World Cup Prize Money Needs to Increase

9/23/2022 3:59pm
In the last B Practice Podcast, we discussed Dakotah Norton’s 3rd place podium at the Val di Sole World Cup, and in particular, his take-home prize money. Hilariously enough, Dak forgot to claim his winnings until we brought it up during the podcast. Hopefully, he has followed up with that because for being 3rd fastest on the day, he earned himself 1,250€, or $1,211 USD.

You might think, “Dang, that isn’t much money for a podium finish at a World Cup.” And I would completely agree. In fact, the UCI only pays prize money for 1st - 10th (per round, with equal pay in XCO and DH, and Elite Men/Women), with first place earning 3,750€ ($3,633) and 10th place earning 200€ ($193).

I have two problems with these facts:
1. The prize money is way too low for professional-level racing. You can find UCI prize money information for all forms of cycling they govern, and the prize money available for 1-10 place does not match the skill required to finish in the top 10.
2. Prize money should be provided for more than the top 10 finishers, at least in Elite categories. If the UCI has decided that 60 Elite Men and 15 Elite Women is the cut-off to race at the elite level, then some compensation should be provided for all riders. You are undeniably a professional rider if you can qualify for a downhill World Cup.

In the podcast, we compared World Cup downhill with AMA Supercross. I know there are plenty of differences between the sports, but in Supercross, all 22 riders who qualify for the main event are compensated, with 22nd place earning $2,000 USD (pulled from 2021 Supplementary Regulations). Additionally, all riders who did not qualify for the main event, but finished the Last Chance qualifier, receive compensation (5th - 22nd place), with last place earning $1,070 USD. Why can’t a similar prize money format be used for downhill World Cups?

Beyond the fact that it takes immense skill to compete at the World Cup level, another angle to look at the situation is that the UCI and, moving forward, Discovery Sports, broadcast downhill to make a profit. That is not their only motivating factor, but it is part of the equation. Without the riders, there is no show. Of course, the live broadcast typically doesn’t show all Elite Men/Women, but it shows way more than the top 10 riders.

Debating prize money in downhill racing is nothing new. Still, as we look towards the future with Discovery taking over broadcasting with promises to grow the sport to new levels, I hope there are more financial reasons for riders to line up between the tape. It’s absurd to me thinking about how much work, sacrifice, risk, and time it took Dakotah to achieve his first podium, and he only made $1,211.
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mntnmrtn
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9/23/2022 5:50pm
This is ridiculous. With prizes like that, they're probably too ashamed to make big cheques to hand out at the medals ceremony, but if more people knew how low the prize money is, I guess they'd have much more bad press about it and justifications to make. Now I'm sorry I don't have a solution, but the UCI probably have the means to give more if each men and women 1st place winner of the DH US open were awarded 15000$us and it was not even televised/streamed online! Thanks for bringing this over to the forums!
2
buckoW
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9/23/2022 7:45pm
How about we crowd fund some prize money here on Vital and give it to the winning athletes after each race? Partner up with Venmo and Cashapp? Then we can do something about it rather than tell others what they should be doing.

Anybody on here know how this could be done or want to set it up?

1
9/23/2022 7:57pm
I really don’t think this is the case at all. Why would bike brands (barely any outside sponsors in mtb) pay for extra winnings for riders they already sponsor and pay bonuses too (and now the competition as well).

I’d much rather that money be allocated for local racing and growing the national and regional series of major mtb countries. One it would make the national and regional series a draw for the top guys and two it could really help someone on the cusp of pro extend their season or decrease their outside financial requirements in a pivotal year.

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3
9/23/2022 8:24pm
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect prize money funding from bike brands or Toyota, that is there choice. I wonder if the UCI even needs to find funding for prize money…

And I completely agree, I’d love to see more funding behind regional/national events. I’d like to believe downhill racing and the UCI is currently in a position that it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and we could grow regional downhill racing while also supporting World Cup level athletes.
5
9/23/2022 8:58pm
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect...
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect prize money funding from bike brands or Toyota, that is there choice. I wonder if the UCI even needs to find funding for prize money…

And I completely agree, I’d love to see more funding behind regional/national events. I’d like to believe downhill racing and the UCI is currently in a position that it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and we could grow regional downhill racing while also supporting World Cup level athletes.
I’m not sure it is. You use the us open as an example for what it should be but that’s also basically one of a few us based brand events for an apparel company that is hugely popular in two sports and has appeal to plenty who don’t ride at all. I get the us open has roots in entry fees paying for prize money but that’s definitely not what got it to over 50 g in prize purses between men and women and all the different events.

I don’t disagree the uci could probably better allocate its funds. But I’d rather see them invest in plenty of other places.

Maybe I’m jaded as I’ve chosen a career that I know pays me much less than what I’m capable of in other fields and am 100 percent ok with that decision. Sure I wish Dak and others nothing but the best when it comes to earning more $$$. But my heart doesn’t exactly bleed for a guy just getting by riding a bike around the world.
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8
9/23/2022 9:53pm
Is there an equivalent for the WCs in road racing? I think that should be our standard for how much the athletes get paid.
If the roadies can put the work in and get first, and then a DHer can put the work in and get first, they should get comparable amounts of money (maybe scaled by viewership? I have no concept for how many people watch road races)
boozed
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9/24/2022 12:37am Edited Date/Time 9/24/2022 12:44am
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is just over US$0.5m, but the total prize pool is US$2.7m and that has to be spread out across all 21 stages and multiple race classifications) and the MTB world cup is probably a good reflection of their relative popularity...

I've never had any sympathy for sportspeople believing they deserve to earn money just because they were blessed with the ability to kick a ball accurately or run fast or whatever so it would be hypocritical of me to treat mountain bikers any differently. The prize money is a reflection of the commercial value of the sport. If that's not good enough, either do it for the enjoyment, or find something else to do that will support you financially.

Making a living from sport has always only ever been for the best of the best anyway, it's not a sensible career choice for normal people, or even most athletes who aren't top tier.


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Mr.Nally
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9/24/2022 1:50am
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect...
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect prize money funding from bike brands or Toyota, that is there choice. I wonder if the UCI even needs to find funding for prize money…

And I completely agree, I’d love to see more funding behind regional/national events. I’d like to believe downhill racing and the UCI is currently in a position that it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and we could grow regional downhill racing while also supporting World Cup level athletes.
You are a little mistaken on how the World Cup prize money system works,

At world cups it's the local organizer that pays the prize money, not the UCI. World Champs is different, there it's the UCI that pay out.

However, the UCI cover all the overall prize money for the season rankings (€10,000 for first place)

But it's local organizers that have to budget for prize money etc... for each individual World Cup round. The problem then is that the UCIs business model is terrible, So blame lies at their feet. The prize money amounts haven't increased in a long time as the burden would fall on the local organizer and would be another reason why less venues would bid for events.

UCI needed to update their business model long ago and work around the taxation issues for each country etc... and pay out better prize money.

From next year the series will be run by ESO(EWS)/Discovery. So we can hope that the prize money situation will improve in the future. Sadly the chances of it improving ASAP are slim. EWS has been around for 10 years now and the prize money is much worse than World Cups. BUT an EWS entry fee is 3 X that of a World Cup (with no cap, unlike World Cups which are capped at €80 for elites and €40 for juniors).

So we'll see how things progress, or regress when the new masters take the reigns.
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mfoga
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9/24/2022 9:33am
Wait so you have to pay to get the race, pay to build the course , pay for all the infrastructure needed and also have to pay the prizes? And you also see people ask why so many places don't want to host races.
7
9/24/2022 10:50am
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect...
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect prize money funding from bike brands or Toyota, that is there choice. I wonder if the UCI even needs to find funding for prize money…

And I completely agree, I’d love to see more funding behind regional/national events. I’d like to believe downhill racing and the UCI is currently in a position that it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and we could grow regional downhill racing while also supporting World Cup level athletes.
Mr.Nally wrote:
You are a little mistaken on how the World Cup prize money system works, At world cups it's the local organizer that pays the prize money...
You are a little mistaken on how the World Cup prize money system works,

At world cups it's the local organizer that pays the prize money, not the UCI. World Champs is different, there it's the UCI that pay out.

However, the UCI cover all the overall prize money for the season rankings (€10,000 for first place)

But it's local organizers that have to budget for prize money etc... for each individual World Cup round. The problem then is that the UCIs business model is terrible, So blame lies at their feet. The prize money amounts haven't increased in a long time as the burden would fall on the local organizer and would be another reason why less venues would bid for events.

UCI needed to update their business model long ago and work around the taxation issues for each country etc... and pay out better prize money.

From next year the series will be run by ESO(EWS)/Discovery. So we can hope that the prize money situation will improve in the future. Sadly the chances of it improving ASAP are slim. EWS has been around for 10 years now and the prize money is much worse than World Cups. BUT an EWS entry fee is 3 X that of a World Cup (with no cap, unlike World Cups which are capped at €80 for elites and €40 for juniors).

So we'll see how things progress, or regress when the new masters take the reigns.
I’m just curious how you have all this insight? Are you WC organizer?
taldfind
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9/24/2022 11:04am
As long as UCI makes money off athletes performance, they owe a prize purse that is comparable to the UCI's income from that race. If they make thousands, they should pay a purse that is in the hundreds, if it is millions they should pay thousands, and if it's in the billions they should pay millions. Nobody watches a UCI event so they can witness a bunch of suites debate rule changes, they watch the athletes race. UCI owes its existence to the racers first and foremost, so the racers should be the ones making the most money.
2
Mr.Nally
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9/24/2022 12:57pm
I’m just curious how you have all this insight? Are you WC organizer?
All the information is available in the public domain on UCI site. There's not much smoke and mirrors with the UCI it seems. Contrary to what people seem to think.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/2srMOd0YVoMoe45sGhZdV9/7be34c…

Looks to me like UCI biggest issue is lack of vision, staff and competence to aim for big things with the world Cup.

Now it's in ESO/discovery hands and sadly they'll probably corporatize it and dumb it down so much that it'll be meaningless to the true fans and not very interesting to the casual observer/viewer.

4
BHowell
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9/24/2022 3:36pm
I recall this very issue being brought up in 2019. It seems no headway has been made. Perhaps with the rider's union coming together, they can leverage the UCI to update its business model and contribute toward the prize money.
1
brash
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9/24/2022 3:42pm
buckoW wrote:
How about we crowd fund some prize money here on Vital and give it to the winning athletes after each race? Partner up with Venmo and...
How about we crowd fund some prize money here on Vital and give it to the winning athletes after each race? Partner up with Venmo and Cashapp? Then we can do something about it rather than tell others what they should be doing.

Anybody on here know how this could be done or want to set it up?

while it's a noble gesture, The guys who are winning (and let's face it, there is really only 5 of them) are most likely adequately compensated.

But perhaps take that money and give it to the top 3 privateers via Wyn Masters privateer of the week award. That would be a much better use of funds IMO.
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1
9/24/2022 5:49pm
I’m just curious how you have all this insight? Are you WC organizer?
Mr.Nally wrote:
All the information is available in the public domain on UCI site. There's not much smoke and mirrors with the UCI it seems. Contrary to what...
All the information is available in the public domain on UCI site. There's not much smoke and mirrors with the UCI it seems. Contrary to what people seem to think.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/2srMOd0YVoMoe45sGhZdV9/7be34c…

Looks to me like UCI biggest issue is lack of vision, staff and competence to aim for big things with the world Cup.

Now it's in ESO/discovery hands and sadly they'll probably corporatize it and dumb it down so much that it'll be meaningless to the true fans and not very interesting to the casual observer/viewer.

Dang this is an awesome link thanks dude!
Pedal4life
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9/24/2022 9:29pm
They need a riders union before they before they put tire to dirt again.
deeboy
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9/24/2022 11:42pm
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect...
My frustrations are directed more at the UCI and the prize money they put up for the events they sanction/govern. If the UCI chooses to collect prize money funding from bike brands or Toyota, that is there choice. I wonder if the UCI even needs to find funding for prize money…

And I completely agree, I’d love to see more funding behind regional/national events. I’d like to believe downhill racing and the UCI is currently in a position that it doesn’t have to be one or the other, and we could grow regional downhill racing while also supporting World Cup level athletes.
Mr.Nally wrote:
You are a little mistaken on how the World Cup prize money system works, At world cups it's the local organizer that pays the prize money...
You are a little mistaken on how the World Cup prize money system works,

At world cups it's the local organizer that pays the prize money, not the UCI. World Champs is different, there it's the UCI that pay out.

However, the UCI cover all the overall prize money for the season rankings (€10,000 for first place)

But it's local organizers that have to budget for prize money etc... for each individual World Cup round. The problem then is that the UCIs business model is terrible, So blame lies at their feet. The prize money amounts haven't increased in a long time as the burden would fall on the local organizer and would be another reason why less venues would bid for events.

UCI needed to update their business model long ago and work around the taxation issues for each country etc... and pay out better prize money.

From next year the series will be run by ESO(EWS)/Discovery. So we can hope that the prize money situation will improve in the future. Sadly the chances of it improving ASAP are slim. EWS has been around for 10 years now and the prize money is much worse than World Cups. BUT an EWS entry fee is 3 X that of a World Cup (with no cap, unlike World Cups which are capped at €80 for elites and €40 for juniors).

So we'll see how things progress, or regress when the new masters take the reigns.
I’m just curious how you have all this insight? Are you WC organizer?
This is exactly right. Just the same in BMX World Cups. UCI set the "minimum" prize purse & then it is the responsibility of the host to deliver that prize purse.
This possibly is the issue with less locations hosting, as they (the host) needs to stump up $21690euro for just DH or $44860euro for both XC & DH.
For hosts, its a heap of money, added to the UCI event fees, the minimum requirement for medical cover $$$ etc. Then all the usual event costs to deliver the event.
I'm working with a team looking at a WC (BMX two rounds) and its a $400Keuro delivery, prize money of $53,600euro is a significant portion of the total.
Unless there is a significant sponsor attached to an event, then this is a hard ask to deliver the minimum.

Any increase for the segment of the event, is purely supplied by the Host. If UCI decide to increase the minimum, then it is the host the need to find this money.

I'm not saying that they should or should not deserve more. Its finding out where is will come from

4
iRider
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9/25/2022 12:52am
boozed wrote:
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is...
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is just over US$0.5m, but the total prize pool is US$2.7m and that has to be spread out across all 21 stages and multiple race classifications) and the MTB world cup is probably a good reflection of their relative popularity...

I've never had any sympathy for sportspeople believing they deserve to earn money just because they were blessed with the ability to kick a ball accurately or run fast or whatever so it would be hypocritical of me to treat mountain bikers any differently. The prize money is a reflection of the commercial value of the sport. If that's not good enough, either do it for the enjoyment, or find something else to do that will support you financially.

Making a living from sport has always only ever been for the best of the best anyway, it's not a sensible career choice for normal people, or even most athletes who aren't top tier.


While I partially agree with you, I also can follow BK's arguments that UCI makes it harder for athletes to earn sponsorship money from other places. They brought in Mercedes as a title sponsor and he mentions also the deal with GoPro. So where is that money going if the promoter of an event has to basically pay everything including the price money? Lining the pockets of UCI?
On the other hand, these UCI deals make sponsorship agreements from teams with competing companies harder or impossible, de facto costing the athletes income.

@buckoW: interesting idea, but my guess is that will already happen with Discovery and their potential pay-to-view models if they, at the same time, increase the price money for the winners.
jeff.brines
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9/25/2022 6:28am Edited Date/Time 9/25/2022 9:35am
I could probably go find an old Ridemonkey thread from the mid 2000s with roughly the same title and same back and forths.

The reality is, the prize money will not materially change if the riders keep showing up to race. This won't change unless there is a viable alternative to UCI WC DH, which is unlikely (unless the Saudis get involves Wink ).

I'd also suggest this conversation ends up becoming a bigger conversation pertaining to the business model of race promoting, which I will spare this thread from, but you can pay your riders if you are putting on a show for a much bigger audience than we have in the past. (though, this may be an assumption that is wrong, Stik suggested WCDH on RBTV is bigger than SX).



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boozed
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9/25/2022 9:45pm
boozed wrote:
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is...
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is just over US$0.5m, but the total prize pool is US$2.7m and that has to be spread out across all 21 stages and multiple race classifications) and the MTB world cup is probably a good reflection of their relative popularity...

I've never had any sympathy for sportspeople believing they deserve to earn money just because they were blessed with the ability to kick a ball accurately or run fast or whatever so it would be hypocritical of me to treat mountain bikers any differently. The prize money is a reflection of the commercial value of the sport. If that's not good enough, either do it for the enjoyment, or find something else to do that will support you financially.

Making a living from sport has always only ever been for the best of the best anyway, it's not a sensible career choice for normal people, or even most athletes who aren't top tier.


iRider wrote:
While I partially agree with you, I also can follow BK's arguments that UCI makes it harder for athletes to earn sponsorship money from other places...
While I partially agree with you, I also can follow BK's arguments that UCI makes it harder for athletes to earn sponsorship money from other places. They brought in Mercedes as a title sponsor and he mentions also the deal with GoPro. So where is that money going if the promoter of an event has to basically pay everything including the price money? Lining the pockets of UCI?
On the other hand, these UCI deals make sponsorship agreements from teams with competing companies harder or impossible, de facto costing the athletes income.

@buckoW: interesting idea, but my guess is that will already happen with Discovery and their potential pay-to-view models if they, at the same time, increase the price money for the winners.
I wasn't aware of restrictions on rider sponsorships. Regardless of my opinions on earnings from competition, restraining a competitor's ability to earn an income elsewhere is not on.
Mr.Nally
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9/26/2022 1:47am
boozed wrote:
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is...
I'd say the gulf between the prize money in the road world tour (e.g. the prize money for winning the Tour de France general classification is just over US$0.5m, but the total prize pool is US$2.7m and that has to be spread out across all 21 stages and multiple race classifications) and the MTB world cup is probably a good reflection of their relative popularity...

I've never had any sympathy for sportspeople believing they deserve to earn money just because they were blessed with the ability to kick a ball accurately or run fast or whatever so it would be hypocritical of me to treat mountain bikers any differently. The prize money is a reflection of the commercial value of the sport. If that's not good enough, either do it for the enjoyment, or find something else to do that will support you financially.

Making a living from sport has always only ever been for the best of the best anyway, it's not a sensible career choice for normal people, or even most athletes who aren't top tier.


iRider wrote:
While I partially agree with you, I also can follow BK's arguments that UCI makes it harder for athletes to earn sponsorship money from other places...
While I partially agree with you, I also can follow BK's arguments that UCI makes it harder for athletes to earn sponsorship money from other places. They brought in Mercedes as a title sponsor and he mentions also the deal with GoPro. So where is that money going if the promoter of an event has to basically pay everything including the price money? Lining the pockets of UCI?
On the other hand, these UCI deals make sponsorship agreements from teams with competing companies harder or impossible, de facto costing the athletes income.

@buckoW: interesting idea, but my guess is that will already happen with Discovery and their potential pay-to-view models if they, at the same time, increase the price money for the winners.
I'd take Bernard's words with the needed pinch of salt. The GoPro deal has brought it's issues, as you can't use any other type of camera for qualis or finals footage. But you could still be sponsored by another company, no problems. As some riders/teams are.

Likewise Mercedes being the title sponsor doesn't exclude riders or teams getting automotive deals, Reece Wilson was sponsored by Volvo (or is?). Likewise Red Bull obviously have a big presence in the series but that doesn't stop Monster sponsoring athletes.

Vittoria tyres are a sponsor of the World cup series for many seasons now - doesn't stop Maxxis or Schwalbe sponsoring team and winning races!

There will always be difficulties and conflicts in procuring sponsorship. What did you expect the UCI to do? Not bring in any sponsors for the series?

Guys like Bernard want their cake and they want to eat it too.

And sadly for Bernard and maybe all of us media restrictions, rights issues, sponsor conflicts etc... are about to get A WHOLE LOT worse with the new series owners. The classic iPhone mash-up from practice day at a World Cup will be a thing of the past.

Let's just hope the prize money and other benefits increase


1
beaverbiker
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9/28/2022 1:28pm
Good prize money in MTB racing disappeared a long time ago. All of these guys know that, yet they still show up and take risks for little to no money. Hard to feel sorry for them.

Sure I'd like them to get paid better, and if they were, I might have continued racing rather than become an engineer. But at the end of the day, the racers are responsible for their choices, and they chose to participate in a high risk sport with little financial incentive. It's not like this information was hidden from them.

They really need to protest the issue by not showing up for the races. Nothing will change for them until they actually do something besides create Youtube videos about it.
veefour
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9/28/2022 3:47pm Edited Date/Time 9/28/2022 3:49pm
I'm sure I heard something recently about prize money being split between DH and Ebike races. Or did I dream it?
DNE87
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9/28/2022 6:51pm
veefour wrote:
I'm sure I heard something recently about prize money being split between DH and Ebike races. Or did I dream it?
Was that not the EWS and EWS-E? Pretty sure the EWS prize money pot was split down the middle to cover both races.


veefour
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9/28/2022 10:49pm
Ah, now you say that I think you're right.
Mr.Nally
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9/29/2022 12:50am
veefour wrote:
I'm sure I heard something recently about prize money being split between DH and Ebike races. Or did I dream it?
World Champs prize money is what you are thinking about. Inclusion of e-XC meant no increase in DH prize money albeit the fact that XCO prize money increased by nearly 50%
2
grambo
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9/29/2022 12:15pm
I thought that DH brought more eyeballs to the broadcast than XCO? Seems odd prize money wouldn't be higher but maybe the XCO athletes/teams/sponsors are more sophisticated/demanding in that area? I assume they are run more like pro roadie teams.

Either way the prize money is embarrassingly low compared to road. Cool to see US open with some decent cash.
veefour
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9/30/2022 5:06am
Whoever is doing it, reducing or freezing prize money in DH or EWS and giving that money to people racing electric bikes is such a backward step. Is there anything more pointless than racing ebikes? Trouble is, the bike companies will be fully behind it as it's obvious the direction in which they want to push things.
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stewiewin
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10/3/2022 6:01pm
Cycling is the most exploitative sport ever. cyclists are badly in a need of a union

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