But why? Weight power and size wise shimano had the best package until the dji bike was announced. Most bosch bikes are 25kg plus with a...
But why? Weight power and size wise shimano had the best package until the dji bike was announced. Most bosch bikes are 25kg plus with a 625 wh battery and have extremely long chainstays. Bosch just gets credit because it was the most powerful/popular motor.
The reason many smaller companies fitted a shimano motor on their first ebikes is because they could design more freely and choose from third party batteries. Bosch only sells its system and I'm not sure if they even would have bothered during the corona boom years with smaller companies.
Sure most people just care about power and battery size but when you focus on the getting down part of the ride and handling many Bosch bikes are too heavy and have weird geo. Or they handle fine and are light like the orbea wild but have a non removable battery.
If shimano would have dealt with the rattle I would have gotten a shimano bike as my last purchase.
Why would brands be swapping away from shimano when you think it was the best? Bosch Always dominates motor showdowns, their gen 4 stuff is great, sure its got a little motor clutch rattle but its reliable, strong & efficient with good firmware/software that, if you never update it, will still be good. thats the bosch life.
Those motors were/are underpowerd, unreliable(my 4 in 6 months), noisey, Drains battery awfully quick comapred to others and just a pain overal
My LBS Used to get nearly every shimano motor back they sold within a few months with issues - thats why they stopped selling them.
p.s I only recently sold our merida(new one with rubbish shimano) & selling my reign because my new marin with bosch is damn good.
Well I didn't say they are the best but you're clearly a bosch fanboy and a shimano hater. I just point out the differences between the systems and power/range is not everything but the whole package of the bike. For buying my current bike I was torn between the Orbea Wild, Rise and Specialized Levo and chose the Levo because the Rise and Wild Rattle and have non-removable batteries. Which motor is the most powerful or has the biggest range isn't that relevant to me because I'm not that heavy or unfit. For me its about the whole package: good geometry and light weight for good handling in the dh come first, the motor comes second because for me it doesn't matter that much how fast I'm getting up there. I just ruled out the current crop of light emtbs because the motors are too weak to allow me riding alpine single trail uphill.
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a...
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
Totally agree—I’m hopeful that some of the cool stuff featured at EuroBike will deliver, but it’ll be awhile before we can get our hands on it. I’m also not in a rush to own first generation tech that is still working out the bugs.
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a...
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
Totally agree—I’m hopeful that some of the cool stuff featured at EuroBike will deliver, but it’ll be awhile before we can get our hands on it...
Totally agree—I’m hopeful that some of the cool stuff featured at EuroBike will deliver, but it’ll be awhile before we can get our hands on it. I’m also not in a rush to own first generation tech that is still working out the bugs.
Exactly. The DJI is this year's Pinion w/transmission. It gets a lot of public interest at release then will disappear until next year's new thing. I just don't see mainstream manufactures integrating new tech anywhere as fast as it's developed. If anything it's developed too fast for them to commit to one "new" tech when something else is around the corner. Big corporations just don't pivot quickly into uncertainty, especially after coming off a few years of terrible business.
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a...
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
It's not so much about DJI delivering, its about the possibility of them delivering which makes the other motor brands up their game, as mentioned in videos, those 'other brands' were at the DJI booth trying to find out stuff about it... DJI make quality products... you'd be naive to think they wont make a good MTB motor.
@tabletop84we Had multiple shimano motor'd bikes at once and they were not great, Im no fanboy of anything but I will support brands that make good products and will call out brands making under performing products, are you not the same? do you accept lower quality or less performance products because "yeah! thats my brand!!"?????
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a...
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
It's not so much about DJI delivering, its about the possibility of them delivering which makes the other motor brands up their game, as mentioned in...
It's not so much about DJI delivering, its about the possibility of them delivering which makes the other motor brands up their game, as mentioned in videos, those 'other brands' were at the DJI booth trying to find out stuff about it... DJI make quality products... you'd be naive to think they wont make a good MTB motor.
@tabletop84we Had multiple shimano motor'd bikes at once and they were not great, Im no fanboy of anything but I will support brands that make good products and will call out brands making under performing products, are you not the same? do you accept lower quality or less performance products because "yeah! thats my brand!!"?????
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always flock to the strongest motor with the big batteries and always ride turbo. So obviously the failure rate of the motor will be higher. They also expect that an electric motor can be ridden like a gas powered vehicle (riding turbo until the battery is almost or completely empty every ride and wondering why the battery ages faster). Yeah, overall Bosch is probably the all-round system out there right now for that riding style. But not everyone rides like that. There are many people riding with other motors and have no issue.
You see and probably will continue to see Bosch as they provide a "safe" and mostly up to date system (gen 5 is quieter,bigger more advanced battery,toptube display and wireless controler,though "only 85nm") .
For a brand today there are just too many options and it's much easier to choose this and not go for something they dont know and may be unreliable/not have a support network ...
Choosing the "wrong" system could potentially kill a bike as many riders today choose the E system before the bike (looks,geo,suspension...).
You can ask Yeti,Transition,SC,Evil who made some of the best handling ebikes (e160,Bullit,Repeater,Epocalypse) only to see them in the warehouse collecting dust due to the ep8 with the 630wh battery.
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always...
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always flock to the strongest motor with the big batteries and always ride turbo. So obviously the failure rate of the motor will be higher. They also expect that an electric motor can be ridden like a gas powered vehicle (riding turbo until the battery is almost or completely empty every ride and wondering why the battery ages faster). Yeah, overall Bosch is probably the all-round system out there right now for that riding style. But not everyone rides like that. There are many people riding with other motors and have no issue.
Ya they all ride in jeans with no helmets and handle bar speakers blaring nickleback while chuffing darts too!!
each and every time I crest the top of a climb on my eeb I shake my head and laugh at how great it is. Playing with house money after my first day on an eMTB, they’re so sick!
I’ve never expected a bike to last more than two years, so maybe that’s the issue, but my eebs have been right there with every other thing in this hobby. Unsure if Shimano are the worst, but certain they’re more fun than any pedal bike (DH bike + chairlift is the only thing that’s better than eeb in 2024).
some of you wouldn’t be happy in heaven. each and every time I crest the top of a climb on my eeb I shake my head and...
some of you wouldn’t be happy in heaven.
each and every time I crest the top of a climb on my eeb I shake my head and laugh at how great it is. Playing with house money after my first day on an eMTB, they’re so sick!
I’ve never expected a bike to last more than two years, so maybe that’s the issue, but my eebs have been right there with every other thing in this hobby. Unsure if Shimano are the worst, but certain they’re more fun than any pedal bike (DH bike + chairlift is the only thing that’s better than eeb in 2024).
You guys are insane.
Soo fun. My latest shimano e8000 just rolled over 10k km's after the first one died after 1800kms. Despite that and the e8000 only being 70nm im not in a rush to go out and get the latest and greatest. The bike still brings out tge smiles every day. I rode gondi laps for 4+ months waiting for the shimano motor replacement . The bike doesnt owe me anything at this point. Its probaly the bike ive had the longest out of the 30 something mtb's ive had and its done everything from commuting , gravel, xc, dh and freeride and all quite comfortably. With 165r/180f its truly the best one bike quiver i could ask for.
That being said im looking at options and most likely not considering shimano. Currently looking at bafangs options. I see some bafang m820 bikes with 150/170 weing 20kg with 460w battery . 75nm and theres an battery extender option. Well sealed, nice power transfer with a dialed tourque sensor, and rebuildable. On paper it blows away any of the latest batch of sl bikes
I just picked up a new to me Kenevo SL. Only been on one short ride, but I can see why everyone says, "just try it before judging". The problem here is that e-mtb's are not legal in the national forest.
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always...
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always flock to the strongest motor with the big batteries and always ride turbo. So obviously the failure rate of the motor will be higher. They also expect that an electric motor can be ridden like a gas powered vehicle (riding turbo until the battery is almost or completely empty every ride and wondering why the battery ages faster). Yeah, overall Bosch is probably the all-round system out there right now for that riding style. But not everyone rides like that. There are many people riding with other motors and have no issue.
Well, if you want to compare eebs to motos Bosch is like Honda/Yamaha and Shimano is like Kawasaki/Suzuki. Average Joes and those with more mechanical sympathy don't have a ton of issues with Zooks and Kawi's, but faster riders have plenty of issues with them, so most people would consider Yamaha and Honda objectively more reliable. Bosch bikes sell for a premium price compared to Shimano, so the comparison is valid there too.
KTM Group bikes would be like the Pinnion MGU's and DJI's of the market. Exciting new stuff, but reliability could be a crapshoot.
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always...
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always flock to the strongest motor with the big batteries and always ride turbo. So obviously the failure rate of the motor will be higher. They also expect that an electric motor can be ridden like a gas powered vehicle (riding turbo until the battery is almost or completely empty every ride and wondering why the battery ages faster). Yeah, overall Bosch is probably the all-round system out there right now for that riding style. But not everyone rides like that. There are many people riding with other motors and have no issue.
Ya they all ride in jeans with no helmets and handle bar speakers blaring nickleback while chuffing darts too!!
Thats actually funny because if I ride in the alps I don't see expensive ebikes that much on the trails or in Bikeparks. They are mostly parked in front of 'cabins' with a restaurant that can be reached by fireroads or asphalt roads and are ridden by pensionists or couples and upnto 50% sag (yes I saw a guy riding an Enduro ebike without a helmet and approximately this amount of sag). And they pedal with maybe 30rpm and shift with the motor. So of course they need big batteries and strong motors. Also in germany ebikes are subsidized via your employer so many people who don't really need an expensive emtb bought one anyway during the corona boom. EMTBs basically became the SUV of the bicycle world.
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always...
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always flock to the strongest motor with the big batteries and always ride turbo. So obviously the failure rate of the motor will be higher. They also expect that an electric motor can be ridden like a gas powered vehicle (riding turbo until the battery is almost or completely empty every ride and wondering why the battery ages faster). Yeah, overall Bosch is probably the all-round system out there right now for that riding style. But not everyone rides like that. There are many people riding with other motors and have no issue.
Thats actually funny because if I ride in the alps I don't see expensive ebikes that much on the trails or in Bikeparks. They are mostly...
Thats actually funny because if I ride in the alps I don't see expensive ebikes that much on the trails or in Bikeparks. They are mostly parked in front of 'cabins' with a restaurant that can be reached by fireroads or asphalt roads and are ridden by pensionists or couples and upnto 50% sag (yes I saw a guy riding an Enduro ebike without a helmet and approximately this amount of sag). And they pedal with maybe 30rpm and shift with the motor. So of course they need big batteries and strong motors. Also in germany ebikes are subsidized via your employer so many people who don't really need an expensive emtb bought one anyway during the corona boom. EMTBs basically became the SUV of the bicycle world.
Another reason i miss living in BC. They subsdize an ebike purchase. Stats show it does work though. I think it was around 70% of the people that used the subsidy werent cyclists before purchase and the province has seen about the same 70% reduction in auto mileage among ebike purchasers. I'd imagine the bulk of participants were in the lower mainland/vancouver area and they can ride year round. I went from 12k km in my truck to 5k as well.
I mean if the subsidies makes people replace commuting by car with a bike I'm all for it but it also made people overbiked around here. Like there are plenty of barely ridden emtbs on the used market that never saw an mtb trail.
I mean if the subsidies makes people replace commuting by car with a bike I'm all for it but it also made people overbiked around here...
I mean if the subsidies makes people replace commuting by car with a bike I'm all for it but it also made people overbiked around here. Like there are plenty of barely ridden emtbs on the used market that never saw an mtb trail.
Thatll be good for the misers out there that want one but just cant open their wallets
Hey guys, two things id love some feedback on - has anyone tried a cube stereo hybrid 0ne55? Full powered Bosch, 750WH battery - 22.5kg total weight with tubes and double downs, im very interested in buying one but i have no experience with cube bikes.
Secondly - why do you think it is that manufacturers aren’t making 20kg e-bikes with 3/4 powered motors and 400wh easily replaceable batteries? Big alpine loop, take a second battery in a pack, at a trail centre keep it in the car and do a pit stop?
Hey guys, two things id love some feedback on - has anyone tried a cube stereo hybrid 0ne55? Full powered Bosch, 750WH battery - 22.5kg total...
Hey guys, two things id love some feedback on - has anyone tried a cube stereo hybrid 0ne55? Full powered Bosch, 750WH battery - 22.5kg total weight with tubes and double downs, im very interested in buying one but i have no experience with cube bikes.
Secondly - why do you think it is that manufacturers aren’t making 20kg e-bikes with 3/4 powered motors and 400wh easily replaceable batteries? Big alpine loop, take a second battery in a pack, at a trail centre keep it in the car and do a pit stop?
find a dealer that does a proper rebuild when the bike arrives, also one that can measure tolerances properly
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a...
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
If you look at DJI's portfolio of products and technology it is maybe only second to apple in terms of manufacturing and engineering. They produce a lot more then just hobby drones at this point. My concern is that this will be a hobby project for them and not get the same support and development as their other product lines.
Hey guys, two things id love some feedback on - has anyone tried a cube stereo hybrid 0ne55? Full powered Bosch, 750WH battery - 22.5kg total...
Hey guys, two things id love some feedback on - has anyone tried a cube stereo hybrid 0ne55? Full powered Bosch, 750WH battery - 22.5kg total weight with tubes and double downs, im very interested in buying one but i have no experience with cube bikes.
Secondly - why do you think it is that manufacturers aren’t making 20kg e-bikes with 3/4 powered motors and 400wh easily replaceable batteries? Big alpine loop, take a second battery in a pack, at a trail centre keep it in the car and do a pit stop?
I only read reviews but they are overall really positive but the rear end has a lot of flex. So if you're a heavier, agressive rider the rear tire will rub on the tires quite a bit: https://fotos.emtb-news.de/p/59904
Why would brands be swapping away from shimano when you think it was the best?
Bosch Always dominates motor showdowns, their gen 4 stuff is great, sure its got a little motor clutch rattle but its reliable, strong & efficient with good firmware/software that, if you never update it, will still be good. thats the bosch life.
Those motors were/are underpowerd, unreliable(my 4 in 6 months), noisey, Drains battery awfully quick comapred to others and just a pain overal
My LBS Used to get nearly every shimano motor back they sold within a few months with issues - thats why they stopped selling them.
p.s I only recently sold our merida(new one with rubbish shimano) & selling my reign because my new marin with bosch is damn good.
Well I didn't say they are the best but you're clearly a bosch fanboy and a shimano hater. I just point out the differences between the systems and power/range is not everything but the whole package of the bike. For buying my current bike I was torn between the Orbea Wild, Rise and Specialized Levo and chose the Levo because the Rise and Wild Rattle and have non-removable batteries. Which motor is the most powerful or has the biggest range isn't that relevant to me because I'm not that heavy or unfit. For me its about the whole package: good geometry and light weight for good handling in the dh come first, the motor comes second because for me it doesn't matter that much how fast I'm getting up there. I just ruled out the current crop of light emtbs because the motors are too weak to allow me riding alpine single trail uphill.
It seems to me that a whole lot of people are very trusting that DJI is going to deliver on their claims. See Tesla for a refence of BS corporate claims.
I hope it happens; I really do. But that is yet to be seen and either way it's a minimum of 2 years out from the US market and probably much further out to have it implemented in to one of your favorite brands.
Advancements will continue rapidly, that is for certain.
Totally agree—I’m hopeful that some of the cool stuff featured at EuroBike will deliver, but it’ll be awhile before we can get our hands on it. I’m also not in a rush to own first generation tech that is still working out the bugs.
Exactly. The DJI is this year's Pinion w/transmission. It gets a lot of public interest at release then will disappear until next year's new thing. I just don't see mainstream manufactures integrating new tech anywhere as fast as it's developed. If anything it's developed too fast for them to commit to one "new" tech when something else is around the corner. Big corporations just don't pivot quickly into uncertainty, especially after coming off a few years of terrible business.
It's not so much about DJI delivering, its about the possibility of them delivering which makes the other motor brands up their game, as mentioned in videos, those 'other brands' were at the DJI booth trying to find out stuff about it...
DJI make quality products... you'd be naive to think they wont make a good MTB motor.
@tabletop84 we Had multiple shimano motor'd bikes at once and they were not great, Im no fanboy of anything but I will support brands that make good products and will call out brands making under performing products, are you not the same? do you accept lower quality or less performance products because "yeah! thats my brand!!"?????
Sure sounds like it’s “Shimano, ride or die!”
The problem is that ebikes mostly are ridden by people who are a bit older, heavier and maybe come from a moto/petrolhead background. So they'll always flock to the strongest motor with the big batteries and always ride turbo. So obviously the failure rate of the motor will be higher. They also expect that an electric motor can be ridden like a gas powered vehicle (riding turbo until the battery is almost or completely empty every ride and wondering why the battery ages faster). Yeah, overall Bosch is probably the all-round system out there right now for that riding style. But not everyone rides like that. There are many people riding with other motors and have no issue.
You see and probably will continue to see Bosch as they provide a "safe" and mostly up to date system (gen 5 is quieter,bigger more advanced battery,toptube display and wireless controler,though "only 85nm") .
For a brand today there are just too many options and it's much easier to choose this and not go for something they dont know and may be unreliable/not have a support network ...
Choosing the "wrong" system could potentially kill a bike as many riders today choose the E system before the bike (looks,geo,suspension...).
You can ask Yeti,Transition,SC,Evil who made some of the best handling ebikes (e160,Bullit,Repeater,Epocalypse) only to see them in the warehouse collecting dust due to the ep8 with the 630wh battery.
Ya they all ride in jeans with no helmets and handle bar speakers blaring nickleback while chuffing darts too!!
some of you wouldn’t be happy in heaven.
each and every time I crest the top of a climb on my eeb I shake my head and laugh at how great it is. Playing with house money after my first day on an eMTB, they’re so sick!
I’ve never expected a bike to last more than two years, so maybe that’s the issue, but my eebs have been right there with every other thing in this hobby. Unsure if Shimano are the worst, but certain they’re more fun than any pedal bike (DH bike + chairlift is the only thing that’s better than eeb in 2024).
You guys are insane.
Soo fun. My latest shimano e8000 just rolled over 10k km's after the first one died after 1800kms. Despite that and the e8000 only being 70nm im not in a rush to go out and get the latest and greatest. The bike still brings out tge smiles every day. I rode gondi laps for 4+ months waiting for the shimano motor replacement . The bike doesnt owe me anything at this point. Its probaly the bike ive had the longest out of the 30 something mtb's ive had and its done everything from commuting , gravel, xc, dh and freeride and all quite comfortably. With 165r/180f its truly the best one bike quiver i could ask for.
That being said im looking at options and most likely not considering shimano. Currently looking at bafangs options. I see some bafang m820 bikes with 150/170 weing 20kg with 460w battery . 75nm and theres an battery extender option. Well sealed, nice power transfer with a dialed tourque sensor, and rebuildable. On paper it blows away any of the latest batch of sl bikes
I just picked up a new to me Kenevo SL. Only been on one short ride, but I can see why everyone says, "just try it before judging". The problem here is that e-mtb's are not legal in the national forest.
Well, if you want to compare eebs to motos Bosch is like Honda/Yamaha and Shimano is like Kawasaki/Suzuki. Average Joes and those with more mechanical sympathy don't have a ton of issues with Zooks and Kawi's, but faster riders have plenty of issues with them, so most people would consider Yamaha and Honda objectively more reliable. Bosch bikes sell for a premium price compared to Shimano, so the comparison is valid there too.
KTM Group bikes would be like the Pinnion MGU's and DJI's of the market. Exciting new stuff, but reliability could be a crapshoot.
Thats actually funny because if I ride in the alps I don't see expensive ebikes that much on the trails or in Bikeparks. They are mostly parked in front of 'cabins' with a restaurant that can be reached by fireroads or asphalt roads and are ridden by pensionists or couples and upnto 50% sag (yes I saw a guy riding an Enduro ebike without a helmet and approximately this amount of sag). And they pedal with maybe 30rpm and shift with the motor. So of course they need big batteries and strong motors. Also in germany ebikes are subsidized via your employer so many people who don't really need an expensive emtb bought one anyway during the corona boom. EMTBs basically became the SUV of the bicycle world.
Another reason i miss living in BC. They subsdize an ebike purchase. Stats show it does work though. I think it was around 70% of the people that used the subsidy werent cyclists before purchase and the province has seen about the same 70% reduction in auto mileage among ebike purchasers. I'd imagine the bulk of participants were in the lower mainland/vancouver area and they can ride year round. I went from 12k km in my truck to 5k as well.
I mean if the subsidies makes people replace commuting by car with a bike I'm all for it but it also made people overbiked around here. Like there are plenty of barely ridden emtbs on the used market that never saw an mtb trail.
Thatll be good for the misers out there that want one but just cant open their wallets
Hey guys, two things id love some feedback on - has anyone tried a cube stereo hybrid 0ne55? Full powered Bosch, 750WH battery - 22.5kg total weight with tubes and double downs, im very interested in buying one but i have no experience with cube bikes.
Secondly - why do you think it is that manufacturers aren’t making 20kg e-bikes with 3/4 powered motors and 400wh easily replaceable batteries? Big alpine loop, take a second battery in a pack, at a trail centre keep it in the car and do a pit stop?
find a dealer that does a proper rebuild when the bike arrives, also one that can measure tolerances properly
If you look at DJI's portfolio of products and technology it is maybe only second to apple in terms of manufacturing and engineering. They produce a lot more then just hobby drones at this point. My concern is that this will be a hobby project for them and not get the same support and development as their other product lines.
I only read reviews but they are overall really positive but the rear end has a lot of flex. So if you're a heavier, agressive rider the rear tire will rub on the tires quite a bit: https://fotos.emtb-news.de/p/59904
Also the weight is for the lightest models.
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