general Outside+ discussions / topics

sspomer
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Boise, ID US
11/17/2022 12:31pm

since team rumors isn't the best place to discuss all the stuff that goes on w/ outside+ / PB / cyclingtips / BRAIN / layoffs/ paywalls etc, i figured i'd start a separate thread for all that news/gossip.

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i'm not a trailforks subscriber, but someone sent me this (down below). they were an "early adopter," so they bought in for lifetime enrollment for a guaranteed lifetime monthly fee. they recently received this free "upgrade" to the full outside+ program with trailforks. i have heard (and not confirmed) that this kind of subscription upgrade is a way to legally void a guaranteed-price subscription contract. (by accepting, does one agree to new terms and conditions w/o reading the fine print, thus voiding the contract?). this would allow the ability to increase subscription prices to all existing users. any legal experts here?

this upgrade program should definitely boost outside+ subscription numbers via trailforkers (who may not actually care about having outside+). is upping sub #'s like this an effort to help secure more investment?

trailforks is a rad/dialed product and seems like something actually worth paying for. i'd imagine it's one of the best things going w/ the whole outside+ acquisition, too.

2
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One Ghost
Posts
36
Joined
8/1/2009
Location
Mukilteo, WA US
11/17/2022 12:54pm

Something I noticed in one of the emails from Outside was that they will continue to pursue their subscription-only services or something to that effect. I read it as "we are taking everything behind a paywall"

I also see PB becoming their hub for everything bicycle related that is consumer-facing and keeping BRAIN industry-facing. PB will go to a paywall (finally) and BRAIN will just stay the same. 

nskerb
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Location
Kelso, WA US
11/17/2022 1:06pm

The staff at pinkbike must be shitting their pants wondering who is and isn't on the chopping block

2
Primoz
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SI
11/17/2022 1:36pm Edited Date/Time 11/17/2022 1:39pm

" have heard (and not confirmed) that this kind of subscription upgrade is a way to legally void a guaranteed-price subscription contract. (by accepting, does one agree to new terms and conditions w/o reading the fine print, thus voiding the contract?). this would allow the ability to increase subscription prices to all existing users. any legal experts here?"

This would be a hard d*ck move. I received this e-mail too and promptly ignored it as I don't frequent any Outside pages, so it's of little use to me (I rarely visit Pinkbike, don't really visit the rest of the group sites). I intentionally used the last call option with the cheaper price. I would be (will be?) on the fence if the price increases as we use Trailforks quite a lot when we are on trips outside the country, we've done two Finale Ligure trips purely on Trailforks for example and it's awesome for that.

Regarding trailforks and Outside+, I wouldn't be surprised if Pinkbike was at the top of their list for acquisition exactly because of Trailforks. There is nothing like it out there. 

There was mention of Pinkbike also having layoffs, anyone prominent or is it more of a behind the scenes kinda deal? The new presenters for the Academy are... different to say the least.

1
sspomer
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Boise, ID US
11/17/2022 1:47pm

i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors.

anyone know if radek and karl leaving is true? heard they both left. maybe they've bee gone for a while? not sure what their jobs were post-acquisition, but seems like a big deal if they're not around anymore.

 

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Mwood
Posts
53
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8/19/2009
Location
Bay Area, CA US
11/17/2022 4:16pm

The whole outside thing got me fired up and now this trailforks trickiery. Just emailed customer service to confirm my early adopter status didn't change. 

It's a bummer what's happening at pinkbike, can't we get some kinda historical status injunction from the MTB hall of fame? I got a good media bud up in BC and don't see his content as often cus its on pb and i swore it off a year or two ago. 


Cyclingtips was radddddd such good in-depth content. MTBR got bought out awhile ago. 

At least #littermag still lives on..... long live Vital! 

11/17/2022 4:28pm

CyclingTips, which is also owned by Outside, abruptly fired a bunch of fairly prominent editors/writers a couple days ago. These were established journalists with reliable audiences. That does not bode well for anyone lower down on the hierarchy anywhere in the Outside portfolio.

Between Outside and Discovery, the near future of mountain biking media seems pretty shaky.

Canadaka
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4
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8/25/2010
Location
CA
11/17/2022 4:56pm

Upgrading Trailforks Pro users to also have access to Outside+ is not a tactic to somehow covertly increase the price of existing TF Pro subscribers. There are no plans to change the subscription price for these existing subscriptions, early adoptors included, they are valuable users to the community. Technically none of that would be required to increase the price of a subscription though, there is no legal hurdle. However on Apple and Google if the increase is more than a small amount, the user has to opt-in to the price change. So it's a very risky business move to increase the recurring subscription price. Something like Netflix or your cable company that does the billing themselves and holds your credit card, they can do it, but Trailforks doesn't actually store any of the users payment data, it's with the Appstores and their rules.

The free upgrade is more about exposing more users to the other benefits of the Outside network. If you find no use to the upgrade, then no worries, just continue using Trailforks as you have been doing if you're a subscriber.

5
yetirich
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11
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12/10/2018
Location
Littleton, CO US
11/17/2022 6:57pm

I also received that email this week. I use Trailforks a lot when traveling out of state. If they change the price or TOS then their whole platform will implode. If PB goes behind a paywall, that will implode also. I still receive the print version of BRAIN and enjoy the long articles that are published. Outside is circling the drain for many reasons but they keep pushing the supply chain issues and can’t figure out what they are talking about. 

Primoz
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Location
SI
11/17/2022 11:15pm
Canadaka wrote:
Upgrading Trailforks Pro users to also have access to Outside+ is not a tactic to somehow covertly increase the price of existing TF Pro subscribers. There...

Upgrading Trailforks Pro users to also have access to Outside+ is not a tactic to somehow covertly increase the price of existing TF Pro subscribers. There are no plans to change the subscription price for these existing subscriptions, early adoptors included, they are valuable users to the community. Technically none of that would be required to increase the price of a subscription though, there is no legal hurdle. However on Apple and Google if the increase is more than a small amount, the user has to opt-in to the price change. So it's a very risky business move to increase the recurring subscription price. Something like Netflix or your cable company that does the billing themselves and holds your credit card, they can do it, but Trailforks doesn't actually store any of the users payment data, it's with the Appstores and their rules.

The free upgrade is more about exposing more users to the other benefits of the Outside network. If you find no use to the upgrade, then no worries, just continue using Trailforks as you have been doing if you're a subscriber.

Pretty sure I bought my subscription via the webpage (on my computer. I know, shocking, right? Tongue ), so no appstores were involved. There is a payment process in the middle of it, so there is a point to what you're saying.

As for 'there are no plans', your writing seems awfully concrete about a future unknown. Got first hand info on that?

3
11/18/2022 2:19am Edited Date/Time 11/18/2022 2:38pm

Hmm, i recently canceled my O+ subscription because it had no benefit to me. Plus I was pissed because there was a better deal on "Trailforks Pro only" which was the initial reason for the subscription.

I somehow thought I was an earlyadopter. Checking back I had a subscription for 14€ anually that was/I canceled in 2022 somehow, and than I remember chosing O+ for 36$/year (For the first year).

Still any of this is reasonable for what Trailforks offers. If you really use it.

11/18/2022 3:51am

I canceled outside when they folded beta.  I’ve kept my Trailforks subscription cause they’ve honored early bird pricing and the statistics on there are pretty much impossible to get elsewhere.  If they change the price (not about price I just want my deal honored) then I’ll drop it and just get friends to send me info as needed.

Karabuka
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253
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Location
SI
11/18/2022 4:06am
sspomer wrote:
i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors. anyone know if radek and karl leaving is...

i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors.

anyone know if radek and karl leaving is true? heard they both left. maybe they've bee gone for a while? not sure what their jobs were post-acquisition, but seems like a big deal if they're not around anymore.

 

(64) Radek Burkat | LinkedIn

His linkedin profile says he left Pinkbike in October 21, but the "About" page lists him as a founder https://www.pinkbike.com/about/ He also used to be listed a developer and he obviously isn't anymore. No mention of Karl, but his linkedin still has PB listed a present job. 

 

sspomer
Posts
3060
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Location
Boise, ID US
11/18/2022 7:29am
Canadaka wrote:
Upgrading Trailforks Pro users to also have access to Outside+ is not a tactic to somehow covertly increase the price of existing TF Pro subscribers. There...

Upgrading Trailforks Pro users to also have access to Outside+ is not a tactic to somehow covertly increase the price of existing TF Pro subscribers. There are no plans to change the subscription price for these existing subscriptions, early adoptors included, they are valuable users to the community. Technically none of that would be required to increase the price of a subscription though, there is no legal hurdle. However on Apple and Google if the increase is more than a small amount, the user has to opt-in to the price change. So it's a very risky business move to increase the recurring subscription price. Something like Netflix or your cable company that does the billing themselves and holds your credit card, they can do it, but Trailforks doesn't actually store any of the users payment data, it's with the Appstores and their rules.

The free upgrade is more about exposing more users to the other benefits of the Outside network. If you find no use to the upgrade, then no worries, just continue using Trailforks as you have been doing if you're a subscriber.

thank you. that's extremely helpful and makes sense.

ryanb
Posts
4
Joined
7/1/2020
Location
Hamilton, MT US
11/18/2022 10:01pm

Someone just wants to claim the number of outside+ subscribers is increasing to their boss / investors. 

2
Pedal4life
Posts
262
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6/19/2014
Location
San Diego, CA US
11/21/2022 9:49am

IMO  The people running these media groups are tired of getting smoked out on the trails & they're taking they're piss poor riding ability against us all.

3
Stewyeww
Posts
46
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6/10/2021
Location
CA
11/23/2022 2:02pm

Is there more garbage on pinkbike lately because there is jobs on the line and everyone is trying to prove there worth, or is it just me?

1
Primoz
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SI
11/23/2022 2:15pm

I think it's just the standard corpo strategy of more content more better. Look at their offerings on the YouTube channel, the video production they run is huge. So is the roster. 

2
motomike
Posts
41
Joined
10/12/2009
Location
NC US
11/23/2022 7:04pm
sspomer wrote:
i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors. anyone know if radek and karl leaving is...

i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors.

anyone know if radek and karl leaving is true? heard they both left. maybe they've bee gone for a while? not sure what their jobs were post-acquisition, but seems like a big deal if they're not around anymore.

 

Also worth mentioning is Outside owns Gaia.  If you merge Trailforks with Gaia, shewww buddy that’s something. 

2
mtbman99
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57
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8/30/2016
Location
CA
11/24/2022 9:45am

I always thought the main reason for outside purchasing pb was aimed at getting their hands on trailforks. 

2
mickey
Posts
29
Joined
2/19/2010
Location
Roanoke, VA US
11/24/2022 3:57pm Edited Date/Time 11/24/2022 4:02pm
sspomer wrote:
i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors. anyone know if radek and karl leaving is...

i would think the data captured from trailforks alone has significant value to the right kind of investors.

anyone know if radek and karl leaving is true? heard they both left. maybe they've bee gone for a while? not sure what their jobs were post-acquisition, but seems like a big deal if they're not around anymore.

 

motomike wrote:

Also worth mentioning is Outside owns Gaia.  If you merge Trailforks with Gaia, shewww buddy that’s something. 

Yes, that’s a “prime synergy” Outside Inc wanted to leverage on the NFT portion of their peak late capitalist fever dream, The Outerverse. Insert some indecipherable boilerplate about “earning” things with your gps track that would unlock blockchain enabled something or another, blah blah blah.

Also, the BRAIN website hasn’t loaded for me for the last 2 days…

11/25/2022 9:11pm
bicycleretailer.com has been blank for 0ver 5 days. not simply "not loading, but physically dns pointer turned off.
2
FullSend
Posts
75
Joined
7/14/2021
Location
DE
11/28/2022 5:10pm

The Pinkbike servers are down. Not a good sign…

PisgahGnar
Posts
69
Joined
6/30/2021
Location
Hendersonville, NC US
11/28/2022 5:58pm

It’s been down a few different times today. Thought it was me at first because my modem also died today, but no it seems to be down for real. 

SilentG
Posts
1
Joined
8/5/2019
Location
Prescott Valley, AZ US
11/28/2022 6:22pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2022 6:52pm

IT guy here...not for PB but in my day job as a humble govt public servant.

The issue looks like DNS name resolution so the Internet basically can't locate the server with the site.

That sort of a thing only happens if your DNS hosting company is having an issue (Internet cannot look you up), you are being attacked to a level that the Internet can't reach your server (doesn't look like the case since the name to IP cannot be resolved on 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8, or 9.9.9.9), or someone effed up (accidently or deliberately) and removed the records that would be used to find the site.

What is a bit odd is that the site went offline around 4p MST or so and is still unresolvable. If the records for name resolution were messed up that is a quick recovery (10-15 minutes) once it is caught assuming one wasn't locked out of the DNS account or something esoteric like that.

The Internetz is showing that the domain records were updated today so another possibility would be that the domain was hijacked and pointed to nowhere essentially by clearing the records, that sounds like aluminum foil type stuff but it can and does happen.

7
11/28/2022 8:39pm Edited Date/Time 11/28/2022 8:40pm
SilentG wrote:
IT guy here...not for PB but in my day job as a humble govt public servant. The issue looks like DNS name resolution so the Internet...

IT guy here...not for PB but in my day job as a humble govt public servant.

The issue looks like DNS name resolution so the Internet basically can't locate the server with the site.

That sort of a thing only happens if your DNS hosting company is having an issue (Internet cannot look you up), you are being attacked to a level that the Internet can't reach your server (doesn't look like the case since the name to IP cannot be resolved on 1.1.1.1, 8.8.8.8, or 9.9.9.9), or someone effed up (accidently or deliberately) and removed the records that would be used to find the site.

What is a bit odd is that the site went offline around 4p MST or so and is still unresolvable. If the records for name resolution were messed up that is a quick recovery (10-15 minutes) once it is caught assuming one wasn't locked out of the DNS account or something esoteric like that.

The Internetz is showing that the domain records were updated today so another possibility would be that the domain was hijacked and pointed to nowhere essentially by clearing the records, that sounds like aluminum foil type stuff but it can and does happen.

That's some grade-A web nerd explaining and I appreciate that insight and said with love for web nerds.

 

6
Masjo
Posts
153
Joined
11/25/2014
Location
Ancaster CA
11/29/2022 4:14am

7am est and it's still down, that's a pretty long time to be offline. Outside still works along with CyclingTips so it's specifically targeting PB.

 

(As an aside, if you go to Outside online and browse their 'endurance' sites, CyclingTips and PB do not show up but Beta still does...)

Marcus J
Posts
5
Joined
7/14/2017
Location
SE
11/29/2022 4:49am

Works fine for me from Sweden, all day.

metadave
Posts
714
Joined
2/15/2016
Location
CA
11/29/2022 7:04am

It wasn't working for me yesterday for a few hours, and then I got through once. This morning it's back down. 

#vital4lyfe #livelongandvital

2
11/29/2022 7:24am
From Reddit: client hold This status code tells your domain's registry to not activate your domain in the DNS and as a consequence, it will not resolve. It is an uncommon status that is usually enacted during legal disputes, non-payment, or when your domain is subject to deletion.

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