E-bike talk: not tech rumor derailment

owl-x
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4/8/2024 8:12am

I could stand to burn through my batteries a little more quickly…

sspomer
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4/8/2024 9:59am

just got the norco fluid VLT with bosch sx and it has a rattle on rough descents.

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lando
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4/8/2024 10:13am
sspomer wrote:

just got the norco fluid VLT with bosch sx and it has a rattle on rough descents.

Mine does the same.

brash
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4/8/2024 6:04pm

I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test.

No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in rattle! Annoys me so much.

gbcoke
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4/9/2024 2:31am
Yuroshek wrote:
Heard a rumor over the weekend that Shimano will be upping their EP801 motor via a firmware update in the near future to help compete with...

Heard a rumor over the weekend that Shimano will be upping their EP801 motor via a firmware update in the near future to help compete with Brose (680wh) and the Dyname (700wh) motors. This power game is gonna get interesting fast. 

Shimano's problem is not power anymore since they upped it to 600w on the 801.

The issue is their batteries which use old cells and top at 630wh which is just not compelling enough against the competition.

A bike brand can use a 3rd party battery with higher wh/newer cells but usually it comes with reliability problems.

 

4/9/2024 3:18am
brash wrote:
I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test. No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in...

I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test.

No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in rattle! Annoys me so much.

Doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BkP7Btfyc

And yeah: Bosch SX seems to rattle too. The weird thing that some people claim their EP801 doesn't rattle but I think thats not true. If you ask them at some point they will admit it rattles a bit but they don't care because they are so focused on the trail or something.

4/9/2024 3:28am

Do the EP801 and Bosch CX/SX have the same rattle as the EP8?

EP8 seems to be the worst. Bosch CX seems to be a bit better. Like it rattles only in some scenarios in the Scott Ransom eride for example and also not that much in the orbea Wild. But when I was riding a trek rail it did constantly rattle when coasting down even mildly bumpy terrain. Curiously the old e8000 is less rattle prone than the EP8/801 and even the Bosch CX. In an older ebike it only rattled on very rough sections of trail with big roots or blown out parts. The only popular motors that don't rattle are the fazua, TQ and the brose.

megastoke
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4/9/2024 8:20am

I have a 2023 Orbea Wild with a Bosch CX and the motor rattle is imperceptible to me even on super rough terrain. I don't doubt that it's there, but I'm not noticing it when things get rowdy enough to bring it out. 

What's strange though, is the Wild that I demoed before buying, with the exact same build and motor, rattled like crazy. It was so bad it almost put me off buying the bike, but the LBS insisted that there must be something wrong with the demo bike for it to be that bad.

sspomer
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4/9/2024 8:35am

new mondraker dune light ebike

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/first-ride-mondrakers-dune-returns-li…

norco sight and range vlt live too

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/norco-launches-all-new-high…

i was on a devinci etroy with a bosch cx motor for the last couple months and the rattle was noticeable. not insane but def there.

brash
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4/9/2024 2:48pm

the rattle also depends on your frame too, some almost amplify the noise. My old E8000 was silent.

Somethings gone wrong with Emtb evolution. For example, my first e-mtb was an Alloy Merida E160, E8000 with Fox 36/X2 DD tyres and 500Wh battery was 22.6kg. My current bike (Range VLT) is 30kg with similar gear (albeit 38/DHX2) and a 720Wh battery. The internal battery added a LOT of weight to these things.

 

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brash
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4/9/2024 2:51pm
brash wrote:
I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test. No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in...

I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test.

No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in rattle! Annoys me so much.

tabletop84 wrote:
Doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BkP7Btfyc And yeah: Bosch SX seems to rattle too. The weird thing that some people claim their EP801 doesn't rattle but I think thats...

Doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BkP7Btfyc

And yeah: Bosch SX seems to rattle too. The weird thing that some people claim their EP801 doesn't rattle but I think thats not true. If you ask them at some point they will admit it rattles a bit but they don't care because they are so focused on the trail or something.

Got some cliffs for that video, I don't speak Spanish/German Baxter!

phof
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4/9/2024 3:41pm
brash wrote:
I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test. No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in...

I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test.

No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in rattle! Annoys me so much.

Ochain greatly reduced the rattle on my EP8

4/10/2024 12:28am Edited Date/Time 4/10/2024 12:29am
brash wrote:
I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test. No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in...

I wonder if E-Ochain would eliminate the rattle. Might take my chain off and do a drop test.

No problems with the EP8, besides the f&*in rattle! Annoys me so much.

tabletop84 wrote:
Doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BkP7Btfyc And yeah: Bosch SX seems to rattle too. The weird thing that some people claim their EP801 doesn't rattle but I think thats...

Doesn't work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-BkP7Btfyc

And yeah: Bosch SX seems to rattle too. The weird thing that some people claim their EP801 doesn't rattle but I think thats not true. If you ask them at some point they will admit it rattles a bit but they don't care because they are so focused on the trail or something.

brash wrote:
Got some cliffs for that video, I don't speak Spanish/German Baxter!

Got some cliffs for that video, I don't speak Spanish/German Baxter!

He said that o-chan didn't help at all and I also saw other people write it somwhere. Could be down to kinematics tho. So mentioning which bike its installed on might help.

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4/16/2024 11:02am Edited Date/Time 4/16/2024 11:03am
sspomer wrote:
our light ebike test sesh just went live - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/vital-mtb-test-sessions-lightweight-sl-e-bikes enjoy!

our light ebike test sesh just went live - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/vital-mtb-test-sessions-lightweight-s…

enjoy!

Can anyone read the tea leaves?... How long until these lightweight setups have the same range and power as today's full power setup? 

4/16/2024 11:33am

Nicely done on the test sessions. I like to hear the feedback from different reviewers.

Where are all the Bosch SX equipped bikes? I assumed there would be a number of them hitting the market this year but it's been relatively silent. Production delays? 

Puneta
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4/16/2024 1:08pm

Have any of you experienced a light clicking noise on a Brose (Specialized Levo) motor after you stop pedaling? The bike works fine regardless, but don't know if its normal or something is wrong and needs to be checked. 

4/17/2024 1:43am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2024 1:44am
sspomer wrote:
our light ebike test sesh just went live - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/vital-mtb-test-sessions-lightweight-sl-e-bikes enjoy!

our light ebike test sesh just went live - https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/vital-mtb-test-sessions-lightweight-s…

enjoy!

I just skipped through the video but did you cover the motor rattle? Fazua and TQ don't rattle but for the EP801 some people say it rattles, some claim it doesn't.

jsray
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4/22/2024 1:15pm Edited Date/Time 4/22/2024 1:37pm

guys in the SL test favored the heckler but not the feel in the high speed chatter. wonder if the ochain would help with that. I had a similar issue with the MX bronson, 4 different shocks and 2 wheelsets just couldnt fix it. 

Glory831Guy
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4/23/2024 12:58am
jsray wrote:
guys in the SL test favored the heckler but not the feel in the high speed chatter. wonder if the ochain would help with that. I...

guys in the SL test favored the heckler but not the feel in the high speed chatter. wonder if the ochain would help with that. I had a similar issue with the MX bronson, 4 different shocks and 2 wheelsets just couldnt fix it. 

That's just a negative trait of mini-link bikes. They are initially progressive, then linear. Giants and Ibises feel the same way. Pedaling performance is awesome on climbs, but repeated small bumps on descents can make the suspension feel like it packs up and doesn't react unless your spring rate/air pressure/LSC is perfectly dialed.

tomself
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5/19/2024 7:21am
lando wrote:
Figured I would pose this question again—anyone have experience with the new Bosch SX motor?    Those who have ridden the CX, how customizable are the...

Figured I would pose this question again—anyone have experience with the new Bosch SX motor? 
 

Those who have ridden the CX, how customizable are the power settings using the Bosch app?

I ride a Commencal Meta TR Bosch CX and have mixed feelings on the App overall but I think the mode customization is quite good.  I’m still learning the bike and app but I’m as likely to pull some of the dynamics out of a mode as I am to add anything for where I ride. (TX). The stock settings are quite punchy.

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lando
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5/19/2024 10:02am
lando wrote:
Figured I would pose this question again—anyone have experience with the new Bosch SX motor?    Those who have ridden the CX, how customizable are the...

Figured I would pose this question again—anyone have experience with the new Bosch SX motor? 
 

Those who have ridden the CX, how customizable are the power settings using the Bosch app?

tomself wrote:
I ride a Commencal Meta TR Bosch CX and have mixed feelings on the App overall but I think the mode customization is quite good.  I’m...

I ride a Commencal Meta TR Bosch CX and have mixed feelings on the App overall but I think the mode customization is quite good.  I’m still learning the bike and app but I’m as likely to pull some of the dynamics out of a mode as I am to add anything for where I ride. (TX). The stock settings are quite punchy.

Now that I’ve had the Fluid VLT with the Bosch SX motor for a while, I’ve found the app to be pretty straightforward and easy to use. The custom modes are simple to work with. I found the difference between emtb and turbo to be minimal, though—turbo is just a tad punchier, at least how I have my bike set up (+3 in all settings for emtb and +5 in turbo).

My only gripe with the app is that it requires internet to map a route when I feel like other apps have more reliable gps mapping. But that’s not a huge concern of mine.

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tomself
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5/19/2024 10:19am
lando wrote:
Figured I would pose this question again—anyone have experience with the new Bosch SX motor?    Those who have ridden the CX, how customizable are the...

Figured I would pose this question again—anyone have experience with the new Bosch SX motor? 
 

Those who have ridden the CX, how customizable are the power settings using the Bosch app?

tomself wrote:
I ride a Commencal Meta TR Bosch CX and have mixed feelings on the App overall but I think the mode customization is quite good.  I’m...

I ride a Commencal Meta TR Bosch CX and have mixed feelings on the App overall but I think the mode customization is quite good.  I’m still learning the bike and app but I’m as likely to pull some of the dynamics out of a mode as I am to add anything for where I ride. (TX). The stock settings are quite punchy.

lando wrote:
Now that I’ve had the Fluid VLT with the Bosch SX motor for a while, I’ve found the app to be pretty straightforward and easy to...

Now that I’ve had the Fluid VLT with the Bosch SX motor for a while, I’ve found the app to be pretty straightforward and easy to use. The custom modes are simple to work with. I found the difference between emtb and turbo to be minimal, though—turbo is just a tad punchier, at least how I have my bike set up (+3 in all settings for emtb and +5 in turbo).

My only gripe with the app is that it requires internet to map a route when I feel like other apps have more reliable gps mapping. But that’s not a huge concern of mine.

Heavy rider so I found if I turn anything up in EMTB or Turbo I break chains on the CX. Trying an XTR chain now and hoping it will hold up through a 4 race series over the next 4 months.  I hate that the last update took away the EMTB Short Crank option, at least for me.  I liked the way it responded on my bike with 160mm cranks.

5/19/2024 12:39pm Edited Date/Time 5/19/2024 12:40pm

at 200 ish lbs i found the same, Bosch i broke chains - Love those motors though - Currently have a 24' Reign e+ 2 with the PW-x3 and its been excellent as not quite as much 'hit' and more smoother pedal stroke.

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Uncle Cliffy
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5/19/2024 6:09pm

I’m not totally new to Ebikes, but I recently got a Range VLT. It came with a T-type GX drivetrain.

I’ve wrenched on bikes for a bit off and on, and didn’t really roll with the SRAM electronic hype machine. My other mechanic and riding friends explained to me that it was a good thing, because it’s better at changing gears under power than a cable driven drive drain. It can put the chain in the right spot even under heavy torque. Not only that, when your cables and stuff wear out, it can cause a misshift to a catastrophic failure. I still try to shift it like a normal bike and let off pedals a little bit, but I’m probably doing nothing doing that. Tongue
 

TL;DR I guess electronic shifting can save your Ebikes drivetrain in the long run. 

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tomself
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5/20/2024 8:23am
I’m not totally new to Ebikes, but I recently got a Range VLT. It came with a T-type GX drivetrain. I’ve wrenched on bikes for a...

I’m not totally new to Ebikes, but I recently got a Range VLT. It came with a T-type GX drivetrain.

I’ve wrenched on bikes for a bit off and on, and didn’t really roll with the SRAM electronic hype machine. My other mechanic and riding friends explained to me that it was a good thing, because it’s better at changing gears under power than a cable driven drive drain. It can put the chain in the right spot even under heavy torque. Not only that, when your cables and stuff wear out, it can cause a misshift to a catastrophic failure. I still try to shift it like a normal bike and let off pedals a little bit, but I’m probably doing nothing doing that. Tongue
 

TL;DR I guess electronic shifting can save your Ebikes drivetrain in the long run. 

Good Info!  If I can't get this sorted with a reliable chain solution, swapping the GX and upgrading it to AXS from my Spur and put the SLX on my MetaPower TR may be a solution.  Thanks!

1
gbcoke
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5/20/2024 9:04am

The best solution on the market atm for drivetrain durability seems like Shimano's 11spd linkglide system.

A very robust cassette/chain/der solution. Know a few riders that had constant issues with 12spd dt's (either Sram or Shimano) on their ebikes and for a few months now no issues.

In general it seems strange you see xx / xtr (and all 12 speed groups for that matter) on 22lbs xc race bikes and the same system on 50lbs e-enduro monsters...

 

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