2024 Racing Talk

bizutch
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6/17/2024 10:03am
sspomer wrote:

which is why i thumbs-upped his comment days ago.

was not referring to you sensei. 
And the internet did avoid more drama.
And...scene. Laughing

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Mtbbeta
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6/17/2024 11:14am Edited Date/Time 6/17/2024 11:14am

Every year there is at least one rider that I really want to get a Win.  Last year it was BK who I am still hoping he gets one but this year I am rooting hard for Dak to get that #1.  This might make a good poll and then we could know if we can collectively WILL riders onto the top step! 

Who is it that you want to win?? 

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LePigPen
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6/17/2024 11:36am

Would have loved a Jess win, and not just because it would have been a heater for my fantasy. Sadly it sounds like seasons done. Not sure extent of injury.

Maples hit that extra gear which would of course be a great result. And gotta give credit to what Lachy is doing. Not sure what happened to his VDS? Just off the pace or mechanical/crash?

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bizutch
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6/17/2024 11:39am

Is there anywhere on the internet that the JUST the 2024 Downhill World Cup Calendar exists?
 

dolface
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6/17/2024 11:52am
Mtbbeta wrote:
Every year there is at least one rider that I really want to get a Win.  Last year it was BK who I am still hoping...

Every year there is at least one rider that I really want to get a Win.  Last year it was BK who I am still hoping he gets one but this year I am rooting hard for Dak to get that #1.  This might make a good poll and then we could know if we can collectively WILL riders onto the top step! 

Who is it that you want to win?? 

Also here for Dak, can't wait until he puts it all together for the win!

As a refresher of how far he's come, here's baby Dak from 2018

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uAK-gybkC8

Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grAawCOzVzA

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BGoldstone
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6/17/2024 12:56pm
LePigPen wrote:
Would have loved a Jess win, and not just because it would have been a heater for my fantasy. Sadly it sounds like seasons done. Not...

Would have loved a Jess win, and not just because it would have been a heater for my fantasy. Sadly it sounds like seasons done. Not sure extent of injury.

Maples hit that extra gear which would of course be a great result. And gotta give credit to what Lachy is doing. Not sure what happened to his VDS? Just off the pace or mechanical/crash?

i think she said 4 weeks. that still gives over a month of rehab before worlds and the last 2 rounds.

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dolface
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6/17/2024 1:05pm
LePigPen wrote:
Would have loved a Jess win, and not just because it would have been a heater for my fantasy. Sadly it sounds like seasons done. Not...

Would have loved a Jess win, and not just because it would have been a heater for my fantasy. Sadly it sounds like seasons done. Not sure extent of injury.

Maples hit that extra gear which would of course be a great result. And gotta give credit to what Lachy is doing. Not sure what happened to his VDS? Just off the pace or mechanical/crash?

BGoldstone wrote:

i think she said 4 weeks. that still gives over a month of rehab before worlds and the last 2 rounds.

Yup, she said she was hoping/planning to be back for Worlds on WynTV...

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LePigPen
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6/17/2024 3:44pm

Part of me gets concerned about the quick returns, or general stubbornness of riders but it's just the way of the racer. Minnaar's shoulder. I mean given the nature of what they do it seems like half the field has a nagging injury of some kind through the season. And on the topic of injuries Jess' career has been WILD. Was not familiar with her name until that Snowshoe. And it's just been a rollercoaster for the lass since. Talk about being built different. It's like she takes it as a challenge each time. To go even harder.

And of course such a shame no Jax this season. Hoping for so many good ones to come but this would have been an epic year to watch him battle with the rise of Ronan.

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WhatsUpCountry
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6/17/2024 4:26pm

After this weekend, I don't want to hear anyone talk about making tracks faster and higher average speed to get the times closer together. Especially with the conditions, it was a gnarly and difficult track where the best were able to prove their mettle and stand out from the rest. If you want to build the sport up you need to build the stars of the sport and you can't do that if the top 10 riders are separated by 3.8 seconds like Lenzerheide last year. The runs Pierron & the rest of the podium guys were on another level at VDS.

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Outlawed
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6/17/2024 4:45pm

Maybe I missed it but does anyone know why Connor Fearon has been absent from UCI DH races since Fort Williams?

2
antennae
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6/17/2024 4:54pm Edited Date/Time 6/17/2024 8:25pm

> And gotta give credit to what Lachy is doing. Not sure what happened to his VDS? Just off the pace or mechanical/crash?

I think a mechanical in semi-finals - bent rear rotor. Did a pretty speedy run considering, only just missing the cut (32nd in semis).

1
Stewyeww
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6/17/2024 6:35pm
Outlawed wrote:

Maybe I missed it but does anyone know why Connor Fearon has been absent from UCI DH races since Fort Williams?

Forbidden probably doesn't have the budget to send 2 guys around the world to not make finals

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LePigPen
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6/17/2024 8:10pm
antennae wrote:
> And gotta give credit to what Lachy is doing. Not sure what happened to his VDS? Just off the pace or mechanical/crash? I think a...

> And gotta give credit to what Lachy is doing. Not sure what happened to his VDS? Just off the pace or mechanical/crash?

I think a mechanical in semi-finals - bent rear rotor. Did a pretty speedy run considering, only just missing the cut (32nd in semis).

Lad is still on pace even when things not going perfectly. I'm watching that name next round. Tired of missing that fantasy pick.

Which sadly means RiP to all the Lachy fans, once I pick a rider they're in for a hugey

1
lewzz10
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6/18/2024 1:27am
Outlawed wrote:

Maybe I missed it but does anyone know why Connor Fearon has been absent from UCI DH races since Fort Williams?

Stewyeww wrote:

Forbidden probably doesn't have the budget to send 2 guys around the world to not make finals

Connor came 22nd in finals at his last race (Fort William) but hasn't raced a DH world cup since (DNF in Finale enduro but who didn't).

2
austin-NC
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6/18/2024 8:26am
LePigPen wrote:
Part of me gets concerned about the quick returns, or general stubbornness of riders but it's just the way of the racer. Minnaar's shoulder. I mean...

Part of me gets concerned about the quick returns, or general stubbornness of riders but it's just the way of the racer. Minnaar's shoulder. I mean given the nature of what they do it seems like half the field has a nagging injury of some kind through the season. And on the topic of injuries Jess' career has been WILD. Was not familiar with her name until that Snowshoe. And it's just been a rollercoaster for the lass since. Talk about being built different. It's like she takes it as a challenge each time. To go even harder.

And of course such a shame no Jax this season. Hoping for so many good ones to come but this would have been an epic year to watch him battle with the rise of Ronan.

Sort of the nature of the beast, they really try to get back to racing as soon as they can because if you have a string of injuries with not much results you are sort of sent to obscurity pretty quickly and left without a ride when you contract is up. 

1
bizutch
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6/18/2024 10:55am
Good to see a more varied track compared to the previous 3. Much more slow speed tech. This round's track and condition are going to throw...

Good to see a more varied track compared to the previous 3. Much more slow speed tech. This round's track and condition are going to throw my fantasy picks way off but I'm too lazy to make changes now.

bizutch wrote:

Plenty of sharper turns definitely gives an opportunity for times to separate more than 1/100th of a second.

I meant to say...4 or more seconds. Woohoo

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1
dolface
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6/18/2024 11:01am
Good to see a more varied track compared to the previous 3. Much more slow speed tech. This round's track and condition are going to throw...

Good to see a more varied track compared to the previous 3. Much more slow speed tech. This round's track and condition are going to throw my fantasy picks way off but I'm too lazy to make changes now.

bizutch wrote:

Plenty of sharper turns definitely gives an opportunity for times to separate more than 1/100th of a second.

bizutch wrote:
I meant to say...4 or more seconds. 

I meant to say...4 or more seconds. Woohoo

Sven told Amaury that he thought his winning margin was the modern equivalent of Kovarik's 14+ seconds at Ft. Bill in 2002:

 

 

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bizutch
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6/18/2024 12:12pm
bizutch wrote:

Plenty of sharper turns definitely gives an opportunity for times to separate more than 1/100th of a second.

bizutch wrote:
I meant to say...4 or more seconds. 

I meant to say...4 or more seconds. Woohoo

dolface wrote:
Sven told Amaury that he thought his winning margin was the modern equivalent of Kovarik's 14+ seconds at Ft. Bill in 2002:    

Sven told Amaury that he thought his winning margin was the modern equivalent of Kovarik's 14+ seconds at Ft. Bill in 2002:

 

 

Disagree. 14 Seconds. Been on track with Kovarik & old manned it on track with Pierron.
From the second Amaury hit SRAM team camp at WindRock, it was on. Oobviously the most talented & fastest racer since Gwin. No question. 
But Kovarik did what no one has or will do again.  He was on a 2 season tear that only rear wheels exploding could stop.
Then & now, 2nd is separated from 5th by the EXACT SAME MARGIN. 3 seconds. Gap from 2nd to 8th...7 seconds. Then & Now 
Here's the Roots & Rain direct comparison. Note that the timeline for Kovarik has to demonstrate a 5 second gap.
image-20240618151139-1

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bizutch
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6/18/2024 12:17pm

Human beings don't change much over time.
The time gaps in 2002 from 2nd to 8th being the same as 2024 should be proof enough to put that comparison to bed.

Hope that adds context.

Best Wishes,
Karver & Pierronator FanBoi
 

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LePigPen
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6/18/2024 1:35pm

Still too nuanced. The elite field is way deeper and way more trained now. Just like almost everything else, like supercross. You don't really get to be a semi-muscular party animal who rocks up to the hut and takes first these days.

And a lot of times the tracks are getting short and bike parky to create tighter racing... Although that doesn't describe VDS at all. And then of course modern bikes. Not only are they clearly better BUT they are significantly better for outlier body types.

I'm still DEFINITELY not gonna say those 2 runs are comparable. And I'd still say given the track and conditions there is no run better than Danny's in 2011. But... I could see those being the top 3. It's hard to not be biased on Danny's run given the commentary... But play it on mute and it's still an outrageous ride. It makes no sense. Watch every other rider and they look hungover or something. He made the worlds best look like children.

9
adamdigby
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6/18/2024 3:46pm

I think this 2012 Val di Sole run ranks above the others mentioned. Dry conditions and Aaron blew the field out. Aaron shocked the competition with moto level commitment to training for 2011 so the rest of the field seemed to have picked up the dedication in the off season and all moved up in preparedness but he still put a whooping on them this day.

https://www.rootsandrain.com/event688/2012-jun-3-uci-world-cup-dh-2-val…

LePigPen
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6/18/2024 4:34pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2024 4:37pm

Aaron's wins are crazy. The Windham run. The chainless run. The wet run in MSA. And yes, that one of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEoamTgGhDQ

And of course his 2011 and 2012 record are insane. Has anybody come closer to a perfect season than his 2011? (Ignoring champs we're just gonna ignore champs for now ahem)

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dolface
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6/18/2024 4:39pm
LePigPen wrote:
Aaron's wins are crazy. The Windham run. The chainless run. The wet run in MSA. And yes, that one of course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEoamTgGhDQ And of course his...

Aaron's wins are crazy. The Windham run. The chainless run. The wet run in MSA. And yes, that one of course:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEoamTgGhDQ

And of course his 2011 and 2012 record are insane. Has anybody come closer to a perfect season than his 2011? (Ignoring champs we're just gonna ignore champs for now ahem)

I forgot about the shorts!

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LePigPen
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6/18/2024 6:19pm

I realize the Supercross analogy may not be the best right now. btw Happy belated Father's Day to Jett Lawrence for daddying the entire 450 field.

Also Chase Sexton just did that 'once in a lifetime' last to first kinda ride. So wow my MX analogy REALLY not great this year lol. I dunno maybe it still works...

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1
bizutch
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6/18/2024 8:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2024 8:08pm
LePigPen wrote:
I realize the Supercross analogy may not be the best right now. btw Happy belated Father's Day to Jett Lawrence for daddying the entire 450 field...

I realize the Supercross analogy may not be the best right now. btw Happy belated Father's Day to Jett Lawrence for daddying the entire 450 field.

Also Chase Sexton just did that 'once in a lifetime' last to first kinda ride. So wow my MX analogy REALLY not great this year lol. I dunno maybe it still works...

Moto rocks. You're fine.
Would love to see Jett not being wet nursed & frat boy protected by his older brother.
But still...Chase got loose last week.  Stuffing the forks steeper this week for moto 2 after sight lap was nuts.
Can't imagine seeing Finn drop his forks in the stanchions at the start of a World Cup final after semis.
Dude needs to get out of his own head and as his buddy said last week, stop bitching & just learn to ride what you got.
 

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bizutch
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6/18/2024 8:16pm
adamdigby wrote:
I think this 2012 Val di Sole run ranks above the others mentioned. Dry conditions and Aaron blew the field out. Aaron shocked the competition with...

I think this 2012 Val di Sole run ranks above the others mentioned. Dry conditions and Aaron blew the field out. Aaron shocked the competition with moto level commitment to training for 2011 so the rest of the field seemed to have picked up the dedication in the off season and all moved up in preparedness but he still put a whooping on them this day.

https://www.rootsandrain.com/event688/2012-jun-3-uci-world-cup-dh-2-val…

It's up there for sure. 2nd through 8th stuffed into a 2 second margin.

But Kovarik on flats having to stomp the motorway adds a whole other amazement to his feat.  No other flat pedal racer has beaten the field on a track with that massive of a sprint.  AND...it was a muddy, rainy sprint down that motorway. Imagine how fast that son of bisch was going in the other parts of the track and the power he laid down in the mud on that dead flat motorway.

And all this fitness level crap is getting old. STOP trying to say racers now are fitter, more disciplined, better athletes who drink less.
The pits are full of people getting shlt faced every weekend after wins. Then and now.  The Alien was the only well publicized uber clean racer back when & Gwin now.  

Tomac stomped a mud hole in the cleanest riders on the planet and pounded the beers.  The access to fitness and the commitment to it in the 2000's was just as precise as it is now.  Polar heart rate monitors were used across the board.
VO2 max studies were well into 2 decades of use.  Nathan Rennie stomped the world at Sea Otter on a Yeti DH9 & flats. Mike King did too.  

Nobody in this generation of racer is a better animal than back then.  Lopes, King, Carter, Bootes in slalom...they might still win today for fokks sake if they weren't granddads.  

18
6/19/2024 4:34am
LePigPen wrote:
Still too nuanced. The elite field is way deeper and way more trained now. Just like almost everything else, like supercross. You don't really get to...

Still too nuanced. The elite field is way deeper and way more trained now. Just like almost everything else, like supercross. You don't really get to be a semi-muscular party animal who rocks up to the hut and takes first these days.

And a lot of times the tracks are getting short and bike parky to create tighter racing... Although that doesn't describe VDS at all. And then of course modern bikes. Not only are they clearly better BUT they are significantly better for outlier body types.

I'm still DEFINITELY not gonna say those 2 runs are comparable. And I'd still say given the track and conditions there is no run better than Danny's in 2011. But... I could see those being the top 3. It's hard to not be biased on Danny's run given the commentary... But play it on mute and it's still an outrageous ride. It makes no sense. Watch every other rider and they look hungover or something. He made the worlds best look like children.

TB was still a junior that race & his ride was about 4th for the day. As equally epic ride. Danny & TB were the only 2 that hit the rad drop off gap that day.

bizutch
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6/19/2024 6:40am

"Still too nuanced. The elite field is way deeper and way more trained now. Just like almost everything else, like supercross. You don't really get to be a semi-muscular party animal who rocks up to the hut and takes first these days"

Bullshit. Mik Hannah & GM did the same shit back then they've done in recent years. World Cup racers in the 2000's were as elite as they come.  Don't buy the hype of the drunken sailor stuff.
Napalm at his peak was training more, eating clean & working his butt off to be the best. Please stop acting like training is some art form now versus then.

Elite then is just as elite as now.  "...way more trained" is recency bias & complete fiction.

16
DServy
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6/19/2024 7:31am
bizutch wrote:
"Still too nuanced. The elite field is way deeper and way more trained now. Just like almost everything else, like supercross. You don't really get to...

"Still too nuanced. The elite field is way deeper and way more trained now. Just like almost everything else, like supercross. You don't really get to be a semi-muscular party animal who rocks up to the hut and takes first these days"

Bullshit. Mik Hannah & GM did the same shit back then they've done in recent years. World Cup racers in the 2000's were as elite as they come.  Don't buy the hype of the drunken sailor stuff.
Napalm at his peak was training more, eating clean & working his butt off to be the best. Please stop acting like training is some art form now versus then.

Elite then is just as elite as now.  "...way more trained" is recency bias & complete fiction.

All sports have gotten more professional, especially the non traditional "stick and ball" sports, and because of that the entire field is significantly better than it used to be. Margins are tighter and there's just more "capital from investors" looking for a return on said investment. 

And even if these guys were training just as hard "back then" as they do now, their training wasn't nearly as effective as the sport specific training top level athletes have access to now. A lot of this has to do with advances in sports science and performance, but also the equipment meant to track output and exercise load. Between power meters, improvements in strength training weight formulas, and improvements in understanding of nutrition, athletes now can be much more focused and efficient with their time in the gym and on the bike. Athletes in all disciplines across all sports are just better than they were 10-20 years ago. 

Grand tour times are faster, XC races are closer with more gnarly courses, WC DH winning margins are closer, EDR is still.... Richie Rude.

No one is diminishing the previous generations contribution to the sport, but times have changed and that's just a fact. 

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