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Specialized & The Global Climate Strike - Marketing BS or Meaningful Initiative

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9/20/2019 7:20 AM

Good points Spomer.

I'd be all about 9 speed that works for the long haul. I certainly don't need 12 gears, especially on my trail or enduro bike. XC, maybe I need more - like 11, but yeah...enduro or trail? Nah.

As long as I have a 42, a 36, a 32 and then whatever for the other 6 gears I'll be fine.

I don't think there is a fork out there that'd work for the long haul yet. Part of the issue is how they are oiled. "Right side up" plus small oil volumes means there will be a good chance, somewhere down the line, that oil isn't where it needs to be. This is my bet as to why I get stanction wear the way I do, and otherwise poor performance so quickly. Fox has a cool patent to fix this, but it'd require the company to make new molds for the lowers that are less than aesthetically appealing.

I wish RS would make an USD fork for enduro. It won't happen, but it'd be a really cool project. I still think mountain bikers, by and large, are completely missing how an USD fork should ride. We're over engineering stiffness into a product that would benefit from some flex. USD would be so much better on the oiling front, could have massive bushing overlap, be more modular (there is no arch connecting the two tubes - so everything can be replaced one by one), offset could be played with easily, etc.

To my point, I rode the Lefty Ocho. While the fork's action was scary (it just wasn't a refined air spring) the stiffness was actually pretty damn good. So my idea is clearly possible.

Another place I'd like to see some engineering around a more modular design is the derailleur clutch. Most aren't serviceable and are relegated to the trashcan when they stop working.

I could go on and on.

What I'm asking for, really, is just as much attention to "how do we keep this running for more than one season" than we are "outright performance".

For most riders, even racers, this counts - a lot.





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9/20/2019 7:30 AM

...and as predicted, my social media feed is legitimately making my blood pressure rise. People are "striking" the same way I ditched class as a high school senior for some religious holiday I didn't really care about.

This is an excuse to get away from work, pretend you care, feel better than you should about yourself all the while doing absolutely nothing...err less than nothing to fix the problem.

In a way, it reminds me of this...

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9/20/2019 7:31 AM

^^^


[[[and with that, Jeff has retained his king kook status for at least another season]]]] whistling whistling whistling

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9/20/2019 8:26 AM

jeff.brines wrote:

^^^


[[[and with that, Jeff has retained his king kook status for at least another season]]]] whistling whistling whistling

hahahah.

i will say seeing the strike footage/photos (picking shots of the biggest crowds for the most impact) was a bit of a bummer. wouldn't it make sense if the strikers had nothing unnecessary with them and one sign at the front of the crowd? the amount of signs and paint and potential litter/landfill material consumed by protesters was pretty obvious disappointing. i know, i know, it's easy to critique the efforts of those wanting to make a positive impact, and MANY of the signs looked like re-used pieces of cardboard. it just seemed like a no-brainer - protest about saving our environment by NOT consuming 100,000 pieces of posterboard and paint/sharpies/tape for signs. is that unrealistic on my part? i'm not trying to be a dick or sound like a disbelieving conservative about this. it was just a head-scratcher to see the clutter in photos.
Photo

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9/20/2019 8:26 AM

jeff.brines wrote:

Good points Spomer.

I'd be all about 9 speed that works for the long haul. I certainly don't need 12 gears, especially on my trail or enduro bike. XC, maybe I need more - like 11, but yeah...enduro or trail? Nah.

As long as I have a 42, a 36, a 32 and then whatever for the other 6 gears I'll be fine.

I don't think there is a fork out there that'd work for the long haul yet. Part of the issue is how they are oiled. "Right side up" plus small oil volumes means there will be a good chance, somewhere down the line, that oil isn't where it needs to be. This is my bet as to why I get stanction wear the way I do, and otherwise poor performance so quickly. Fox has a cool patent to fix this, but it'd require the company to make new molds for the lowers that are less than aesthetically appealing.

I wish RS would make an USD fork for enduro. It won't happen, but it'd be a really cool project. I still think mountain bikers, by and large, are completely missing how an USD fork should ride. We're over engineering stiffness into a product that would benefit from some flex. USD would be so much better on the oiling front, could have massive bushing overlap, be more modular (there is no arch connecting the two tubes - so everything can be replaced one by one), offset could be played with easily, etc.

To my point, I rode the Lefty Ocho. While the fork's action was scary (it just wasn't a refined air spring) the stiffness was actually pretty damn good. So my idea is clearly possible.

Another place I'd like to see some engineering around a more modular design is the derailleur clutch. Most aren't serviceable and are relegated to the trashcan when they stop working.

I could go on and on.

What I'm asking for, really, is just as much attention to "how do we keep this running for more than one season" than we are "outright performance".

For most riders, even racers, this counts - a lot.





I worked at Marzocchi during the Shiver days... So many people claimed the fork was too flexy... But, I have never ridden a more forgiving fork... Especially in the rock gardens...

Every other 2 wheeled motor sport has realized that stiffer isn't necessarily better...

We could go back to full oil bath forks... Smoother action, less maintenance but more weight...

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9/20/2019 8:32 AM

Brian_Peterson wrote:

I worked at Marzocchi during the Shiver days... So many people claimed the fork was too flexy... But, I have never ridden a more forgiving fork... Especially in the rock gardens...

Every other 2 wheeled motor sport has realized that stiffer isn't necessarily better...

We could go back to full oil bath forks... Smoother action, less maintenance but more weight...

i know a guy that started working at honda motorsports shortly after they first introduced their aluminum frames. he was involved with the redesign of the frame as the first iteration was entirely too stiff.

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9/20/2019 8:47 AM

I just had an idea while talking about this whole "strike" with my buds at work. What if, instead of striking, we all had a "fix it friday" in the name of sustainability (and cause fixing shit is cool).

You go to work, just like every other friday for us M-F monkeys. Then, after work, instead of going to do whatever you'd normally do, there are programs throughout the country where you could go to a garage, a shop, a place with sewing machines (what is that place called?) and you fix something, learn to fix something or get lectured on fixing something.

Keeping a product in your closet or garage is far better for the earth than buying something new. A culture of fixing not only helps the environment, but it feels pretty good too. Putting emphasis on fixing stuff is something of yesteryear it seems, often looked down upon as "not as cool as my desk job" (LOL!~)

Not to stereotype (too late) but I'd wager the majority of those cardboard sign "strikers" don't know the difference between a socket wrench and a box wrench.

I think it'd be rad.

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9/20/2019 9:03 AM

sspomer wrote:

hahahah.

i will say seeing the strike footage/photos (picking shots of the biggest crowds for the most impact) was a bit of a bummer. wouldn't it make sense if the strikers had nothing unnecessary with them and one sign at the front of the crowd? the amount of signs and paint and potential litter/landfill material consumed by protesters was pretty obvious disappointing. i know, i know, it's easy to critique the efforts of those wanting to make a positive impact, and MANY of the signs looked like re-used pieces of cardboard. it just seemed like a no-brainer - protest about saving our environment by NOT consuming 100,000 pieces of posterboard and paint/sharpies/tape for signs. is that unrealistic on my part? i'm not trying to be a dick or sound like a disbelieving conservative about this. it was just a head-scratcher to see the clutter in photos.
Photo

An even bigger irony is when you see the amount of trash left behind after some of these protesters leave...

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9/20/2019 9:07 AM

jeff.brines wrote:

I just had an idea while talking about this whole "strike" with my buds at work. What if, instead of striking, we all had a "fix it friday" in the name of sustainability (and cause fixing shit is cool).

You go to work, just like every other friday for us M-F monkeys. Then, after work, instead of going to do whatever you'd normally do, there are programs throughout the country where you could go to a garage, a shop, a place with sewing machines (what is that place called?) and you fix something, learn to fix something or get lectured on fixing something.

Keeping a product in your closet or garage is far better for the earth than buying something new. A culture of fixing not only helps the environment, but it feels pretty good too. Putting emphasis on fixing stuff is something of yesteryear it seems, often looked down upon as "not as cool as my desk job" (LOL!~)

Not to stereotype (too late) but I'd wager the majority of those cardboard sign "strikers" don't know the difference between a socket wrench and a box wrench.

I think it'd be rad.

The downside is that our society has become one based on cheap disposable goods ... China is the leading producer and the US is the leading consumer.. Even with bikes.. You can buy a cheap bike at a department store and when something breaks, fixing it costs more than replacing it...

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9/20/2019 9:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/20/2019 9:34 AM

Brian_Peterson wrote:

The downside is that our society has become one based on cheap disposable goods ... China is the leading producer and the US is the leading consumer.. Even with bikes.. You can buy a cheap bike at a department store and when something breaks, fixing it costs more than replacing it...

I'd love policy around this. It'd be impossible to regulate, but yeah, if your product isn't supported by replacement parts that are affordable, you can't sell it in the United States.

Boom.

EDIT: This is where blockchain could help too. It'd be hard to institute, but you could use blockchain to manage your supply chain, all the way from raw materials to the product going into the dump. If "X" products hit the dump before "Y" time, you get taxed?

I dunno...drank too much coffee.

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9/20/2019 9:24 AM

is it funny/ironic/on purpose that the iphone 11 became available on the no-internet-strike day?

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9/20/2019 9:25 AM

Brian_Peterson wrote:

I worked at Marzocchi during the Shiver days... So many people claimed the fork was too flexy... But, I have never ridden a more forgiving fork... Especially in the rock gardens...

Every other 2 wheeled motor sport has realized that stiffer isn't necessarily better...

We could go back to full oil bath forks... Smoother action, less maintenance but more weight...

The Shiver legitimately changed my life.

I sucked at riding bikes when I first started racing. I was around some fast dudes, and I so desperately wanted to be fast, but I wasn't.

The Shiver let me do things I couldn't have done on any other fork. It was so incredibly forgiving. It let me lean back, hold on, and hope for the best, which usually worked out.

The first race I had it on was Snowmass, the first time the Banzai course was ever taped. I remember riding down that with DCamp leading on an Azonic with a Super T (another great fork). The grass so high it was over my handlebars in places. With that fork I could just lean back and hold on, muting my sub par bike handling much to the dismay of my friends. I think it kinda pissed them off that I could ride stuff I had no business riding on that thing.

The next year I was on the old school dorado, which is still one of the best forks I ever have used. It was a lot like the shiver, with better damping. I remember converting the grease system to "semi bath" and the seals wouldn't hold the oil in. I finished a number of races with a barely working front brake...


I still think a modern shiver would have a place. Yes, it'd be heavy, but the rental bike, park bike, or "I don't want to fuck with it bike" would benefit from something like that fork.




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9/20/2019 9:39 AM

.

The comments are savage.

Apparently my POV is not all that unique.
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9/20/2019 10:34 AM

One of the issues with forks in my mind is the lack of oil toi save weight. Everyone is so obsessed with weight that an extra pound of oil in the fork to ensure longevitiy is just not an option. Thankfully it does seem like we are moving away from that somewhat, at least people i know who ride somewhat quickly. Lots of people opting for heavier/long lasting gear.

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9/20/2019 12:50 PM

jeff.brines wrote: .

The comments are savage.

Apparently my POV is not all that unique.

Damn... They are getting skewered...

My only real gripe on this whole climate strike is that they are pushing it on the backs of kids... I know every 13 year old is suddenly an expert on climate change and not simply regurgitating whatever they've been fed...

There is evidence of several climate shifts prior to the industrial revolution.. I'm not saying mankind hasn't contributed, but it may not be all man made either... But, yes.. doing our part to conserve some resources isn't a bad thing... There are still many questions about our planet that haven't been answered..

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9/20/2019 7:19 PM

jeff.brines wrote:

I just had an idea while talking about this whole "strike" with my buds at work. What if, instead of striking, we all had a "fix it friday" in the name of sustainability (and cause fixing shit is cool).

You go to work, just like every other friday for us M-F monkeys. Then, after work, instead of going to do whatever you'd normally do, there are programs throughout the country where you could go to a garage, a shop, a place with sewing machines (what is that place called?) and you fix something, learn to fix something or get lectured on fixing something.

Keeping a product in your closet or garage is far better for the earth than buying something new. A culture of fixing not only helps the environment, but it feels pretty good too. Putting emphasis on fixing stuff is something of yesteryear it seems, often looked down upon as "not as cool as my desk job" (LOL!~)

Not to stereotype (too late) but I'd wager the majority of those cardboard sign "strikers" don't know the difference between a socket wrench and a box wrench.

I think it'd be rad.

That is so true, and i think many would support bike companies (and others) getting behind this concept more that having unproven science shoved down our throats by brainwashed minions who should be actually learning something constructive , NOT believing everything on the first page of google search as a FACT.....

personally, this is something I have always tried to do with our family.. Both my teenage sons bikes were re-purposed from the side of the road. Re jigged replaced parts as needed and did a full disc conversion (hydro on 26 inch wheels) as no one wants the old stuff anymore.. In this process we found out that so many large companies dont care even about spare parts. The disc brakes we brought (shimano), had a MC failure after a crash and some serious 12 month use by one of my sons.

Think you could get spare parts ,,,, nope.... nata nothing... best I could do was buy a cheap EOL lever from alibaba to pinch the internals from. 12 bucks. All the bike shops were like just bin them as we can sell you a complete new lever, caliper etc for 49.... Tried Shimano Aust... no care, same answer...... Eventually I found a second hand set that I brought for 25 to use as parts as in the family we have 3 complete sets of these so should come in useful.

Same story with Hayes. trying to find a spare for an older set of nines ended up buying some second handies from US to pilfer for parts...

going to make a sic monument statue for the garden with all the bits that I wont be able to use...

Best bit with second hand goods... no taxes, little packaging, fits in budget.......

so I'm with Jeff,,,,, would love for companies to not change a couple of things for a few product rotations so that part of durability is the ability to replace small parts over generations of components thus saving inventory of spares and extending life-cycle of product..... I for one would support companies that did something like that or even included a spares kit of common wear components instead of so much money spent on packaging....

Currently we are a '26 for life cycle family' ... bits are super cheap. plenty around my boys keep up with plenty on their 26 inch hardtails even dudes on mega FS29 and 27 rigs.... once all the sheep go 29... ill get a few 27 fronts and mullet the family and progress the geo......

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9/23/2019 7:52 PM
Edited Date/Time: 9/23/2019 7:57 PM

"I actually semi-hate Patagonia for their political alignment and bullying"

LOLOLOL

As opposed the the illegal actions and bullying ("legal" and illegal) done by fossil fuel, chemical, and defense industries for decades and decades? #superfundsites

Do not fall into the trap of having perfect be the enemy of good.

And yeah all the companies that did the climate strike had all of human climate change deniers e dick waving on social media. You wanna talk about virtue signalling...

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9/24/2019 7:59 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/24/2019 8:00 AM

NorCalNomad wrote:

"I actually semi-hate Patagonia for their political alignment and bullying"

LOLOLOL

As opposed the the illegal actions and bullying ("legal" and illegal) done by fossil fuel, chemical, and defense industries for decades and decades? #superfundsites

Do not fall into the trap of having perfect be the enemy of good.

And yeah all the companies that did the climate strike had all of human climate change deniers e dick waving on social media. You wanna talk about virtue signalling...

First, I find it interesting you chose to hone in on my one sentence on Patagonia, which was a relatively small component of a much bigger conversation. Hell, I could have left it out entirely and this conversation would have been more or less the same. I'm happy to fully articulate my thoughts on Patagonia if you like, but again, its a very different conversation. (and I'm obviously not completely against them, I like a LOT of what they stand for.)

As far as your sentence about a trap goes, I don't follow. Rewrite that one so I can understand it.

Finally, yeah, there was some serious anti-striker kicking and screaming out there, but I'm not sure that's "virtue signaling".

Virtue Signaling Defined: the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue

I didnt' see people suggesting they were anti strike to show how good they are. In fact, it was kind of the opposite. Whenever you are suggesting "this environmental protest is bullshit" you look like an asshole, even if you might (or might not be) right. I'm not sure how you can read this otherwise...


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9/24/2019 8:34 AM

so who's digging through the piles of old parts in their garage this week for 'fix it friday' ..........

I know I will be , already have a couple of projects lined up

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9/24/2019 8:51 AM

dmanvan wrote:

so who's digging through the piles of old parts in their garage this week for 'fix it friday' ..........

I know I will be , already have a couple of projects lined up

Now this is a question I dig.

Last Friday I brought back to life my pops old mountain bike that was 100% on life support. He doesn't really "ride" the way the Vital contingent does. For him, its a work out, so the goal was to get the bike safe, reliable and operating correctly mechanically. Mission accomplished.

Question - does anyone know how to rebuild Crank Brothers pedals? I have more pair than I care to admit to owning that all have weak or bent springs. I suppose I ought to email them, but I can't find these springs anywhere - guessing I need some sort of tool to get them on, too. Any ideas? I'd love to bring 5 pairs of pedals back to life this Friday...that'd really make me happy.

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9/24/2019 9:20 AM

dmanvan wrote:

so who's digging through the piles of old parts in their garage this week for 'fix it friday' ..........

I know I will be , already have a couple of projects lined up

jeff.brines wrote:

Now this is a question I dig.

Last Friday I brought back to life my pops old mountain bike that was 100% on life support. He doesn't really "ride" the way the Vital contingent does. For him, its a work out, so the goal was to get the bike safe, reliable and operating correctly mechanically. Mission accomplished.

Question - does anyone know how to rebuild Crank Brothers pedals? I have more pair than I care to admit to owning that all have weak or bent springs. I suppose I ought to email them, but I can't find these springs anywhere - guessing I need some sort of tool to get them on, too. Any ideas? I'd love to bring 5 pairs of pedals back to life this Friday...that'd really make me happy.

.. that is awesome... nothing like re-birthing an old bike....

I have used these springs before. https://www.pushys.com.au/crank-brothers-replacement-pedal-spring-black.html

although you prob will find cheaper option in US..

when I did mine I just watched one of those super duper park tools vids.... and viola.. expert in no time.... at least crankbros. seem more forthcoming with parts as you can buy a complete refresh kit as well... but I have found I have a knack for bringing bearings back from the dead with some skills learnt when inlining for many years... ultrasonic cleaner and some magic sauce....

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9/24/2019 9:34 AM

FWIW, there are some cool things going on in a variety of places w/ recycling/repair. boise has the boise bicycle project which has a ton of cool programs - https://www.boisebicycleproject.org/programs/youth/#repair

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9/24/2019 10:16 AM
Edited Date/Time: 9/24/2019 10:18 AM

Spomer,

Should I create a different thread dedicated to this? Its just an idea, with no "infrastructure" (lol) but I'd love to hear about people bringing stuff back from the proverbial dead, and maybe we could all learn a thing or three. Like I said, I've never rebuilt pedals, and have tons of them.Hell, when I look around my garage, I'm sure I have a near infinite number of things I could fix!

It doesn't have to be esoteric, people can also ask questions on how to fix something - even if its simple, like truing a wheel (even those that are "untruable" etc. I'm sure there are some top rung fab guys here who can do some crazy stuff to old school frames to really bring stuff back alive, which would also be rad to see.

Either way, question is are there only two people who care to try and fix things in this thread or is it something we could all get into?

Bueller? Anyone? Bueller?


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9/24/2019 6:07 PM

jeff.brines wrote:

Spomer,

Should I create a different thread dedicated to this? Its just an idea, with no "infrastructure" (lol) but I'd love to hear about people bringing stuff back from the proverbial dead, and maybe we could all learn a thing or three. Like I said, I've never rebuilt pedals, and have tons of them.Hell, when I look around my garage, I'm sure I have a near infinite number of things I could fix!

It doesn't have to be esoteric, people can also ask questions on how to fix something - even if its simple, like truing a wheel (even those that are "untruable" etc. I'm sure there are some top rung fab guys here who can do some crazy stuff to old school frames to really bring stuff back alive, which would also be rad to see.

Either way, question is are there only two people who care to try and fix things in this thread or is it something we could all get into?

Bueller? Anyone? Bueller?


I care. And I fondly remember the Mechanics Corner sub forum that Vital used to have.

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9/24/2019 6:10 PM

sspomer wrote:

FWIW, there are some cool things going on in a variety of places w/ recycling/repair. boise has the boise bicycle project which has a ton of cool programs - https://www.boisebicycleproject.org/programs/youth/#repair

Both Santa Cruz and San Luis Obispo have Bike Kitchens that offer free help, tools and cheap parts.

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9/24/2019 6:16 PM

I live in the slums of San Luis Obispo (Which happens to be at the beach of all places.) and people really rely on some pretty crap bikes to get around. I've often thought of just setting up my bike stand in the front yard and offering free basic tune ups to the neighbors and passers by.

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9/24/2019 7:02 PM

jeff.brines wrote:

Spomer,

Should I create a different thread dedicated to this? Its just an idea, with no "infrastructure" (lol) but I'd love to hear about people bringing stuff back from the proverbial dead, and maybe we could all learn a thing or three. Like I said, I've never rebuilt pedals, and have tons of them.Hell, when I look around my garage, I'm sure I have a near infinite number of things I could fix!

It doesn't have to be esoteric, people can also ask questions on how to fix something - even if its simple, like truing a wheel (even those that are "untruable" etc. I'm sure there are some top rung fab guys here who can do some crazy stuff to old school frames to really bring stuff back alive, which would also be rad to see.

Either way, question is are there only two people who care to try and fix things in this thread or is it something we could all get into?

Bueller? Anyone? Bueller?


do it. start a new thread

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9/24/2019 7:19 PM

Jeff Brines posts have to date taken up .5 percent of global server space, equating to about 3 million tons of CO2 emissions from the energy needed to run them.

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I'm hungry.

9/24/2019 7:37 PM

TRex wrote:

Jeff Brines posts have to date taken up .5 percent of global server space, equating to about 3 million tons of CO2 emissions from the energy needed to run them.

the more interesting FACT, given that humans are CO2 producing machines (when we talk).... is the offsetting of the emissions through not talking ie forum usage and if that not talking is greater or less than if you ran your mouth off everywhere increasing your emissions... thus more sums needed to work out whether the sum of exhaled emissions is indeed offset by the written word server storing emissions.....

disclaimer: reading aloud whilst typing equals and adds to emissions....thus multiplying ones effect not offsetting.... Men on average talk less per day than females thus able to lower their offset to a lesser extent.

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9/24/2019 9:40 PM

What are you willing to give up? This is the question we need to be asking if we really want change try running your air conditioner a lot less, monitor your water usage much more closely drive less “What Are You Willing To Give Up” nobody that I have spoken with is willing lots of talk but no substance just blah blah blah

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