake hoses re whether the outer rubber sheath does anything other than protect the inner hose?

HexonJuan wrote:
The outer sheath is for protection, mostly, but does contribute to some of the stiffness of the line. It's worthwhile to really peek at the Kevlar...

The outer sheath is for protection, mostly, but does contribute to some of the stiffness of the line. It's worthwhile to really peek at the Kevlar wrap under it. If there are cut threads, swap it out. Hose ruptures aren't a fun party to get an invite to. The neu and impruved Park internal routing kit has a handy turnbuckle style barb (silver piece on the right) that threads into both hose ends simultaneously, making the process of swapping out housing & brake lines a snap. Well worth the price of admission for that piece alone. Closeup of the various cable ends included in the Park Tool IR-1.3 Internal Cable Routing Kit., click to enlarge

Thanks for the response.  I looked at the kevlar hose really, really close and it seemed fine.  

FaahEet - I'd change the hose out ASAP if you are seeing actual leakage.

2
TheFBI
Posts
19
Joined
5/20/2024
Location
London GB
6/14/2024 1:04pm

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

8
AndehM
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Location
El Granada, CA US
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810th
6/14/2024 1:12pm

Thanks!  I was messing with a spare lever I had off a MC assembly I ruined, and figured it was something along those lines, but wasn't sure how much to move the ball.  On 1 of my bikes, the rear lever always seems to have more throw than the front (or either front or rear on the other bike).

1
TheFBI
Posts
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Joined
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Location
London GB
6/14/2024 1:26pm
AndehM wrote:
Thanks!  I was messing with a spare lever I had off a MC assembly I ruined, and figured it was something along those lines, but wasn't...

Thanks!  I was messing with a spare lever I had off a MC assembly I ruined, and figured it was something along those lines, but wasn't sure how much to move the ball.  On 1 of my bikes, the rear lever always seems to have more throw than the front (or either front or rear on the other bike).

Here's a side by side. Factory setting on the left vs the throw reduced on the right. 

3
6/14/2024 1:46pm

This has to have been discussed somewhere sometime, but Faahkeet's backwards rotor made me wonder. Why are rotor arms the way that they are? Seems like the intuitive direction would be the other way around.

HexonJuan
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Location
WI US
6/14/2024 3:05pm
This has to have been discussed somewhere sometime, but Faahkeet's backwards rotor made me wonder. Why are rotor arms the way that they are? Seems like...

This has to have been discussed somewhere sometime, but Faahkeet's backwards rotor made me wonder. Why are rotor arms the way that they are? Seems like the intuitive direction would be the other way around.

The answer is torque. With the arms pointing towards the direction path, the brake track is expanded outward, putting the brake track in tension and consistent with the pads. Reverse it causes the opposite. Obviously not a huge deal at normal low temps as anyone who's done an abubaca can attest, but once the material heats up to upper limits the story changes.

3
6/14/2024 4:39pm

The rumour and Patent about shimano's new 6 piston Brakes is true, Shimano Rep reckons about 12 months away - He said Maven's are Currently putting pressure on them as Even shimano fans are converting.

Hes not sure on How the brake lineup will look but he believe's They are going to do what Sram currently is, which means it will probably be a new Saint Brake and working alot on lever feel instead of 'stick in spokes' while trying to keep the simple Shimano setup which is hard to balance

2
FaahkEet
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Location
Falls Church, VA US
6/14/2024 5:04pm
Thanks for the response.  I looked at the kevlar hose really, really close and it seemed fine.   FaahEet - I'd change the hose out ASAP if...

Thanks for the response.  I looked at the kevlar hose really, really close and it seemed fine.  

FaahEet - I'd change the hose out ASAP if you are seeing actual leakage.

Yeah, planning to do that once I get back from the beach. 

It actually wasn't too bad, at least there didn't seem to be much more than a little sheen around the tear but this week when I last went out there was a lot of gunk on the hose and a significant build up on top of the tear so I think its become worse. I didn't expect the outer layer tear to leak but must a very small cut or puncture that isn't visible. 

Got the rear rotor back on the right way, but that's a lesson to always spot check all parts for whatever you took into the shop!

1
AndehM
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El Granada, CA US
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810th
6/14/2024 8:09pm
TheFBI wrote:
Here's a side by side. Factory setting on the left vs the throw reduced on the right. 

Here's a side by side. Factory setting on the left vs the throw reduced on the right. 

Damn, so I just did this on both my sets.  It's a massive difference in feel for just a tiny adjustment, and my one odd feeling lever definitely had the ball further out.  I changed all my levers to just barely clear the pivot, like you did, and the ones on my bike with fresher pads feel like Saints now lol.  The worn out semi-metallics on the other bike feel more normal, but still much sharper than before.

2
Ploutre
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Location
FR
6/15/2024 12:14am
Shinook wrote:
So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet. on the boutique side, has anyone...

So this thread and the Intends not working on my bike has me considering some options I haven’t tried yet.

on the boutique side, has anyone tried 612 or Beringer Br4ve? The former seems to be very close to Maximas and the latter seems to use larger pistons all around (18/18/10.15)

I am Cura 4 curious too. How are they with the FCS levers? Is there a lot of dead stroke and how quickly does power come on? They seemed to do well in the Enduro test but only with aftermarket pads 

Digging up an old post, but I've been running 612 calipers (the original prototype Trickstuff-looking ones, not the cybertruck-looking ones that you can now get) with Trickstuff DRT levers for more than a year. Very short lever throw, power very close to the Maximas I have on the other bike, but with a much better lever feel.

The prototypes have at least one drawback, can't fit a rotor bigger than 2.15-2.2mm (2.3 fits, but rubs constantly until the pads are worn down a bit), while the new ones are designed with a 2.3mm rotor in mind. Had a problem of a piston actually chipping the caliper (and therefore leaking), and Felix sent me a caliper back. Bleeding is exactly like Trickstuff brakes, same pads as Maximas, and same 2x16 and 2x17 pistons.

One thing I noticed compared to the Maximas, is that the pads tend to be worn down in a wedge shape, while it doesn't happen on the Maximas. And that, no matter the care I give to align the calipers, both front and rear (with Power+ pads). Not sure if it's down to the flex in the caliper, or how the pads are setup in the caliper or some other reason I can't think of... The new calipers are waaay stiffer, and also way bigger. I thought the 612 and Maximas were similar but when I swapped the leaking caliper with the Maxima, I had to grind down the adapter. The Maximas are way bigger than 612.

 

Also, don't bother trying the Trickstuff lever / Cura4 caliper setup if you haven't ... Eeeeextra long lever throw, extra soft bite point (literally couldn't tell when I was biting the rotors, other than the feeling I was slowing down), and then monstrous power all at once. Just impossible to safely ride. Oh and the Cura4 caliper doesn't handle the heat great ... They were running HOT, way hotter than 612 or MXA calipers, and a pain in the arse to setup on the bike with 220/223 rotors. First time I managed to get Power+ pads howling from the heat !

2
hairybarnyard
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Perth GB
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2702nd
6/16/2024 6:12am
AndehM wrote:
Thanks!  I was messing with a spare lever I had off a MC assembly I ruined, and figured it was something along those lines, but wasn't...

Thanks!  I was messing with a spare lever I had off a MC assembly I ruined, and figured it was something along those lines, but wasn't sure how much to move the ball.  On 1 of my bikes, the rear lever always seems to have more throw than the front (or either front or rear on the other bike).

TheFBI wrote:
Here's a side by side. Factory setting on the left vs the throw reduced on the right. 

Here's a side by side. Factory setting on the left vs the throw reduced on the right. 

Just wanted to say thanks for the tip on the "unofficial" throw adjustment. I was pretty happy with them before but they feel perfect now after winding them in a bit. It also changes the limits of the reach adjustment and allows them to be run closer to the bar.

2
Slavid666
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Santa Rosa, CA US
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1154th
6/16/2024 8:22am
TheFBI wrote:
Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix : 1. Remove the lever - two...

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

4
TheFBI
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Location
London GB
6/16/2024 9:00am Edited Date/Time 6/16/2024 9:02am
TheFBI wrote:
Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix : 1. Remove the lever - two...

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting the contact the normal way with the small T9 torx would "reset" the lever. Meaning that turning the contact adjuster one way then the other back to the same initial position would somehow restore some lever throw... before pumping up again on the next long descent. Really confusing. I've backed off the ball head screw inside a little bit and then reset the pistons and bled them again to correct the fluid volume and seems all good now 👍

3
Slavid666
Posts
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Location
Santa Rosa, CA US
Fantasy
1154th
6/16/2024 9:19am
TheFBI wrote:
Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix : 1. Remove the lever - two...

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

TheFBI wrote:
Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting...

Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting the contact the normal way with the small T9 torx would "reset" the lever. Meaning that turning the contact adjuster one way then the other back to the same initial position would somehow restore some lever throw... before pumping up again on the next long descent. Really confusing. I've backed off the ball head screw inside a little bit and then reset the pistons and bled them again to correct the fluid volume and seems all good now 👍

Crap, I was hoping that maybe you had better luck that I did! 😂 maybe there’s a way to maximize the adjustment without it closing the port and effectively making it a closed system. Gonna have to play around with this some more…

1
Hamburgi
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Starrkirch-Wil CH
Fantasy
3632nd
6/16/2024 10:02am

Hello guys!

 

i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread.

im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4

since i have them, i have problems with the brake point. After no help from Hope itself, and some declined warranty from the Hope distributor in Switzerland i changed the levers by myself... i've done the craziest bleed procedure that i've ever done....

After that bite point etc. was pretty good. Today i rode some easy Bikepark.  What happened, brake point wandering, sometimes pull close to the bar. I really dont know what i should do anymore. Im close to sendig the whole brake to the swiss distributor, with a letter, you can have this crap back...

 

4
TheFBI
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Location
London GB
6/16/2024 11:43am

Anyone know why the SRAM 17p adapter which is designed for going 203-220 has a note saying "will not work on 203 fork" ? The post mount spacing is the same front and rear right? Is it just SRAM being dicks to Fox?

1
NicoZesty96
Posts
232
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8/21/2014
Location
portogruaro, VE IT
6/16/2024 12:23pm
Hamburgi wrote:
Hello guys!   i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread. im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4 since i have...

Hello guys!

 

i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread.

im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4

since i have them, i have problems with the brake point. After no help from Hope itself, and some declined warranty from the Hope distributor in Switzerland i changed the levers by myself... i've done the craziest bleed procedure that i've ever done....

After that bite point etc. was pretty good. Today i rode some easy Bikepark.  What happened, brake point wandering, sometimes pull close to the bar. I really dont know what i should do anymore. Im close to sendig the whole brake to the swiss distributor, with a letter, you can have this crap back...

 

everytime i hear something like this i take a step back into purchasing them, let's see if someone here can help

1
HexonJuan
Posts
89
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
6/16/2024 2:13pm
Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

TheFBI wrote:
Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting...

Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting the contact the normal way with the small T9 torx would "reset" the lever. Meaning that turning the contact adjuster one way then the other back to the same initial position would somehow restore some lever throw... before pumping up again on the next long descent. Really confusing. I've backed off the ball head screw inside a little bit and then reset the pistons and bled them again to correct the fluid volume and seems all good now 👍

Slavid666 wrote:
Crap, I was hoping that maybe you had better luck that I did! 😂 maybe there’s a way to maximize the adjustment without it closing the...

Crap, I was hoping that maybe you had better luck that I did! 😂 maybe there’s a way to maximize the adjustment without it closing the port and effectively making it a closed system. Gonna have to play around with this some more…

Hayes says they set the brakes up from the factory with the primary seal as close to the timing port holes as possible. Since both of you experienced the same symptom, it sounds like your adjustments pushed the seal past the ports, effectively closing off the system. Fiddly (but the only) way to restore it would be to set the brake up like you're gonna bleed it and push fluid through while adjusting the contact point. You'll need to find the point where fluid can get pushed out of the reservoir. I'd imagine you could gently push on the caliper syringe while turning the adjuster counter clockwise to determine where that 'open' point is. I'd also think having a bleed cup at the lever instead of a syringe would make that a bit easier to see as well.

1
HexonJuan
Posts
89
Joined
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Location
WI US
6/16/2024 2:37pm
Hamburgi wrote:
Hello guys!   i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread. im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4 since i have...

Hello guys!

 

i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread.

im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4

since i have them, i have problems with the brake point. After no help from Hope itself, and some declined warranty from the Hope distributor in Switzerland i changed the levers by myself... i've done the craziest bleed procedure that i've ever done....

After that bite point etc. was pretty good. Today i rode some easy Bikepark.  What happened, brake point wandering, sometimes pull close to the bar. I really dont know what i should do anymore. Im close to sendig the whole brake to the swiss distributor, with a letter, you can have this crap back...

 

This will sound trite, but are you using the Hope bleed kit? It sounds like air is the issue. You can easily check that in the same way you can with Shimano and TRP. Do not open the system at all. Rotate the levers on the handlebar so the reservoir caps are up, parallel to the ceiling. Pump the brakes, pause, pump the brakes, pause. Repeat a handful of times. Note where the lever is biting. If they firm up, rotate the levers 180 degrees from where they're at, so those reservoir caps are facing down and parallel to the ground. Return to the pump/pause routine. If the bite point increases, you have air in the system, specifically the master cylinder/reservoir. Hope's bleed process isn't exactly the most refined/clean process, certainly, but it works if you work slowly and deliberately.

2
6/16/2024 6:05pm
Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

TheFBI wrote:
Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting...

Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting the contact the normal way with the small T9 torx would "reset" the lever. Meaning that turning the contact adjuster one way then the other back to the same initial position would somehow restore some lever throw... before pumping up again on the next long descent. Really confusing. I've backed off the ball head screw inside a little bit and then reset the pistons and bled them again to correct the fluid volume and seems all good now 👍

Slavid666 wrote:
Crap, I was hoping that maybe you had better luck that I did! 😂 maybe there’s a way to maximize the adjustment without it closing the...

Crap, I was hoping that maybe you had better luck that I did! 😂 maybe there’s a way to maximize the adjustment without it closing the port and effectively making it a closed system. Gonna have to play around with this some more…

Thanks for sharing this. 

I think Code RSCs don’t get the credit they deserve because SRAM brake history, not boutique, etc.  One reason I’ve stuck with them is the functional contact point adjust.  

Theoretically, I agree with Hayes position that you should never adjust the master cylinder to create dead zone in the master cylinder and more lever throw.  

But, especially as pads wear and the piston seals don’t quite keep up, it’s nice to advance the pistons without the rotor in the caliper to tighten things up.  I do it several times over the life of the pad.

I’m not good enough to get them feeling the same immediately afterwards.  But using contact point adjust lets me have the same reach and bite point over the life of the pads.

Maybe most people keep pressure on the levers to keep them between their resting point and the bite point when not braking.  But I like letting them return to their resting point.  If I just used reach adjust to create the same bite point, it would bother me.  

Anybody playing this game with Dominions?  Can you do it?  Is it a pain?  If I designed a brake, I’d have reach adjust require a tool (I set and never touch again) and contact point adjust be toolless.

 

hairybarnyard
Posts
17
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Location
Perth GB
Fantasy
2702nd
6/16/2024 10:22pm
TheFBI wrote:
Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix : 1. Remove the lever - two...

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

TheFBI wrote:
Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting...

Yes just came on here to report this issue today at the bikepark haha. Pumped up too much after a long descent. Even weirder : adjusting the contact the normal way with the small T9 torx would "reset" the lever. Meaning that turning the contact adjuster one way then the other back to the same initial position would somehow restore some lever throw... before pumping up again on the next long descent. Really confusing. I've backed off the ball head screw inside a little bit and then reset the pistons and bled them again to correct the fluid volume and seems all good now 👍

How many turns did you have to back it out roughly? 

Either way thanks for the heads up, will give it another bleed and try find the sweet spot with the timing port.

We should probably compile all the dominion tech tips into a separate post/thread for reference...

WMullins
Posts
27
Joined
12/1/2022
Location
Blind Bay, BC CA
6/16/2024 10:53pm

Hey guys,

Slightly less boutique question here lol. Partly out of curiosity and partly due to my inability to pass up a good deal on marketplace, I swapped out my Code RSC's with the Cascade cams in them for a set of Shimano XT levers mated to Zee calipers with MTX Gold pads. I actually haven't had a chance to ride them yet but they felt solid after a good "marshy style" gravity bleed. Currently, they are set up on a set of centreline 200's and I'm wondering how thick of a rotor I could get away with? I love a small amount of deadstroke and some fade resistance wouldn't hurt either so I'm thinking some TRP or HS2's to replace the centrelines. I saw some earlier posts regarding this but didn't see much in the way of specific experiences/impressions. Anyways, if anyone has given this a shot I would love to hear about it!

29
Posts
116
Joined
3/9/2020
Location
AT
6/16/2024 11:04pm

I ran XT levers with Saint calipers and 2mm Galfer discs for a long time so you should get away with that, but not sure about 2.3. 

boozed
Posts
236
Joined
6/11/2019
Location
AU
6/16/2024 11:40pm
29 wrote:
I ran XT levers with Saint calipers and 2mm Galfer discs for a long time so you should get away with that, but not sure about...

I ran XT levers with Saint calipers and 2mm Galfer discs for a long time so you should get away with that, but not sure about 2.3. 

Are Saint calipers any wider than XT (M8120)? On my XTs, with the pistons fully retracted, brand new 1.95 mm Hayes rotors make permanent contact with brand new Shimano metallic pads, so 2.3 mm might work but only with worn or thinner pads.

Hamburgi
Posts
5
Joined
4/12/2023
Location
Starrkirch-Wil CH
Fantasy
3632nd
6/17/2024 2:21am
Hamburgi wrote:
Hello guys!   i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread. im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4 since i have...

Hello guys!

 

i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread.

im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4

since i have them, i have problems with the brake point. After no help from Hope itself, and some declined warranty from the Hope distributor in Switzerland i changed the levers by myself... i've done the craziest bleed procedure that i've ever done....

After that bite point etc. was pretty good. Today i rode some easy Bikepark.  What happened, brake point wandering, sometimes pull close to the bar. I really dont know what i should do anymore. Im close to sendig the whole brake to the swiss distributor, with a letter, you can have this crap back...

 

HexonJuan wrote:
This will sound trite, but are you using the Hope bleed kit? It sounds like air is the issue. You can easily check that in the...

This will sound trite, but are you using the Hope bleed kit? It sounds like air is the issue. You can easily check that in the same way you can with Shimano and TRP. Do not open the system at all. Rotate the levers on the handlebar so the reservoir caps are up, parallel to the ceiling. Pump the brakes, pause, pump the brakes, pause. Repeat a handful of times. Note where the lever is biting. If they firm up, rotate the levers 180 degrees from where they're at, so those reservoir caps are facing down and parallel to the ground. Return to the pump/pause routine. If the bite point increases, you have air in the system, specifically the master cylinder/reservoir. Hope's bleed process isn't exactly the most refined/clean process, certainly, but it works if you work slowly and deliberately.

Yes i'm using the Hope bleed kit.

i've mounted the brake on a empty handlebar on my bikestand.

i rotated the caliper and the lever in every direction, and pumped the lever.

 

then i left the reservoir on the brake, put a zip tie on the lever and left it so for 24h

 

have done the same procedure as i mentioned above, again.

thats what i wrote earlier, i have never done such an immense of work, to bleed a brake, with like zero  result. Or better said, it fails on the trails

1
AndehM
Posts
149
Joined
5/7/2018
Location
El Granada, CA US
Fantasy
810th
6/17/2024 6:38am
TheFBI wrote:
Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix : 1. Remove the lever - two...

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

Yeah, experienced the same thing yesterday riding with my slow-ass brother (and dragging brakes).  Pumped up the lever extremely quickly.  Anyone bother to measure the factory setting before we started messing with it?

HexonJuan
Posts
89
Joined
6/10/2015
Location
WI US
6/17/2024 6:51am
Hamburgi wrote:
Hello guys!   i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread. im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4 since i have...

Hello guys!

 

i really need your help! Someone helped me earlier with this thread.

im running the new Hope Brakes tech4 v4

since i have them, i have problems with the brake point. After no help from Hope itself, and some declined warranty from the Hope distributor in Switzerland i changed the levers by myself... i've done the craziest bleed procedure that i've ever done....

After that bite point etc. was pretty good. Today i rode some easy Bikepark.  What happened, brake point wandering, sometimes pull close to the bar. I really dont know what i should do anymore. Im close to sendig the whole brake to the swiss distributor, with a letter, you can have this crap back...

 

HexonJuan wrote:
This will sound trite, but are you using the Hope bleed kit? It sounds like air is the issue. You can easily check that in the...

This will sound trite, but are you using the Hope bleed kit? It sounds like air is the issue. You can easily check that in the same way you can with Shimano and TRP. Do not open the system at all. Rotate the levers on the handlebar so the reservoir caps are up, parallel to the ceiling. Pump the brakes, pause, pump the brakes, pause. Repeat a handful of times. Note where the lever is biting. If they firm up, rotate the levers 180 degrees from where they're at, so those reservoir caps are facing down and parallel to the ground. Return to the pump/pause routine. If the bite point increases, you have air in the system, specifically the master cylinder/reservoir. Hope's bleed process isn't exactly the most refined/clean process, certainly, but it works if you work slowly and deliberately.

Hamburgi wrote:
Yes i'm using the Hope bleed kit. i've mounted the brake on a empty handlebar on my bikestand. i rotated the caliper and the lever in...

Yes i'm using the Hope bleed kit.

i've mounted the brake on a empty handlebar on my bikestand.

i rotated the caliper and the lever in every direction, and pumped the lever.

 

then i left the reservoir on the brake, put a zip tie on the lever and left it so for 24h

 

have done the same procedure as i mentioned above, again.

thats what i wrote earlier, i have never done such an immense of work, to bleed a brake, with like zero  result. Or better said, it fails on the trails

All well and good, but what I was advising was a diagnostic method, not a bleed. I'm unsure if that was clear or not. Bite point changing drastically on trail is very typical of a bleed issue (as long as they're not Shimano), and if it's happening with both brakes I'm more inclined to suspect that. The test I gave was to determine if that was the case. You don't even have to take the brakes off the bike to perform it, indeed it's better if you don't as the change will be more pronounced. If it turns out that there is air in the system, then we have to look at your bleeding methodology. Like my dad told me the first time I tried adjusting engine timing, it doesn't matter how many times you do something if you keep doing it wrong. That stuck with me. 

TheFBI
Posts
19
Joined
5/20/2024
Location
London GB
6/17/2024 7:16am
TheFBI wrote:
Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix : 1. Remove the lever - two...

Made some progress with the Hayes Dominion excessive dead throw issue! For anyone with who's interested, here's the fix :

1. Remove the lever - two torx screws top and bottom, then wiggle it out.

2. Loosen the small grub screw (green arrow).

3. Tighten the ball-head screw as far as you can without it rubbing (red arrow)

4. Tighten the grub screw again and reinstall.

Doing this reduced the dead throw in the lever by 12mm. Still slightly more throw than my Codes, but massively improved. I suspect mine were set up wrong from the factory and the ball-head screw was backed off too far. 

Enjoy

Slavid666 wrote:
About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power...

About 6 pages back I had talked about my trick to reduce dead throw. This was exactly it, I was planning on writing up a power point with instructions but after spending some time up in the sierras with this done, I would highly advise against it. My understanding is that is disrupts the port timing of the reservoir and the piston. 
 

The issue that I had was the brakes would feel great but as they would heat up the throw would get less and less and less until the pads were clamping on the rotors without and input from myself. Three times I had to stop and burp the system at the calipers as my brakes were locking up. Granted this was at higher altitude, but as soon as I got back I reset, bled and have had no issues since. To test my theory I backed off the lever plunger 1/4 of a turn at a time and found that if you go close to where you have yours set you can push fluid through the system from the lever syringe, it’s effectively blocked. 
 

ymmv.

AndehM wrote:
Yeah, experienced the same thing yesterday riding with my slow-ass brother (and dragging brakes).  Pumped up the lever extremely quickly.  Anyone bother to measure the factory...

Yeah, experienced the same thing yesterday riding with my slow-ass brother (and dragging brakes).  Pumped up the lever extremely quickly.  Anyone bother to measure the factory setting before we started messing with it?

I just split the difference by eye between the before and after in this photo, did a bleed, and so far no pump-up.

1

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