World Cup Downhill MTB Race Talk

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5/21/2019 3:58 AM

Yikes.Not sure I’m buying this crap. Tossing Hall under the bus too. Pretty lame. The crank broke. They’re crap. It’s been pretty well documented. Why would you have a pair of 3 year old cranks in your pits anyway?

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5/21/2019 5:28 AM

30 years in this sport and I'm still reading the same BS as it was 1992.
Pre-production,defected batch, prototype,my a$$!

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26 years in the woods

5/21/2019 5:52 AM

schwaaa31 wrote:

Yikes.Not sure I’m buying this crap. Tossing Hall under the bus too. Pretty lame. The crank broke. They’re crap. It’s been pretty well documented. Why would you have a pair of 3 year old cranks in your pits anyway?

Thanks for the posting this since we don't all have IG! I've always had a ton of respect for this guy but this response is petty and childish. No wonder he wanted interview questions in advance... lol. That's what you get for riding carbon cranks!

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5/21/2019 7:57 AM

Gwin is Captain America right wing, God fearing. and nothing is more important to the American Right than money. so dam right he's protecting his sponsors, his image and his wallet. at all times.

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5/21/2019 7:59 AM

schwaaa31 wrote:

Yikes.Not sure I’m buying this crap. Tossing Hall under the bus too. Pretty lame. The crank broke. They’re crap. It’s been pretty well documented. Why would you have a pair of 3 year old cranks in your pits anyway?

New sponsors to come : Kleenex. And Axxios (for the BS speech, you know).

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5/21/2019 8:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2019 8:13 AM

I’m more upset he threw John Hall under the bus. The man is an absolute perfectionist, and there is no way a 3 year old defective part was used on a brand new build. We all know it was a squeaky clean brand new crank provided by ethirteen. Broken parts are a part of racing, call it that and move on.

You can’t control the media Aaron. We are curious fans, and comments like that just further distance you from the people support your career.

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5/21/2019 8:15 AM

Erotomania90 wrote:

I’m more upset he threw John Hall under the bus. The man is an absolute perfectionist, and there is no way a 3 year old defective part was used on a brand new build. We all know it was a squeaky clean brand new crank provided by ethirteen. Broken parts are a part of racing, call it that and move on.

You can’t control the media Aaron. We are curious fans, and comments like that just further distance you from the people support your career.

Exactly. The professional response to this would have simply been "it's racing, these things happen". Throwing people under the bus and making excuses just looks bad.

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5/21/2019 8:23 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2019 9:45 AM

Erotomania90 wrote:

I’m more upset he threw John Hall under the bus. The man is an absolute perfectionist, and there is no way a 3 year old defective part was used on a brand new build. We all know it was a squeaky clean brand new crank provided by ethirteen. Broken parts are a part of racing, call it that and move on.

You can’t control the media Aaron. We are curious fans, and comments like that just further distance you from the people support your career.

Same, e*13 is fine going under the bus, they’ve not been the king of quality over the last few years, or ever....Hall on the other hand has built a reputation as a wrench that only does high quality work.
And of course the fact that nobody cares about a company who gets lit up online, people will still buy their product at the end of the day, nobody cares that much. Did this vid really make enough of an impact on people to drastically damage crank sales? Doubtful.
But now John will most likely have to defend himself no less than a few times when someone sees him in the pits and asks about this? Aaron should’ve pulled his own post...

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5/21/2019 8:30 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2019 4:29 PM

schwaaa31 wrote:

Yikes.Not sure I’m buying this crap. Tossing Hall under the bus too. Pretty lame. The crank broke. They’re crap. It’s been pretty well documented. Why would you have a pair of 3 year old cranks in your pits anyway?

That is the most pathetic thing I think I have ever read by a professional athlete on a public forum. Never mind the hypocrisy of trying to sensor the very media that gives him publicity, he should know that there's no i in team. You look beyond these things and consider how your mechanic helped you to 20 world cup wins instead.

I really hope that Hall gave him the go ahead to make the post. You don't jeopardise personal relationships over meaningless stuff like that.

A sad day as a Gwin fan.

edited to add - having read Aarons response below, my comments are harsh, but I'm not going to remove them. When one of the guys you look up to as a professional does a dumb thing, it can get emotional. What I wrote is how I felt at the time.



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5/21/2019 9:10 AM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2019 3:53 PM

Unnecessary and childish. Apologies to Gwin.

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5/21/2019 9:16 AM

jimmypop wrote:

Unnecessary and childish. Apologies to Gwin.

E13?

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5/21/2019 9:24 AM

WWJTUTB - Who would Jesus throw under the bus?

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5/21/2019 9:32 AM

Gwin mixing it up in the comments on Instagram.

I really take issue with his criticism of Vital for reporting this. It might be enthusiast press and not traditional journalism, but if he thinks he can dictate what gets reported on he's on another planet.

I wonder how many at Vital and other outlets knew it was their job to only post positive stories on Gwin? Probably want to get all photos vetted through his team before publishing as well. Heck, have his PR people write the copy from now on.

popcorn.gif for watching this blow up

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5/21/2019 9:45 AM

Why on earth would a top WC rider have "defect" cranks from "3 years ago" laying around?

Such a lame response...

Own up that the jump was overshot...move on.


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5/21/2019 9:50 AM

jimmypop wrote:

Gwin mixing it up in the comments on Instagram.

I really take issue with his criticism of Vital for reporting this. It might be enthusiast press and not traditional journalism, but if he thinks he can dictate what gets reported on he's on another planet.

I wonder how many at Vital and other outlets knew it was their job to only post positive stories on Gwin? Probably want to get all photos vetted through his team before publishing as well. Heck, have his PR people write the copy from now on.

popcorn.gif for watching this blow up

Exactly, the criticism of it being posted is childish and petty. Especially when it's the same outlet that has given so much favorable coverage to Gwin over the years, all the way back to the Yeti days. Its a cell phone video from a public race. It wasn't someone flying a drone over a wall and getting video from a secret test session.

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5/21/2019 11:05 AM

Saying stupid things is one thing.
Throwing your friends under the bus is something else.
What he´s doing is damage control 101, owning up to the mistake before the twitter shitstorm gets going.
It´s basic knowledge for any pro athlete in 2019.
Maybe he´s genuinely sorry, we won´t ever know, but this was handled rather poorly by him and for me he´s now back to square one after the tales of the mob series managed to make the guy much more likeable.

The excuses are also rather lame. Even if all he says was true, that still means e13 cranks can´t be ridden over an extended period of time? C´mon, that narrative isn´t doing them any favours either.
The way he handled it, everyone involved loses.

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5/21/2019 11:10 AM

Gotta love the hypocracy... Do you want the truth or not? You can't be mad that he didn't want this posted and then also mad that once it was posted he gave the details of the story which involved an error on the part of his mechanic.

Maybe he didn't want it posted because then he would feel obligated to give the details of the story... Which ultimately would have to place blame somewhere. You guys just seem out for blood on his sponsor.

Human error is real. Parts breaking is real. Get over it.

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5/21/2019 11:12 AM

I shoulda been more descriptive and explained things better in that initial comment so that I'm not having to go back and clarify now. I answered a lot of these same accusations in the other responses I made on that same Instagram post but I'll give ya guys the goods too.

I was just frustrated honestly. I had just got a message from the guys at Mountain creek who took the video respectfully telling me that they weren't going to send the video around, which was kind of them. One of the guys had sent it to someone else and that dude blasted it to Vital straight away. I can't control what the media puts out there but with this video and the circumstances being what they were, it just made the whole situation a bummer. They were old parts that we were told not to run and it was a bummer knowing E13 was gonna get hammered so hard. It would have been cool of Vital to ask for any background info to go with the video.

Also, John's my guy, there's nobody else I'd rather have with me at the races and he's been near perfect for the entire 5+ years we've been working together now. I trust him completely and we've built a strong friendship over the years, anyone who's spent any time around us knows this. A big part of having a real relationship with anyone though is being ok to admit when you've made a mistake. We both understand that and he'd tell you the same thing. He'd want the blame for this to fall on him and not E13 because that's reality. We don't try to cover things up by passing blame, we just represent the truth of the situation and move on.

These were old model cranks that E13 told us not to put on a race bike over a year ago because they'd been having issues with them. The bike I was riding last weekend was the very first Intense that I got months ago before I even signed the contract with them. At that time, I wanted to test it back to back with my YT for comparison and we didn't have a lot of spares to build it up since our new parts hadn't arrived yet. We pieced that bike together with random parts that we had laying around, John had saved those cranks for an enduro bike or something and just threw them on because they were the only ones he had at that time. Shortly after I signed with intense I switched to the XL frame and we built that bike up with all the current parts once they came in before team camp. I just recently went back to that large practice bike a few weeks ago after Maribor, I hadn't been riding it much before then and John just didn't think to swap the cranks out. We both had no idea but when he sent the photos of the broken cranks back to E13 for research with the part number, they came back to us kind of like, "dude, we told you not to run those, why were they on your bike?". When John remembered what batch of cranks those came from he was bummed to say the least.

Anyways, just trying to give some back story since it's kind of blown up over my comment. There's so many factors involved that me saying what I did on Instagram gave a really short perspective to the whole situation and I should of explained things a bit better. You guys all know that the media seeks out the drama constantly and only gives a certain amount of truth in a lot of things that are posted. That's ok, it's become a part of our culture these days but it doesn't mean that I should just roll with whatever way they decide to represent things.

The hardest thing that I've had to deal with in my career is harsh judgment from the fans. Might surprise you but it's true. It straight up sucks when people talk bad about you, especially since they rarely understand the reality of certain situations. You guys see a very narrow view sometimes of whatever the media chooses to represent, that's why I've always kind of made an effort to step in and make things clear. Sometimes for better, and sometimes maybe for worse. I'm pretty confident that if any of you were to go out to coffee with John and I to discuss this whole situation, or any other in the past, you'd have a very different view on reality when you saw the trust we have for each other, the factors involved, etc.

Just tryin to be real with you guys.

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5/21/2019 12:37 PM

thanks for chiming in, aaron. it's crazy this whole ordeal turned into such chaos and wasted time. i woke up this morning to a billion texts and emails about all the drama. when the vid was posted yesterday, i didn't know it was a "leaked" video. i also chalked it up to "world cup riders are gnarly. they do gnarly things. they break stuff," and figured that the rest of the mtb community had the same reasonable way of thinking. i knew some people may comment on the crank break, but the newsworthiness of the video was that you hurt your ankle and that ft bill etc may be in jeopardy. i didn't care that you broke a bike part. i still don't. all of you elite racers are so brutal on bikes and parts. that's just the nature of the game.

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5/21/2019 12:50 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2019 12:53 PM

Gwinny wrote:

I shoulda been more descriptive and explained things better in that initial comment so that I'm not having to go back and clarify now. I answered a lot of these same accusations in the other responses I made on that same Instagram post but I'll give ya guys the goods too.

I was just frustrated honestly. I had just got a message from the guys at Mountain creek who took the video respectfully telling me that they weren't going to send the video around, which was kind of them. One of the guys had sent it to someone else and that dude blasted it to Vital straight away. I can't control what the media puts out there but with this video and the circumstances being what they were, it just made the whole situation a bummer. They were old parts that we were told not to run and it was a bummer knowing E13 was gonna get hammered so hard. It would have been cool of Vital to ask for any background info to go with the video.

Also, John's my guy, there's nobody else I'd rather have with me at the races and he's been near perfect for the entire 5+ years we've been working together now. I trust him completely and we've built a strong friendship over the years, anyone who's spent any time around us knows this. A big part of having a real relationship with anyone though is being ok to admit when you've made a mistake. We both understand that and he'd tell you the same thing. He'd want the blame for this to fall on him and not E13 because that's reality. We don't try to cover things up by passing blame, we just represent the truth of the situation and move on.

These were old model cranks that E13 told us not to put on a race bike over a year ago because they'd been having issues with them. The bike I was riding last weekend was the very first Intense that I got months ago before I even signed the contract with them. At that time, I wanted to test it back to back with my YT for comparison and we didn't have a lot of spares to build it up since our new parts hadn't arrived yet. We pieced that bike together with random parts that we had laying around, John had saved those cranks for an enduro bike or something and just threw them on because they were the only ones he had at that time. Shortly after I signed with intense I switched to the XL frame and we built that bike up with all the current parts once they came in before team camp. I just recently went back to that large practice bike a few weeks ago after Maribor, I hadn't been riding it much before then and John just didn't think to swap the cranks out. We both had no idea but when he sent the photos of the broken cranks back to E13 for research with the part number, they came back to us kind of like, "dude, we told you not to run those, why were they on your bike?". When John remembered what batch of cranks those came from he was bummed to say the least.

Anyways, just trying to give some back story since it's kind of blown up over my comment. There's so many factors involved that me saying what I did on Instagram gave a really short perspective to the whole situation and I should of explained things a bit better. You guys all know that the media seeks out the drama constantly and only gives a certain amount of truth in a lot of things that are posted. That's ok, it's become a part of our culture these days but it doesn't mean that I should just roll with whatever way they decide to represent things.

The hardest thing that I've had to deal with in my career is harsh judgment from the fans. Might surprise you but it's true. It straight up sucks when people talk bad about you, especially since they rarely understand the reality of certain situations. You guys see a very narrow view sometimes of whatever the media chooses to represent, that's why I've always kind of made an effort to step in and make things clear. Sometimes for better, and sometimes maybe for worse. I'm pretty confident that if any of you were to go out to coffee with John and I to discuss this whole situation, or any other in the past, you'd have a very different view on reality when you saw the trust we have for each other, the factors involved, etc.

Just tryin to be real with you guys.

Aaron - people are too harsh, shit happens. It's cool that you're being transparent when I don't think you really have to be. Glad you're mostly ok. Keep killing it dude! Hope John doesn't beat himself up too bad, he seems like the kind of guy that would do that.

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5/21/2019 1:35 PM

Nice to see Gwin lay out the details. People thinking some elaborate story was made up to protect e*13 might be spending a bit too much time in the comment sections of the webernets. Same thing with the general disrespect....99% of the people would walk away with their tails between their legs before saying some of the stuff they post direct to that persons face.

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5/21/2019 1:36 PM

Here is a better version of dealing with a broken part in a public race on Instagram:

Hey Guys,

Racing is tough on bikes and riders. Some cases you can't simulate in FEM (picture of a FEM simulation of a crank). So here we go, overshooting the last jump wasn't the best idea, but who wants to brake.

The results of this special test will let you ride even safer with new products.

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5/21/2019 2:30 PM
Edited Date/Time: 5/21/2019 2:45 PM

The hardest thing that I've had to deal with in my career is harsh judgment from the fans. Might surprise you but it's true. It straight up sucks when people talk bad about you, especially since they rarely understand the reality of certain situations. You guys see a very narrow view sometimes of whatever the media chooses to represent, that's why I've always kind of made an effort to step in and make things clear. Sometimes for better, and sometimes maybe for worse. I'm pretty confident that if any of you were to go out to coffee with John and I to discuss this whole situation, or any other in the past, you'd have a very different view on reality when you saw the trust we have for each other, the factors involved, etc.


Not to sound all dadish but you can't control what people think or say. You can only control your own actions. The upside nowadays is you have your own communication channels to discuss anything you want through. In fact, you have more followers than Vital does on the gnarstagram!

I totally get this irking you. If I was in your shoes, I'd have to just look away. Only so many hours in a day, and I'm pretty sure we all won't look back and go "man I'm glad I spent _____ hours a day arguing on the internet!". (making this post extra ironic, I know) People will *never* know the full story. Smarter people are aware of this and take everything with a grain of salt. Not-so-smart people aren't so aware of this and will take everything at face value. Unfortunately, nothing you say or do will make a not-so-smart person all of a sudden smart. At least that's how it seems to me.

You aren't leveraged to one media outlet's portrayal of you. Or at least you aren't *that* leveraged. I'd argue its the other way around. You control your image more now, than ever, just by having your own channels to communicate through. The media is second rung in this respect compared to yesteryear, where their brush was the only brush.

As I alluded to earlier, by all accounts you are a hard working top rung dude. I wouldn't sweat any of this nor would I let a few negative comments do anything to effect your day. Life's too short.

Good luck at Fort Bill - and I sincerely hope you are too busy to read this.





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5/21/2019 3:54 PM

Gwinny wrote:

I shoulda been more descriptive and explained things better in that initial comment so that I'm not having to go back and clarify now. I answered a lot of these same accusations in the other responses I made on that same Instagram post but I'll give ya guys the goods too.

I was just frustrated honestly. I had just got a message from the guys at Mountain creek who took the video respectfully telling me that they weren't going to send the video around, which was kind of them. One of the guys had sent it to someone else and that dude blasted it to Vital straight away. I can't control what the media puts out there but with this video and the circumstances being what they were, it just made the whole situation a bummer. They were old parts that we were told not to run and it was a bummer knowing E13 was gonna get hammered so hard. It would have been cool of Vital to ask for any background info to go with the video.

Also, John's my guy, there's nobody else I'd rather have with me at the races and he's been near perfect for the entire 5+ years we've been working together now. I trust him completely and we've built a strong friendship over the years, anyone who's spent any time around us knows this. A big part of having a real relationship with anyone though is being ok to admit when you've made a mistake. We both understand that and he'd tell you the same thing. He'd want the blame for this to fall on him and not E13 because that's reality. We don't try to cover things up by passing blame, we just represent the truth of the situation and move on.

These were old model cranks that E13 told us not to put on a race bike over a year ago because they'd been having issues with them. The bike I was riding last weekend was the very first Intense that I got months ago before I even signed the contract with them. At that time, I wanted to test it back to back with my YT for comparison and we didn't have a lot of spares to build it up since our new parts hadn't arrived yet. We pieced that bike together with random parts that we had laying around, John had saved those cranks for an enduro bike or something and just threw them on because they were the only ones he had at that time. Shortly after I signed with intense I switched to the XL frame and we built that bike up with all the current parts once they came in before team camp. I just recently went back to that large practice bike a few weeks ago after Maribor, I hadn't been riding it much before then and John just didn't think to swap the cranks out. We both had no idea but when he sent the photos of the broken cranks back to E13 for research with the part number, they came back to us kind of like, "dude, we told you not to run those, why were they on your bike?". When John remembered what batch of cranks those came from he was bummed to say the least.

Anyways, just trying to give some back story since it's kind of blown up over my comment. There's so many factors involved that me saying what I did on Instagram gave a really short perspective to the whole situation and I should of explained things a bit better. You guys all know that the media seeks out the drama constantly and only gives a certain amount of truth in a lot of things that are posted. That's ok, it's become a part of our culture these days but it doesn't mean that I should just roll with whatever way they decide to represent things.

The hardest thing that I've had to deal with in my career is harsh judgment from the fans. Might surprise you but it's true. It straight up sucks when people talk bad about you, especially since they rarely understand the reality of certain situations. You guys see a very narrow view sometimes of whatever the media chooses to represent, that's why I've always kind of made an effort to step in and make things clear. Sometimes for better, and sometimes maybe for worse. I'm pretty confident that if any of you were to go out to coffee with John and I to discuss this whole situation, or any other in the past, you'd have a very different view on reality when you saw the trust we have for each other, the factors involved, etc.

Just tryin to be real with you guys.

I’d rather you lied to us and not publicly pointed your finger at John. It doesn’t have to be anyone’s fault, it’s just part of racing @ the top level. The End.

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5/21/2019 3:56 PM

Gwin is about as good at making up stories as the writers were for the last season of Game of Thrones.

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5/21/2019 4:25 PM

I think it's honourable that Gwin came here to give his side of things. I think this whole thing could have been avoided by choosing his words more carefully in his original Instagram response. Just changing the words 'my mechanic made a big mistake' to 'we made a big mistake' completely changes the context of the post.

I think Aaron should know that when you reach his level of success you are heavily scrutinised. People talking bad about you comes with the territory. It happens and it sucks but you need to realise that the positive impact you make by doing what you do massively outweighs the negativity. You are an ambassador, an inspiration and an idol to many people.

Onwards and upwards. All the best for 2019.

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5/21/2019 11:45 PM

E-13 carbon cranks on sale in the "deal" pop up on the vital home page. Anyone getting a pair?

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5/22/2019 12:06 AM

Oz_Taylor wrote:

I think it's honourable that Gwin came here to give his side of things. I think this whole thing could have been avoided by choosing his words more carefully in his original Instagram response. Just changing the words 'my mechanic made a big mistake' to 'we made a big mistake' completely changes the context of the post.

I think Aaron should know that when you reach his level of success you are heavily scrutinised. People talking bad about you comes with the territory. It happens and it sucks but you need to realise that the positive impact you make by doing what you do massively outweighs the negativity. You are an ambassador, an inspiration and an idol to many people.

Onwards and upwards. All the best for 2019.

Agreed- changing "my mechanic" to "we" would have made a lot of this fiasco (if not all of it) not a fiasco. Much of people's anger arose from this part of his post.

When we communicate through mediums where we only have text, choosing the correct words is of the utmost importance. We don't have body language, tone of voice, personal immediacy, etc. We literally just have our words and our message will be interpreted and judged solely on the words we select. The importance of this is compounded even more given that these threads/posts can stay around forever...

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5/22/2019 1:04 AM

Interesting to compare how differently things were handled between breaking something relatively small like a crank in this case to when a rival team's leading man smashed a frame in half.

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5/22/2019 4:18 AM

fun house wrote:

Interesting to compare how differently things were handled between breaking something relatively small like a crank in this case to when a rival team's leading man smashed a frame in half.

I think they are two totally different instances though. For starters, E13 have had known quality problems with certain cranks, whereas Santa Cruz did not have a known issue with V10s snapping (although I'm sure it can happen, as with anything). Secondly, the E13 crank broke under normal riding conditions and not due to an impact with a wooden post. Had the E13 crank broke by running into a wooden post or a tree, it would have been seen differently but it broke during a relatively normal landing in a race run. Likewise, if Minnaar's V10 had snapped during a normal landing people would have reacted to it completely differently.

So because of pre-existing quality problems and breaking under normal riding conditions, I think E13 feared some public backlash that Santa Cruz never had to worry about. And because of this fear, the parties involved jumped to defend their image more so than normal. I'm not justifying how "E13" handled it, just providing an explanation as to how & why these are two different scenarios.

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